The entire history of TV is lost with HDTV

[John G]

Tom Del Rosso submitted this idea :

electron206@online.com wrote:
When I was a kid, I remember shutting off the B&W and seeing that
bright white spot in the middle of the screen. As a kid, I thought
that was cool! It was kind of like the whole picture would collapse
into that spot.

It was like watching the Big Crunch, I used to think.

What I really miss is being able to turn the dial fast and instanly change
from channel to channel, so fast that with 0.1 seconds on each channel you
could still see what was on each channel.

It's interesting, A long time ago we had TVs that warmed up then
started then we got standby to get the the picture on quicker, and now
we have gone to digital we have to wait while the software decides
what to do next. :-?

--
John G Sydney.

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

electron206@online.com wrote:

When I was a kid, I remember shutting off the B&W and seeing that
bright white spot in the middle of the screen. As a kid, I thought
that was cool! It was kind of like the whole picture would collapse
into that spot.

It was like watching the Big Crunch, I used to think.

What I really miss is being able to turn the dial fast and instanly change
from channel to channel, so fast that with 0.1 seconds on each channel you
could still see what was on each channel.


--

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

electron206@online.com wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 15:30:46 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

A TV, especially an LED backlight version, could do things with the
LEDs when the video is off. Night light. Lava lamp. Disco strobe.
Depends on the power-off state of the LCD, I guess.

That would be a great add-on where it could be offerred and stull have
the full power OFF. The different "scenes" could operate by multiple
pushing a button on the remote. (like the christmas lights that
different 'chase' modes).
Then they could add that SPOT in the screen too!

It would obviously be popular to have a single button on the remote that
could instantly bring up an asteroids game or similar, to play during
commercials.

I have a friend who invented the FakeTV. A real TV could do that.

FakeTv? What is that? Sounds like something youd give a small child
that only had one or a few built in videos

Of course there's always those fake fireplace DVDs they sell at
Christmas, which just repeat the same scene of a fire, over and over
and over. A novelty which gets boring real fast.

I just looked it up and they sell it on Amazon. It's a burgular deterrent
that simulates the light output of a TV so there's a colored glow in the
room.



--

 

[Phil Allison]

elect...@online.com wrote:

Yea, I do hate the delays on changing channels on digital tvs. I liked
the old click tuners much better, but all they did was change some
capacitors and inductors via a switch, and that was instant! We'll
probably have to live with this delay forever, unless they go back to
the old switch-type tuners, and I doubt that will happen.

** There is an inherent latency in MPEG compression that cause the delay when changing channels.

Only way around it is to have multiple tuners all producing a ready to view image data - so one can switch instantly between them.


..... Phil

 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 00:24:36 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

It was like watching the Big Crunch, I used to think.

What I really miss is being able to turn the dial fast and instanly change
from channel to channel, so fast that with 0.1 seconds on each channel you
could still see what was on each channel.

It's interesting, A long time ago we had TVs that warmed up then started
then we got standby to get the the picture on quicker, and now we have gone
to digital we have to wait while the software decides what to do next. :-?

Remember, the tv sets are now computers, both of mine run Linux. So they
have to boot up first when you turn them on, then acquire a picture from
the station.

Michael

While I agree that modern TVs are computers, where did you get the idea
they use Linux? I have never heard of such a thing. From what I have
seen and heard, the hardware does all the work. While the design may be
computer-like, and use computer chips and other similar parts, the thing
that controls the hardware is PART OF THE HARDWARE. There is no hard
drive, and no software to install.

If there was any software, I'd be happy to know it's not Microsoft
based, because MS would probably make us buy a new tv every 3 years or
less, but at the same time, if it was linux based, no average person
would be able to operate their tv, since only a complete computer nerd,
(who has no life beyond their computer), can install and make Linux
work, and even then their world is not compatible with the rest of the
computer world as for the software and programs.

If you can prove that a TV has Linux (which I doubt), tell me where the
software is installed (on what drive), and what varient of the thousands
if linux types are they using?

Yea, I do hate the delays on changing channels on digital tvs. I liked
the old click tuners much better, but all they did was change some
capacitors and inductors via a switch, and that was instant! We'll
probably have to live with this delay forever, unless they go back to
the old switch-type tuners, and I doubt that will happen.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2015-01-24, electron206@online.com <electron206@online.com> wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 00:24:36 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

It was like watching the Big Crunch, I used to think.

What I really miss is being able to turn the dial fast and instanly change
from channel to channel, so fast that with 0.1 seconds on each channel you
could still see what was on each channel.

It's interesting, A long time ago we had TVs that warmed up then started
then we got standby to get the the picture on quicker, and now we have gone
to digital we have to wait while the software decides what to do next. :-?

Remember, the tv sets are now computers, both of mine run Linux. So they
have to boot up first when you turn them on, then acquire a picture from
the station.

Michael

While I agree that modern TVs are computers, where did you get the idea
they use Linux?

If they use it, it will be in the accompanying documentation. I think
Samsung smart TVs run linux, I have a Panasonic here that runs some
sort of BSD, (oe something else with a BSD licence)

I have never heard of such a thing. From what I have
seen and heard, the hardware does all the work. While the design may be
computer-like, and use computer chips and other similar parts, the thing
that controls the hardware is PART OF THE HARDWARE.

There is no hard drive, and no software to install.

how is that significant?

If you can prove that a TV has Linux (which I doubt), tell me where the
software is installed (on what drive), and what varient of the thousands
if linux types are they using?

linux can run from a NAMD flash chip. from more advanced media like SD
cards....


--
umop apisdn

 

"While I agree that modern TVs are computers, where did you get the idea
they use Linux? "

I have seen TVs with harddrives, but really that was for a TIVO like function, no to runs software off of. I read somewhere that if you have to replace one you format it with Linux.Unix. Not Windows. I have neveer had to change one though so who knows.

If software is in ROM itt is still software. Might callt is firmware I guess but that is still softare. At times you have to "flash" them if a cosmic rray or something hits them at the wrong time.

 

[default]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 21:37:57 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"default" <default@defaulter.net> wrote in message
news:il8qbatg7k1na1a1e5mfm58hvl7ituik52@4ax.com...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:42:16 -0600, electron206@online.com wrote:

When I was a kid, I remember shutting off the B&W and seeing that bright
white spot in the middle of the screen. As a kid, I thought that was
cool! It was kind of like the whole picture would collapse into that
spot.

Knowing what I know about the electronics involved, that spot was the
result of the horizontal and vertical outputs shutting down, while the
CRT was still getting a surge of high voltage from capacitor discharge.

But with modern HDTV sets and no CRT that spot is gone forever. I wish
the tv makers would include the option to enable a spot on the screen
when the set is shut off. I'm sure it could be done, but no one seems
to care. That spot was part of the entire history of TV, and now it's
lost forever. VERY SAD INDEED!

Proves you're getting old...

Remember when telephones had cords on them and rotary dials, or hand
cranked magnetos (they still used them in the country when I was a
kid) and "party lines?" Them were the good old days.

At one school I went to, the phone in the headmasters office had a crank
handle - the phone for students to use was more recently installed - it had
press button A/press button B at various tones after you put the coins in.

I lived in the city but some relatives bought a farm in the country
with magneto phones. The magnetos lost their strength as the magnets
got weaker and you had to really work at getting through to the
operator who would forward your call. The operator was just some
women making some cash on the side and got to you when she was free.
Then when they placed a call you'd hear a number of short and long
rings and you were supposed to listen for your own code. But of
course you could always pick up and listen in to someone else on the
line that did answer their own ring code.

A gossip mongers dream.

 

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 12:05:17 -0800 (PST), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"While I agree that modern TVs are computers, where did you get the idea
they use Linux? "

I have seen TVs with harddrives, but really that was for a TIVO like function,
no to runs software off of. I read somewhere that if you have to replace one
you format it with Linux.Unix. Not Windows. I have neveer had to change one
though so who knows.

If software is in ROM itt is still software. Might callt is firmware I guess
but that is still softare. At times you have to "flash" them if a cosmic rray
or something hits them at the wrong time.

It amazes me that any form of Unix is still used for modern computers.
It's so archaic. It was used for those old mainframe computers which
would fill an entire room, and still have less power than a 386 computer
from the early 1990s.

Yet it seems that we really have not advanced much, if Unix is still the
only OTHER system besides Windows. I'm no big fan of Microsoft, in fact
I'm disgusted with their latest operating systems. I still use XP and
even Win98 on another computer I cant stand anything newer, and Windows
8 is pure crap. I was bound and determined to learn Linux, I tried it
several times and tried quite a few different distros. I never could
get the hang of it. I'd get it installed, and when something did not
work, I'd ask online, on a Linux discussion group, and was always told
to go to the Linux command line. The moment I got there, I was
completely lost, and the people I had asked acted as if I'm either
supposed to know this stuff, or have no right using Linux. I finally
just gave up on Linux entirely and will never go back.

I'll just stick woth XP and keep hoping another OS is soon developed
that is not Windows, and not Unix based. But I'll probably be hoping
for that till I die.

Anyhow, those Unix command line codes seem nearly impossible to learn
unless a person spends their entire life learning and using it. It
really seems so obsolete. I should mention that I started to use
computers when DOS was the OS in use. DOS was easy to learn, adn I
still remember it, and still use some DOS programs. But DOS has a
hundred or so commands, while Unix must have 100,000 or more....

I know none of this will change, at least not soon, but I just find it
hard to believe that Unix is still so much in use. I know Android is
the top seller for smart phones, and that is a form of Unix/Linux. I'd
almost think that computer hardware, as it's built, is made to only
operate on Unix based systems, but Windows proved that wrong. I'd be
perfectly content to just keep using the older versions of Windows, but
MS makes that damn near impossible because they stop supporting the
older versions. Seems they cant get it thru their heads that some of
us, especially us older folks, just dont want their bloated power hungry
newer crap.

But this is where I get confused. If MS could operate a computer on
their simple DOS and later on with earlier versions of Windows, which
were quite easy to manipulate, why does Unix/Linux still use that
impossible to learn command line crap. Why have they not simplified
this after all these years?

 

[Michael Black]

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015, electron206@online.com wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 00:24:36 -0500, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

It was like watching the Big Crunch, I used to think.

What I really miss is being able to turn the dial fast and instanly change
from channel to channel, so fast that with 0.1 seconds on each channel you
could still see what was on each channel.

It's interesting, A long time ago we had TVs that warmed up then started
then we got standby to get the the picture on quicker, and now we have gone
to digital we have to wait while the software decides what to do next. :-?

Remember, the tv sets are now computers, both of mine run Linux. So they
have to boot up first when you turn them on, then acquire a picture from
the station.

Michael

While I agree that modern TVs are computers, where did you get the idea
they use Linux? I have never heard of such a thing. From what I have
seen and heard, the hardware does all the work. While the design may be
computer-like, and use computer chips and other similar parts, the thing
that controls the hardware is PART OF THE HARDWARE. There is no hard
drive, and no software to install.

I iddn't notice the GPL license in the manual of my tv set, but when I
upgraded the firmware, the uncompressed image on the USB flashdrive looked
like Linux, and then I noticed the GPL.

No, it's a real computer running software that interfaces with some
dedicated hardware. It's a stripped down version of Linux with some
software specific to the tv set added, but it's Linux controlling the
system.

Being able to upgrade the firmware means they can fix problems or if some
new standard comes along, they can add that, so long as the existing
hardware can handle the new.

If there was any software, I'd be happy to know it's not Microsoft
based, because MS would probably make us buy a new tv every 3 years or
less, but at the same time, if it was linux based, no average person
would be able to operate their tv, since only a complete computer nerd,
(who has no life beyond their computer), can install and make Linux
work, and even then their world is not compatible with the rest of the
computer world as for the software and programs.

Come on. Linux is used quite a bit in embedded controllers. It's not the
same as running it on a home computer. It's no different from all those
ATMs that run a stripped down version of Windows XP, people were making
jokes about that after Microsoft announced it would no longer support XP.
But the joke there is that the ATMs use a version intended for controller
use, and unlike Joe Average's computer at home, an ATM is a very
controlled situation with very specific hardware and a very small
selection of software. On top of that, once a given ATM is tested, it's
safe, while a computer at home has endless variables that might make it
unsafe.

If you can prove that a TV has Linux (which I doubt), tell me where the
software is installed (on what drive), and what varient of the thousands
if linux types are they using?

Look in a manual, or do a search. Both my HDTV's use Linux. My TomTom
One GPS uses Linux. My Pioneer blu-ray player uses Linux, and I think the
blu-ray player I got at a garage sale uses Linux.

It's cheap, it's proven, the source code is there so it's easy to adapt to
new hardware. It costs a bit more in terms of resources to run it, but
that sort of thing is now cheap. They need a reasonable computer in the
thing to do the work anyway, so running Linux isn't a burden.

It runs in firmware. ANd as for version, they probably jsut take the
pieces that make up a Linux distribution and compile it, which is the
process used to put together any of the distributions. They can leave out
a lot, since this isn't for general purpose computing.

Yea, I do hate the delays on changing channels on digital tvs. I liked
the old click tuners much better, but all they did was change some
capacitors and inductors via a switch, and that was instant! We'll
probably have to live with this delay forever, unless they go back to
the old switch-type tuners, and I doubt that will happen.

The process wasn't slowed down once synthesized tuners came into being.
The sluggishness is because a DTV has to capture enough data (and
decompress it) to put a picture on the screen, which takes a finite time.

The only way to speed things up is better software, and more likely faster
hardware, which will increase the cost. Nobody's going back to the old
days.

Michael

 

[Michael Black]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"While I agree that modern TVs are computers, where did you get the idea
they use Linux? "

I have seen TVs with harddrives, but really that was for a TIVO like
function, no to runs software off of. I read somewhere that if you have
to replace one you format it with Linux.Unix. Not Windows. I have neveer
had to change one though so who knows.

I seem to recall that TIVO, at least in the early days, ran Linux. It
probably was the first consumer device to do so, and set the stage for the
tv sets and the blu-ray players and the GPS units and all that to use
Linux.

Michael

If software is in ROM itt is still software. Might callt is firmware I
guess but that is still softare. At times you have to "flash" them if a
cosmic rray or something hits them at the wrong time.

 

"Seems they cant get it thru their heads that some of
us, especially us older folks, just dont want their bloated power hungry
newer crap. "

Oh they know you don't want it, they just do not care. They care about what they wany. $$$

 

>"I seem to recall that TIVO, at least in the early days, ran Linux."

Not that I've had need to do it yet, I read somewhere that when you replace the HD in a TIVO or similar device, it needs a Linux/Unix file system format. However the software is not on there as far as I can glean, it is in EPROM or something. Also the micro could just have the code on board. I woud say just the program but with alot of the extensions/settings in an external EPROM. Flashing it is like a Windows update, it doesn't change everything..

So how long before virises indfect TVs ya think ? They already got to cellphones.

Anyway, now that I think of Linux, I remember a demo on youtube of Linux MCE. Pop in a DVD and on comes the TV with the correct source selected. Go to the kitchen for a drink and the TV in there pops on playing that source, even the bathroom I presume. It follows your cellphone around. Not sure how it deals with multiple people but I guess it wouyld just follow the signal fro theior cellphone around as wel as long as they were in the room when the DVD started. I found it interesting. A quick search would probably find it.

 

[Ian Field]

<jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:190039ad-c2ed-4c60-bb38-66e3d606802e@googlegroups.com...

"I seem to recall that TIVO, at least in the early days, ran Linux."

Not that I've had need to do it yet, I read somewhere that when you
replace the HD in a TIVO or similar device, it needs a Linux/Unix file
system format. However the software is not on there as far as I can glean,
it is in EPROM or something.

All the Freeview PVRs I've seen so far have had the format util in the ROM
firmware.

Whether you can actually find it in the menu system is another matter.