Tesla Syndrome...

[Flyguy]

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:38:34 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:53:29 -0700, John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
I kept a few classics.
Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.

Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.


The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser\'s.

I\'ve all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.

The D and M searches at least lead one to a manufacturer. I\'ve
discovered manufacturers that I didn\'t know existed, or found that
Littlefuse now makes mosfets.
All Littlefuse literature and data sheets are called media.pdf and
many are corrupt. I\'d complain but I\'d have to fill out a giant form.

\"The easiest thing in the world is not to sell.\"

The search engines for Digi-Key and Mouser have the intelligence level of a 5-year-old; it\'s better than nothing, but not by much. Even the numerical sort gets confused. If the number of products is < 100 it is manageable, but if you are looking thru 1000\'s it breaks down fast. Just try to find an electrolytic cap that is in certain F range AND size range AND termination.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 10:14:06 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:38:34?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:53:29 -0700, John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
I kept a few classics.
Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.

Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.


The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser\'s.

I\'ve all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.

The D and M searches at least lead one to a manufacturer. I\'ve
discovered manufacturers that I didn\'t know existed, or found that
Littlefuse now makes mosfets.
All Littlefuse literature and data sheets are called media.pdf and
many are corrupt. I\'d complain but I\'d have to fill out a giant form.

\"The easiest thing in the world is not to sell.\"

The search engines for Digi-Key and Mouser have the intelligence level of a 5-year-old; it\'s better than nothing, but not by much. Even the numerical sort gets confused. If the number of products is < 100 it is manageable, but if you are looking thru 1000\'s it breaks down fast. Just try to find an electrolytic cap that is in certain F range AND size range AND termination.

You can sort on capacitance and grunt through the rest.

When I specify several parameter ranges in the selection boxes, both
the Digikey and Mouser search tend to mess up. Mouser is worse.

Lately, the \'datasheet\' link takes me to another web site that may or
may not be helpful. I guess it\'s hard to maintain the search engine
for a million parts.

I spend a lot of time looking for parts.

 

[Ricky]

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:23:48 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:32:56 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 05:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48?PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:

Pretty good rant:

https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/


My wife\'s Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
you grab a knob and turn it. You don\'t even have to take your eyes off
the road.

A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there\'s no way I could
safely have adjusted it while driving.

Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.
That would have to be a week-long online training course, with road
test.

My Audi has all incrmental pushbutton controls, little black-on-black
pushbuttons. I\'ve never learned how to set things without looking away
from the road.
That\'s where voice control can make for a big improvement.

\"Car, put fan on high speed.\"

\"Car, defrost windshield.\"

I have that, but I haven\'t completed the training. I mean, I haven\'t memorized the voice controls listed in the manual. I mean, there\'s no fucking info on what you can do by voice and nothing in the manual about it.

I can bump my fan speed up or down, but I can\'t know what setting it\'s on. I still have to punch a tiny button to bring up the climate control screen..

It\'s good that the gas and brake pedals are pretty much standardized.
The transmission and parking brake aren\'t.
The industry settled on the pedal location quite early on. The brake and accelerator locations are close together so the driver uses the same foot to activate them. Meaning you have take foot off accelerator to brake and vice versa.

You must drive a very, very old car. Mine has both in one pedal. I only need to use the brake pedal if it\'s an emergency stop. It\'s actually great, not having to move your foot between pedals. Sometimes, so that I don\'t need to use the brake pedal at a light, I\'ll put the car in cruise control and it stops for me. Then, when the light turns, I take it off and resume driving.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

onsdag den 23. august 2023 kl. 22.13.22 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:23:48 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:32:56 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 05:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 9:03:48?PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22-Aug-23 6:26 am, John Larkin wrote:

Pretty good rant:

https://dnyuz.com/2023/08/21/tesla-syndrome-explains-why-tech-is-making-us-miserable/


My wife\'s Honda Fit is great. If you want to change the hvac settings,
you grab a knob and turn it. You don\'t even have to take your eyes off
the road.

A car I had to hire a few days ago had the A/C control on a touch
screen. Just as well I had a passenger, because there\'s no way I could
safely have adjusted it while driving.

Most people familiarize themselves with the controls on an unfamiliar car BEFORE they drive off.
That would have to be a week-long online training course, with road
test.

My Audi has all incrmental pushbutton controls, little black-on-black
pushbuttons. I\'ve never learned how to set things without looking away
from the road.
That\'s where voice control can make for a big improvement.

\"Car, put fan on high speed.\"

\"Car, defrost windshield.\"
I have that, but I haven\'t completed the training. I mean, I haven\'t memorized the voice controls listed in the manual. I mean, there\'s no fucking info on what you can do by voice and nothing in the manual about it.

I can bump my fan speed up or down, but I can\'t know what setting it\'s on.. I still have to punch a tiny button to bring up the climate control screen.
It\'s good that the gas and brake pedals are pretty much standardized.
The transmission and parking brake aren\'t.
The industry settled on the pedal location quite early on. The brake and accelerator locations are close together so the driver uses the same foot to activate them. Meaning you have take foot off accelerator to brake and vice versa.
You must drive a very, very old car. Mine has both in one pedal. I only need to use the brake pedal if it\'s an emergency stop. It\'s actually great, not having to move your foot between pedals. Sometimes, so that I don\'t need to use the brake pedal at a light, I\'ll put the car in cruise control and it stops for me. Then, when the light turns, I take it off and resume driving.

try noticing how the brake lights work ...

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 23-Aug-23 11:07 pm, Don Y wrote:

If you don\'t like the way the stereo\'s volume adjust based on
travel speed, manually tweek it -- or turn it off.

When I started the engine, the radio was immediately on. It took me ten
minutes to figure out how to silence it.

Sylvia.

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Wednesday, 23 August 2023 at 13:54:47 UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
....

You must drive a very, very old car. Mine has both in one pedal. I only need to use the brake pedal if it\'s an emergency stop. It\'s actually great, not having to move your foot between pedals. Sometimes, so that I don\'t need to use the brake pedal at a light, I\'ll put the car in cruise control and it stops for me. Then, when the light turns, I take it off and resume driving.

try noticing how the brake lights work ...

The brake lights work just fine when using one-pedal driving.

It is a Federal (and similar organizations in other countries) requirement that the brake lights operate whenever the vehicle has retardation of greater than about 0.15g whether by braking (where the normal switch on the brake pedal operates the lights) or where the braking is due to other means such as regeneration.

All EVs are designed to operate this way although Consumer Reports reported that not all cars met the standard.

kw

 

[Flyguy]

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 11:14:33 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 10:14:06 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 8:38:34?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:53:29 -0700, John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 9:36:11?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 04:58:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:33:50?PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31?AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.
In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.
I kept a few classics.
Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago? Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing. Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

Quite a bit of the datasheet archive is outdated, as in really old, stuff. But most of it is still accurate information.

Finding reliable selector guides is the biggest challenge of finding new parts.


The Digikey and Mouser sites are useful multi-vendor search engines,
with pricing too. They could be much better, especially Mouser\'s.

I\'ve all but given up on them. Most of the time they run out of available candidate parts before I finish with the filters. And lots of times the filter options are ridiculous. Manufacturer selector tables are still the best, especially the option to list in descending/ ascending some important parameter of interest.

The D and M searches at least lead one to a manufacturer. I\'ve
discovered manufacturers that I didn\'t know existed, or found that
Littlefuse now makes mosfets.
All Littlefuse literature and data sheets are called media.pdf and
many are corrupt. I\'d complain but I\'d have to fill out a giant form.

\"The easiest thing in the world is not to sell.\"

The search engines for Digi-Key and Mouser have the intelligence level of a 5-year-old; it\'s better than nothing, but not by much. Even the numerical sort gets confused. If the number of products is < 100 it is manageable, but if you are looking thru 1000\'s it breaks down fast. Just try to find an electrolytic cap that is in certain F range AND size range AND termination.
You can sort on capacitance and grunt through the rest.

When I specify several parameter ranges in the selection boxes, both
the Digikey and Mouser search tend to mess up. Mouser is worse.

Lately, the \'datasheet\' link takes me to another web site that may or
may not be helpful. I guess it\'s hard to maintain the search engine
for a million parts.

I spend a lot of time looking for parts.

You can, but why SHOULD YOU? Even the numerical sort has issues...

 

[Don Y]

On 8/23/2023 5:01 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 23-Aug-23 11:07 pm, Don Y wrote:

If you don\'t like the way the stereo\'s volume adjust based on
travel speed, manually tweek it -- or turn it off.


When I started the engine, the radio was immediately on. It took me ten minutes
to figure out how to silence it.

No volume/power button near the controls?

Cars designed for single owners don\'t fare well when shared
(as in a rental/fleet application). The assumption is that
THE owner/operator will be next to use the vehicle and, so,
however it was left is likely how it will want to be seen,
next.

[Imagine sharing a phone with someone]

 

[Don Y]

On 8/23/2023 5:55 PM, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:

try noticing how the brake lights work ...

The brake lights work just fine when using one-pedal driving.

It is a Federal (and similar organizations in other countries) requirement that the brake lights operate whenever the vehicle has retardation of greater than about 0.15g whether by braking (where the normal switch on the brake pedal operates the lights) or where the braking is due to other means such as regeneration.

So, when I downshift, my brake lights come on (as suggested by the fact that
my torso moves uncontrollably forward towards the steering wheel)

That should be easy to test...

All EVs are designed to operate this way although Consumer Reports reported that not all cars met the standard.

kw

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 24-Aug-23 1:12 pm, Don Y wrote:

On 8/23/2023 5:01 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 23-Aug-23 11:07 pm, Don Y wrote:

If you don\'t like the way the stereo\'s volume adjust based on
travel speed, manually tweek it -- or turn it off.


When I started the engine, the radio was immediately on. It took me
ten minutes to figure out how to silence it.

No volume/power button near the controls?

Not that I could find. Indeed, I wasn\'t able to find any radio controls
at all, on the touch screen or otherwise. Eventually I found the volume
controls on the touch screen and just muted it.

Cars designed for single owners don\'t fare well when shared
(as in a rental/fleet application).  The assumption is that
THE owner/operator will be next to use the vehicle and, so,
however it was left is likely how it will want to be seen,
next.

[Imagine sharing a phone with someone]

It expect these things are like the video recorders of old, where most
owners never learn how to use most of the features.

Sylvia.

 

[Don Y]

On 8/23/2023 8:54 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 24-Aug-23 1:12 pm, Don Y wrote:
On 8/23/2023 5:01 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 23-Aug-23 11:07 pm, Don Y wrote:

If you don\'t like the way the stereo\'s volume adjust based on
travel speed, manually tweek it -- or turn it off.


When I started the engine, the radio was immediately on. It took me ten
minutes to figure out how to silence it.

No volume/power button near the controls?

Not that I could find. Indeed, I wasn\'t able to find any radio controls at all,
on the touch screen or otherwise. Eventually I found the volume controls on the
touch screen and just muted it.

SWMBO\'s vehicle has a pushbutton-infinite-rotary-control that acts to
turn the sound system on/off and incrementally adjust volume (from
wherever it was last set for that driver). Until the sound system
is switched on, there is no evidence of it existing. (other than the
slot-loader for CDs)

But, it is the only physical control that *looks* like it would be related
to the sound system.

The steering wheel has dedicated controls that are labeled, as such.
But, you have to be accustomed to using them to remember that they
exist.

Cars designed for single owners don\'t fare well when shared
(as in a rental/fleet application).  The assumption is that
THE owner/operator will be next to use the vehicle and, so,
however it was left is likely how it will want to be seen,
next.

[Imagine sharing a phone with someone]

It expect these things are like the video recorders of old, where most owners
never learn how to use most of the features.

Yes. SWMBO has no idea what most of the controls in her car
do -- and probably doesn\'t even realize there are \"hidden\"
screens full of \"settings\". (I created two 8x11 laminated
double-sided cheat-sheets that are stowed in the driver\'s seat
back to make these settings apparent -- I\'m sure she doesn\'t even
know they are there!)

I\'m that way with cell phones; I just want to *make* a call
(never receive). If I want to do any of those other things, I have
other tools for those needs!

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 24. august 2023 kl. 02.55.29 UTC+2 skrev ke...@kjwdesigns.com:

On Wednesday, 23 August 2023 at 13:54:47 UTC-7, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
...
You must drive a very, very old car. Mine has both in one pedal. I only need to use the brake pedal if it\'s an emergency stop. It\'s actually great, not having to move your foot between pedals. Sometimes, so that I don\'t need to use the brake pedal at a light, I\'ll put the car in cruise control and it stops for me. Then, when the light turns, I take it off and resume driving.

try noticing how the brake lights work ...
The brake lights work just fine when using one-pedal driving.

It is a Federal (and similar organizations in other countries) requirement that the brake lights operate whenever the vehicle has retardation of greater than about 0.15g whether by braking (where the normal switch on the brake pedal operates the lights) or where the braking is due to other means such as regeneration.

All EVs are designed to operate this way although Consumer Reports reported that not all cars met the standard.

https://youtu.be/U0YW7x9U5TQ?si=DjR9jhvouAYGT6j8

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:33:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc....@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.

In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.

I kept a few classics.

Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago?

I\'ve been posting here for more than twenty years, and being rude about legacy circuits does involved being rude about legacy data sheets.

> Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing..

People are still selling parts as conforming to the uA741 specification. and legacy designers are still buying them. Sometimes you have to point out what is missing from those very old specifications.

> Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

One does keep a few classics. I\'ve had high speed internet for a very long time now - I wouldn\'t have started posting here if I hadn\'t had it - and I had it in the Netherlands when I first started posting here, and I\'ve had it since I moved back to Australia. Getting shot of the floor to ceiling book-shelf of data books at work was a definite advantage.

Persuading the authors to provide better data is a different problem.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/big-myth-9781635573572/

does demonstrate how some people do work hard to provide easy access to misleading data, and we do need some kind of mechanism to discourage people from lying to us.

In the US the rich and powerful would resent that.

More libtard NONSENSE!

Actually what the book is all about is the propagation of right wing nonsense, going back to \"The little house on the prairie\" and going on through Ronald Reagan presenting the General Electric Theatre on TV as a shill for GE, which he parlayed into a political career, Gullible twits like you were always the target audience.


--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 4:15:15 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:33:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc....@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.

In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.

I kept a few classics.

Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.
Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago?
I\'ve been posting here for more than twenty years, and being rude about legacy circuits does involved being rude about legacy data sheets.
Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing.
People are still selling parts as conforming to the uA741 specification. and legacy designers are still buying them. Sometimes you have to point out what is missing from those very old specifications.
Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.
One does keep a few classics. I\'ve had high speed internet for a very long time now - I wouldn\'t have started posting here if I hadn\'t had it - and I had it in the Netherlands when I first started posting here, and I\'ve had it since I moved back to Australia. Getting shot of the floor to ceiling book-shelf of data books at work was a definite advantage.
Persuading the authors to provide better data is a different problem.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/big-myth-9781635573572/

does demonstrate how some people do work hard to provide easy access to misleading data, and we do need some kind of mechanism to discourage people from lying to us.

In the US the rich and powerful would resent that.

More libtard NONSENSE!
Actually what the book is all about is the propagation of right wing nonsense, going back to \"The little house on the prairie\" and going on through Ronald Reagan presenting the General Electric Theatre on TV as a shill for GE, which he parlayed into a political career, Gullible twits like you were always the target audience.

I used to have 10 bookcases filled with databooks. That is all gone - they are now on my laptop. Anyone designing with a uA741 is a DYNOSAUR, but that aptly describes you, and you can get that datasheet online if you need to repair some old piece of junk

--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:30:13 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 4:15:15 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:33:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.

In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.

I kept a few classics.

Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.

Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago?
I\'ve been posting here for more than twenty years, and being rude about legacy circuits does involved being rude about legacy data sheets.

Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing.
People are still selling parts as conforming to the uA741 specification.. and legacy designers are still buying them. Sometimes you have to point out what is missing from those very old specifications.
Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

One does keep a few classics. I\'ve had high speed internet for a very long time now - I wouldn\'t have started posting here if I hadn\'t had it - and I had it in the Netherlands when I first started posting here, and I\'ve had it since I moved back to Australia. Getting shot of the floor to ceiling book-shelf of data books at work was a definite advantage.

Persuading the authors to provide better data is a different problem.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/big-myth-9781635573572/

does demonstrate how some people do work hard to provide easy access to misleading data, and we do need some kind of mechanism to discourage people from lying to us.

In the US the rich and powerful would resent that.

More libtard NONSENSE!

Actually what the book is all about is the propagation of right wing nonsense, going back to \"The little house on the prairie\" and going on through Ronald Reagan presenting the General Electric Theatre on TV as a shill for GE, which he parlayed into a political career, Gullible twits like you were always the target audience.

I used to have 10 bookcases filled with databooks. That is all gone - they are now on my laptop. Anyone designing with a uA741 is a DYNOSAUR, but that aptly describes you, and you can get that datasheet online if you need to repair some old piece of junk.

The correct spelling is \"dinosoaur\". I call them \"legacy designers\" because they design with legacy parts. I\'m not one of them - as you\'d know if you knew anything about electronics - and had a famous feud with John Fielding about the Signetics NE555 here for years. I looked at it once, and never thought much of it or designed it into anything. John thought more highly of it.

One of my minor triumphs was designing a 741 - and it\'s pop-corn noise - out of the Metals Research GaAs crystal puller. The redesign included a lot of other good stuff, but that was what got the attention of the operators. Without the pop-corn noise the heaters ran quietly for most of the pull at about 30% of full power. With the 741 they banged full on for about 30 seconds and stayed off for the next 70 seconds, which the operators had found wearing.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 7:06:54 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:30:13 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 4:15:15 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:33:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.

In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.

I kept a few classics.

Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.

Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago?
I\'ve been posting here for more than twenty years, and being rude about legacy circuits does involved being rude about legacy data sheets.

Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing.
People are still selling parts as conforming to the uA741 specification. and legacy designers are still buying them. Sometimes you have to point out what is missing from those very old specifications.
Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

One does keep a few classics. I\'ve had high speed internet for a very long time now - I wouldn\'t have started posting here if I hadn\'t had it - and I had it in the Netherlands when I first started posting here, and I\'ve had it since I moved back to Australia. Getting shot of the floor to ceiling book-shelf of data books at work was a definite advantage.

Persuading the authors to provide better data is a different problem.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/big-myth-9781635573572/

does demonstrate how some people do work hard to provide easy access to misleading data, and we do need some kind of mechanism to discourage people from lying to us.

In the US the rich and powerful would resent that.

More libtard NONSENSE!

Actually what the book is all about is the propagation of right wing nonsense, going back to \"The little house on the prairie\" and going on through Ronald Reagan presenting the General Electric Theatre on TV as a shill for GE, which he parlayed into a political career, Gullible twits like you were always the target audience.

I used to have 10 bookcases filled with databooks. That is all gone - they are now on my laptop. Anyone designing with a uA741 is a DYNOSAUR, but that aptly describes you, and you can get that datasheet online if you need to repair some old piece of junk.

The correct spelling is \"dinosoaur\". I call them \"legacy designers\" because they design with legacy parts. I\'m not one of them - as you\'d know if you knew anything about electronics - and had a famous feud with John Fielding about the Signetics NE555 here for years. I looked at it once, and never thought much of it or designed it into anything. John thought more highly of it.

One of my minor triumphs was designing a 741 - and it\'s pop-corn noise - out of the Metals Research GaAs crystal puller. The redesign included a lot of other good stuff, but that was what got the attention of the operators. Without the pop-corn noise the heaters ran quietly for most of the pull at about 30% of full power. With the 741 they banged full on for about 30 seconds and stayed off for the next 70 seconds, which the operators had found wearing.

--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

LOL! The guy that can\'t even spell his OWN NAME corrects me on spelling!!!! That\'s RICH!!!!!!!!

NOBODY designs with parts that are FIFTY YEARS OLD, you fool! How LONG AGO did you do that, FORTY YEARS?

Bozo\'s Sewage Sweeper

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 10:24:12 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 7:06:54 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:30:13 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 4:15:15 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:33:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.

In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.

I kept a few classics.

Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.

Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago?
I\'ve been posting here for more than twenty years, and being rude about legacy circuits does involved being rude about legacy data sheets.

Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing.
People are still selling parts as conforming to the uA741 specification. and legacy designers are still buying them. Sometimes you have to point out what is missing from those very old specifications.
Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

One does keep a few classics. I\'ve had high speed internet for a very long time now - I wouldn\'t have started posting here if I hadn\'t had it - and I had it in the Netherlands when I first started posting here, and I\'ve had it since I moved back to Australia. Getting shot of the floor to ceiling book-shelf of data books at work was a definite advantage.

Persuading the authors to provide better data is a different problem.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/big-myth-9781635573572/

does demonstrate how some people do work hard to provide easy access to misleading data, and we do need some kind of mechanism to discourage people from lying to us.

In the US the rich and powerful would resent that.

More libtard NONSENSE!

Actually what the book is all about is the propagation of right wing nonsense, going back to \"The little house on the prairie\" and going on through Ronald Reagan presenting the General Electric Theatre on TV as a shill for GE, which he parlayed into a political career, Gullible twits like you were always the target audience.

I used to have 10 bookcases filled with databooks. That is all gone - they are now on my laptop. Anyone designing with a uA741 is a DYNOSAUR, but that aptly describes you, and you can get that datasheet online if you need to repair some old piece of junk.

The correct spelling is \"dinosoaur\". I call them \"legacy designers\" because they design with legacy parts. I\'m not one of them - as you\'d know if you knew anything about electronics - and had a famous feud with John Fielding about the Signetics NE555 here for years. I looked at it once, and never thought much of it or designed it into anything. John thought more highly of it.

One of my minor triumphs was designing a 741 - and it\'s pop-corn noise - out of the Metals Research GaAs crystal puller. The redesign included a lot of other good stuff, but that was what got the attention of the operators. Without the pop-corn noise the heaters ran quietly for most of the pull at about 30% of full power. With the 741 they banged full on for about 30 seconds and stayed off for the next 70 seconds, which the operators had found wearing.

LOL! The guy that can\'t even spell his OWN NAME corrects me on spelling!!!! That\'s RICH!!!!!!!!

Not as rich as the guy that picks on occasional typo\'s trying to avoid getting nailed for spelling dinosaur wrong. Quite how you came to confuse it with a program that was cancelled in 1963 bears thinking about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-20_Dyna-Soar

> NOBODY designs with parts that are FIFTY YEARS OLD, you fool! How LONG AGO did you do that, FORTY YEARS?

I designed out the 741 in 1987 (which is 36 years ago(. The guy that had designed it in ten years earlier had some bad habits - it wouldn\'t have been a good choice even back in 1977.

People actually do design in parts that are fifty years old. It\'s rarely a good idea and I have pointed this out here from time to time. Something like the LM324 is an exception - it was always cheap crap, but if that\'s all you need it is hard to find something cheaper.

That\'s how I described it in the list of 153 op amps I put together around 1989, and it\'s probably still true,
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:00:12 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 10:24:12 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 7:06:54 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:30:13 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 4:15:15 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:33:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:
snip
But has the content improved?

Instant access to data sheets and app notes and parts pricing are great. We used to have a library with hundreds of data books. We filled a dumpster when we moved.

In that case the content stayed pretty much the same, thought I did notice that TI data sheets got longer, and instead of leaving out embarrassing information they buried it on page 45 of a 55 page data sheet.

I kept a few classics.

Reaching out and grabbing the book is faster than pulling the data off the web.

Hey Bozo, when was the last time that you did that, a decade ago?
I\'ve been posting here for more than twenty years, and being rude about legacy circuits does involved being rude about legacy data sheets.

Besides, pulling out an out-of-date databook is worse than having nothing.
People are still selling parts as conforming to the uA741 specification. and legacy designers are still buying them. Sometimes you have to point out what is missing from those very old specifications.
Most of the rest of us have highspeed internet - finding a particular databook in a room of them is FAR SLOWER than just downloading the latest dataSHEET.

One does keep a few classics. I\'ve had high speed internet for a very long time now - I wouldn\'t have started posting here if I hadn\'t had it - and I had it in the Netherlands when I first started posting here, and I\'ve had it since I moved back to Australia. Getting shot of the floor to ceiling book-shelf of data books at work was a definite advantage.

Persuading the authors to provide better data is a different problem.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/au/big-myth-9781635573572/

does demonstrate how some people do work hard to provide easy access to misleading data, and we do need some kind of mechanism to discourage people from lying to us.

In the US the rich and powerful would resent that.

More libtard NONSENSE!

Actually what the book is all about is the propagation of right wing nonsense, going back to \"The little house on the prairie\" and going on through Ronald Reagan presenting the General Electric Theatre on TV as a shill for GE, which he parlayed into a political career, Gullible twits like you were always the target audience.

I used to have 10 bookcases filled with databooks. That is all gone - they are now on my laptop. Anyone designing with a uA741 is a DYNOSAUR, but that aptly describes you, and you can get that datasheet online if you need to repair some old piece of junk.

The correct spelling is \"dinosoaur\". I call them \"legacy designers\" because they design with legacy parts. I\'m not one of them - as you\'d know if you knew anything about electronics - and had a famous feud with John Fielding about the Signetics NE555 here for years. I looked at it once, and never thought much of it or designed it into anything. John thought more highly of it.

One of my minor triumphs was designing a 741 - and it\'s pop-corn noise - out of the Metals Research GaAs crystal puller. The redesign included a lot of other good stuff, but that was what got the attention of the operators. Without the pop-corn noise the heaters ran quietly for most of the pull at about 30% of full power. With the 741 they banged full on for about 30 seconds and stayed off for the next 70 seconds, which the operators had found wearing.

LOL! The guy that can\'t even spell his OWN NAME corrects me on spelling!!!! That\'s RICH!!!!!!!!
Not as rich as the guy that picks on occasional typo\'s trying to avoid getting nailed for spelling dinosaur wrong. Quite how you came to confuse it with a program that was cancelled in 1963 bears thinking about.

Hey Bozo, it is NOT \"occasional\" - it IS persistent. Just another example of rules for THEE but not for ME!! Remember the time that you called me \"STUPD\"? Not your best showing, bloke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-20_Dyna-Soar
NOBODY designs with parts that are FIFTY YEARS OLD, you fool! How LONG AGO did you do that, FORTY YEARS?
I designed out the 741 in 1987 (which is 36 years ago(. The guy that had designed it in ten years earlier had some bad habits - it wouldn\'t have been a good choice even back in 1977.

People actually do design in parts that are fifty years old. It\'s rarely a good idea and I have pointed this out here from time to time. Something like the LM324 is an exception - it was always cheap crap, but if that\'s all you need it is hard to find something cheaper.

\"Rarely a good idea\"? Sort of like NUKING and FIREBOMBING your OWN COUNTRY!!!

That\'s how I described it in the list of 153 op amps I put together around 1989, and it\'s probably still true,
--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

Bozo\'s Sewage Sweeper

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2023 at 2:39:54 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:00:12 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 10:24:12 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 7:06:54 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:30:13 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 4:15:15 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:33:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:

<snip>

NOBODY designs with parts that are FIFTY YEARS OLD, you fool! How LONG AGO did you do that, FORTY YEARS?

I designed out the 741 in 1987 (which is 36 years ago. The guy that had designed it in ten years earlier had some bad habits - it wouldn\'t have been a good choice even back in 1977.

People actually do design in parts that are fifty years old. It\'s rarely a good idea and I have pointed this out here from time to time. Something like the LM324 is an exception - it was always cheap crap, but if that\'s all you need it is hard to find something cheaper.

\"Rarely a good idea\"? Sort of like NUKING and FIREBOMBING your OWN COUNTRY!!!

That\'s your deliberate misunderstanding of a couple of things that I posted.. I have explained quite how thoroughly you do misrepresent them, but you seem unwilling to realise that you got it wrong.

> > That\'s how I described it in the list of 153 op amps I put together around 1989, and it\'s probably still true.

As usual, you have ignored the point I was making and chosen to re-run your usual lie.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Flyguy]

On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 10:46:35 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, August 30, 2023 at 2:39:54 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 7:00:12 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 10:24:12 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 7:06:54 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 11:30:13 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 4:15:15 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:33:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:31 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:17:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 05:12:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Aug 2023 13:26:23 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <5th7eipmc8nacnjbc...@4ax.com>:

snip
NOBODY designs with parts that are FIFTY YEARS OLD, you fool! How LONG AGO did you do that, FORTY YEARS?

I designed out the 741 in 1987 (which is 36 years ago. The guy that had designed it in ten years earlier had some bad habits - it wouldn\'t have been a good choice even back in 1977.

People actually do design in parts that are fifty years old. It\'s rarely a good idea and I have pointed this out here from time to time. Something like the LM324 is an exception - it was always cheap crap, but if that\'s all you need it is hard to find something cheaper.

\"Rarely a good idea\"? Sort of like NUKING and FIREBOMBING your OWN COUNTRY!!!
That\'s your deliberate misunderstanding of a couple of things that I posted. I have explained quite how thoroughly you do misrepresent them, but you seem unwilling to realise that you got it wrong.

I understand TOTALLY what you said, but you don\'t.

That\'s how I described it in the list of 153 op amps I put together around 1989, and it\'s probably still true.

As usual, you have ignored the point I was making and chosen to re-run your usual lie.

Again, you lie about lying - a KNOWN trait of a congenital liar.

--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

Bozo\'s Sewage Sweeper