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A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:47:57â¯AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
They haven\'t been faking anything. They\'ve just set their gear to show an optimistic estimate of how far you could get if you didn\'t driver there all that fast.
That\'s just the free market serving you in a way that makes the product look better than it is. Do you want a government mandated \"truth in range estimate\" regulation? It\'s what you are asking for.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
They haven\'t been faking anything. They\'ve just set their gear to show an optimistic estimate of how far you could get if you didn\'t driver there all that fast.
That\'s just the free market serving you in a way that makes the product look better than it is. Do you want a government mandated \"truth in range estimate\" regulation? It\'s what you are asking for.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Aug 2023 08:00:42 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<vuicdi5u8vfimu5cgkh9mvl0fkih5sfprr@4ax.com>:
This has among other things, my MOSFET heater, driven by filtered PWM from a PIC micro
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/tri_pic/tritium_decay_experiment_black_box_circuit_diagram_IMG_3883.GIF
The feedback is via the temperature sensor using the Vbe change in a BUX86 mounted on the same hotplate as the MOSFET
Worked OK for many years, switched of now.
Tritium decay experiment
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/tri_pic/
control loop is in software.
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<vuicdi5u8vfimu5cgkh9mvl0fkih5sfprr@4ax.com>:
We have a mosfet closed-loop programmable current sink that works fine
most of the time but behaves badly at startup from zero current or at
very low currents. The fix is to drool in a bit of keepalive current
so that the loop never goes open and rails low.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3ql0ew6a2elh562wbsx96/Keepalive.jpg?rlkey=fujknponcgtf31mi3rf072x5e&dl=0
The 400 volt MMBD5004 would be better for high-voltage versions.
This has among other things, my MOSFET heater, driven by filtered PWM from a PIC micro
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/tri_pic/tritium_decay_experiment_black_box_circuit_diagram_IMG_3883.GIF
The feedback is via the temperature sensor using the Vbe change in a BUX86 mounted on the same hotplate as the MOSFET
Worked OK for many years, switched of now.
Tritium decay experiment
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/tri_pic/
control loop is in software.
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 05:40:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
Mosfets make great heaters and transistors make pretty good
temperature sensors.
One of my guys did an experiment yesterday. A drain-tab-up D2PAK
mosfet is being sat upon by a G199 CPU cooler, with grease.
A LabJack controls the gate of the fet to dissipate power. Once in a
while it switches off the drain power supply and back-biases the fet
substrate diode to quickly measure junction temperature.
In this box, the giant optics oven is heated by mosfets.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d8zn6yca7bkun0jkj3riq/Man_Top_1.jpg?rlkey=352n236tashqclwpcn6dd2qf7&dl=0
The temp sensor is a thermistor Wheatstone bridge for high sensitivity
at the target temperature, 30C.
wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Aug 2023 08:00:42 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
vuicdi5u8vfimu5cgkh9mvl0fkih5sfprr@4ax.com>:
We have a mosfet closed-loop programmable current sink that works fine
most of the time but behaves badly at startup from zero current or at
very low currents. The fix is to drool in a bit of keepalive current
so that the loop never goes open and rails low.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3ql0ew6a2elh562wbsx96/Keepalive.jpg?rlkey=fujknponcgtf31mi3rf072x5e&dl=0
The 400 volt MMBD5004 would be better for high-voltage versions.
This has among other things, my MOSFET heater, driven by filtered PWM from a PIC micro
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/tri_pic/tritium_decay_experiment_black_box_circuit_diagram_IMG_3883.GIF
The feedback is via the temperature sensor using the Vbe change in a BUX86 mounted on the same hotplate as the MOSFET
Worked OK for many years, switched of now.
Tritium decay experiment
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/tri_pic/
control loop is in software.
Mosfets make great heaters and transistors make pretty good
temperature sensors.
One of my guys did an experiment yesterday. A drain-tab-up D2PAK
mosfet is being sat upon by a G199 CPU cooler, with grease.
A LabJack controls the gate of the fet to dissipate power. Once in a
while it switches off the drain power supply and back-biases the fet
substrate diode to quickly measure junction temperature.
In this box, the giant optics oven is heated by mosfets.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d8zn6yca7bkun0jkj3riq/Man_Top_1.jpg?rlkey=352n236tashqclwpcn6dd2qf7&dl=0
The temp sensor is a thermistor Wheatstone bridge for high sensitivity
at the target temperature, 30C.
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Sat, 12 Aug 2023 07:39:21 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<cs5fdidecu7mkgtuopp0f8egg2mk8pk8pk@4ax.com>:
I had to look up \'LabJack\'
https://labjack.com/pages/comparison
seems some 24 bit ones are very expensive, 12 bits $260
I\'d use a PIC and maybe a Raspberry Pi, relais?
I never tried that, interesting, will measure some.
Yes, that should work, I have used a simple forward biased diode in big industrial equipment as temperature sensor.
But a LM35 gives you real temperature.
Thermopcouples work OK too.
This uses a LM35 for cold-side measurement:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/th_pic/
here measuring some cold stuff:
panteltje.nl/pub/super_filter/cryocooler/minus_40C_90Vpp_60Hz_img_2617.jpg
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<cs5fdidecu7mkgtuopp0f8egg2mk8pk8pk@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 05:40:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Aug 2023 08:00:42 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
vuicdi5u8vfimu5cgkh9mvl0fkih5sfprr@4ax.com>:
We have a mosfet closed-loop programmable current sink that works fine
most of the time but behaves badly at startup from zero current or at
very low currents. The fix is to drool in a bit of keepalive current
so that the loop never goes open and rails low.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3ql0ew6a2elh562wbsx96/Keepalive.jpg?rlkey=fujknponcgtf31mi3rf072x5e&dl=0
The 400 volt MMBD5004 would be better for high-voltage versions.
This has among other things, my MOSFET heater, driven by filtered PWM from a PIC micro
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/tri_pic/tritium_decay_experiment_black_box_circuit_diagram_IMG_3883.GIF
The feedback is via the temperature sensor using the Vbe change in a BUX86 mounted on the same hotplate as the MOSFET
Worked OK for many years, switched of now.
Tritium decay experiment
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/tri_pic/
control loop is in software.
Mosfets make great heaters and transistors make pretty good
temperature sensors.
One of my guys did an experiment yesterday. A drain-tab-up D2PAK
mosfet is being sat upon by a G199 CPU cooler, with grease.
A LabJack controls the gate of the fet to dissipate power. Once in a
I had to look up \'LabJack\'
https://labjack.com/pages/comparison
seems some 24 bit ones are very expensive, 12 bits $260
I\'d use a PIC and maybe a Raspberry Pi, relais?
while it switches off the drain power supply and back-biases the fet
substrate diode to quickly measure junction temperature.
I never tried that, interesting, will measure some.
In this box, the giant optics oven is heated by mosfets.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d8zn6yca7bkun0jkj3riq/Man_Top_1.jpg?rlkey=352n236tashqclwpcn6dd2qf7&dl=0
The temp sensor is a thermistor Wheatstone bridge for high sensitivity
at the target temperature, 30C.
Yes, that should work, I have used a simple forward biased diode in big industrial equipment as temperature sensor.
But a LM35 gives you real temperature.
Thermopcouples work OK too.
This uses a LM35 for cold-side measurement:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/th_pic/
here measuring some cold stuff:
panteltje.nl/pub/super_filter/cryocooler/minus_40C_90Vpp_60Hz_img_2617.jpg
C
Cursitor Doom
Guest
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
<soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:48:30?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:04:42?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
Why don\'t they just change the scaling of the odometer?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
When the Tesla semi starts getting used, truck drivers won\'t be so
wussy as the car owners. Don\'t mess with truck drivers.
What do you mean by \"wussy\"? Is that actually expecting the performance that the car tells you?
Here is an example of a severely underperforming EV, this time a Ford pickup:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
R
Ricky
Guest
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 1:07:30â¯PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
No automaker gives mileage figures for \"ideal\" conditions. The government has driving conditions defined and everyone uses the same conditions. It has been this way for ICE for decades and is no different for BEVs.
It\'s rather funny that anyone things an automaker is \"switching\" back to ICE. Everyone is converting to BEVs as fast as they can ramp up. It\'s just that some automakers don\'t make cars that are as good as other brands, regardless of the hype.
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:48:30?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:04:42?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
Why don\'t they just change the scaling of the odometer?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
When the Tesla semi starts getting used, truck drivers won\'t be so
wussy as the car owners. Don\'t mess with truck drivers.
What do you mean by \"wussy\"? Is that actually expecting the performance that the car tells you?
Here is an example of a severely underperforming EV, this time a Ford pickup:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
No automaker gives mileage figures for \"ideal\" conditions. The government has driving conditions defined and everyone uses the same conditions. It has been this way for ICE for decades and is no different for BEVs.
It\'s rather funny that anyone things an automaker is \"switching\" back to ICE. Everyone is converting to BEVs as fast as they can ramp up. It\'s just that some automakers don\'t make cars that are as good as other brands, regardless of the hype.
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
J
John Walliker
Guest
On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 21:45:47 UTC+1, Ricky wrote:
Its more complicated than it might seem.. For example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66172158
John
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 1:07:30â¯PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:48:30?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:04:42?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
Why don\'t they just change the scaling of the odometer?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
When the Tesla semi starts getting used, truck drivers won\'t be so
wussy as the car owners. Don\'t mess with truck drivers.
What do you mean by \"wussy\"? Is that actually expecting the performance that the car tells you?
Here is an example of a severely underperforming EV, this time a Ford pickup:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
No automaker gives mileage figures for \"ideal\" conditions. The government has driving conditions defined and everyone uses the same conditions. It has been this way for ICE for decades and is no different for BEVs.
It\'s rather funny that anyone things an automaker is \"switching\" back to ICE. Everyone is converting to BEVs as fast as they can ramp up. It\'s just that some automakers don\'t make cars that are as good as other brands, regardless of the hype.
Its more complicated than it might seem.. For example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66172158
John
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
L
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Guest
søndag den 13. august 2023 kl. 22.45.47 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
yep, they why they all have silly mileage figures like \"up to 213.7 miles\"
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 1:07:30â¯PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:48:30?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:04:42?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
Why don\'t they just change the scaling of the odometer?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
When the Tesla semi starts getting used, truck drivers won\'t be so
wussy as the car owners. Don\'t mess with truck drivers.
What do you mean by \"wussy\"? Is that actually expecting the performance that the car tells you?
Here is an example of a severely underperforming EV, this time a Ford pickup:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
No automaker gives mileage figures for \"ideal\" conditions. The government has driving conditions defined and everyone uses the same conditions. It has been this way for ICE for decades and is no different for BEVs.
yep, they why they all have silly mileage figures like \"up to 213.7 miles\"
R
Ricky
Guest
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:54:35â¯PM UTC-4, John Walliker wrote:
Most people actually say something and provide a link to help. Did you have anything to say?
--
Rick C.
+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 21:45:47 UTC+1, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 1:07:30â¯PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:48:30?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:04:42?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
Why don\'t they just change the scaling of the odometer?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
When the Tesla semi starts getting used, truck drivers won\'t be so
wussy as the car owners. Don\'t mess with truck drivers.
What do you mean by \"wussy\"? Is that actually expecting the performance that the car tells you?
Here is an example of a severely underperforming EV, this time a Ford pickup:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
No automaker gives mileage figures for \"ideal\" conditions. The government has driving conditions defined and everyone uses the same conditions. It has been this way for ICE for decades and is no different for BEVs.
It\'s rather funny that anyone things an automaker is \"switching\" back to ICE. Everyone is converting to BEVs as fast as they can ramp up. It\'s just that some automakers don\'t make cars that are as good as other brands, regardless of the hype.
Its more complicated than it might seem.. For example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66172158
Most people actually say something and provide a link to help. Did you have anything to say?
--
Rick C.
+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
R
Ricky
Guest
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:54:59â¯PM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
I have not seen that. Can you give an example that is not a marketing claim?
--
Rick C.
-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
søndag den 13. august 2023 kl. 22.45.47 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 1:07:30â¯PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:48:30?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:04:42?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
Why don\'t they just change the scaling of the odometer?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
When the Tesla semi starts getting used, truck drivers won\'t be so
wussy as the car owners. Don\'t mess with truck drivers.
What do you mean by \"wussy\"? Is that actually expecting the performance that the car tells you?
Here is an example of a severely underperforming EV, this time a Ford pickup:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
No automaker gives mileage figures for \"ideal\" conditions. The government has driving conditions defined and everyone uses the same conditions. It has been this way for ICE for decades and is no different for BEVs.
yep, they why they all have silly mileage figures like \"up to 213.7 miles\"
I have not seen that. Can you give an example that is not a marketing claim?
--
Rick C.
-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
C
chrisq
Guest
On 8/13/23 20:54, John Walliker wrote:
Yes, they have obviously done their sums and worked out that the EV
revolution will take decades, despite all the hype, so are hedging
their bets on ICE being around for a long time yet.
The media are at last starting to wake up to the fact that the net
zero thing isn\'t going to happen any time soon. Why ?: Because it\'s
targets are not deliverable. The ex CEO of UK National Grid in
the press, DT, from memory, saying that the required infrastructure,
generation, network, substations and individual properties will all
need a major upgrade, costing anything up to a trillion and taking
20-30 years to get in place.
Just need the government now, to wake up from their mass psychosis
and we might actually make some progress.
As for EV\'s, great idea, but call me when they are just as effective
and match price with similar ICE models. Still in first generation,
unfortunately. when all the mistakes are made to fund the next
generation...
Chris
On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 21:45:47 UTC+1, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 1:07:30â¯PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:48:30?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:04:42?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
Why don\'t they just change the scaling of the odometer?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
When the Tesla semi starts getting used, truck drivers won\'t be so
wussy as the car owners. Don\'t mess with truck drivers.
What do you mean by \"wussy\"? Is that actually expecting the performance that the car tells you?
Here is an example of a severely underperforming EV, this time a Ford pickup:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
No automaker gives mileage figures for \"ideal\" conditions. The government has driving conditions defined and everyone uses the same conditions. It has been this way for ICE for decades and is no different for BEVs.
It\'s rather funny that anyone things an automaker is \"switching\" back to ICE. Everyone is converting to BEVs as fast as they can ramp up. It\'s just that some automakers don\'t make cars that are as good as other brands, regardless of the hype.
Its more complicated than it might seem.. For example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66172158
John
Yes, they have obviously done their sums and worked out that the EV
revolution will take decades, despite all the hype, so are hedging
their bets on ICE being around for a long time yet.
The media are at last starting to wake up to the fact that the net
zero thing isn\'t going to happen any time soon. Why ?: Because it\'s
targets are not deliverable. The ex CEO of UK National Grid in
the press, DT, from memory, saying that the required infrastructure,
generation, network, substations and individual properties will all
need a major upgrade, costing anything up to a trillion and taking
20-30 years to get in place.
Just need the government now, to wake up from their mass psychosis
and we might actually make some progress.
As for EV\'s, great idea, but call me when they are just as effective
and match price with similar ICE models. Still in first generation,
unfortunately. when all the mistakes are made to fund the next
generation...
Chris
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
C
chrisq
Guest
On 8/12/23 05:13, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
Should at least give expected range under various climate conditions.
Be honest about the fact that range suffers in winter conditions,
exacerbated further by the need for internal heating.
Many complaints at present and growing awareness of the limitations
of the current models. It will take a revolution in battery
tech to really make it work, just for starters...
Chris
On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:47:57â¯AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
They haven\'t been faking anything. They\'ve just set their gear to show an optimistic estimate of how far you could get if you didn\'t driver there all that fast.
That\'s just the free market serving you in a way that makes the product look better than it is. Do you want a government mandated \"truth in range estimate\" regulation? It\'s what you are asking for.
Should at least give expected range under various climate conditions.
Be honest about the fact that range suffers in winter conditions,
exacerbated further by the need for internal heating.
Many complaints at present and growing awareness of the limitations
of the current models. It will take a revolution in battery
tech to really make it work, just for starters...
Chris
E
Eddy Lee
Guest
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 3:51:19â¯PM UTC-7, chrisq wrote:
We are know the actual mileage is a great deal less than marketed mileage. Battery capacity in KWhr is a better indicator. Just multiple it by around 3.
On 8/12/23 05:13, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:47:57â¯AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
They haven\'t been faking anything. They\'ve just set their gear to show an optimistic estimate of how far you could get if you didn\'t driver there all that fast.
That\'s just the free market serving you in a way that makes the product look better than it is. Do you want a government mandated \"truth in range estimate\" regulation? It\'s what you are asking for.
Should at least give expected range under various climate conditions.
Be honest about the fact that range suffers in winter conditions,
exacerbated further by the need for internal heating.
We are know the actual mileage is a great deal less than marketed mileage. Battery capacity in KWhr is a better indicator. Just multiple it by around 3.
D
Don Y
Guest
On 8/13/2023 3:51 PM, chrisq wrote:
At best, hybrids will fill the need. BEVs will likely fall out of grace
as a potential solution as their TCOs will remain high -- esp wrt hybrids.
A better solution is to convince people to drive smaller vehicles
and.or scale the vehicles to the most common \"single occupant\"
scenario. It\'s embarassing to need ~4000 pounds of conveyance to
get around when, in the limiting case, my two feet (0 pounds)
can do the same -- if the places I visited were nearer (a 2 mile
radius is about all that\'s practical, on foot)
Conveyances for single occupants are either some form of motorcycle/scooter
(hardly appropriate for large segments of the population and almost always
uncomfortable with the rider exposed to the elements, even if they *could*
transport parcels beyond theirselves.).
Should at least give expected range under various climate conditions.
Be honest about the fact that range suffers in winter conditions,
exacerbated further by the need for internal heating.
Many complaints at present and growing awareness of the limitations
of the current models. It will take a revolution in battery
tech to really make it work, just for starters...
At best, hybrids will fill the need. BEVs will likely fall out of grace
as a potential solution as their TCOs will remain high -- esp wrt hybrids.
A better solution is to convince people to drive smaller vehicles
and.or scale the vehicles to the most common \"single occupant\"
scenario. It\'s embarassing to need ~4000 pounds of conveyance to
get around when, in the limiting case, my two feet (0 pounds)
can do the same -- if the places I visited were nearer (a 2 mile
radius is about all that\'s practical, on foot)
Conveyances for single occupants are either some form of motorcycle/scooter
(hardly appropriate for large segments of the population and almost always
uncomfortable with the rider exposed to the elements, even if they *could*
transport parcels beyond theirselves.).
D
Don Y
Guest
On 8/13/2023 4:02 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
And I guess it\'s too hard for the vendor to do that?
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 3:51:19â¯PM UTC-7, chrisq wrote:
Should at least give expected range under various climate conditions.
Be honest about the fact that range suffers in winter conditions,
exacerbated further by the need for internal heating.
We are know the actual mileage is a great deal less than marketed mileage. Battery capacity in KWhr is a better indicator. Just multiple it by around 3.
And I guess it\'s too hard for the vendor to do that?
F
Flyguy
Guest
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 10:13:34â¯PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
Hey Bozo, \"optimism\" is just another word for \"FAKED\", otherwise WHY did they switch back to a realistic estimate at half full?
Sure, why not have \"optimistic\" estimates of the strength of wood and steel - that would sure cut construction costs! The conversation changes, however, when Tesla actively CANCELS service appointments with customers concerning range issues. This IS FRAUD!
On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:47:57â¯AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
They haven\'t been faking anything. They\'ve just set their gear to show an optimistic estimate of how far you could get if you didn\'t driver there all that fast.
Hey Bozo, \"optimism\" is just another word for \"FAKED\", otherwise WHY did they switch back to a realistic estimate at half full?
That\'s just the free market serving you in a way that makes the product look better than it is. Do you want a government mandated \"truth in range estimate\" regulation? It\'s what you are asking for.
Sure, why not have \"optimistic\" estimates of the strength of wood and steel - that would sure cut construction costs! The conversation changes, however, when Tesla actively CANCELS service appointments with customers concerning range issues. This IS FRAUD!
--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
F
Flyguy
Guest
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:02:08â¯PM UTC-7, Eddy Lee wrote:
I suggest you take a poll and ask the general public what a KWHr is, even spell it out: kilowatt hour, and see how many people can answer (correctly). I expect it to be in the neighborhood of 1 in 10 to, more likely, 1 in 100.. People, other other hand, understand \"miles.\"
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 3:51:19â¯PM UTC-7, chrisq wrote:
On 8/12/23 05:13, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:47:57â¯AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
They haven\'t been faking anything. They\'ve just set their gear to show an optimistic estimate of how far you could get if you didn\'t driver there all that fast.
That\'s just the free market serving you in a way that makes the product look better than it is. Do you want a government mandated \"truth in range estimate\" regulation? It\'s what you are asking for.
Should at least give expected range under various climate conditions.
Be honest about the fact that range suffers in winter conditions,
exacerbated further by the need for internal heating.
We are know the actual mileage is a great deal less than marketed mileage.. Battery capacity in KWhr is a better indicator. Just multiple it by around 3.
I suggest you take a poll and ask the general public what a KWHr is, even spell it out: kilowatt hour, and see how many people can answer (correctly). I expect it to be in the neighborhood of 1 in 10 to, more likely, 1 in 100.. People, other other hand, understand \"miles.\"
C
chrisq
Guest
On 8/13/23 23:53, Flyguy wrote:
Right, and additionally, usable KWh depends on driving style, since a
lower power results in lower resistive and other losses in the battery
and thus, less wasted power than foot to the metal style.
ICE tech has had 100+ years of development and is a very tough act to
beat, or even equal...
Chris
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 4:02:08â¯PM UTC-7, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 3:51:19â¯PM UTC-7, chrisq wrote:
On 8/12/23 05:13, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:47:57â¯AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
They haven\'t been faking anything. They\'ve just set their gear to show an optimistic estimate of how far you could get if you didn\'t driver there all that fast.
That\'s just the free market serving you in a way that makes the product look better than it is. Do you want a government mandated \"truth in range estimate\" regulation? It\'s what you are asking for.
Should at least give expected range under various climate conditions.
Be honest about the fact that range suffers in winter conditions,
exacerbated further by the need for internal heating.
We are know the actual mileage is a great deal less than marketed mileage. Battery capacity in KWhr is a better indicator. Just multiple it by around 3.
I suggest you take a poll and ask the general public what a KWHr is, even spell it out: kilowatt hour, and see how many people can answer (correctly). I expect it to be in the neighborhood of 1 in 10 to, more likely, 1 in 100. People, other other hand, understand \"miles.\"
Right, and additionally, usable KWh depends on driving style, since a
lower power results in lower resistive and other losses in the battery
and thus, less wasted power than foot to the metal style.
ICE tech has had 100+ years of development and is a very tough act to
beat, or even equal...
Chris
R
Ricky
Guest
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 6:40:46â¯PM UTC-4, chrisq wrote:
That is probably true for the UK. But, in countries with first world infrastructure, it will require relatively little investment in the grid. Mostly it will just be the addition of 30A, 240V charge points, which can already be accommodated in the vast majority of homes.
I get that you don\'t know much about the topic, because you clearly, have never looked at it from a realistic perspective. Once you stop promoting all the hype, and look at the issues realistically, you will see BEVs are immensely practical and a significant advancement over ICE vehicles.
--
Rick C.
-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On 8/13/23 20:54, John Walliker wrote:
On Sunday, 13 August 2023 at 21:45:47 UTC+1, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 1:07:30â¯PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:48:30?PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:04:42?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 13:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/08/08/lawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints/?utm_email=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&lctg=75F424DF74BD75C39415D4E91D&active=no&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.mercurynews.com%2f2023%2f08%2f08%2flawsuit-tesla-faked-driving-range-for-cars-created-special-unit-to-squelch-complaints%2f&utm_campaign=bang-mult-nl-wednesday-morning-report-nl&utm_content=manual
Why don\'t they just change the scaling of the odometer?
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
When the Tesla semi starts getting used, truck drivers won\'t be so
wussy as the car owners. Don\'t mess with truck drivers.
What do you mean by \"wussy\"? Is that actually expecting the performance that the car tells you?
Here is an example of a severely underperforming EV, this time a Ford pickup:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
AFAIAA, all these manufacturers quote figures for ideal conditions.
Consequently, if you go up a hill, you\'ll get less mileage. There are
many other examples. As electronic designers, no one here should be
unfamiliar with the \'ideal\' concept.
As an aside, someone told me the other day that BMW are falling out of
love with EVs due to lack of infrastructure and concerns over battery
recycling and are switching production back to ICE cars.
No automaker gives mileage figures for \"ideal\" conditions. The government has driving conditions defined and everyone uses the same conditions. It has been this way for ICE for decades and is no different for BEVs.
It\'s rather funny that anyone things an automaker is \"switching\" back to ICE. Everyone is converting to BEVs as fast as they can ramp up. It\'s just that some automakers don\'t make cars that are as good as other brands, regardless of the hype.
Its more complicated than it might seem.. For example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66172158
John
Yes, they have obviously done their sums and worked out that the EV
revolution will take decades, despite all the hype, so are hedging
their bets on ICE being around for a long time yet.
The media are at last starting to wake up to the fact that the net
zero thing isn\'t going to happen any time soon. Why ?: Because it\'s
targets are not deliverable. The ex CEO of UK National Grid in
the press, DT, from memory, saying that the required infrastructure,
generation, network, substations and individual properties will all
need a major upgrade, costing anything up to a trillion and taking
20-30 years to get in place.
That is probably true for the UK. But, in countries with first world infrastructure, it will require relatively little investment in the grid. Mostly it will just be the addition of 30A, 240V charge points, which can already be accommodated in the vast majority of homes.
I get that you don\'t know much about the topic, because you clearly, have never looked at it from a realistic perspective. Once you stop promoting all the hype, and look at the issues realistically, you will see BEVs are immensely practical and a significant advancement over ICE vehicles.
--
Rick C.
-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209