Tech Magazines going electronic.

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Dirk Bruere wrote:

Why is everyone in the industry so fixated on using PDFs?



1: Because it was the first cross platform format, and is so widely
used that people rarely have to install software to read a file.

2: Some IT departments will not allow you to install other software,
but Acrobat reader is commonly installed on networked computers.

3: Most people are familiar with PDF so they don't have to answer a
bunch of stupid questions, over and over.

HTML

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[Robert]

"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3pla55Fb33irU1@individual.net...

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Dirk Bruere wrote:

Why is everyone in the industry so fixated on using PDFs?



1: Because it was the first cross platform format, and is so widely
used that people rarely have to install software to read a file.

2: Some IT departments will not allow you to install other software,
but Acrobat reader is commonly installed on networked computers.

3: Most people are familiar with PDF so they don't have to answer a
bunch of stupid questions, over and over.

HTML

--
Dirk

I don't like the tricks you can do in HTML with external references. And

perhaps other things.

I don't want that "flexibility" in a document I view. And I don't want to
keep dropping down to the source to find out what clever dicks are doing.

Robert

 

[John Perry]

Robert wrote:

...

I don't like the tricks you can do in HTML with external references. And
perhaps other things.

I don't want that "flexibility" in a document I view. And I don't want to
keep dropping down to the source to find out what clever dicks are doing.

But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions,
now. And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.

John Perry

 

[Mark Zenier]

In article <3pl6cdFaofllU1@individual.net>,
Dirk Bruere at Neopax <dirk.bruere@gmail.com> wrote:

Why is everyone in the industry so fixated on using PDFs?

To them it's just another form of paper. They're media/graphic arts/
print geeks and they want their beautiful layouts fixed so nobody
can screw with them. (And the reader is stuck reading the ads, too).

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Dirk Bruere wrote:

HTML

A very poor choice, unless you have the exact browser software type
and revision it was written for. How many people want to keep every
version of every browser at hand when you only need a couple revs of
PDF?

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Perry wrote:

But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions,
now. And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.

John Perry

Any decent firewall will stop it from "calling home".
--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Dirk Bruere wrote:

HTML



A very poor choice, unless you have the exact browser software type
and revision it was written for. How many people want to keep every
version of every browser at hand when you only need a couple revs of
PDF?

Couple of revs eh?
Use standard, well defined, HTML.
Strangely, I manage to write HTML that runs on all known browsers. But then,
it's not loaded with Flash, movies or sound. Just pics and text.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[Pooh Bear]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Dirk Bruere wrote:

HTML

A very poor choice, unless you have the exact browser software type
and revision it was written for. How many people want to keep every
version of every browser at hand when you only need a couple revs of
PDF?

A couple of revs of PDF ?

Yeah it's gone downhill ! Adobe should be shot.

Graham

 

[Pooh Bear]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

John Perry wrote:


But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions,
now. And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.

John Perry

Any decent firewall will stop it from "calling home".

Oh wow !

Wtf does it need to do that for anyway ? Just more dumb cutesy features.

Graham

 

[Kman]

Agree,

And the number, quality and diversity in topics have declined dramatically
over the years in magazines such as Machine Design and Design News. Long
time ago, the magazine Editors concentrated more on useful design content,
new technologies (detailed) than on advertisements. I started saving
interesting and informative magazine articles back in the late 70's and
onward. It is very obvious to those of us who have been around awhile that
the majority of these magazines have transformed into nothing more than
advertisement journals. I don't know how others use these magazines, but I
barely notice the advertisements and go straight to articles of interest if
you can find one.

Kman


"FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
news:Z_udnbl2pOEEWK_eRVn-jw@magma.ca...

This just plain sucks.
Most of the trade magazines are dropping the
printed version for PDF files. I'm sorry but to
bring my PC to the can for reading is impractical.
Advertisers stop this nonsense. I will simply
stop reading them. I spend enough time in front
of a monitor. In this case technology sucks

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote (in
<4336F08E.150300@hotmail.com&gt about 'Tech Magazines going electronic.',
on Sun, 25 Sep 2005:

Wtf does it need to do that for anyway ? Just more dumb cutesy
features.


Acrobat 6 calls home, too, for updates. Updating doesn't seem to work

all that well, but on balance I'd rather have the updates than the
security holes or the crashes.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[TOP]

I have a hypothesis about this decline in content. Last week I came
into possesion of a large stack of engineering papers from the 60's.
Within the stack were a number of engineering reports written by a then
well known engineering consultancy. They worked out a very complex
problem on paper in a very few pages using geometry and calculus. This
was a 3D problem that would be very difficult to solve in FEA. I rather
doubt that many Machine Design or Design News readers would even want
to tackle one of these reports. Yet this was how things were done and
many engineers and designers in the 60's would have little trouble
understanding them. 3D graphics and user friendly FEA have isolated
practitioners from needing to understand how they are getting the
answers they are getting. Magazine writers cater to this new crowd of
engineering wanabes with articles on features and user interfaces
rather than looking at the meatier issues of CAD, FEA or engineering in
general.

I ran across a prime example the other day in a question posted on
Eng-Tips. Somebody wanted to know how their canned FEA package really
knew a cylinder was going to buckle. Good question, but should this guy
really be using the software to design things till he understands the
answer? Red is bad and blue is good, right?

The long and short is that the engineering rags have to be careful not
to overwhelm their readers with technical content just like the CAD and
FEA software vendors are careful to isolate their users from the
reality of what they are doing. We are all becoming like soccer moms
driving 3 ton SUVs while completely oblivious to the implications of
controlling such a large vehicle and smug in the assurance that
whatever they do with it they will survive unhurt.


Kman wrote:

Agree,

And the number, quality and diversity in topics have declined dramatically
over the years in magazines such as Machine Design and Design News. Long
time ago, the magazine Editors concentrated more on useful design content,
new technologies (detailed) than on advertisements. I started saving
interesting and informative magazine articles back in the late 70's and
onward. It is very obvious to those of us who have been around awhile that
the majority of these magazines have transformed into nothing more than
advertisement journals. I don't know how others use these magazines, but I
barely notice the advertisements and go straight to articles of interest if
you can find one.

Kman


"FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
news:Z_udnbl2pOEEWK_eRVn-jw@magma.ca...
This just plain sucks.
Most of the trade magazines are dropping the
printed version for PDF files. I'm sorry but to
bring my PC to the can for reading is impractical.
Advertisers stop this nonsense. I will simply
stop reading them. I spend enough time in front
of a monitor. In this case technology sucks

 

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.electronics.design Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Dirk Bruere wrote:

HTML


A very poor choice, unless you have the exact browser software type
and revision it was written for. How many people want to keep every
version of every browser at hand when you only need a couple revs of

Well, the solution to that is simple.
Burn at the stake anyone who designs for only a couple of browsers,
rather than using simple standards compliant HTML.

 

[Robert]

"John Perry" <jp@no.spam> wrote in message
news5lZe.6427$GK2.4250@lakeread07...

Robert wrote:
...

I don't like the tricks you can do in HTML with external references. And
perhaps other things.

I don't want that "flexibility" in a document I view. And I don't want to
keep dropping down to the source to find out what clever dicks are doing.


But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions, now.
And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.

John Perry

I agree. But I like being able to hold one source accountable for such
behavior instead of anyone that's doing the HTML. I can (mostly) believe all
I'm going to get in PDFs is URL's and calling home to Adobe. Either of which
I can block by closing my firewall when I read the Doc. I'm more suspicious
of general HTML tricks. And the people who can create them.

Robert

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Ian Stirling wrote:

Well, the solution to that is simple.
Burn at the stake anyone who designs for only a couple of browsers,
rather than using simple standards compliant HTML.

The HTML "Standards" keep creeping, so you have to keep modifying the
HTML page to keep them current.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Dirk Bruere wrote:

Couple of revs eh?
Use standard, well defined, HTML.
Strangely, I manage to write HTML that runs on all known browsers. But then,
it's not loaded with Flash, movies or sound. Just pics and text.

That's fine, if you are only going to look at your own work.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Jerry Steiger]

"Kman" <kengineering@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:bxCZe.4029$QE1.841@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...

I don't know how others use these
magazines, but I barely notice the advertisements and go straight to
articles of interest if you can find one.

That's interesting, Ken. We re polar opposites. I barely notice the articles
in many of my engineering magazines and focus on the ads!

On the other hand, I really do enjoy a good article. When I can find one,
that is.

Jerry Steiger
Tripod Data Systems
"take the garbage out, dear"

 

[John Perry]

Robert wrote:

"John Perry" <jp@no.spam> wrote in message
news5lZe.6427$GK2.4250@lakeread07...


But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions, now.
And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.


I agree. But I like being able to hold one source accountable for such
behavior instead of anyone that's doing the HTML. I can (mostly) believe all
I'm going to get in PDFs is URL's and calling home to Adobe. Either of which
I can block by closing my firewall when I read the Doc. I'm more suspicious
of general HTML tricks. And the people who can create them.

Uh, no, Robert, Acrobat Reader calls home to the author of the page.
And as I said, any modern browser allows you to defeat html (actually,
javascript) call-home. But Adobe doesn't give the user that option.
With Reader you _have_ to use low-level tricks discovered by
sophisticated users, or a firewall (which, I emphasize, is a Good Idea).
Much worse than html.

John Perry

 

[Robert]

"John Perry" <jp@no.spam> wrote in message
news:CVYZe.6622$GK2.1236@lakeread07...

Robert wrote:
"John Perry" <jp@no.spam> wrote in message
news5lZe.6427$GK2.4250@lakeread07...


But, Robert, Acrobat reader has had hyperlinks for several versions, now.
And with the hot new 7.0, it'll even call home without asking your
permission, or even telling you it's doing it!. At least with a modern
browser (not, of course, M$ style), you can prohibit html doing that.


I agree. But I like being able to hold one source accountable for such
behavior instead of anyone that's doing the HTML. I can (mostly) believe
all I'm going to get in PDFs is URL's and calling home to Adobe. Either
of which I can block by closing my firewall when I read the Doc. I'm more
suspicious of general HTML tricks. And the people who can create them.

Uh, no, Robert, Acrobat Reader calls home to the author of the page. And
as I said, any modern browser allows you to defeat html (actually,
javascript) call-home. But Adobe doesn't give the user that option. With
Reader you _have_ to use low-level tricks discovered by sophisticated
users, or a firewall (which, I emphasize, is a Good Idea). Much worse than
html.

John Perry

Are you talking about embedding URLs in the PDF document to call home to the
Author? Or that Adobe gives that capability to the author of a page? If so I
didn't know about the latter. Either way I can shut my firewall while
reading documents I don't trust. I worry about other capabilities of HTML.
It seems like part of the way towards a programming language and I don't
know how much of the way it really is.

Robert

 

[Kman]

"TOP" <kellnerp@cbd.net> wrote in message
news:1127676349.718985.49910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I have a hypothesis about this decline in content. Last week I came
into possesion of a large stack of engineering papers from the 60's.
Within the stack were a number of engineering reports written by a then
well known engineering consultancy. They worked out a very complex
problem on paper in a very few pages using geometry and calculus. This
was a 3D problem that would be very difficult to solve in FEA. I rather
doubt that many Machine Design or Design News readers would even want
to tackle one of these reports.

I wouldn't understand some of these in depth reports myself. But it is
always interesting and challenging to study such articles to understand out
how the other half sees the world. I miss some of the more practical
articles on subjects like how to determine friction force of
pneumatic-hydraulic seals, sizing servo drives, sizing electric motors for
variable power demands, coupler torsional stiffness verses servo resolution,
best practices for applying fasteners in different design applications,
sizing clutches and brakes, sizing cooling systems for electrical cabinets,
sizing pneumatic systems to achieve desired response time of actuators,
sizing and principles of designing with U-Joints, payback and net present
value, how to determine and derive the correct geometry for locating pins,
etc....

All of this information can be found in some obscure engineering reference
or manufacturer's engineering information section. However, the trade
magazines always brought these interesting topics to the reader on a regular
basis. Of course, engineers also used to have more time to kick back and
learn about these topics on the companies dime. Also, pretty much gone

Yet this was how things were done and

many engineers and designers in the 60's would have little trouble
understanding them. 3D graphics and user friendly FEA have isolated
practitioners from needing to understand how they are getting the
answers they are getting. Magazine writers cater to this new crowd of
engineering wanabes with articles on features and user interfaces
rather than looking at the meatier issues of CAD, FEA or engineering in
general.

The underlying principles and mathematics necessary to derive the solutions
are buried in user friendly software and overly simplified for the masses.

However, I do like spell check ;&gt

Someone in our organization was recently broadcasting how they could
instantly save the company barrels of money by replacing all the company
desktop systems with laptops. He authoritively pronounced the return on
investment would be less than one year based upon energy savings alone.
When asked if he took into account corporate tax rate, depreciation value,
salvage value, he looked puzzled and asked how this information was
relevant. Going back to your hypothesis, simple is dangerous or even fatal
in the hands of wannabes who don't understand the underlying principles.

I ran across a prime example the other day in a question posted on
Eng-Tips. Somebody wanted to know how their canned FEA package really
knew a cylinder was going to buckle. Good question, but should this guy
really be using the software to design things till he understands the
answer? Red is bad and blue is good, right?

All shades of blue means not to worry, right

The long and short is that the engineering rags have to be careful not
to overwhelm their readers with technical content just like the CAD and
FEA software vendors are careful to isolate their users from the
reality of what they are doing. We are all becoming like soccer moms
driving 3 ton SUVs while completely oblivious to the implications of
controlling such a large vehicle and smug in the assurance that
whatever they do with it they will survive unhurt.

Sometimes it seems like too many companies prefer soccer mom's driving SUV's

Kman

Kman wrote:
Agree,

And the number, quality and diversity in topics have declined
dramatically
over the years in magazines such as Machine Design and Design News. Long
time ago, the magazine Editors concentrated more on useful design
content,
new technologies (detailed) than on advertisements. I started saving
interesting and informative magazine articles back in the late 70's and
onward. It is very obvious to those of us who have been around awhile
that
the majority of these magazines have transformed into nothing more than
advertisement journals. I don't know how others use these magazines, but
I
barely notice the advertisements and go straight to articles of interest
if
you can find one.

Kman


"FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
news:Z_udnbl2pOEEWK_eRVn-jw@magma.ca...
This just plain sucks.
Most of the trade magazines are dropping the
printed version for PDF files. I'm sorry but to
bring my PC to the can for reading is impractical.
Advertisers stop this nonsense. I will simply
stop reading them. I spend enough time in front
of a monitor. In this case technology sucks