Switchercad Vs Newbie - Switchercad wins!

[Mike Engelhardt]

John,

Paul Burridge <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vrbmlvs7n1nnb13f6ur466upv5akdvr3pu@4ax.com...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:31:11 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
kevin@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

The main feature of SWCAD is that it is free, but usable. Most other
spices are just about impossible to probe signals. Some don't even have
a simple list box of signals to enable/disable a specific plot post
simulation. Some, have a bloody "waveform graph window always on top
that hides the schematic underneath" sort of thing, making schematic
probing just about impossible.

So we agree on one thing then, Kev. LTSpice is the best simulator
there is. :-

Although I use SW and SS, I don't think Mike E should get away with
it this easily .

SwitcherCad is free and it's fast, with good convergence but myself
feel the user interface is many years out of date. ('legacy' Spice
stuff ... like having to stick a 'dot' command here and a 'dot'
command there,

LTspice is designed to never impede an expert. Many people have
been writing 'dot' commands for SPICE since the 70's, so LTspice
uses the format so there's nothing new to learn for the established
users. IC designers often remark an appreciation that the 'dot'
commands can simply be put on the schematic, instead of having to
learn how some proprietary dialog editor/GUI works. But the dialog-
based editors are there for people who forget the syntax. A
guiding principle in the design of LTspice was to introduce as
few standards as possible. It allows you to freely mix and match
graphical input with text directives. Using graphical standards
where they exist and text standards where those exist.

awkward component selection and deletion, graph colour control,

LTspice has terrific color control of every aspect of the program.
Trace-by-trace with color drop lists(right click on the trace
label). Also see Tools=>Color Preferences for setting up the color
palette. Some don't like the component selection deletion,
because it's different that used for word processors, but it was
designed to allow more to be done with less mouse/click syntax
and still be designed to give a natural feel for cross-probing
as if scoping out a board or micro/e-beam probing an IC.

confusing "help" info, model editing, graphs that insist on 'Db's'
and 'phase' defaults, etc)

The plots don't insist on dB's and phase if you save the plot
settings to the default name.

--Mike

 

[John Jardine]

Mike Engelhardt <pmte@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:bjgr14$r78@dispatch.concentric.net...

John,

Paul Burridge <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vrbmlvs7n1nnb13f6ur466upv5akdvr3pu@4ax.com...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:31:11 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
kevin@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

[clip]

awkward component selection and deletion, graph colour control,

LTspice has terrific color control of every aspect of the program.
Trace-by-trace with color drop lists(right click on the trace
label). Also see Tools=>Color Preferences for setting up the color
palette. Some don't like the component selection deletion,
because it's different that used for word processors, but it was
designed to allow more to be done with less mouse/click syntax
and still be designed to give a natural feel for cross-probing
as if scoping out a board or micro/e-beam probing an IC.

confusing "help" info, model editing, graphs that insist on 'Db's'
and 'phase' defaults, etc)

The plots don't insist on dB's and phase if you save the plot
settings to the default name.

--Mike

The SWcad circuit probing method has many good points, but ...
I've just rechecked this a couple of minutes ago. If I'm voltage probing
around a few test points, the graphs come up on demand with whatever colours
have been previously set, easy, no problem.
Probe a current and get it's graph, again no problem. Then try probing a
previous voltage point and suddenly find the colour pallette has 'slipped'.
The graph data is correct but the colour I'd mentally attached to say the
output voltage, is now say, the colour that I'd mentally filed as being a
collector load and my concentration is broken. Worse than that ... After a
double click the colour pallete will reset to 'correct' which breaks the
thinking thread for a second time. A trivial programming detail but
annoying^2 . (No ... I never look at the node numbers and only rarely
assign text to a node)

The CAD and drawing prog's I've come across generally use the standard mouse
'arrow' pointer to highlight, select, delete, move etc. This is definitely
easier than the SW arrangement. Surely the cursor action conflict during
probing could be removed by allowing no circuit editing whilst a graph is
somewhere on screen.
(while I'm at it ... Those bits of confetti like chopped wires that lurk on
screen after a deletion, could do with some kind of automatic garbage
clear-up
regards
john

 

[Mike Engelhardt]

John,

The SWcad circuit probing method has many good points, but ...
I've just rechecked this a couple of minutes ago. If I'm voltage
probing around a few test points, the graphs come up on demand
with whatever colours have been previously set, easy, no problem.

Yes, it does learn the colors of traces.

Probe a current and get it's graph, again no problem. Then try
probing a previous voltage point and suddenly find the colour
pallette has 'slipped'.

Oh. It's trying to pick colors earlier in the palette that aren't
in the current plot. There's an assumption that the palette has
more distinct colors earlier in the palette. Then, when redrawing
older traces, it picks a color that isn't already drawn on the screen.
I tried both methods and preferred the one it uses. Can't please
every one. BTW, there's the ability to change the colors of an
existing trace with the right button click on the trace.

The CAD and drawing prog's I've come across generally use the
standard mouse 'arrow' pointer to highlight, select, delete,
move etc. This is definitely easier than the SW arrangement.

Yes, it is common. It came from word processors. There you want
to select a region and edit it many times for color, size, font,
formatting, etc. I didn't use it for schematic editing because
there you can save mouse clicks if you pick a mode like move or
drag, and then move and drag many different things/selected regions,
not just one selected region.

--Mike

 

[John Jardine]

Ken Smith <kensmith@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message
news:bjl5a0$rsk$1@blue.rahul.net...

In article <bjienm$k6j$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
John Jardine <john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
[....]
[clip]

if I want someone to remove something from the table I would say

"Remove that thing" and point at the object in question. In windows you
have to say "That thing, remove".

--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

I had to think about that and like the point . Being a windows detester

I'm embarrassed as to how they've managed to insidiously pollute my
thinking.
regards
john

 

[Thurston Phoremost]

kensmith@violet.rahul.net (Ken Smith) wrote in message news:<bjl5a0$rsk$1@blue.rahul.net>...

In article <bjienm$k6j$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
John Jardine <john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
[....]
The CAD and drawing prog's I've come across generally use the standard mouse
'arrow' pointer to highlight, select, delete, move etc. This is definitely
easier than the SW arrangement. Surely the cursor action conflict during
probing could be removed by allowing no circuit editing whilst a graph is
somewhere on screen.

I really-really-really hate this idea. I don't want to have to close the
graph screen to be able to edit the circuit. The way that SW cad does
editing is easy enough to use that even I can figure it out. The typical
windows way of doing things has often struck me as very un-natural. I
English, if I want someone to remove something from the table I would say
"Remove that thing" and point at the object in question. In windows you
have to say "That thing, remove".

Nevertheless, in the real (physical) world, you have to first grab
that thing before you can remove it.


T.