Suggestions for dusk to dawn lighting

[John-Del]

A few years ago I changed all the exterior light fixtures around my house to motion/light cell type fixtures, and they worked well for several years. Last year they became a bit numb. I replaced the photocells that had water damage, resealed them and they worked another year, but are crapping out again or are killing bulbs in two weeks (guessing they're running at low voltage?).

Reviews on these fixtures are hit or miss at best (more misses than hits) and I don't want to go through the expense of changing 10 fixtures in exchange for questionable service life or erratic performance.

So what I'd like to do is hard wire the fixtures and replace the 4 wall switches that control the 10 outdoor fixtures to an automated type and have a single light sensor control them at one shot. I don't need the motion aspect; I'd rather have them come on at dusk and stay on till morning.

I used to use X10s and had pretty good luck with them, but that was many years ago. Does anyone know of a reliable system or pieces I can put together that will get me what I want?

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

A few things:

a) From a purely practical view, all outside lights do is give burglars light to see by. They give zero/nil/no/none additional security or safety.
b) They contribute to light pollution.
c) They burn power needlessly.

If *you* are looking for outside lights to see by, put them on a switch. If you want lights that allow you to leave the house and then go off, put them on a timer switch. Some are sophisticated enough that you can set a 'come-back' time so it will also light your way in.

But, to get directly to your question, Intermatic makes any number of astronomical time clocks with daily, weekly or monthly (the latter is actually 365/366 capable) that you set your dawn, dusk and date and it does the rest automagically. No need for a light sensor to add complexity.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[amdx]

On 11/18/2017 6:47 AM, John-Del wrote:

A few years ago I changed all the exterior light fixtures around my house to motion/light cell type fixtures, and they worked well for several years. Last year they became a bit numb. I replaced the photocells that had water damage, resealed them and they worked another year, but are crapping out again or are killing bulbs in two weeks (guessing they're running at low voltage?).

Reviews on these fixtures are hit or miss at best (more misses than hits) and I don't want to go through the expense of changing 10 fixtures in exchange for questionable service life or erratic performance.

So what I'd like to do is hard wire the fixtures and replace the 4 wall switches that control the 10 outdoor fixtures to an automated type and have a single light sensor control them at one shot. I don't need the motion aspect; I'd rather have them come on at dusk and stay on till morning.

I used to use X10s and had pretty good luck with them, but that was many years ago. Does anyone know of a reliable system or pieces I can put together that will get me what I want?

I don't know, but two days ago I found the source of a bad Buzz on my
radio, it is an outdoor light with IR sensor AND slow turn on to extend
bulb life.
So I'm either on a search to quiet what I have or buy lights that
don't produce RFI.
Mikek

 

On Saturday, 18 November 2017 13:42:06 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

A few things:

a) From a purely practical view, all outside lights do is give burglars light to see by. They give zero/nil/no/none additional security or safety.
b) They contribute to light pollution.
c) They burn power needlessly.

If *you* are looking for outside lights to see by, put them on a switch. If you want lights that allow you to leave the house and then go off, put them on a timer switch. Some are sophisticated enough that you can set a 'come-back' time so it will also light your way in.

But, to get directly to your question, Intermatic makes any number of astronomical time clocks with daily, weekly or monthly (the latter is actually 365/366 capable) that you set your dawn, dusk and date and it does the rest automagically. No need for a light sensor to add complexity.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

The simplest option is plug-in timers.

And outdoor lighting enables burglars to be seen.


NT

 

[N_Cook]

On 18/11/2017 12:47, John-Del wrote:

A few years ago I changed all the exterior light fixtures around my house to motion/light cell type fixtures, and they worked well for several years. Last year they became a bit numb. I replaced the photocells that had water damage, resealed them and they worked another year, but are crapping out again or are killing bulbs in two weeks (guessing they're running at low voltage?).

Reviews on these fixtures are hit or miss at best (more misses than hits) and I don't want to go through the expense of changing 10 fixtures in exchange for questionable service life or erratic performance.

So what I'd like to do is hard wire the fixtures and replace the 4 wall switches that control the 10 outdoor fixtures to an automated type and have a single light sensor control them at one shot. I don't need the motion aspect; I'd rather have them come on at dusk and stay on till morning.

I used to use X10s and had pretty good luck with them, but that was many years ago. Does anyone know of a reliable system or pieces I can put together that will get me what I want?

If its the security aspect of lighting, rather than likes of going going
to an outside bog in the middle of the night, these things are excellent
http://www.redlinesecurity.co.uk/simulated-tv
next to no power used, just direct the very convincing (mixture of
random and quasi-static) dancing/flickering/colour-changing light output
towards , but not at, a curtained window.
In a real lifetime-burglar test , it came out tops of deterrance kit.

 

On Saturday, 18 November 2017 14:17:14 UTC, N_Cook wrote:

If its the security aspect of lighting, rather than likes of going going
to an outside bog in the middle of the night, these things are excellent
http://www.redlinesecurity.co.uk/simulated-tv
next to no power used, just direct the very convincing (mixture of
random and quasi-static) dancing/flickering/colour-changing light output
towards , but not at, a curtained window.
In a real lifetime-burglar test , it came out tops of deterrance kit.

ÂŁ18:35. Real TV: free.

 

[Bill Gill]

On 11/18/2017 6:47 AM, John-Del wrote:

A few years ago I changed all the exterior light fixtures around my house to motion/light cell type fixtures, and they worked well for several years. Last year they became a bit numb. I replaced the photocells that had water damage, resealed them and they worked another year, but are crapping out again or are killing bulbs in two weeks (guessing they're running at low voltage?).

Reviews on these fixtures are hit or miss at best (more misses than hits) and I don't want to go through the expense of changing 10 fixtures in exchange for questionable service life or erratic performance.

So what I'd like to do is hard wire the fixtures and replace the 4 wall switches that control the 10 outdoor fixtures to an automated type and have a single light sensor control them at one shot. I don't need the motion aspect; I'd rather have them come on at dusk and stay on till morning.

I used to use X10s and had pretty good luck with them, but that was many years ago. Does anyone know of a reliable system or pieces I can put together that will get me what I want?

A number of years ago I saw something about security lighting.
In that article the author said that motion detection lighting is
better security. The idea is that if the light is on all the time
a burglar can see where the shadows are and stick to them. If
the light doesn't come on until it senses the burglars movement
they get caught in the light when it comes on.

Bill

 

[N_Cook]

On 18/11/2017 14:26, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, 18 November 2017 14:17:14 UTC, N_Cook wrote:

If its the security aspect of lighting, rather than likes of going going
to an outside bog in the middle of the night, these things are excellent
http://www.redlinesecurity.co.uk/simulated-tv
next to no power used, just direct the very convincing (mixture of
random and quasi-static) dancing/flickering/colour-changing light output
towards , but not at, a curtained window.
In a real lifetime-burglar test , it came out tops of deterrance kit.

ÂŁ18:35. Real TV: free.

We don't get free lecky,about 10hour x 365 days x 0.12 KW otherwise just
for 1 year. These LED gizmos something like 0.005 KW consumption.
I suppose these days much less likelihood of a TV catching fire , that
seems to be the province of fridges and freezers these days.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 8:56:43 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

And outdoor lighting enables burglars to be seen.

Do you have light(s) in your back yard? Burglars seldom go in the front door.

Yep. Those few burglars that still operate at night around here tend to wear bright uniforms with reflective stripes and drive panel vans with magnetic signs of one sort of emergency response group or another.

The best deterrent of all is a nosy neighbor - and our neighborhood is full of those. Next best is a loud dog. Similarly, including two of our own.

 

hide quoted text -
On 18/11/2017 12:47, John-Del wrote:

A few years ago I changed all the exterior light fixtures around my house to motion/light cell type fixtures, and they worked well for several years.. Last year they became a bit numb. I replaced the photocells that had water damage, resealed them and they worked another year, but are crapping out again or are killing bulbs in two weeks (guessing they're running at low voltage?).

Reviews on these fixtures are hit or miss at best (more misses than hits) and I don't want to go through the expense of changing 10 fixtures in exchange for questionable service life or erratic performance.

So what I'd like to do is hard wire the fixtures and replace the 4 wall switches that control the 10 outdoor fixtures to an automated type and have a single light sensor control them at one shot. I don't need the motion aspect; I'd rather have them come on at dusk and stay on till morning.

I used to use X10s and had pretty good luck with them, but that was many years ago. Does anyone know of a reliable system or pieces I can put together that will get me what I want?

Google this: 'solar outdoor lighting'

Don't install yourself because you could nullify your property's insurance. Get an approved installer to install the lighting for you.

 

[Foxs Mercantile]

On 11/18/2017 6:47 AM, John-Del wrote:

So what I'd like to do is hard wire the fixtures
and replace the 4 wall switches that control the 10
outdoor fixtures to an automated type and have a
single light sensor control them at one shot.

Use one of these to control a 120 VAC relay with
contacts heavy enough to handle your entire lighting
load.

<https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/3334/ELEC-K4121C.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0b_QBRCeARIsAFntQ9qPrGVVT9TidkNMuzr-ZQQBmzU7KFt1eIdLSzl8XnwHg3Fsa6Am2m8aAnk_EALw_wcB>



--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

 

On Saturday, 18 November 2017 15:56:24 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 8:56:43 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:


And outdoor lighting enables burglars to be seen.

Do you have light(s) in your back yard?

yes

> Burglars seldom go in the front door.

they've tried all the doors & some windows here. None seem keen to return though.

Yep. Those few burglars that still operate at night around here tend to wear bright uniforms with reflective stripes and drive panel vans with magnetic signs of one sort of emergency response group or another.

The best deterrent of all is a nosy neighbor - and our neighborhood is full of those. Next best is a loud dog. Similarly, including two of our own.

there are various deterrents.


NT

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per John-Del:
>Does anyone know of a reliable system or pieces

I used to have 250w floods arranged to illuminate the entire perimeter
of the house and controlled by x10 - with as "Panic Switch" x10 remote
in the bedroom that turned them all on at once.

But the x10's did not age well, my paranoia subsided, and now we have
nothing security-wise.

For my backyard critter cams, I have been using 500w
motion-triggered halogen lights like this:
http://tinyurl.com/y92fxcfz

They *really* light things up - giving daylight color and motion
conditions to the cams.

If I were doing my home, I would put one of those (or maybe one of the
next grade up (http://tinyurl.com/y92fxcfz) at each potential entry
point.

I have no expert knowledge, but intuitively it seems to me like
motion-detected with *lots* of light would be superior because:

- They let you know something is up by the intense amount of
light suddenly shed outside

- It has to be unsettling to a prowler to be spotlighted while
the inside of the house is dark (giving advantage to the person
inside).

The weak point I have found in motion sensing is the sensors: sometimes
they get weird in cold weather and trigger spontaneously.
--
Pete Cresswell

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Our neighbor has motion sensors. Start with the premise that we are in the immediate ring-suburb to Philadelphia - I sometimes walk the dogs and cross over the border.

We have: Deer, wild turkeys, great-blue heron in the summer, raccoons, foxes, and more. Each and every one of which will trip a motion sensor, as the animals are fearless and they are more-or-less guided right by them.

And, as stated, cold weather does weird them out such that windy nights have them on as often as off.

Anything large enough to be of concern will get the dogs going even before any lights go on. People, other dogs, and deer - that is it. Timers if you must light up the world. Please.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

On Saturday, 18 November 2017 22:45:21 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

Our neighbor has motion sensors. Start with the premise that we are in the immediate ring-suburb to Philadelphia - I sometimes walk the dogs and cross over the border.

We have: Deer, wild turkeys, great-blue heron in the summer, raccoons, foxes, and more. Each and every one of which will trip a motion sensor, as the animals are fearless and they are more-or-less guided right by them.

And, as stated, cold weather does weird them out such that windy nights have them on as often as off.

Anything large enough to be of concern will get the dogs going even before any lights go on. People, other dogs, and deer - that is it. Timers if you must light up the world. Please.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

PIRs certainly aren't perfect, and many just aren't set right in practice, but they're a lot better than leaving the light on all night long.


NT

 

pf...@aol.com wrote:

Our neighbor has motion sensors. Start with the premise that we are in the immediate ring-suburb to Philadelphia - I sometimes walk the dogs and cross over the border.

We have: Deer, wild turkeys, great-blue heron in the summer, raccoons, foxes, and more. Each and every one of which will trip a motion sensor, as the animals are fearless and they are more-or-less guided right by them.

And, as stated, cold weather does weird them out such that windy nights have them on as often as off.

Anything large enough to be of concern will get the dogs going even before any lights go on. People, other dogs, and deer - that is it.

I remember seeing stats saying that night-time prowlers usually know the victims already. Explain that!

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

A successful burglar is not stupid. Most house robberies are committed during daylight hours when the residents are at work or school. Most are well-scoped. Have you had poll-takers, surveyors, solicitors for charity and various causes come to your door? Our township requires a license and picture-tag on a lanyard for such activities for that reason. Not that many comply.

Night-time burglaries tend to be equally well scoped. Such as porch-light on 24/7, or inside lights that stay on all night. Whatever is not what you do routinely will be spotted by a pro - and that is a signal for them. And, even timed lights that do not vary are a signal.

At the same time, a pro *will not* take on a challenge. They will move on to the next victim. It is similar to running from a bear. I do not have to outrun the bear, just the person with me. I do not have to have an impregnable house with super locks. Just be a bit more difficult than the guy next door.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

On Sunday, 19 November 2017 12:29:52 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

> A successful burglar is not stupid.

then what are they doing burgling?

Most house robberies are committed during daylight hours when the residents are at work or school. Most are well-scoped. Have you had poll-takers, surveyors, solicitors for charity and various causes come to your door? Our township requires a license and picture-tag on a lanyard for such activities for that reason. Not that many comply.

Night-time burglaries tend to be equally well scoped. Such as porch-light on 24/7, or inside lights that stay on all night. Whatever is not what you do routinely will be spotted by a pro - and that is a signal for them. And, even timed lights that do not vary are a signal.

At the same time, a pro *will not* take on a challenge. They will move on to the next victim. It is similar to running from a bear. I do not have to outrun the bear, just the person with me. I do not have to have an impregnable house with super locks. Just be a bit more difficult than the guy next door.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Burglars come in all types. Any attempt to defend against just one type has a habit of defending against just one type.


NT

 

[John-Del]

On Sunday, November 19, 2017 at 11:22:39 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 19 November 2017 12:29:52 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

A successful burglar is not stupid.

then what are they doing burgling?

Most house robberies are committed during daylight hours when the residents are at work or school. Most are well-scoped. Have you had poll-takers, surveyors, solicitors for charity and various causes come to your door? Our township requires a license and picture-tag on a lanyard for such activities for that reason. Not that many comply.

Night-time burglaries tend to be equally well scoped. Such as porch-light on 24/7, or inside lights that stay on all night. Whatever is not what you do routinely will be spotted by a pro - and that is a signal for them. And, even timed lights that do not vary are a signal.

At the same time, a pro *will not* take on a challenge. They will move on to the next victim. It is similar to running from a bear. I do not have to outrun the bear, just the person with me. I do not have to have an impregnable house with super locks. Just be a bit more difficult than the guy next door.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Burglars come in all types. Any attempt to defend against just one type has a habit of defending against just one type.


NT

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm going to read back through it after Thanksgiving and see what I can try.

FWIW, this is not a security issue. We have a full perimeter security system installed in our home. My wife and I are both licensed carriers and anyone in our home that doesn't follow instructions to stop and drop *will* be dropped anyway.

Motion detectors have always been dodgy at best, and while I would prefer to have the lights come on when anyone approaches them for convenience reasons I'll settle for dusk till dawn lighting.

We live on a dead end in a quiet suburb and there are no street lights. On a moonless or overcast night, it's freaking dark and hard to see whether in the driveway, my front porch, or my back deck.

I was happy with the motion detecting light fixtures we had (although several were bad out of the box as I recall), they don't last long enough to justify their existence. They also are finicky about both LED and CCFL lamps.

I was thinking about just replacing the switches that control these fixtures with something like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Mytouchsmart-In-Wall-Timer-26893/206787190

With these, I can have the front porch and back deck lights go off after say midnight and leave the driveway lights on till morning. They are also compatible with CFL and LED lights, something most sensing detectors are not. The last step would be to gut the electronics out of the fixtures I have (which are aluminum and otherwise in excellent shape) and hard wire them through.

 

On Sunday, 11/19/17 at 11:22AM, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 19 November 2017 12:29:52 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

A successful burglar is not stupid.

then what are they doing burgling?

They're stupid at everything else but burglarizing?