Suggestions for dusk to dawn lighting

[Andy Burns]

bruce2bowser@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 11/19/17 at 11:22AM, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 19 November 2017 12:29:52 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

A successful burglar is not stupid.

then what are they doing burgling?

They're stupid at everything else but burglarizing?

I'm waiting for burglarizating to become a thing.

 

On Monday, 20 November 2017 08:17:57 UTC, bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 11/19/17 at 11:22AM, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 19 November 2017 12:29:52 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

A successful burglar is not stupid.

then what are they doing burgling?

They're stupid at everything else but burglarizing?

then it's a sure bet they're stupid at burgling too


NT

 

On Monday, 20 November 2017 08:22:06 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:

bruce2bowser@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 11/19/17 at 11:22AM, tabby wrote:
On Sunday, 19 November 2017 12:29:52 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

A successful burglar is not stupid.

then what are they doing burgling?

They're stupid at everything else but burglarizing?

I'm waiting for burglarizating to become a thing.

NT

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Y'all can't be that dense.

They burgle as a business just like any other, with perhaps a bit of extra risk - which they work hard at minimizing. In the United State, the 'solve' rate is 9.3%, In England, about the same, with London being just 6%.

Making them pretty good at their business, and those not so good make up those crimes that are solved. And better than most small businesses, only half of which survive more than five years.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[John-Del]

On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 8:07:06 AM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:

Y'all can't be that dense.

They burgle as a business just like any other, with perhaps a bit of extra risk - which they work hard at minimizing. In the United State, the 'solve' rate is 9.3%, In England, about the same, with London being just 6%.

Making them pretty good at their business, and those not so good make up those crimes that are solved. And better than most small businesses, only half of which survive more than five years.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Yeah, but if the burgle success rate is 9% (any given single event), and one must burgle on a regular basis just to equal what any typical schmo makes at Micky D's (although I concede the hours are shorted), then the career burglar is likely to be caught sooner rather than later, no matter how skilled at burgling he is.

Actually, I don't really care about burglars or statistics, I just love any thread that I can use the verb burgle...

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Valid quibbles. However, the reality is that only about 1/3 of burglaries are reported. And the 'solves' tend to be in groups.

So, if a professional burgles one house per week (likely far less than that in reality), and the overall success rate is 91%, 0.91 x 300 = 5.25 years before he will get caught - purely based on statistics. Somewhat longer in London. 40% of burglaries are committed by "friends", family or acquaintances.

Point is that the average burglar is a pro, does extensive research ahead of the act, and is absolutely not looking for trouble. They don't walk into a neighborhood, pick a house at random and have-at. They will not be surprised by lights, bells, whistles, or much of anything else. They will be in and out of a house in less than 3 minutes, on average. They will emulate something that puts the average indifferent neighbor at ease - such as a reflective jumpsuit and clipboard. There was a robbery on the Main Line some time ago, where the team of burglars came in broad daylight, and while one group started to power-wash the house, the other group went inside and pretty much cleaned it out. They even put a "Power Washing Professionals" sign up at the curb. Another, two jumpsuited individuals went into the house with bright orange barrels with HazMat markings - and took out the goods inside the barrels. Neither teams were caught - except on cameras. No faces. Go figure.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[John-Del]

On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 10:08:30 AM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:
> Valid quibbles. However, the reality is that only about 1/3 of burglaries are reported.

Citation? Seems hard to believe...


> Point is that the average burglar is a pro, does extensive research ahead of the act, and is absolutely not looking for trouble. They don't walk into a neighborhood, pick a house at random and have-at.

You must have a more high class burglar where you are Peter. Most of the ones around here are pot heads looking for a quick score.

There was a robbery on the Main Line some time ago, where the team of burglars came in broad daylight, and while one group started to power-wash the house, the other group went inside and pretty much cleaned it out.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Yeah, we get those too, but most home burglaries are nowhere near as sophisticated. To help your point, I'll venture that the average catch rate is far lower for the pro if you factor in the pot and crack heads who not only break down doors, but even do so when home owners are actually home and get caught in higher numbers.

Can I say "burgle" one more time??

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 1:56:50 PM UTC-5, John-Del wrote:

> Citation? Seems hard to believe...

Sorry, it varies by region, and I pulled my region and mis-applied it.

Nationally, about 41% are unreported.

> You must have a more high class burglar where you are Peter. Most of the ones around here are pot heads looking for a quick score.

We had a rash of burglaries near our summer house, and 'they' got our house.. Turned out to be the estranged nephew of our neighbor, who was stupid enough to leave mail addressed to him behind, and leave the swag - such as it was - at his aunt's house next door. We was caught, and in the process tried to run from the State Police. Not a good idea. And, he was on meth. Through him they found two meth-labs (relatively) nearby.

http://wnep.com/2014/02/19/puppies-rescued-from-meth-lab-in-columbia-county/

Can I say "burgle" one more time??

Very likely.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

pf...@aol.com wrote:

Y'all can't be that dense.

They burgle as a business just like any other, with perhaps a bit
of extra risk - which they work hard at minimizing. In the United
State, the 'solve' rate is 9.3%, In England, about the same, with London
being just 6%.

But 'solve' meaning what? A super-quick judge, jury and sentencing? As opposed to investigators already having determined who's involved, when, where, but prosecutorsstaying mum and not yet bringing the case to court because of threats or interference by powerful well-connected leaders in business or government. Like with the big diamond heist at Zaventum airport in Brussels, it could be for whatever reason (like using street-level suspects to identify other ones, like major crime kingpins, larger crime rings involving corrupt or even foreign officials). This may go on for years before eventual 'solving' occurs).

They talked about stuff like this on shows like 'Rockford Files', 'Matlock' and 'Murder, She Wrote'.
I get my stuff from 'the TV shows'.
That's how to do it, right?

 

pf...@aol.com wrote:

On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 1:56:50 PM UTC-5, John-Del wrote:

Citation? Seems hard to believe...

Sorry, it varies by region, and I pulled my region and mis-applied it.

Nationally, about 41% are unreported.

You must have a more high class burglar where you are Peter. Most of the ones around here are pot heads looking for a quick score.

We had a rash of burglaries near our summer house, and 'they' got
our house. Turned out to be the estranged nephew of our neighbor,
who was stupid enough to leave mail addressed to him behind, and
leave the swag - such as it was - at his aunt's house next door. We
was caught, and in the process tried to run from the State Police.

'We?'

 

[John-Del]

On Sunday, November 19, 2017 at 5:12:56 PM UTC-5, John-Del wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2017 at 11:22:39 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, 19 November 2017 12:29:52 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

A successful burglar is not stupid.

then what are they doing burgling?

Most house robberies are committed during daylight hours when the residents are at work or school. Most are well-scoped. Have you had poll-takers, surveyors, solicitors for charity and various causes come to your door? Our township requires a license and picture-tag on a lanyard for such activities for that reason. Not that many comply.

Night-time burglaries tend to be equally well scoped. Such as porch-light on 24/7, or inside lights that stay on all night. Whatever is not what you do routinely will be spotted by a pro - and that is a signal for them. And, even timed lights that do not vary are a signal.

At the same time, a pro *will not* take on a challenge. They will move on to the next victim. It is similar to running from a bear. I do not have to outrun the bear, just the person with me. I do not have to have an impregnable house with super locks. Just be a bit more difficult than the guy next door.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Burglars come in all types. Any attempt to defend against just one type has a habit of defending against just one type.


NT



Thanks for all the info guys. I'm going to read back through it after Thanksgiving and see what I can try.

FWIW, this is not a security issue. We have a full perimeter security system installed in our home. My wife and I are both licensed carriers and anyone in our home that doesn't follow instructions to stop and drop *will* be dropped anyway.

Motion detectors have always been dodgy at best, and while I would prefer to have the lights come on when anyone approaches them for convenience reasons I'll settle for dusk till dawn lighting.

We live on a dead end in a quiet suburb and there are no street lights. On a moonless or overcast night, it's freaking dark and hard to see whether in the driveway, my front porch, or my back deck.

I was happy with the motion detecting light fixtures we had (although several were bad out of the box as I recall), they don't last long enough to justify their existence. They also are finicky about both LED and CCFL lamps.

I was thinking about just replacing the switches that control these fixtures with something like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Mytouchsmart-In-Wall-Timer-26893/206787190

With these, I can have the front porch and back deck lights go off after say midnight and leave the driveway lights on till morning. They are also compatible with CFL and LED lights, something most sensing detectors are not. The last step would be to gut the electronics out of the fixtures I have (which are aluminum and otherwise in excellent shape) and hard wire them through.

I ordered one of these to try: https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Econoswitch-RPLS740B-Programmable-Switch/dp/B004AP92N2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1511315107&sr=8-3&keywords=honeywell+in+wall+timer

This switch is better than the GE I linked to as it has a "solar time table" that will adjust the dusk and dawn switch times based on an internal chart using my location. It also will eliminate the need for a photo sensor. If it works as I hope, I'll get three more and replace the rest of the switches.