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"Airy R.Bean" <Me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:35civeF4kfve7U1@individual.net...
If you take a shock absorber that is not mounted in a vehicle,
and compress it, you'll find that it will spring back, just
as will a bicycle pump.
Bicycle pump I have has no internal spring
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:53:26 -0000, "Airy R.Bean" <Me@privacy.net
wrote:
The same analogy applies to springs and to shock absorbers;
the spring stores energy when stretched; the shock-absorber
stores energy when compressed.
Your statement is complete rubbish. If you don't know the science,
don't make it up.
Rubbish.Yes- you're partly right, and I was misled by
the OP, who perhaps was misguided into referring
to shock absorbers rather than to masses.
However, if you take a shock absorber that is not
mounted in a vehicle and compress it, you'll find that
it will spring back, much as if you compress a bicycle
pump with your finger closing the hole at the sharp end.
It won't spring back as far, nor as readily, however.
You need to follow your own advice.Let us not get side-tracked into irrelevancies
Rubbish.If you take a shock absorber that is not mounted in a vehicle,
and compress it, you'll find that it will spring back, just
as will a bicycle pump.
Yes... Think of a standard spring watch movement. (I believe theThey say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
of an inductor is a mass.They say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
If the mechanical analogue of capacitance is a spring, then the analogue
They have different resistance in bounce and reboundalanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1106265161.475444.323700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
They say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
inductors are not shock absorbers, as they do not dissipate energy like
shocks do.
Shocks would be simulated by a resistive element.
Answer to second is Yes. They are "tuned" to your cars mass, and expected
road conditions.
Shock absorbers are non linear.
Sort of like one of those Escalade objects.John Larkin wrote:
If you jump on the fender of a car with bad shocks, the entire car
oscillates. It's the mass of the car and the stiffness of the springs
that determine the resonant frequency, typically a couple of Hz; if
you take the cars's mass as infinite, absolutely nothing will happen
if you jump on it.
John
Actually, you'll be sucked into the resulting black hole...
---If you treat
Capacitance = mass
Inductance = spring
Resistance = damping (shock absorber, viscoscity)
then identical differential equations will describe both systems.
I do not know what you mean by "It is only an analogy." The analogy IThese analogies are meaningful because of identical mathematical
description. As part of the formalism, charge is equivalent to position and
rate of charge change is current and analogous to rate of change of
position.
Capacitors store potential electrical energy C*V^2/2 as springs store
potential mechanical energy k*x^2/2. Inductors store kinetic electrical
energy L*I^2/2 as masses store kinetic mechanical energy m*v^2/2.
When you make a lagrangian formulation based upon these energies, the
equations for electrical and mechanical motions are identical and frequency
dependence is identical.
Bill
I agree with this. It is only an analogy. Just as process / chemical
engineers equate water pressure to voltage and water flow to current,
you can use a spring or shock absorber to describe the VAr.
As long as the analogy is only appropriate to grasp basic principle of
operation, you are OK. If they know enough to get into calculations and
want to start doing the math, then get them an electrical textbook and
get them to accept that a negative number can have a square root....
The spring is how I describe the VAr to our mechies and process types.
It seems to satisfy them, and allows them to understand enough about
what I'm talking about to accept what they see, electrically.
I think he was referring to transfer function, not mechanical alignment.A shock absorber that moves other than in a straight line is an MOT
failure.
"Jonathan Barnes" <jbarnes6@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:csrio2$8je$1@titan.btinternet.com...
Shock absorbers are non linear.
Our lives are too complex and too nonlinear.My original description using lagrangian formulation based upon lagrangians
need to have a velocity dependent dissipation function added to the
lagrangian to take into account resistive as well as rective components.
Unforunately lagrangian formulation is not a tool used by many EEs.
cross-posted to the universe at large.alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1106265161.475444.323700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
They say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
inductors are not shock absorbers, as they do not dissipate energy like
shocks do.
Shocks would be simulated by a resistive element.
Answer to second is Yes. They are "tuned" to your cars mass, and expected
road conditions.
spring are supported parts, definining a resonant frequency (takingOn 20 Jan 2005 15:52:41 -0800, alanh_27@yahoo.com wrote:
They say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
If you treat
Capacitance = mass
Inductance = spring
Resistance = damping (shock absorber, viscoscity)
then identical differential equations will describe both systems.
A parallel L-C circuit has a resonant frequency where it's easiest to
excite. A mass hung on a spring is the same, it twangs at a resonant
frequency if whacked. Jump on the fender of a car with bad shocks; it
will bounce at the resonant frequency.
John
Yes, a car suspension has all three derivatives. The mass and its
Though it is quite possible to use several different physical pairsin article 1106265161.475444.323700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
alanh_27@yahoo.com at alanh_27@yahoo.com wrote on 1/20/05 3:52 PM:
They say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
These analogies are meaningful because of identical mathematical
description. As part of the formalism, charge is equivalent to position and
rate of charge change is current and analogous to rate of change of
position.
Capacitors store potential electrical energy C*V^2/2 as springs store
potential mechanical energy k*x^2/2. Inductors store kinetic electrical
energy L*I^2/2 as masses store kinetic mechanical energy m*v^2/2.
When you make a lagrangian formulation based upon these energies, the
equations for electrical and mechanical motions are identical and frequency
dependence is identical.
Bill
Bill
For a mass-spring system, if we assume a rectifying force which isOn Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:55:28 GMT, Repeating Rifle
salmonegg@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
in article 1106265161.475444.323700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
alanh_27@yahoo.com at alanh_27@yahoo.com wrote on 1/20/05 3:52 PM:
They say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
These analogies are meaningful because of identical mathematical
description. As part of the formalism, charge is equivalent to position and
rate of charge change is current and analogous to rate of change of
position.
Capacitors store potential electrical energy C*V^2/2 as springs store
potential mechanical energy k*x^2/2. Inductors store kinetic electrical
energy L*I^2/2 as masses store kinetic mechanical energy m*v^2/2.
When you make a lagrangian formulation based upon these energies, the
equations for electrical and mechanical motions are identical and frequency
dependence is identical.
Bill
Bill
Though it is quite possible to use several different physical pairs
for C and L anologs, I confirm that for mass and springs,
Bill is spelling out a pairing that I know is in use: i.e. the spring
is not the L as you might suppose, but the C.
Brian Whatcott Altus OK
If you jump on the fender of a car with bad shocks, the entire carOn Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:40:45 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:
On 20 Jan 2005 15:52:41 -0800, alanh_27@yahoo.com wrote:
They say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
If you treat
Capacitance = mass
Inductance = spring
Resistance = damping (shock absorber, viscoscity)
then identical differential equations will describe both systems.
A parallel L-C circuit has a resonant frequency where it's easiest to
excite. A mass hung on a spring is the same, it twangs at a resonant
frequency if whacked. Jump on the fender of a car with bad shocks; it
will bounce at the resonant frequency.
John
Yes, a car suspension has all three derivatives. The mass and its
spring are supported parts, definining a resonant frequency (taking
the mass of the car as infinite). The shock absorber with its viscous
drag adds dissipation sufficient to overwhelm the sharp resonance, or
else you have to buy new shocks.
(nodal modal)On 20 Jan 2005 15:52:41 -0800, alanh_27@yahoo.com wrote:
They say that the mechanical analogues of capacitors are springs, and
of inductors are shock absorbers. And this does have a strong
intuitive appeal.
But do springs/shock absorbers have any kind of frequency-dependent
behaviors?
If you treat
Capacitance = mass
Inductance = spring
Resistance = damping (shock absorber, viscoscity)
then identical differential equations will describe both systems.
A parallel L-C circuit has a resonant frequency where it's easiest to
excite. A mass hung on a spring is the same, it twangs at a resonant
frequency if whacked. Jump on the fender of a car with bad shocks; it
will bounce at the resonant frequency.
John
To complete your analogy - treat current as force and voltage as velocity.