Spoke sensor for bicycle...

[Don Y]

On 6/15/2022 8:43 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 06/15/2022 09:33 AM, Don Y wrote:

Bikes won\'t work well as I\'d want to be able to take the \"shortcuts\"
over dirt/gravel/grass. Something more \"ATV-ish\" is called for.
Hence the Segway option. (The Segway \"egg\" looks do-able)

https://www.montaguebikes.com/product/paratrooper/

Any mountain bike will be at home off the pavement. I\'ve got a Montague because
I wanted a full-sized folding bike I can put in the back of the Yaris. Bike
racks and hatchbacks don\'t play well together.

Bike relies heavily on rider. My body is no longer as \"pliable\"
as it used to be, making reaction times a significant issue to
ridership.

I also have to be wary of the laws regarding where you can operate
said \"conveyance\". E.g., I don\'t think bicycles are allowed on sidewalks.
And, the rules for ebikes might be different.

I don\'t think sidewalk riding is illegal here but I wonder about the people who
ride on sidewalks or the shoulder of the road when there\'s a perfectly good
bike path six feet away.

Bike paths, for the most part, run along the washes; a few in town but they
share the pavement with vehicles (which is where bikes are supposed to ride).

Here, cities have final authority over regulating bikes. Tucson prohibits
riding bikes on sidewalks (unless posted otherwise). Other localities can
set their own restrictions/permissions.

Ebikes are up in the air. They\'re banned on quite a few trails but there\'s no
blanket prohibition. There\'s an attempt to distinguish between electric assist
and outright electric drive.

eBikes (of all kinds) and \"motorized bikes\" are treated like bicycles wrt
sidewalk riding. There are some distinctions (Watts or cc\'s) that allow for
the bike to be classed as a \"scooter\"/moped which just makes it harder
to think of it as suitable for sidewalk use.

Wheelchairs are deliberately accommodated on sidewalks with specifications
as to the slope of the on/off ramps, \"texture\" to alert users that they
are entering/exiting the roadway, etc.

I\'m sure electric wheelchairs are classed the same as regular wheelchairs.
There\'s the possibility that some narrow-minded cop might consider a
gas-generator powered electric wheelchair to be considered a \"motor bike\"
but I suspect that wouldn\'t hold up in court (there is nothing that
states HOW the power is sourced)

I suspect Segways would be classed as ebikes, if the statutes were
parsed carefully.

Years ago, I tried the bike approach. Driving on the roads is just too
perilous. Having to cross 4 lanes of 45+MPH traffic several times on each
\"short trip\" left my nerves jangled.

Forty tears ago I\'d ride on Boston streets. Over the years I gotten much more
paranoid. I gave up a favorite route because it\'s a narrow two lane road with
no shoulder. The fog line is the edge of the pavement and there\'s only a ditch
past it. Most people are good but it is frequented by F350 dualies pulling
stock trailers.

The other route is on a very wide shoulder for about three miles and then a
bike/pedestrian path.

When I was younger, traffic wouldn\'t bother me. I\'d ride from my place in
Medford, down Mystic Valley/Alewife Brook/Fresh Pond -Parkways to pick up
take-out at Big Joyce Chen\'s -- navigating the delightful 55MPH rotaries
along the way (talk about hair-raising!).

Or, down Mass Ave to school, crossing Harvard Sq \"the wrong way\" to cut a block
off the trip.

I was more \"nimble\" on the bike than on foot. Now, the reverse is the case
(I can get my body out of harms way a lot easier than I\'d be able to get
it AND a bike out!)

 

[John Doe]

Typical idiotic irrelevant response from Always Wrong...

--
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

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From: DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Spoke sensor for bicycle
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 04:20:50 -0000 (UTC)
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John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in
news:t8aiai$34s$1@dont-email.me:

On Android? Can anybody name one such Android app (with a decent
rating) that DOESN\'T work off-line (at least after you have paid
the 1 or $2 for it)? There are plenty of hiking apps, obviously
all of them work off-line.


There are a lot of games that do not work offline for obvious
reasons.

Cant play Euchre with a worldwide set of opponents offline.

D\'Oh! John Dope is not very bright.

 

[Edward Hernandez]

In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me>
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:

Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope\'s post ratio
to USENET (**) has been 59.3% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.

** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
least 1785 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
885 have been John Dope \"troll format\" postings.

The John Dope troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Dope troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Dope troll has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Thu, 16 Jun 2022 12:51:18 -0000 (UTC) in message-id
<t8f906$n4h$3@dont-email.me>).

NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that Troll Doe does not even follow
the rules it uses to troll other posters.

zT5LYfOE1c7c

 

[Don]

rbowman wrote:

Don wrote:
My own mountain cycling takes place year around. Throughout the winter:

https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/winter.png

Do you run studs?

No. Winter spins on the storied North Face of the mountain south of town
are more infrequent, shorter, and require more preconditions. Such spins
primarily keep my legs in shape for summer fun. (If you don\'t use it you
lose it.)
In the Winter the paved road to a promontory called Lookout must be
mostly dry. Although snowy patches here and there are OK and crunchy
rime ice is OK; black ice is a show stopper.
The temperature at the start must be above 39 degrees F. Your own
body heat keeps you toasty under a windbreaker thrown over a long sleeve
t-shirt. Your own sweat drenches you, and becomes a very big problem on
the way down.
Southern chinook winds warm the town in the dead of Winter. But,
they also agonize ascents on the North Face. Imagine gale force
headwinds as you pedal a bicycle up a mountain.
The ideal time for an ascent in Winter is when a storm first starts
to blow in. The chinook eases off to slowly give way to a Northern
tailwind.
Of course the tailwind\'s cold and it becomes a headwind on the way
back down. Remember my sweat drenched clothes? Add a nominal North wind
of 20 MPH to a nominal 40 MPH downhill speed and you face a 60 MPH wind
chill. Frozen digits on the way down become your biggest problem.

Danke,

--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

 

[server]

John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t8f906$n4h$3@dont-
email.me:

Typical idiotic irrelevant response from Always Wrong...

The idiot John Dope challenges a response, it gets filled, and then
the putz denies he challenged anyone and declares their response to be
irrelevant, when it addressed the challenge 100%. And uses name
calling like the immature little school boy putz mentality dumbfuck he
is.

You really are an immature old fool, John Dope.

 

[John Doe]

In Today\'s News...

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel said Wednesday that there should be \"a
drag queen for every school.\"

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/06/16/nolte-michigans-attorney-general-wants-drag-queen-every-school/

\"Drag queens are entertainment. And you know what I\'ll say that was totally
not poll-tested, I\'d say this - \'A drag queen for every school\'\"\"

San Francisco Democrat DA was recalled last week (terminated), now Los
Angeles Democrat DA is being pursued by Terminator Recall.

Apparently the current administration is promoting record gas prices, to
reduce consumption. Of course that will help Democrats get elected...

 

[rbowman]

On 06/16/2022 09:28 AM, Don wrote:

In the Winter the paved road to a promontory called Lookout must be
mostly dry. Although snowy patches here and there are OK and crunchy
rime ice is OK; black ice is a show stopper.

It certainly is. I was riding a trail that was mostly clear and came to
a patch of smooth ice. I figured I could blow past it but physics
disagreed.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 16/6/22 14:07, rbowman wrote:

On 06/15/2022 11:08 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
I have seen \"normal\" bicycles with a battery and some electric
motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
(making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
would I bike if I didn\'t want the exercise.

Some do not require any pedaling. Locally they\'re trying to find a way
to legally differentiate between the two.

Those aren\'t road-legal here in Australia, though some folk have them
anyway.

Road use has three legal requirements:
* 250W max
* no assist above 27km/hr
* no assist unless pedalling (no throttle)

Clifford Hetah.

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 6/17/2022 6:24, rbowman wrote:

On 06/16/2022 09:28 AM, Don wrote:
    In the Winter the paved road to a promontory called Lookout must be
mostly dry. Although snowy patches here and there are OK and crunchy
rime ice is OK; black ice is a show stopper.

It certainly is.  I was riding a trail that was mostly clear and came to
a patch of smooth ice. I figured I could blow past it but physics
disagreed.

To me riding when there is snow is too much of a madness. I do ride
during the winter months when it is dry and I have occasionally landed
on a patch of snow, barely being able to control the slide (it typically
happens at a curve on my daily track where the snow melts slowest).
My tires are perhaps half as wide as Don\'s, may be 1/3, but still.

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 11:24:15 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:

On 06/16/2022 09:28 AM, Don wrote:
In the Winter the paved road to a promontory called Lookout must be
mostly dry. Although snowy patches here and there are OK and crunchy
rime ice is OK; black ice is a show stopper.
It certainly is. I was riding a trail that was mostly clear and came to
a patch of smooth ice. I figured I could blow past it but physics
disagreed.

You need at least one more wheel for that to work.

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-06-14, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:16:34 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
while I know there are plenty of super cheap \"bicycle computers\" I have
been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the
MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive
sensor.

I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors
than I have.
This might be blasphemy, but...

Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
at least here in America.

People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal
coverage. That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time.
But that 0.1% of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of
cell phone range. So any solution needs to not depend on a cell phone
connection. If you can use the GPS in your phone without a cell
connection, great! But I haven\'t found such a program as yet. Maybe
I just haven\'t dug deep enough.

Well it\'s GPS so it\'s less reliable in tall cities or deep ravines.
but it doesn\'t need a cell signal.



--
Jasen.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-06-14, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

On 6/14/2022 21:21, whit3rd wrote:

Putting the magnet underneath the tire is an idea. Of course I might
lose it if I have a flat and repair it on the road (you won\'t believe
how often I was getting a flat until I got my latest tires, they claim
to have some Kevlar and I had just one flat in a year or two (can\'t
remember if I got them last year or the year before, almost replacement
due now). But then I have a decent supply of coin magnets, too (say 1mm
thick/10mm diameter)...

you could attach the magnet using a tube patch.
I have some 5mm magnets that would fit in a Schrader valve cap.

--
Jasen.

 

[Ricky]

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 10:30:56 PM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2022-06-14, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:16:34 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
while I know there are plenty of super cheap \"bicycle computers\" I have
been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the
MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive
sensor.

I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors
than I have.
This might be blasphemy, but...

Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
at least here in America.

People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal
coverage. That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time.
But that 0.1% of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of
cell phone range. So any solution needs to not depend on a cell phone
connection. If you can use the GPS in your phone without a cell
connection, great! But I haven\'t found such a program as yet. Maybe
I just haven\'t dug deep enough.

Well it\'s GPS so it\'s less reliable in tall cities or deep ravines.
but it doesn\'t need a cell signal.

I suppose that\'s true if you have an app that doesn\'t require a network connection. The few apps I\'ve tried don\'t seem to do much without a cell signal.

Then there\'s the problem of cell phones running for very long in continuous use without being recharged. A friend\'s phone would only last a few hours when running a GPS app in his car.

--

Rick C.

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[whit3rd]

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:30:56 PM UTC-7, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2022-06-14, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
sensors than I have.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor

That requires a magnetic material, some spokes are almost
non-magnetic stainless steel. (only very weakly paramagnetic)

So, sense a sprocket tooth instead, or clip a magnet onto a spoke and don\'t
rely on the spoke material at all. Hardest problem with reluctance is the
low-output-at-slow-speed problem (Wiegand wire being one solution already mentioned).

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-06-18, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:30:56 PM UTC-7, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2022-06-14, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
sensors than I have.

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor

That requires a magnetic material, some spokes are almost
non-magnetic stainless steel. (only very weakly paramagnetic)

So, sense a sprocket tooth instead, or clip a magnet onto a spoke and don\'t
rely on the spoke material at all. Hardest problem with reluctance is the
low-output-at-slow-speed problem (Wiegand wire being one solution already mentioned).

You can mitigate the amplitude problem somewhat by parallelling a
capacitor, but that won\'t boost the voltage at low speed, it just puts
a hard limit on the high-speed output.

Wiegand needs to be re-magnetised to the opposite polarity to produce a pulse, but two magnets
are probably not a deal breaker if one is acceptable.

--
Jasen.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Clive Arthur wrote:

On 15/06/2022 07:52, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn
joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in
4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:

Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor

But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic.  This can be
solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
adhesive.  The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

Joe Gwinn

Just thinking, use a camera looking down
The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
Almost like a computah mouse...

Forty years or so ago I was doing some work for either Austin Rover or
British Leyland, can\'t remember which world-leading high-quality British
car manufacturer, there were so many.

Anyway, a test car they used had something like that - an optical device
looking at the road to accurately measure speed.  IIRC it was very
expensive.

I have a feeling it was something to do with diffraction gratings and
prisms.

There\'s a fun effect that\'s sometimes used in sensors for things like
paper handlers: if you shine a laser on a rough surface, the speckle
pattern moves exactly twice as fast as the surface. This turns out to
be a fairly deep consequence of the law of reflection.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 11:51:30 AM UTC-4, Dimiter Popoff wrote:

I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
And while I know there are plenty of super cheap \"bicycle computers\"
I have been thinking of making my own.
Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
sensors than I have.

You\'re talking about devices that sell on Aliexpress for $1.29.

If you\'re a halfway serious cyclist, there are computers that measure cadence, pedal rotations per minute, again with a magnet attached to the pedals, in addition to the usual RPM/ speed and total distance. Looks like the reed relays have been abandoned in favor of hall effect or the giant magntoresistance technology, dunno which. The packages are way too flat to house a relay. The little magnets and their housing look unchanged from the reed relay days.
Plotting the actual route has always been a big deal for road cyclists, so I imagine GPS is used for that in the high end units- but they still need magnets and sensors for cadence measurement, and probably a backup for wheel RPM.

The so-called industrial designers look first at the kind of functionality and form the prospective users will most likely want, and only then hand the design off to nuts and bolts people capable of making a physical product.
You\'ll be hard pressed to improve upon or innovate existing products.

======================================================
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
======================================================
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/

 

[Clive Arthur]

On 15/06/2022 07:52, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn
joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:

Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect

.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor

But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be
solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

Joe Gwinn

Just thinking, use a camera looking down
The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
Almost like a computah mouse...

Forty years or so ago I was doing some work for either Austin Rover or
British Leyland, can\'t remember which world-leading high-quality British
car manufacturer, there were so many.

Anyway, a test car they used had something like that - an optical device
looking at the road to accurately measure speed. IIRC it was very
expensive.

I have a feeling it was something to do with diffraction gratings and
prisms.

--
Cheers
Clive

 

[none]

In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
<SNIP>

I have seen \"normal\" bicycles with a battery and some electric
motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
(making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
would I bike if I didn\'t want the exercise.

Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).

Groetjes Albert
--
\"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol\" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

 

[rbowman]

On 07/11/2022 02:59 AM, albert wrote:

In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
SNIP

I have seen \"normal\" bicycles with a battery and some electric
motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
(making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
would I bike if I didn\'t want the exercise.

Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).

Groetjes Albert

Are they as expensive as in the US where they start at 1600 USD and go
to more than twice that? I watched a video by a man in his \'60s that was
very informative. He liked the bike but pointed out some of the
disadvantages. Since they\'re a hot commodity they tend to get stolen.
The best U-lock or chain is no obstacle for someone with a portable
angle grinder. The batteries are also vulnerable, at around $500. They
do have a lock but according to him a couple of sharp blows with spring it.

He\'d had knee problems and hadn\'t ridden a bicycle in 30 years. Between
that and the higher center of gravity he\'d fallen twice. He did a survey
of the ebike forums and found that was common. My thought was they may
attract people who have little experience on two wheels. That\'s
concerning since they seem to fall into two categories, 20 mph motors
with more torque and 27 mph motors wound for a little less torque but
more speed.