split aircons at aldi/bunnings

[Metro]

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:9gd0q7Fq05U1@mid.individual.net...

On 21/10/2011 11:41 AM, Metro wrote:

Incidentally, many of these cheap A/C's use aluminium piping instead of
copper which makes it very difficult and expensive to repair if you get a
gas leak.


Welding aluminium being not for the faint hearted.

Could one replace all the piping with copper at install time, albeit at
some cost?

Sylvia.

I'm talking about the internal piping. The Aly is not as malleable as copper

and can crack with vibration etc. It is also hard to form if you need to
bend it away from something

Metro...

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2011-10-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

On 21/10/2011 11:41 AM, Metro wrote:

Incidentally, many of these cheap A/C's use aluminium piping instead of
copper which makes it very difficult and expensive to repair if you get a
gas leak.


Welding aluminium being not for the faint hearted.

It solders easily enough though (with the right flux and solder).
noone welds copper pipe.

Could one replace all the piping with copper at install time, albeit at
some cost?

I see no reason why not except possibly galvanic corrosion problems.

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---

 

[Metro]

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:j81ve0$p90$1@reversiblemaps.ath.cx...

On 2011-10-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 21/10/2011 11:41 AM, Metro wrote:

Incidentally, many of these cheap A/C's use aluminium piping instead of
copper which makes it very difficult and expensive to repair if you get
a
gas leak.


Welding aluminium being not for the faint hearted.

It solders easily enough though (with the right flux and solder).
noone welds copper pipe.

To say that ' noone' welds copper pipe is wrong. It's done all the time.

You can weld with adhesive, solder, filler rod, gas and electric etc. Copper
pipe is often welded together with silver solder.To weld something only
means to unite or join.............We often weld pvc sheeting on our jobs

 

[Metro]

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sknoq.4554$NR2.551@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...

kreed wrote:
On Oct 17, 7:31 pm, atec77<ate...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 17/10/2011 7:16 PM, syd bluemountains wrote:> I was looking at the
low cost split aircons at Bunnings on a pallete
for $599 and now I see the latest Aldi catalog has a cheap reverse
cycle split system for $599.
Q; Can you set this up at home with no vacuum equipment? How do you
connect the copper tubing between the outside compressor and split
system inside with no special equipment? I cant open the box to read
the manual before buying and the bunnings sales person just says, yes
no problem setting up at home if you are handy..

thanks

I can't suggest it's possible and you will introduce air , now it may be
vacuumed already but dependent on state law you ma by law need a trady
to install at least the connection

--
X-No-Archive: Yes


BTW was there the other day, the length of the refrigeration pipe as
supplied was 3.5 metre.
He said that it is not practical to shorten the pipes as they are pre-
flared at the ends, and modern
units use a very hard type of pipe that is very hard to make a flared
end in compared to the older types of refrigeration pipe.

As such, you would have to coil up any excess pipe somewhere
convenient if you are to install such a system.

rubbish, just anneal the pipe if it is too hard.

It's not really rubbish. Modern A/C's have different fittings to that of the
older units. Therefore quite expensive flaring tools have to be acquired. Of
course if you do this a regas would be required. At a cost and then the
system vacuumed down.

 

[John G]

Metro explained on 24/10/2011 :

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:j81ve0$p90$1@reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2011-10-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 21/10/2011 11:41 AM, Metro wrote:

Incidentally, many of these cheap A/C's use aluminium piping instead of
copper which makes it very difficult and expensive to repair if you get a
gas leak.


Welding aluminium being not for the faint hearted.

It solders easily enough though (with the right flux and solder).
noone welds copper pipe.

To say that ' noone' welds copper pipe is wrong. It's done all the time. You
can weld with adhesive, solder, filler rod, gas and electric etc. Copper pipe
is often welded together with silver solder.To weld something only means to
unite or join.............We often weld pvc sheeting on our jobs

In the contex -- To solder, to most people means to use soft solder
and a low temerature torch.
To weld means to use a 2 gas torch or some form of arc to attain the
higher temperatures of Silver soldering, brazing or arc welding.

Of course you WELD PVC sheeting, there is no such term or process in
plastics as soldering.
And yes to the pedantic all the above may be welding but welding often
has no added other material in the joint.

Wheras soldering always rquires Solder to join the other 2 pieces.

The real solution to this absurdly long thread is to install a packaged
unit as supplied or get professional help to do a custom job.

--
John G.

 

[bristan]

"Metro" wrote in message
news:4ea498b0$0$2447$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

To say that ' noone' welds copper pipe is wrong. It's done all the time.

You can weld with adhesive, solder, filler rod, gas and electric etc. Copper
pipe is often welded together with silver solder.To weld something only
means to unite or join.............We often weld pvc sheeting on our jobs

Incorrect,
Welding does not just mean uniting or joining.
Materials welded together have to be at a temperature above their melting
point .
Soldering or brazing is surface alloying and the joined materials are below
their melting temps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welding

 

[F Murtz]

Metro wrote:

"F Murtz"<haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sknoq.4554$NR2.551@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
kreed wrote:
On Oct 17, 7:31 pm, atec77<ate...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 17/10/2011 7:16 PM, syd bluemountains wrote:> I was looking at the
low cost split aircons at Bunnings on a pallete
for $599 and now I see the latest Aldi catalog has a cheap reverse
cycle split system for $599.
Q; Can you set this up at home with no vacuum equipment? How do you
connect the copper tubing between the outside compressor and split
system inside with no special equipment? I cant open the box to read
the manual before buying and the bunnings sales person just says, yes
no problem setting up at home if you are handy..

thanks

I can't suggest it's possible and you will introduce air , now it may be
vacuumed already but dependent on state law you ma by law need a trady
to install at least the connection

--
X-No-Archive: Yes


BTW was there the other day, the length of the refrigeration pipe as
supplied was 3.5 metre.
He said that it is not practical to shorten the pipes as they are pre-
flared at the ends, and modern
units use a very hard type of pipe that is very hard to make a flared
end in compared to the older types of refrigeration pipe.

As such, you would have to coil up any excess pipe somewhere
convenient if you are to install such a system.


rubbish, just anneal the pipe if it is too hard.

It's not really rubbish. Modern A/C's have different fittings to that of the
older units. Therefore quite expensive flaring tools have to be acquired. Of
course if you do this a regas would be required. At a cost and then the
system vacuumed down.

Still rot, we are only talking about shortening the copper between the
outside unit and the inside and normal flaring tools are used.
A regas would not be needed on a new install.
>

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2011-10-23, Metro <Home@home> wrote:

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:j81ve0$p90$1@reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2011-10-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 21/10/2011 11:41 AM, Metro wrote:

Incidentally, many of these cheap A/C's use aluminium piping instead of
copper which makes it very difficult and expensive to repair if you get
a >>>> gas leak.


Welding aluminium being not for the faint hearted.

It solders easily enough though (with the right flux and solder).
noone welds copper pipe.

To say that ' noone' welds copper pipe is wrong. It's done all the time.

I never heard of it being done for a domestic or commercial air-con
install. is always soldering where pipe sections need to be joined.
(unless it's a flared joint etc.)

You can weld with adhesive,solder, filler rod, gas and electric etc. Copper
pipe is often welded together with silver solder.

with adhesive it's gluing, with solder soldering.

if the filler mixes with the pieces being joined it's welding.

To weld something only means to unite or join.

you need to get a bigger dictionary.

...........We often weld pvc sheeting on our jobs

I've seen welded PVC sheets (eg: beachballs) it's an ultrasonic
pressure precess isn't it?

plumbers often weld solid pvc using solvents to get it to coalesce

I've heard of solid polystyrene (not foam) being welded using ether.

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---

 

[Krypsis]

On 24/10/2011 10:52 AM, John G wrote:

Metro explained on 24/10/2011 :
"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:j81ve0$p90$1@reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2011-10-21, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:
On 21/10/2011 11:41 AM, Metro wrote:

Incidentally, many of these cheap A/C's use aluminium piping
instead of
copper which makes it very difficult and expensive to repair if you
get a
gas leak.


Welding aluminium being not for the faint hearted.

It solders easily enough though (with the right flux and solder).
noone welds copper pipe.

To say that ' noone' welds copper pipe is wrong. It's done all the
time. You can weld with adhesive, solder, filler rod, gas and electric
etc. Copper pipe is often welded together with silver solder.To weld
something only means to unite or join.............We often weld pvc
sheeting on our jobs

In the contex -- To solder, to most people means to use soft solder and
a low temerature torch.
To weld means to use a 2 gas torch or some form of arc to attain the
higher temperatures of Silver soldering, brazing or arc welding.

Of course you WELD PVC sheeting, there is no such term or process in
plastics as soldering.

Plastic welding is used extensively these days in the automotive smash
repair industry. Had a go at it myself back in 81 or 82. It's not a new
process by any means and it isn't difficult to do.

And yes to the pedantic all the above may be welding but welding often
has no added other material in the joint.

That depends on what the other material is. In most welding I have done
myself and that which I have seen others do, there is a "filler"
material used. The filler material isn't always the same as the material
being welded. Electric arc welding rods are a case in point as you can
get a huge variety of different types of rods for a wide variety of
purposes. These filler materials are selected and used according to the
needs of the welded joint and in many cases can make the welded joint
much stronger than the surrounding unwelded material.

Wheras soldering always rquires Solder to join the other 2 pieces.

The real solution to this absurdly long thread is to install a packaged
unit as supplied or get professional help to do a custom job.

--

Krypsis

 

[kreed]

On Oct 17, 7:16 pm, syd bluemountains <g...@joho.com> wrote:

I was looking at the low cost split aircons at Bunnings on a pallete
for $599 and now I see the latest Aldi catalog has a cheap reverse
cycle split system for $599.
Q;  Can you set this up at home with no vacuum equipment? How do you
connect the copper tubing between the outside compressor and split
system inside with no special equipment?  I cant open the box to read
the manual before buying and the bunnings sales person just says, yes
no problem setting up at home if you are handy..

thanks

has anyone here bought one of these air cons and can tell that it is
self install ?


I looked at one today at aldi, and the "installation manual" specified
that it was necessary to flare the pipe and also to vacuum out the
pipes. This doesn't sound like self install to me.

 

[F Murtz]

kreed wrote:

On Oct 17, 7:16 pm, syd bluemountains<g...@joho.com> wrote:
I was looking at the low cost split aircons at Bunnings on a pallete
for $599 and now I see the latest Aldi catalog has a cheap reverse
cycle split system for $599.
Q; Can you set this up at home with no vacuum equipment? How do you
connect the copper tubing between the outside compressor and split
system inside with no special equipment? I cant open the box to read
the manual before buying and the bunnings sales person just says, yes
no problem setting up at home if you are handy..

thanks

has anyone here bought one of these air cons and can tell that it is
self install ?


I looked at one today at aldi, and the "installation manual" specified
that it was necessary to flare the pipe and also to vacuum out the
pipes. This doesn't sound like self install to me.

Not sure how you would "vacuum out the pipes"as the outside section is
usually charged with gas which you would lose if you tried.
with these units you usually connect pre flared tubes, leaving one a bit
undone, turn an allen key a bit to release gas up into and through
evaporator driving air from the pipes then tighten flare nut after a
very short time then fully open allen key valve.

 

[kreed]

On Nov 7, 5:23 pm, F Murtz <hagg...@hotmail.com> wrote:

kreed wrote:
On Oct 17, 7:16 pm, syd bluemountains<g...@joho.com>  wrote:
I was looking at the low cost split aircons at Bunnings on a pallete
for $599 and now I see the latest Aldi catalog has a cheap reverse
cycle split system for $599.
Q;  Can you set this up at home with no vacuum equipment? How do you
connect the copper tubing between the outside compressor and split
system inside with no special equipment?  I cant open the box to read
the manual before buying and the bunnings sales person just says, yes
no problem setting up at home if you are handy..

thanks

has anyone here bought one of these air cons and can tell that it is
self install ?

I looked at one today at aldi, and the "installation manual" specified
that it was necessary to flare the pipe and also to vacuum out the
pipes.  This doesn't sound like self install to me.

Not sure how you would "vacuum out the pipes"as the outside section is
usually charged with gas which you would lose if you tried.
with these units you usually connect pre flared tubes, leaving one a bit
undone, turn an allen key a bit to release gas up into and through
evaporator driving air from the pipes then tighten flare nut after a
very short time then fully open allen key valve.

They showed the use of a vacuum pump in the installation manual.

I looked at the bunnings ones today, they were AKAI brand, came in 3
sizes, no one had a clue whether they were self install or not, and
the manuals were not accessable.

 

[F Murtz]

kreed wrote:

On Nov 7, 5:23 pm, F Murtz<hagg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
kreed wrote:
On Oct 17, 7:16 pm, syd bluemountains<g...@joho.com> wrote:
I was looking at the low cost split aircons at Bunnings on a pallete
for $599 and now I see the latest Aldi catalog has a cheap reverse
cycle split system for $599.
Q; Can you set this up at home with no vacuum equipment? How do you
connect the copper tubing between the outside compressor and split
system inside with no special equipment? I cant open the box to read
the manual before buying and the bunnings sales person just says, yes
no problem setting up at home if you are handy..

thanks

has anyone here bought one of these air cons and can tell that it is
self install ?

I looked at one today at aldi, and the "installation manual" specified
that it was necessary to flare the pipe and also to vacuum out the
pipes. This doesn't sound like self install to me.

Not sure how you would "vacuum out the pipes"as the outside section is
usually charged with gas which you would lose if you tried.
with these units you usually connect pre flared tubes, leaving one a bit
undone, turn an allen key a bit to release gas up into and through
evaporator driving air from the pipes then tighten flare nut after a
very short time then fully open allen key valve.

They showed the use of a vacuum pump in the installation manual.

I looked at the bunnings ones today, they were AKAI brand, came in 3
sizes, no one had a clue whether they were self install or not, and
the manuals were not accessable.

I don't know ho they do that unless the hose connection with the
schrader valve in it is open to the flair connection to the evaporator
when the allen key valve is shut. Doing one shortly I will check.(Mine
will run on R290 (propane)) All of these units have warnings that
licensed people must install but are designed that any one mechanically
capable can do it.