splicing molex connectors

[Richard Crowley]

"Quadrajet1" <quadrajet1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040106144638.04031.00002694@mb-m07.aol.com...

"Quadrajet1" wrote ...
this is a bunch of BS. IF they cancelled fire insurance
because of this, then every repaired TV, radio, stereo,
computer, monitor, etc... would cause people to lose
their insurance.

Taking something to a "professional" for repair is NOT the
same as hacking it yourself. Even if you know what you are
doing. Haven't dealt with many insurance adjusters, I take it?
I sincerely hope you never have to.

Hey, I didn't write that!!!

Then you have been hijacked. It was posted from YOUR
account at 6:58 AM on Monday, 05-Jan-04. You can see
for yourself on groups.google.com (it is message #7 in the
thread).

 

[Tim Auton]

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

"Quadrajet1" <quadrajet1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040106144638.04031.00002694@mb-m07.aol.com...
"Quadrajet1" wrote ...
this is a bunch of BS. IF they cancelled fire insurance
because of this, then every repaired TV, radio, stereo,
computer, monitor, etc... would cause people to lose
their insurance.

Taking something to a "professional" for repair is NOT the
same as hacking it yourself. Even if you know what you are
doing. Haven't dealt with many insurance adjusters, I take it?
I sincerely hope you never have to.

Hey, I didn't write that!!!

Then you have been hijacked. It was posted from YOUR
account at 6:58 AM on Monday, 05-Jan-04. You can see
for yourself on groups.google.com (it is message #7 in the
thread).

My newsreader shows Daniel L Belton as the author of what you quoted,
which is from the 6th, not the 7th message in the thread. Google
groups agrees.

Quadrajet1 should use standard quoting though, not that << >>
business. It's non-standard (for usenet) so you are asking for
trouble. Every wondered why everyone else adds a character (usually &gt
to every line of a quote? Wonder no more.


Tim
--
The .sig is dead.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Tim Auton" wrote ...

My newsreader shows Daniel L Belton as the author of
what you quoted, which is from the 6th, not the 7th message
in the thread. Google groups agrees.

Quadrajet1 should use standard quoting though, not that
business. It's non-standard (for usenet) so you are asking for
trouble. Every wondered why everyone else adds a character
(usually &gt to every line of a quote? Wonder no more.

Bzzzzt! You are correct, sir!
Foiled again by the <<< >>>
Apologies to Mr. Jet

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

Richard Crowley wrote:

"Daniel L. Belton" wrote ...

look at your drive power wiring again... it's not 18
gauge wire... most use 22 - 20 guage.


Actually, I have 10 [drives] running here in my
computer at home.


I see your problem. You are trying to run 10 drives from
a power supply that uses 20-22ga wires!

First, you should consider buying decent power supplies
that don't use tinsel as a substitute for real wire. A quick
check of all the power supplies around the house shows
that the one with the SMALLEST wire is 16ga (rated for
22A.) And that is the one that I removed from a friend's
computer because it failed. But I'm sure that is just a
coincidence(!)

I do have a muc larger capacity PS in this box.. running a 600 W
Enermax...

Second, you appear to be trying to kludge a small
power supply to run a "server-class" computer.
If the case holds 10 drives, it should have come with
a power supply that has adequate wiring for 10 drives.
Or, to put it another way, if you are running 10 drives,
you should be using a power supply conservatively
rated (and wired) for 10 drives.

Are you trying to run the power supply up against its
max limits for 12v and 5v? Remember that the mother
board (CPU, etc.) is using *some* of that power.

I made certain the PS was large enough... (see above comment)

If I had a computer power supply that used 22ga wire
I would be afraid to even turn it on! I'll readily confess
to being more conservative than you. It was considered
good engineering practice since our grandparents' era.


14 gauge?? not a chance... 14 gauge is used in the
house wiring...


Until your posting, I had never dreamed that anyone
would use 14ga for "house wiring". I've never SEEN
(or installed) anything smaller than 12ga. Perhaps I
live in a part of the USA with more recent wiring
practice.

Look at the wiring in your light circuits... a lot of them use 14 gauge
in the lighting circuits... at least 12 gauge is used for the
receptacles...

I did state that the Molex connectors I saw go bad
were due to bad crimps... but you also must factor
in that the current carrying capacity of the wiring
actually goes down when you do put a connector
on. you raise the resistance.


"25 mOhms max" (0.025 ohms MAXIMUM) op cit


That chart also states that the capacities are under
ideal conditions.


If you have ever worked on much industrial equipment,
you would realize that the inside of even the warmest
pc box is heaven by comparison. We loose perspective
on reality if we think that computer cases are somehow
tough conditions. We have certainly revealed that we
live in very different worlds.

ever seen the in insides of a lot of cases?? packed full of dust
bunnies and pet hair.. Geez, I think some people NEVER clean the inside
of the case, and those fans pull everything right inside.

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

Tim Auton wrote:

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

"Quadrajet1" <quadrajet1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040106144638.04031.00002694@mb-m07.aol.com...

"Quadrajet1" wrote ...

this is a bunch of BS. IF they cancelled fire insurance
because of this, then every repaired TV, radio, stereo,
computer, monitor, etc... would cause people to lose
their insurance.

Taking something to a "professional" for repair is NOT the
same as hacking it yourself. Even if you know what you are
doing. Haven't dealt with many insurance adjusters, I take it?
I sincerely hope you never have to.

Hey, I didn't write that!!!

Then you have been hijacked. It was posted from YOUR
account at 6:58 AM on Monday, 05-Jan-04. You can see
for yourself on groups.google.com (it is message #7 in the
thread).


My newsreader shows Daniel L Belton as the author of what you quoted,
which is from the 6th, not the 7th message in the thread. Google
groups agrees.

Quadrajet1 should use standard quoting though, not that
business. It's non-standard (for usenet) so you are asking for
trouble. Every wondered why everyone else adds a character (usually &gt
to every line of a quote? Wonder no more.


Tim

Yep, I am the one that posted that post. I have no idea how
Quadrajet1's name got on the Google post...

 

[Tim Auton]

"Daniel L. Belton" <abuse@spam.gov> wrote:

Tim Auton wrote:
"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:
"Quadrajet1" <quadrajet1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040106144638.04031.00002694@mb-m07.aol.com...
"Quadrajet1" wrote ...

this is a bunch of BS. IF they cancelled fire insurance
because of this, then every repaired TV, radio, stereo,
computer, monitor, etc... would cause people to lose
their insurance.

Taking something to a "professional" for repair is NOT the
same as hacking it yourself. Even if you know what you are
doing. Haven't dealt with many insurance adjusters, I take it?
I sincerely hope you never have to.

Hey, I didn't write that!!!

Then you have been hijacked. It was posted from YOUR
account at 6:58 AM on Monday, 05-Jan-04. You can see
for yourself on groups.google.com (it is message #7 in the
thread).

My newsreader shows Daniel L Belton as the author of what you quoted,
which is from the 6th, not the 7th message in the thread. Google
groups agrees.

Quadrajet1 should use standard quoting though, not that
business. It's non-standard (for usenet) so you are asking for
trouble. Every wondered why everyone else adds a character (usually &gt
to every line of a quote? Wonder no more.

Yep, I am the one that posted that post. I have no idea how
Quadrajet1's name got on the Google post...

Quadrajet1's name wasn't on the original posting (on google or my news
server). It's was Quadrajet1's non-standard quoting that caused the
confusion, (s)he made it look like a quote from you was actually what
(s)he posted. If you looked at either your post or Quadrajet1's reply
it looks like the author of the post wrote the comment. Perhaps
Quadrajet1's newsreader is broken.


/me goes off to play his violin

Tim Auton, usenet detective.
--
The .sig is dead.

 

[Quadrajet1]

Perhaps Quadrajet1's newsreader is broken.

Perhaps it's this crappy newsgroup reader I have to endure while on AOHell.
I can't figure out how to change the quoting arrows. I could under the old
software, but this new OSX version doesn't give me the choice.

I have a PeeCee, but mostly it just sits and collects dust under my desk.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Quadrajet1" wrote ...

Perhaps it's this crappy newsgroup reader I have
to endure while on AOHell.

You have our condolences.

 

[J Corpening]

Thanks to all for commenting on my splice. I've had one person tell me
that I need a different power supply, so maybe that's the correct (safe)
way to go (I'm pretty ignorant on the topic of power). I build my own
computers, and this P4 Codegen 300-W switching power supply seemed
adequate when I had 2 HDD, 2 CDD, and 1 FDD, but I'd hate to kill things
now that I've added a third HDD with controller.

-jc

JC wrote:

Hey.

What's everybody's opinion on my splicing a couple of device power
cables onto one of the lines that comes out of my 300-W power supply, so

 

[J Corpening]

Belton (?) wrote:

There are many more factors involved in determining the
load versus capacity.

I guess that this is the key, but I don't know how to evaluate my p/s to
see what it can accommodate. Of course I shouldn't assume that a
"small" p/s can handle my "server class" machine, but I didn't consider
a 300-W p/s to be small (compared to my 145 of several years ago). I
saw the suggestion to not run [6] drives if the p/s doesn't have [6]
connectors. OTOH, splitters are sold and used (and endorsed) by many.
Also, although it's another issue, I've done a good bit of
over-clocking, so I know that production costs, etc., can sometimes
justify an under-rating by a manufacturer (and cynicism by a consumer).

So, then, how would one evaluate a 300-W P4 p/s to see if it truly can
handle more than what the connectors suggest (or is that a truly stupid
question)?

Thanks for helping,
-jc

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

Quadrajet1 wrote:

Perhaps Quadrajet1's newsreader is broken.



Perhaps it's this crappy newsgroup reader I have to endure while on AOHell.
I can't figure out how to change the quoting arrows. I could under the old
software, but this new OSX version doesn't give me the choice.

I have a PeeCee, but mostly it just sits and collects dust under my desk.

YUCK! I hated using AOHell's news reader, and the mail reader too...
that's why I quit using AOL over 6 years ago and went with a REAL ISP

 

[Quadrajet1]

YUCK! I hated using AOHell's news reader, and the mail reader too...
that's why I quit using AOL over 6 years ago and went with a REAL ISP

I also have RoadRunner, and use their newgroup reader, but it's buggy as
well.

As for AOL, up until recently I had a free account as a forum assistant. I
was one of the beta tester back in '86-'87 for the software. AppleLink PE back
then.

 

[Jim Adney]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:53:35 -0800 "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

Until your posting, I had never dreamed that anyone
would use 14ga for "house wiring". I've never SEEN
(or installed) anything smaller than 12ga. Perhaps I
live in a part of the USA with more recent wiring
practice.

Until I read this paragraph I was actually worried that I might be
disagreeing with someone who actually knew what he was talking about.

Apparently you're not familiar with the NEC (National Electrical
Code.) 14 AWG wire is code legal for 15A circuits everywhere in the
US.

14 gauge wire in a PC power supply? You gotta be kidding. I suspect
that if we check the specs for the Molex connectors we'll find that
they aren't even spec'd to fit wire that size. There's a PS right
here; the wire in it is 18AWG, UL 1007. Looks pretty typical to me....

I'll freely admit that this is the first time I ever tried to read
those little tiny letters on there.

OTOH, 18AWG is still plenty large enough to handle quite a few hard
drives.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Jim Adney" wrote ...

14 gauge wire in a PC power supply? You gotta be
kidding. I suspect that if we check the specs for the
Molex connectors we'll find that they aren't even spec'd
to fit wire that size.

If you had checked the reference supplied, you would already
know that they ARE specd for 14ga. You guys must be buying
cheap power supplies.

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

Jim Adney wrote:

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:53:35 -0800 "Richard Crowley"
rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:


Until your posting, I had never dreamed that anyone
would use 14ga for "house wiring". I've never SEEN
(or installed) anything smaller than 12ga. Perhaps I
live in a part of the USA with more recent wiring
practice.


Until I read this paragraph I was actually worried that I might be
disagreeing with someone who actually knew what he was talking about.

Apparently you're not familiar with the NEC (National Electrical
Code.) 14 AWG wire is code legal for 15A circuits everywhere in the
US.

14 gauge wire in a PC power supply? You gotta be kidding. I suspect
that if we check the specs for the Molex connectors we'll find that
they aren't even spec'd to fit wire that size. There's a PS right
here; the wire in it is 18AWG, UL 1007. Looks pretty typical to me....

I'll freely admit that this is the first time I ever tried to read
those little tiny letters on there.

OTOH, 18AWG is still plenty large enough to handle quite a few hard
drives.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

If you have a PS with 18 gauge, then you are pretty safe from
overloading the wiring in it... but a lot of the cheaper ones don't use
18 gauge, but rather use 22 gauge wiring...

 

[Jim Adney]

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:17:23 GMT J Corpening <jwcorpening@verizon.net>
wrote:

So, then, how would one evaluate a 300-W P4 p/s to see if it truly can
handle more than what the connectors suggest (or is that a truly stupid
question)?

I think the best you could do would be to examine each of the devices
in your system and add up the amount of 5V current each uses and the
amount of 12V current likewise. This is a lot of work, and I don't
even know if you can get all the info you might need for every
component. It also would be likely to give you a worst case estimate,
because a lot of your devices won't be drawing full current all the
time.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

 

[Jim Adney]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:59:00 -0800 "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

"Jim Adney" wrote ...
14 gauge wire in a PC power supply? You gotta be
kidding. I suspect that if we check the specs for the
Molex connectors we'll find that they aren't even spec'd
to fit wire that size.

If you had checked the reference supplied, you would already
know that they ARE specd for 14ga. You guys must be buying
cheap power supplies.

I visited the Molex web site today. I could only find one version of
this connector, and it was a rather unusual IDC version which I have
never seen before. It is only made in 16, 18, 20, and 22 AWG versions.

I just went back and called up the URL you mentioned. It is a scan of
a fax from Molex Singapore marked proprietary in 1994. It mentions, as
you indicated, pin compatibility for 14, 16, 18, and 22AWG, but not
for 12AWG, which you also insisted on. It seems strange that it skips
20AWG, so I'm left wondering if there's a typo there and that the
range should have been 16 to 22AWG, the same as their IDC connector of
the same style.

I'm also wondering what the point would be of using wire that is good
for 15A with a connector that is only good for 10A.

Frankly, I think it's odd that Molex would have on its web site a scan
of a FAX clearly marked on every page, "This specification contains
Molex proprietary information and should not be used without written
permission."

Can you point me to the page on the Molex web site that sends one to
this fax? I couldn't even find the section on these standard power
connectors.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Jim Adney" wrote ...

I just went back and called up the URL you mentioned.
It is a scan of a fax from Molex Singapore marked proprietary
in 1994. It mentions, as you indicated, pin compatibility for
14, 16, 18, and 22AWG, but not for 12AWG, which you also
insisted on.

My only citation of 12 AWG was for house wiring. Nothing
to do with the primary subject. At least not in the copies of
the messages I posted. If you think otherwise, please cite the
reference specifically, otherwise I believe you are mistaken.

It seems strange that it skips 20AWG, so I'm left wondering
if there's a typo there and that the range should have been 16
to 22AWG, the same as their IDC connector of the same style.

It was the only online technical info for that series that
Molex had linked. I agree that it is bizzare, but I have
always found the Amp/Molex websites difficult to
navigate. They have tons and tons of data, and I suppose
we should be grateful for whatever is online now. Their
paper documentation was even worse to "navigate".

Frankly, I think it's odd that Molex would have on its web
site a scan of a FAX clearly marked on every page, "This
specification contains Molex proprietary information and
should not be used without written permission."

Presumably, they gave themselves permission

Can you point me to the page on the Molex web site that
sends one to this fax? I couldn't even find the section on
these standard power connectors.

According to the PDF of the FAX, the product number is
"8980" and you can see all the info by looking up that part
number. The URLs are way too long/bizzare to post here.

 

[Daniel L. Belton]

Jim Adney wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:59:00 -0800 "Richard Crowley"
rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:


"Jim Adney" wrote ...

14 gauge wire in a PC power supply? You gotta be
kidding. I suspect that if we check the specs for the
Molex connectors we'll find that they aren't even spec'd
to fit wire that size.

If you had checked the reference supplied, you would already
know that they ARE specd for 14ga. You guys must be buying
cheap power supplies.


I visited the Molex web site today. I could only find one version of
this connector, and it was a rather unusual IDC version which I have
never seen before. It is only made in 16, 18, 20, and 22 AWG versions.

I just went back and called up the URL you mentioned. It is a scan of
a fax from Molex Singapore marked proprietary in 1994. It mentions, as
you indicated, pin compatibility for 14, 16, 18, and 22AWG, but not
for 12AWG, which you also insisted on. It seems strange that it skips
20AWG, so I'm left wondering if there's a typo there and that the
range should have been 16 to 22AWG, the same as their IDC connector of
the same style.

I'm also wondering what the point would be of using wire that is good
for 15A with a connector that is only good for 10A.

Frankly, I think it's odd that Molex would have on its web site a scan
of a FAX clearly marked on every page, "This specification contains
Molex proprietary information and should not be used without written
permission."

Can you point me to the page on the Molex web site that sends one to
this fax? I couldn't even find the section on these standard power
connectors.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

the one I find on the Molex site rates the connectors at 5amps@250volts.
http://www.molex.com/cgi-bin/bv/molex/home_init.jsp?x=y&BV_SessionID=@@@@1856209100.1073684370@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccceadckgffilhecflgcehedffgdfmk.0&langPref=english&sNav=/cgi-bin/bv/molex/nav/mxleft_nav.jsp%3FBV_SessionID%3D@@@@1856209100.1073684370@@@@%26BV_EngineID%3Dccceadckgffilhecflgcehedffgdfmk.0%26channel%3DProducts%26familyOID%3D-8470%26frellink%3DFeature+Search%26chanName%3Dfamily%26pageTitle%3DFeature+Search&mCnt=http%3A//www.newproduct.molex.com/ss.asp%3FFAM%3Dwb%26SORD%3D118%26FT_118%3D10515%26Search.x%3D52%26Search.y%3D11%26BV_SessionID%3D@@@@1856209100.1073684370@@@@%26BV_EngineID%3Dccceadckgffilhecflgcehedffgdfmk.0%26num%3D1301

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Daniel L. Belton" wrote

the one I find on the Molex site rates the connectors at 5amps@250volts.

http://www.molex.com/cgi-bin/bv/molex/home_init.jsp?x=y&BV_SessionID=@@@@1856209100.1073684370@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccceadckgffilhecflgcehedffgdfmk.0&langPref=english&sNav=/cgi-bin/bv/molex/nav/mxleft_nav.jsp%3FBV_SessionID%3D@@@@1856209100.1073684370@@@@%26BV_EngineID%3Dccceadckgffilhecflgcehedffgdfmk.0%26channel%3DProducts%26familyOID%3D-8470%26frellink%3DFeature+Search%26chanName%3Dfamily%26pageTitle%3DFeature+Search&mCnt=http%3A//www.newproduct.molex.com/ss.asp%3FFAM%3Dwb%26SORD%3D118%26FT_118%3D10515%26Search.x%3D52%26Search.y%3D11%26BV_SessionID%3D@@@@1856209100.1073684370@@@@%26BV_EngineID%3Dccceadckgffilhecflgcehedffgdfmk.0%26num%3D1301

Your "URL" doesn't work. (You didn't realy expect it to, did you?
What product number are you looking at?
As previously discussed in this thread, the part number for the
standard disk drive power connector pins is "8980". 10A per pin.

Now you can see what I meant by...
"The URLs are way too long/bizzare to post here."