Speaker overload (tweeter) protection using bulbs (repost)

George's Pro Sound Compan · Nov 16, 2008

No lamps in my meyers. setting up a system that both sounds good and
stays within the limits of the equipment used is NOT hard, it simply
requires one know what they are doing.

These days always having 'someone who knows what they're doing' is rare.
And even less likely with a small band starting out. So you need to make
equipment as idiot proof as possible.

a amp equal to the speaker rms
rateing will never burn out the speaker unless the amp is clipped hard
and long it will never exceed the excursion of the speaker unless
someone fires a gun a inch from a mic at foolish gains set your system
up properly and you have no need for these foolish lamps.

Either the amp cannot produce enough wally to damage the speakers or it
can - so the gunshot thing is rubbish.

Bullshit
excursion aand burning out are completely diffrent
a amp "can" put out several times it's rated power for a instant, enough to
throw a cone. been there already

But no speaker is designed to

handle DC for long - which is what you can get from a grossly overloaded
amp. To be certain that DC couldn't wreck the speakers would require a
*much* smaller amp than would otherwise make sense.

the lamp does nothing twards DC protection. I have caps on my tweeters that
do prevent DC

Or, of course, use an

amp which can't pass DC.

except when they fail.

create cheap
MI gear that is used improperly and you need to limit the abuse idiots
can administer, to save on the warrentte costs I have never heard a
speaker with lamps(I've owned plenty) sound as good as a speaker with
out lamps

Correctly designed the lamp should have little effect on the sound as its
cold resistance will be very low. Only when it starts to 'protect' will
the resistance increase.

the designers activate these lamps at such low power levels they are almost
constantly lit

again no lamps in my meyers, I do have alimiter but it is set well
above any threshold I pass music at. why buy a 1000 watt amp then limit
it to 300 watts, why not just buy a 300 watt amp?

Why are you using a limiter at all, then?

why not properly use a properly sized amp, why would you limit within the
range that your produceing in?
if it ain't loud enough, deploy more gear.
I have limiters for dumb fucks
true story from 1993 at one of my first shows with a guest engineer
like the guy who's talkback mic was draped across my console when he grabbed
it the cable spun the trim pot for the kick drum to max
next hit of the drum I had 7 18 inch speaker cones sitting in the feild
next day I got a limiter
more true lifes adventures

for when the "talent" throws a wireless mic against the wall, but the
limiter didn't stop Marlyn Manson from trashing a Midas console on me with a
cast base mic stand though

george

George's Pro Sound Compan · Nov 16, 2008

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gfp0ol$f7q$1@news.motzarella.org...

amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...

thats why I don't take direction from the audience
George

George's Pro Sound Compan · Nov 16, 2008

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gfp0ol$f7q$1@news.motzarella.org...

amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...

OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to play
distortion as clean signal
only when you exceed the heat dissipating ability of the motor do you burn
out a speaker

clipping does not damage speakers and distortion does not damage speakers,
its overheating and over excursion that damages speakers
distortion is one method of achieving overheating, but you can overheat with
a spotlessly clean signal as well

William Sommerwerck · Nov 16, 2008

"George's Pro Sound Company" <bmoas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5uidnQYGtNJMlL3UnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gfp0ol$f7q$1@news.motzarella.org...

amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...

OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to play
distortion as clean signal only when you exceed the heat dissipating
ability
of the motor do you burn out a speaker

Although what you say is true in terms of physics (the speaker's excursion
limits do not have a necessary relationship with its heat-dissipating
capability), in practice, audible distortion is a warning that you should
turn down the volume. William Michael Watson Dayton-Wright told me horror
stories of how he could not design a speaker with sufficient power-handling
capability to keep "deaf" listeners from overdriving and damaging it.

clipping does not damage speakers and distortion does not damage
speakers, it[']s overheating and over excursion that damages speakers
distortion is one method of achieving overheating, but you can overheat
with a spotlessly clean signal as well

The distortion I was talking about was the sort that comes from pushing it
into its excursion limits.

George's Pro Sound Compan · Nov 16, 2008

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gfp23v$qq4$1@news.motzarella.org...

"George's Pro Sound Company" <bmoas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5uidnQYGtNJMlL3UnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gfp0ol$f7q$1@news.motzarella.org...

the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to use a[n] amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a
level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...

OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to play
distortion as clean signal only when you exceed the heat dissipating
ability
of the motor do you burn out a speaker

Although what you say is true in terms of physics (the speaker's excursion
limits do not have a necessary relationship with its heat-dissipating
capability), in practice, audible distortion is a warning that you should
turn down the volume. William Michael Watson Dayton-Wright told me horror
stories of how he could not design a speaker with sufficient
power-handling
capability to keep "deaf" listeners from overdriving and damaging it.

clipping does not damage speakers and distortion does not damage
speakers, it[']s overheating and over excursion that damages speakers
distortion is one method of achieving overheating, but you can overheat
with a spotlessly clean signal as well

The distortion I was talking about was the sort that comes from pushing it
into its excursion limits.

I grant you all your points as valid, and bottoming(or farting) a woofer is
truely a horid sound
George

William Sommerwerck · Nov 16, 2008

I grant you all your points as valid, and bottoming (or farting)
a woofer is truely a horid sound.

Agreed. I've never heard it called that, but it's an apt description.

What gets you up so early on a Sunday? (I'm on the west coast, and have been
up since 2AM.)

George's Pro Sound Compan · Nov 16, 2008

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gfp34j$43p$1@news.motzarella.org...

I grant you all your points as valid, and bottoming (or farting)
a woofer is truely a horid sound.

Agreed. I've never heard it called that, but it's an apt description.

What gets you up so early on a Sunday? (I'm on the west coast, and have
been
up since 2AM.)

went out had a couple of dogfish 90 minutes and that set me down early(8pm)
some days your just not tired at 4 am
G

William Sommerwerck · Nov 16, 2008

What gets you up so early on a Sunday? (I'm on the west coast,
and have been up since 2AM.)

went out had a couple of dogfish 90 minutes and that set me down
early(8pm) some days your just not tired at 4 am

As in...

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Seasonal_Beers/Punkin_Ale/3/index.htm

George's Pro Sound Compan · Nov 16, 2008

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gfp7ag$acr$1@news.motzarella.org...

What gets you up so early on a Sunday? (I'm on the west coast,
and have been up since 2AM.)

went out had a couple of dogfish 90 minutes and that set me down
early(8pm) some days your just not tired at 4 am

As in...

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Seasonal_Beers/Punkin_Ale/3/index.htm

Same brewery but this IPA

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Year_Round_Beers/90_Minute_IPA/11/index.htm

Tony · Nov 16, 2008

I like to protect gear from whatever might come, so I like lamps and polyswiches. I would
be almost as happy with a frequency-selective limiter that could independently account for
the thermal and displacement limits of the tweeter, mid and woofer (with appropriately
different time constants - an even greater challenge), but the reality is that a lamp in
the tweeter circuit handles 80% of abuse, so it's cheap insurance.

But an interesting twist is that with the simple 2nd order HPFs I have been trying (with a
very high Fc, eg 8 kHz, to flatten CD horn response and match sensitivities), a lamp or
polyswitch in the INPUT to the crossover has the nice benefit of also seeing more MF, and
so potentially account for both thermal and displacement limitations. Admittedly the time
constants cannot be independent as would really be required, but it's still better than
having the lamp in the crossover output circuit, and a LOT safer for the amp, which
becomes UNLOADED when the protection operates, instead of shorted.

Tony

liquidator · Nov 16, 2008

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4fff15e00bdave@davenoise.co.uk...

But no speaker is designed to
handle DC for long - which is what you can get from a grossly overloaded
amp. To be certain that DC couldn't wreck the speakers would require a
*much* smaller amp than would otherwise make sense. Or, of course, use an
amp which can't pass DC.

Jeez...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Phil Allison · Nov 16, 2008