Something Different

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:36:27 +1100, Bazil <nospam@spamzfree.net>
wrote:

The Real Andy wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:34:08 +1100, MC <MC@nonexistant.place> wrote:

Wood will conduct lightning!, what are you
worried about!!.

Actually, wood doesn't.

Put enough volts across it and it certainly will.

Its not the wood thats doing the conducting.

So pray tell what it is that does the conducting?

And don't say electrons, because by that logic metals wouldn't be
considered conductors.

Me thinks you should go back to physics and chem 101. Or maybe better,
go back and start in say... year 10 or 11.

Bryan
Click to expand...
I thought air was a good insulator too. How does ligning travel
through air? I beleive the term is called ionisation.
 
McGrath <no@email> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
McGrath <no@email> wrote
Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
McGrath <no@email> wrote
Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
The Real Andy <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote
MC <MC@nonexistant.place> wrote

Its not the wood thats doing the conducting.

Yes it is.

You'll find it was the water that was
the conductor, not simply the wood.

Wrong with dry wood.

Dry wood is an insulator - not a conductor.

Depends entirely on the level of voltage
applied, just like with any insulator.

Well in the context of grounding a laptop,
Click to expand...
The thread had diverged from that.

wood is useless and would act as an insulator.
In the context of the 'bandstand' incident,
water was the conductor - NOT wood.

In both instatnces wood was/is not a conductor.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant to the general question about whether
wood, like any insulator CAN BE a conductor.

For the purpose of earthing - which is where this started,

Irrelevant to where it diverged to.

Somehow we diverged to the Geelong incident. The lightning
was conducted by water from the thunderstorm - not the wood.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant to the general question about whether
wood, like any insulator CAN BE a conductor.

wood has NO conducive conductive abilities.

Pity about the situation that it diverged to.

Which was the situation where water was the
main conductive substance - NOT the wood.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant to the general question about whether
wood, like any insulator CAN BE a conductor.

You said wood was doing the conducting - it wasn't.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant to the general question about whether
wood, like any insulator CAN BE a conductor.
 
The Real Andy <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:58:16 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:

The Real Andy <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:34:08 +1100, MC <MC@nonexistant.place> wrote:

The Real Andy wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:46:06 +1000, Mark Harriss
billy@blartco.co.uk> wrote:


SG1 wrote:


John wrote:


If you have ever wanted a wood computer or a wood laptop

http://www.gostyle.com/

seen something like this elsewhere, the only thing that worries
me is woods lack of earthing ablility.

That's what people are for????????


Wood will conduct lightning!, what are you
worried about!!.

Actually, wood doesn't.

Put enough volts across it and it certainly will.

Its not the wood thats doing the conducting.

Yes it is.

It is if the wood is wet. Take a look at any photo of a lab strike to
a dry peice of timber. The lighning travels around the outside of the
timber. Put a piece of plastic next to the piece of wood, and the
plastic will also produce the same effect. I beleive the term is
called flashover. The same phenomena affects ceramic insulators.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant to the general question about whether
wood, like any insulator CAN BE a conductor.
 
FruitLoop <Hyperactive@fruitloop.net> wrote
Colin Ž <tobyjug7@yahoo.com.au> wrote
FruitLoop <Hyperactive@fruitloop.net> wrote
Colin Ž <tobyjug7@yahoo.com.au> wrote

ps still think a file is created when cloning a disk ???

Its an option

That you had it completely wrong is immutable fact - not an option.

In Law Enforcement an image or clone file
Click to expand...
No such animal.

is created FYI .

Its an exact sector copy of the entire hard drive and
there are loads of 3rd party apps that do the same and
reproduce this on an identical physical or logical drive .

How did I have it wrong ? ,
Click to expand...
You claimed that an image file is always involved. You are wrong.

I think your wrong in your conclusions .
Click to expand...
Nope, as I proved with the example of an almost full hard drive being
cloned to the same sized drive, there is nowhere to put the image file.

Have another go on this most basic of topics .
Click to expand...
Its you that need to do that.
 
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:42:19 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

The Real Andy <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:58:16 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:

The Real Andy <will_get_back_to_you_on_This@> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:34:08 +1100, MC <MC@nonexistant.place> wrote:

The Real Andy wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:46:06 +1000, Mark Harriss
billy@blartco.co.uk> wrote:


SG1 wrote:


John wrote:


If you have ever wanted a wood computer or a wood laptop

http://www.gostyle.com/

seen something like this elsewhere, the only thing that worries
me is woods lack of earthing ablility.

That's what people are for????????


Wood will conduct lightning!, what are you
worried about!!.

Actually, wood doesn't.

Put enough volts across it and it certainly will.

Its not the wood thats doing the conducting.

Yes it is.

It is if the wood is wet. Take a look at any photo of a lab strike to
a dry peice of timber. The lighning travels around the outside of the
timber. Put a piece of plastic next to the piece of wood, and the
plastic will also produce the same effect. I beleive the term is
called flashover. The same phenomena affects ceramic insulators.

Irrelevant to the general question about whether
wood, like any insulator CAN BE a conductor.
Click to expand...
The point being dickhead? Its not the material that is conducting the
lightning, it is only assisting it. It is ionised air that conducts.
So the answer is no, the wood is not conducting electricity.
 
The Real Andy wrote:
I thought air was a good insulator too. How does ligning travel
through air? I beleive the term is called ionisation.
Click to expand...

Here: http://wvlightning.com/trees.shtml

"Electricity seeks the path of least resistance, and the moisture (sap
and water) inside a tree is a much better conductor than air. The
result: a tree provides a preferred path for lightning to reach ground."

Now for the trick question: what contains the sap and moisture?
The answer starts with a "w" and ends with a "d" and has four letters.

I expect you'll now try to play with definitions about wood moisture
content or something.
 
The Real Andy wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:42:19 +1100, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:

Irrelevant to the general question about whether
wood, like any insulator CAN BE a conductor.

The point being dickhead? Its not the material that is conducting the
lightning, it is only assisting it. It is ionised air that conducts.
So the answer is no, the wood is not conducting electricity.
Click to expand...
I was gunna opt out of this thread but I have to clarify a point or two.

The people under the bandstand were covered by the roof. Now it may have
been that the strike ionised the air all around, and inside, but I
guarantee that the wooden structure (mostly dry - it had a roof
remember) was also a path.

Have you ever seen a large tree split in half by lightning? What has
happened? Think about what forces are occurring in that tree to
literally blow it apart. What is it that has passed through the wood, to
cause, I assume, a large build up of gas?

I get the feeling that a few otherwise intelligent engineers, techs etc,
don't quite appreciate just how powerful lightning is...
 
Mark Harriss wrote:

Here: http://wvlightning.com/trees.shtml

"Electricity seeks the path of least resistance, and the moisture (sap
and water) inside a tree is a much better conductor than air. The
result: a tree provides a preferred path for lightning to reach ground."

Now for the trick question: what contains the sap and moisture?
The answer starts with a "w" and ends with a "d" and has four letters.
Click to expand...
some one's grey matter?
 
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3uivmeF11f7meU1@individual.net...
FruitLoop <Hyperactive@fruitloop.net> wrote
Colin Ž <tobyjug7@yahoo.com.au> wrote
FruitLoop <Hyperactive@fruitloop.net> wrote
Colin Ž <tobyjug7@yahoo.com.au> wrote

ps still think a file is created when cloning a disk ???

Its an option

That you had it completely wrong is immutable fact - not an option.

In Law Enforcement an image or clone file

No such animal.
Click to expand...
Check out * encase * dickhead . Its the only software used in courts in the
US .

You sure havnt got a clue fool .



is created FYI .

Its an exact sector copy of the entire hard drive and
there are loads of 3rd party apps that do the same and
reproduce this on an identical physical or logical drive .

How did I have it wrong ? ,

You claimed that an image file is always involved. You are wrong.
Click to expand...
Its an option and it * depends * on the software used . You only use True
Image , sure its does on the fly cloning but thats only one small option for
cloning drives , there are 50 products out there and your speaking about 1
thats not used by the professionals . Why take an image if its not a backup
and repeatable on the deployment .Also a file is much easier to audit for
backup retrieval , rather than a physical drive . This argument is typical
homeboy stuff.

I think your wrong in your conclusions .

Nope, as I proved with the example of an almost full hard drive being
cloned to the same sized drive, there is nowhere to put the image file.

Have another go on this most basic of topics .

Its you that need to do that.
Click to expand...
 
Some terminal fuckwit pom claiming to be
Mark Harriss <billy@blartco.co.uk> wrote
just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.
 
The Real Andy wrote:
The only time this can happen is when there is no possible way for the
lightning to find ground. What happens in this situation is that it
usually 'punches' or burns a hole in the material. Once again, the
material itself is not doing the conducting.
Click to expand...
Boffins claim a special camera filmed Mr Lightning getting around with
boxing gloves, matches and a tin of kero.

Lightning still follows the path of least resistance, and considering
that air breaks down at a much lower voltage than timber, the air will
always win.
Click to expand...
They want to put him in jail for breaking the rules.
 
I said wood wouldn't conduct as a grounding measure for a laptop case.

Liar, you said nothing of the sort in the quoting
you keep deleting and I keep restoring.
Click to expand...
"Dry wood is an insulator - not a conductor. For the purpose of earthing -
which is where this started, wood has NO conducive conductive abilities."

So where did I get the above from? I keep deleting to save myself having to
scroll through 'reams of puerile shit' - not to hide the facts :)

Likewise I said wood was not the conductor in the Geelong incident -

Irrelevant to whether dry wood does indeed conduct when the
voltage across it is high enough, just like with any insulator.
Click to expand...
Which has nothing to do with this thread - which was originally about the
earthing on a wooden laptop case and somehow spread to the Geelong deaths.

both are true, both are correct.

And both are irrelevant to the general statement you made.
Click to expand...
"You'll find it was the water that was the conductor, not simply the wood."

So where did I get the above from? I made no general statements, I replied
to the thread. Maybe you should re-read what has been posted? You continue
to make general statements stating wood is a conductor if the voltage is
high enough. Well buddy, in the context of this thread *that* is irrelevant.


You said wood could be used to ground a wooden laptop

No I didnt.
Click to expand...
Yes you did.

and was the conductor at Geelong

No I didnt.
Click to expand...
Yes you did.

- both are false, both are incorrect.

Pity I never made either statement.
Click to expand...
Better re-read the thread.

So explain to me me how I made a fool of myself?

You clearly said

You'll find it was the water that was
the conductor, not simply the wood.
Click to expand...
Which was correct. 'More fool you' :)

The fact that wood 'sometimes' is a
conductor is irrelevent in this thread.

Nope. I JUST commented on that stupid pig ignorant claim that

You'll find it was the water that was
the conductor, not simply the wood.

That is SOMETIMES true and sometimes it aint.
Click to expand...
Pity that the thread was about the grounding of a laptop using a wood case.
In this instance wood is not a conductor.

reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old
could leave for dead flushed where it belongs
Click to expand...
So why do you keep re-posting the stuff I cut? Bit hypocritical, isn't it.
 
Clockmeister wrote:


Prove it or shut up about it.
Click to expand...

From the Wikipedia definition for dielectric breakdown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength

"The maximum electric field strength that it can withstand intrinsically
without breaking down, i.e., without experiencing failure of its
insulating properties."


IOW when it's insulating properties fail it becomes a CONDUCTOR.


From the Werner PDF file on fibreglass ladders for the electrical
industry, some tests on the CONDUCTIVITY of wood and fibreglass
ladders:
http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/files/rc81.pdf

2. DC leakage current(in uA) as related to conditioning for 10"
electrode spacing, 80% relative humidity conditioned at 22° C.

Applied Voltage
Time Wood Fiberglass Wood Fiberglass
As Received 90 KV 90 KV 7.0 1.0
24 hours 50 KV 90 KV 48.0 1.4
48 hours 50 KV 90 KV 67.0 1.9
72 hours 50 KV 90 KV 120.0 2.4


As you can see at 50KV wood begins to CONDUCT, now what part of this
concept don't you understand?. Are you aware that lightning is higher
in voltage than 50KV?.
 
Mark Harriss committed to the eternal aether...:

Clockmeister wrote:



Prove it or shut up about it.





From the Wikipedia definition for dielectric breakdown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength

"The maximum electric field strength that it can withstand intrinsically
without breaking down, i.e., without experiencing failure of its
insulating properties."


IOW when it's insulating properties fail it becomes a CONDUCTOR.


From the Werner PDF file on fibreglass ladders for the electrical
industry, some tests on the CONDUCTIVITY of wood and fibreglass
ladders:
http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/files/rc81.pdf

2. DC leakage current(in uA) as related to conditioning for 10"
electrode spacing, 80% relative humidity conditioned at 22° C.

Applied Voltage
Time Wood Fiberglass Wood Fiberglass
As Received 90 KV 90 KV 7.0 1.0
24 hours 50 KV 90 KV 48.0 1.4
48 hours 50 KV 90 KV 67.0 1.9
72 hours 50 KV 90 KV 120.0 2.4


As you can see at 50KV wood begins to CONDUCT, now what part of this
concept don't you understand?. Are you aware that lightning is higher
in voltage than 50KV?.
Click to expand...
The voltage in a laptop computer isn't
 
"Mark Harriss" <billy@blartco.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43880546$0$23379$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
Clockmeister wrote:



Prove it or shut up about it.





From the Wikipedia definition for dielectric breakdown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength

"The maximum electric field strength that it can withstand intrinsically
without breaking down, i.e., without experiencing failure of its
insulating properties."


IOW when it's insulating properties fail it becomes a CONDUCTOR.


From the Werner PDF file on fibreglass ladders for the electrical
industry, some tests on the CONDUCTIVITY of wood and fibreglass
ladders:
http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/files/rc81.pdf

2. DC leakage current(in uA) as related to conditioning for 10" electrode
spacing, 80% relative humidity conditioned at 22° C.

Applied Voltage
Time Wood Fiberglass Wood Fiberglass
As Received 90 KV 90 KV 7.0 1.0
24 hours 50 KV 90 KV 48.0 1.4
48 hours 50 KV 90 KV 67.0 1.9
72 hours 50 KV 90 KV 120.0 2.4


As you can see at 50KV wood begins to CONDUCT, now what part of this
concept don't you understand?. Are you aware that lightning is higher
in voltage than 50KV?.
Click to expand...
I *know* wood or any insulator conducts if the voltage is high enough, I
wanted to see the evidence from that lazy bullshit artist Rod.

And 50KV is pretty low, really.
 
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3uruo8F12qol0U1@individual.net...
Damien McBain <askme@for.it> wrote:
Mark Harriss committed to the eternal aether...:

Clockmeister wrote:



Prove it or shut up about it.





From the Wikipedia definition for dielectric breakdown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength

"The maximum electric field strength that it can withstand
intrinsically without breaking down, i.e., without experiencing
failure of its insulating properties."


IOW when it's insulating properties fail it becomes a CONDUCTOR.


From the Werner PDF file on fibreglass ladders for the electrical
industry, some tests on the CONDUCTIVITY of wood and fibreglass
ladders:
http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/files/rc81.pdf

2. DC leakage current(in uA) as related to conditioning for 10"
electrode spacing, 80% relative humidity conditioned at 22° C.

Applied Voltage
Time Wood Fiberglass Wood Fiberglass
As Received 90 KV 90 KV 7.0 1.0
24 hours 50 KV 90 KV 48.0 1.4
48 hours 50 KV 90 KV 67.0 1.9
72 hours 50 KV 90 KV 120.0 2.4


As you can see at 50KV wood begins to CONDUCT, now what part of this
concept don't you understand?. Are you aware that lightning is higher
in voltage than 50KV?.

The voltage in a laptop computer isn't

Pity what was being discussed was lightning, fuckwit.
Click to expand...
You're a parody of yourself.
 
Clockmeister wrote:
I *know* wood or any insulator conducts if the voltage is high enough, I
wanted to see the evidence from that lazy bullshit artist Rod.

And 50KV is pretty low, really.
Click to expand...


I once made the mistake of trying to use once inch dia. black rubber
tubing to insulate some conductors with 47KV on them: after a few
seconds it begans to smoke heavily and start to pop: I assume the
rubber had carbon black added to colour it. The stuff was more of a
resistor than an insulator at those voltages.

Apparently hot glass is conductive from the sodium ions in it as well
: heat some up till it's red and then microwave it to see a lightshow.
 
Rod Speed committed to the eternal aether...:

Damien McBain <askme@for.it> wrote:
Mark Harriss committed to the eternal aether...:

Clockmeister wrote:



Prove it or shut up about it.





From the Wikipedia definition for dielectric breakdown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength

"The maximum electric field strength that it can withstand
intrinsically without breaking down, i.e., without experiencing
failure of its insulating properties."


IOW when it's insulating properties fail it becomes a CONDUCTOR.


From the Werner PDF file on fibreglass ladders for the electrical
industry, some tests on the CONDUCTIVITY of wood and fibreglass
ladders:
http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/files/rc81.pdf

2. DC leakage current(in uA) as related to conditioning for 10"
electrode spacing, 80% relative humidity conditioned at 22° C.

Applied Voltage
Time Wood Fiberglass Wood Fiberglass
As Received 90 KV 90 KV 7.0 1.0
24 hours 50 KV 90 KV 48.0 1.4
48 hours 50 KV 90 KV 67.0 1.9
72 hours 50 KV 90 KV 120.0 2.4


As you can see at 50KV wood begins to CONDUCT, now what part of this
concept don't you understand?. Are you aware that lightning is higher
in voltage than 50KV?.

The voltage in a laptop computer isn't

Pity what was being discussed was lightning, fuckwit.
Click to expand...
Take a look at the OP, it's clearly about a timber laptop case
 
Someone posted ----

From the Werner PDF file on fibreglass ladders for the electrical
industry, some tests on the CONDUCTIVITY of wood and fibreglass
ladders:
http://www.wernerladder.com/catalog/files/rc81.pdf

2. DC leakage current(in uA) as related to conditioning for 10" electrode
spacing, 80% relative humidity conditioned at 22° C.

Applied Voltage
Time Wood Fiberglass Wood Fiberglass
As Received 90 KV 90 KV 7.0 1.0
24 hours 50 KV 90 KV 48.0 1.4
48 hours 50 KV 90 KV 67.0 1.9
72 hours 50 KV 90 KV 120.0 2.4


As you can see at 50KV wood begins to CONDUCT, now what part of this
concept don't you understand?. Are you aware that lightning is higher
in voltage than 50KV?.
Click to expand...
Those figures show that wood exposed to 80% humidity at 22C for a period of
72 hours is more conductive than the same wood after only 24 hours.

The wood is absorbing moisture so it conducts better - the fibreglass does
also but not to the same extent.

The conclusion is that the water in the wood is doing the conducting.

Now, whose argument does that support, if anyones ?
 
Mark Harriss committed to the eternal aether...:

Clockmeister wrote:



I *know* wood or any insulator conducts if the voltage is high enough, I
wanted to see the evidence from that lazy bullshit artist Rod.

And 50KV is pretty low, really.





I once made the mistake of trying to use once inch dia. black rubber
tubing to insulate some conductors with 47KV on them: after a few
seconds it begans to smoke heavily and start to pop: I assume the
rubber had carbon black added to colour it. The stuff was more of a
resistor than an insulator at those voltages.

Apparently hot glass is conductive from the sodium ions in it as well
: heat some up till it's red and then microwave it to see a lightshow.
Click to expand...
Maybe the wires got hot and burnt the rubber?
 
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