Solid State Relays and EMI

[John Robertson]

Canada used to have a law that manufacturers were required to produce
schematics on the request of the consumer or repair shop...I wonder if
it is still in force - haven't thought of it for years....

John :-#)#

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:18:21 -0400, "Michael A. Covington"
<look@ai.uga.edu.for.address> wrote:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:mcugh0t0suen4qetn2ap442lpc1lq0m6fr@4ax.com...

Yeah, that's what happens over here as well. It's about time the
useless Greenies got off their backsides and pushed for legislation in
this area. IMO, there should be no excuse for any manufacturer not to
make service manuals available in paperless format via the Internet.
And that means making them available to everybody, not just their
business partners. I detest the condescending, patronising attitude of
manufacturers who pretend that by withholding technical information
they are protecting unqualified consumers from themselves. That should
not be their choice, nor their responsibility, it should be mine.

VERY GOOD POINT about it being a "green" (environmental) issue -- the best
way to keep stuff out of landfills is to fix it! The manufacturers don't
necessarily have service manuals, but they have *some* documentation, which
could be made available. Something about clearing up the safety liability
is another thing such legislation could accomplish.

(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Robertson" <spam@flippers.com> wrote in message
news:2arih05mrefi80cfb4nh2o0eqnrkvtnh1k@4ax.com...

Canada used to have a law that manufacturers were required to produce
schematics on the request of the consumer or repair shop...I wonder if
it is still in force - haven't thought of it for years....

John :-#)#

California has consumer lemon laws that require the makers to supply
repair parts for 3 or 7 years, depending on the cost of the appliance.
Trouble is, the makers keep one part in some warehouse somewhere, to
meet the legal requirements, and then price it so high that it's more
expensive than buying a replacement appliance!

Like, I'm gonna pay $200 for a replacement flyback transformer, when the
monitor was only a hundred and fifty new? Come ON! >:-(

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:18:21 -0400, "Michael A. Covington"
look@ai.uga.edu.for.address> wrote:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:mcugh0t0suen4qetn2ap442lpc1lq0m6fr@4ax.com...

Yeah, that's what happens over here as well. It's about time the
useless Greenies got off their backsides and pushed for legislation
in
this area. IMO, there should be no excuse for any manufacturer not
to
make service manuals available in paperless format via the
Internet.
And that means making them available to everybody, not just their
business partners. I detest the condescending, patronising attitude
of
manufacturers who pretend that by withholding technical information
they are protecting unqualified consumers from themselves. That
should
not be their choice, nor their responsibility, it should be mine.

VERY GOOD POINT about it being a "green" (environmental) issue -- the
best
way to keep stuff out of landfills is to fix it! The manufacturers
don't
necessarily have service manuals, but they have *some* documentation,
which
could be made available. Something about clearing up the safety
liability
is another thing such legislation could accomplish.


(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[keithdisco]

and
the captins cat was called hall
it only had 1 ball
its fravorate trick was to stand on its dick and fly shit up the chart room
wall


"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" <larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:608b6569.0408080321.579a93a2@posting.google.com...

Consumption: 12.5 W). These fans will be placed in a way that they
blow air at the sails, thus propelling the boat. I would like to sail
this boat for 5 hours non-stop.

I'm reminded of the Good Ship Venus:

The first mate's name was Carter
He really was a farter
When the wind wouldn't blow and the ship wouldn't go
They got Carter the farter to start 'er.

 

[keithdisco]

OR

'Twas on the good ship Venus
By God, you should have seen us
The figurehead was a whore in bed
Sucking a red hot penis
CHORUS
Friggin' in the riggin'
Friggin' in the riggin'
Friggin' in the riggin'
There's fuck all else to do

Alternative Chorus
Friggin' in the riggin'
Wankin' on the plankin'
Masturbatin' on the gratin'
There's fuck all else to do

The captain of our lugger
He was a dirty bugger
He wasn't fit to shovel shit
From one hold to another

CHORUS

The first mate's name was Morgan
He was a sexual gorgon
He'd stand on deck, a physical wreck
A-strummin' his upright organ

CHORUS

Now second mate O'Malley
He didn't dilly-dally
He shot his bolt with such a jolt
He whitewashed half the galley

CHORUS

The captain's wife was Mabel
She'd take what she was able
With the second mate she'd fornicate
Upon the galley table

The engineer was Andy
By God, he had a dandy
They nailed his balls upon the wall
For coming in the brandy

The cabin boy, the cabin boy
The dirty little nipper
He stuffed his ass with broken glass
And circumcised the skipper

The bo'sun's name was Crupper
By God, he had a whopper
Twice round the deck, thrice round his neck
And up his arse for a stopper

The third mate's name was Sandy
His tool was long and bandy
They stuffed his ass with molten brass
For pissin' in the brandy

The steward's name was Paul
He only had one ball
But with that cracker he rolled tobaccer
Around the cabin wall

The captain had a daughter
Who fell into the water
Contented squeals confirmed that eels
Had found her sexual quarter

The bo'sun's mate was Walker
By God, he was a corker
The dirty sod had been in quod
For dalliance with a porker

The OC navigation
Was keen on masturbation
He taught these joys to two small boys
And gave them constipation

The cook his name was Freeman
By God, he was a demon
He fed the crew on menstrual stew
And hymens fried in semen

The ship's dog's name was Rover
The crew they'd roll him over
And bang his cock on every rock
From John O'Groats to Dover

The boatswain's mate was Lester
He was a hymen tester
Through hymens thick he shoved his prick
And left it there to fester

'Twas in the Adriatic
Where the water's almost static
The rise and fall of cock and ball
Was almost automatic

'Twas on the China station
By God, what a sensation
For they sunk the junk in a sea of spunk
Through mutual masturbation

So now we end this serial
Through sheer lack of material
I wish you luck, with every fuck
Free from disease venereal


"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" <larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:608b6569.0408080321.579a93a2@posting.google.com...

Consumption: 12.5 W). These fans will be placed in a way that they
blow air at the sails, thus propelling the boat. I would like to sail
this boat for 5 hours non-stop.

I'm reminded of the Good Ship Venus:

The first mate's name was Carter
He really was a farter
When the wind wouldn't blow and the ship wouldn't go
They got Carter the farter to start 'er.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"keithdisco" <keithdisco@cwcom.net> wrote in message
newseDSc.13$9M3.8@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

OR
[big snip]

"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" <larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:608b6569.0408080321.579a93a2@posting.google.com...
Consumption: 12.5 W). These fans will be placed in a way that
they
blow air at the sails, thus propelling the boat. I would like to
sail
this boat for 5 hours non-stop.

I'm reminded of the Good Ship Venus:

The first mate's name was Carter
He really was a farter
When the wind wouldn't blow and the ship wouldn't go
They got Carter the farter to start 'er.

Yous guys are weird..

The only one I can remember (from my dad) was:

Have you ever seen Sally McWhorter,
She pisses a mightiful stream;
She pisses a mile and a quarter,
And you can't see her ass for the steam!

 

[Hal Murray]

h3
47
16V

14
100
6V

My guess would be 47 uF at 16V and 100 uF at 6V

You can get some sanity checking by finding a data sheet
for a similar part and checking that those values come
in the size cans that you have.

If you get lucky, you will find a data sheet that
explains the marking that you have.

--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my
other mailboxes. Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited
commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses.
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

 

[Michael A. Covington]

A dark band on an electrolytic capacitor is normally negative. To find out
for sure, power it up and use a voltmeter.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Bryan Sembello" <jazzyogurt@charter.net> wrote in message
news:174a8fb7.0408131530.728547ff@posting.google.com...

Hi! I have some surface-mount capacitors I need to replace. I don't
really understand the codes on them, despite looking up many sets of
SMD capacitor coding conventions on the net. Is the first number the
capacitance value or is the second number? If someone could help
decipher the values, I'f be very grateful. Thank you in advance.
One of them has this printed:

h3
47
16V

Another:

14
100
6V

With the low working voltages, they're most likely electrolytics, and
they are 47 uF and 100 uF.

 

[Rich Grise]

Michael A. Covington wrote:

A dark band on an electrolytic capacitor is normally negative. To find
out for sure, power it up and use a voltmeter.

Yes, and I've seen tantalums where the positive was marked, but his
description does sound like aluminums. But with the square base? It's
the first time I've ever heard of a cap with a square base. Are you
sure they're not transformers?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:58:16 GMT, Rich Grise <null@example.net> wrote:

Michael A. Covington wrote:

A dark band on an electrolytic capacitor is normally negative. To find
out for sure, power it up and use a voltmeter.

Yes, and I've seen tantalums where the positive was marked, but his
description does sound like aluminums. But with the square base? It's
the first time I've ever heard of a cap with a square base. Are you
sure they're not transformers?

---
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/ee227_eej_l_dne.pdf

--
John Fields

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:58:16 GMT, Rich Grise <null@example.net> wrote:

Michael A. Covington wrote:

A dark band on an electrolytic capacitor is normally negative. To find
out for sure, power it up and use a voltmeter.

Yes, and I've seen tantalums where the positive was marked, but his
description does sound like aluminums. But with the square base? It's
the first time I've ever heard of a cap with a square base. Are you
sure they're not transformers?

---
http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/ee227_eej_l_dne.pdf

--
John Fields

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:YVvTc.6159$SC1.938@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...

Michael A. Covington wrote:

A dark band on an electrolytic capacitor is normally negative. To
find
out for sure, power it up and use a voltmeter.

Yes, and I've seen tantalums where the positive was marked, but his
description does sound like aluminums. But with the square base? It's
the first time I've ever heard of a cap with a square base. Are you
sure they're not transformers?

I thought he was talking about surface mount parts.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9lsth0p82r0lcrk6v1citemsr0p11l29p8@4ax.com...

The short version: How does one suppress back emf switching
transients from a bidirectional DC motor?

Now for the full story.

I've been given an alternator regulator (B&C Specialty Products, model
LR3B-28) out of a home-built kit aircraft that occasionally trips its
circuit breaker, leaving the aircraft to run on its 24V battery. The
fault occurs when the landing gear is operated.

There are two protection devices in the regulator. The first is an
overvoltage detection circuit comprising a potential divider, voltage
comparator, and a 2.5V reference. The bottom end of the divider
connects to a tantalum cap which provides a 50ms delay (as stated by
the manufacturer). When an OV condition (32.50V) is detected, the
comparator activates a two-transistor latch which then turns on the
gate of a crowbar SCR (Teccor S6065K). This SCR trips the circuit
breaker.

The second protection device is a 1N6285A 33V 1500W Mosorb zener
transient voltage suppressor diode with a response time of less than
1ns. It is connected between supply and ground. I presume its function
is to clamp high energy transients and prevent dV/dt switching of the
SCR.

I don't know why the regulator trips the breaker, but I think the
solution involves suppressing the transients at the source. I don't
know much about the landing gear motor (I haven't even seen the
aircraft), but an auto electrician (and pilot) suggests that it could
draw 10A. AFAIK, the motor is bidirectional and is driven by two DPST
relays connected in a H-bridge configuration. I have a wiring diagram
for a 24V Taski floor scrubber that uses this same arrangement. It
shows an unidentified suppression device, drawn as two back-to-back
zeners, across the motor terminals. I'm guessing that an appropriately
rated Transzorb (eg 1N6284CA or 1N6285CA) would handle the transient.
Does anyone know of any better suppression devices or techniques? BTW,
all relays are fitted with snubber diodes across their coils.

Here are pictures of the regulator:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/comp_side.jpg
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/solder_side.jpg

FWIW, version LR3C of this regulator replaces the SCR's 1K gate
resistor with a 10 ohm resistor. This modification has already been
done (by others).

Those are decent pics of the PCB, easily seen. What kind of camera did
you use, or was it scanned in?

Sometimes the power wiring in autos (and other similar vehicles) gets
the currrent abruptly cut off, and the inductance causes transients and
ringing to subject anything connected to it to nasty spikes of energy.
I would try to do some low pass filtering with some RFI suppressor
sleeves and filter capacitors at the motor and relays. The snap-on
sleeves might be helpful, and are easily installed.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 01:44:24 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9lsth0p82r0lcrk6v1citemsr0p11l29p8@4ax.com...
The short version: How does one suppress back emf switching
transients from a bidirectional DC motor?

<snip long version>

Here are pictures of the regulator:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/comp_side.jpg
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/solder_side.jpg


Those are decent pics of the PCB, easily seen. What kind of camera did
you use, or was it scanned in?

I used a Kodak DX4530 5MP with macro.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Peter A Forbes]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:35:39 +1000, Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au>
wrote:

The short version: How does one suppress back emf switching
transients from a bidirectional DC motor?

<snipped>

- Franc Zabkar

Have you tried a decent sized Varistor? They are not polarity conscious and are
rated for AC or DC. Philips/BC Components do a good range and GE used to do
them, might be under a different name now.

Peter

--
Peter & Rita Forbes
diesel@easynet.co.uk
Engine pages for preservation info:
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
newsakvh0d0l0bpmo4h68fghkmlgnrdei2rnd@4ax.com...

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 01:44:24 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:


"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9lsth0p82r0lcrk6v1citemsr0p11l29p8@4ax.com...
The short version: How does one suppress back emf switching
transients from a bidirectional DC motor?

snip long version

Here are pictures of the regulator:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/comp_side.jpg
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/solder_side.jpg


Those are decent pics of the PCB, easily seen. What kind of camera
did
you use, or was it scanned in?

I used a Kodak DX4530 5MP with macro.

You mean you have to purchase an additional macro adapter to get it to
do closeups? I have a Nikon 990 that does macro without any
attachments. Just curious. Like this one:
http://www.photoprojects.net/index7.html

Click on the macro light. I'm not sure why he added the closeup lens,
since the camera goes down to .8" or 20 mm by itself. If it gets any
closer it'll have to wear a condom! )

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 03:35:28 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
newsakvh0d0l0bpmo4h68fghkmlgnrdei2rnd@4ax.com...
On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 01:44:24 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:


"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:9lsth0p82r0lcrk6v1citemsr0p11l29p8@4ax.com...
The short version: How does one suppress back emf switching
transients from a bidirectional DC motor?

snip long version

Here are pictures of the regulator:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/comp_side.jpg
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~fzabkar/solder_side.jpg


Those are decent pics of the PCB, easily seen. What kind of camera
did
you use, or was it scanned in?

I used a Kodak DX4530 5MP with macro.

You mean you have to purchase an additional macro adapter to get it to
do closeups?

No, the close-up capability is built-in. I'm just a point-and-shoot
guy, ie no gadgets.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Michael A. Covington]

We also buy excess electronics inventory:
http://www.4starelectronics.com/excess_solutions.html

Parts we have in-stock:
593R463A01
EP1S80F1508C6
4259286-502MFGA
1362S

(etc.)

Hmmm... Not one of those part numbers looks familiar. Are they house
numbers? Military specifications? Are you by chance in possession of a
large stock of *unidentified* parts with idiosyncratic numbers on them?

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"excessbuyer" <jake@4starelectronics.com> wrote in message
news:593a3f53.0408161311.4c4bcee4@posting.google.com...

4 Star Electronics is an Independent Stocking Distributor of obsolete
and hard to find semiconductors, ic's, relays, diodes, connectors,
resistors, mil-spec components, switches, displays, and all board
level components.

You can check stock and request quote online at:
[snip]

For more info visit our website:
http://www.4starelectronics.com

We don't mind the occasional hobbyist posting an auction or for sale,
but we consider it extremely rude when a _commercial_ entity uses this
_discussion_ newsgroup to spam their advertising. So post your
advertising to misc.marketplace or whatever it is, not here.

 

[Mark (UK)]

Hi!

There are a few XILINX FPGAs and some Cypress RAMs in there, but I do
admit, most of them are probably house numbered.

Yours, Mark.

Michael A. Covington wrote:

We also buy excess electronics inventory:
http://www.4starelectronics.com/excess_solutions.html

Parts we have in-stock:
593R463A01
EP1S80F1508C6
4259286-502MFGA
1362S


(etc.)

Hmmm... Not one of those part numbers looks familiar. Are they house
numbers? Military specifications? Are you by chance in possession of a
large stock of *unidentified* parts with idiosyncratic numbers on them?