Soldering newbie

[Fred Abse]

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 16:26:58 -0400, krw wrote:

We had special strippers that looked like long-nosed pliers
with a nick in the jaw (not the blade).

I still have a pair.

--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
(Richard Feynman)

 

[Michael Black]

On Sat, 6 Apr 2013, notbob wrote:

On 2013-04-06, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Yes, you can do it that way, or use the proper width chisel tip to
apply even heat and solder the joint properly by applying the solder to
the joint instead of the tip. We didn't have anything other than chisel
tips in the 100+ temperature controlled Ungar 'Loner' irons at
Microdyne. Even the .015" tips had a flat face so you could heat the IC
leg & pad instead of the solder.

Yep. At the very least, one should get an iron/station that has the
option of changing tips. I can still buy diff temp and tip profiles
for my ancient non heat-adj Weller.

I can no longer remember who made what.

My first soldering irons for some reason lasted a very shrot time. I
wasn't abusing them, but they were cheap and overheated and soon died. I
was too inexperienced to figure out why. The first was new, a birthday
present, the second was used, someone gave it to me with a new cord
attached.

Somewhere about then I was given a Weller soldering gun, useful because
tubes were still being used. That gun has lasted me all these decades, it
was used when I got it, a few scrapes and burn points in the cord. The
cord has a lot of electrical tape on it now, and some years back I put
some epoxy on some places where there were cracks (though no structural
breaks). Finally a couple of years ago it fell off the bench, and the
lower part of the handle actually broke off. I drilled some small holes,
used some wire to "sew" it back together, then covered with epoxy, still
working fine though rather ugly looking.

So I decided to buy a new one, but they cost a lot now. I wait, and find
one at a garage sale for ten dollars, in a case with some accessories,
though a somewhat later model. Then last year I found one identical to
mine, but in much better shape, in the original box, for five dollars.

But after those first two soldering irons died prematurely, I went with
the system Radio Shack had at the time, a handle, a heating element and a
tip. I think Ungar made them, but they were branded Radio Shack. That
was great, except I kept dropping the iron, and the tip would break off.
The ones I liked (there was a variety) threaded into the heat element, and
thus without the means of drilling out the rest of the tip, the heat
element was junk too. I slowly got better, dropping the iron less. That
lasted about 20 years, actually the handle is still fine. I replaced it
with a newer model, direct from Ungar, this time having a third prong in
the AC cord.

That ones still working. I actually made up a stand for it, complete with
a light dimmer to vary the heat, even though I've never found that feature
all that useful.

Then a few years ago, I found a Weller soldering station, the light blue
kind with the magnetic tip that kept things the same temperature. Only
five dollars (it was the same place I'd found a drill press vice a couple
of years before), too cheap to turn down. My first temperature controlled
soldering iron in all these decades. Oddly, the switch had gone bad, the
previous owner adding some wire to bypass it. I thought of various
schemes to replace the switch, it's square so I didn't think I had a
direct replacement, then thought of the AC power strips I'd found a box of
lying on the sidewalk one night. The switch form one was a fit, so I did
the transplant, and the Weller soldering station is like new.

It's kind of neat, but I like the Ungar, I'm used to it, I'm used to the
feel in my hand, so though I have both set up right next to each other,
it's the Ungar I turn on much of the time.

Michael

 

[Phil Allison]

"Fred Abse"

Phil Allison wrote:

Several of the joints don't have solder through the hole.


** Not very important.

Sorry, Phil, I have to disagree.

** Did you view the vid at all ?

Or just playing word games again.

Every quality control manual I know of, NASA, MIL, etc, in the case of
plated through holes, insist on complete
hole filling, plus a fillet each side.

** So fucking what ?

Huge numbers of commercial PCBs have empty vias.

Many PCB designs (mine included) don't have enough pad area to be
satisfactory without solder penetration.

** Did you view the vid at all ?

Snipping it out makes me think you did not bother.

The soldering and PCB in that vid are the topic here - nothing else.



.... Phil

 

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 08:58:06 -0700, Fred Abse
<excretatauris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 16:26:58 -0400, krw wrote:

We had special strippers that looked like long-nosed pliers
with a nick in the jaw (not the blade).

I still have a pair.

I have a few but I doubt that any of them are still aligned.

 

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 01:19:15 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 03:54:35 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Bill Bowden wrote:

So is a small solder pot where you can clean & re-tin the leads at
the same time. I used one for years to clean the pins on used ICs, and
old stock components. It's easier to deflux loose components than ones
in an assembly.


Remember the old wire-wrap boards? No solder, just simply twist the
wire around the square post and the sharp edges made a gas-dry joint.


Yes, and I remember looking for bad wraps, and having to solder wire
to hundreds of pins when the wire corroded. If you want real fun, try
replacing a bad IC socket where every pin has three levels of wrap, and
most are daisy chained. A repair that would take minutes on a PC board
can take days when you have to remove & replace over a hundred wires.

You clearly had incompetent people running the show. If properly
done, WireWrap is as (or more), reliable as soldered connections and
you don't daisy-chain the stuff. You should never have to pull more
than three wires to replace one. At one time mainframes were all
WireWrapped (millions of connections) and were *quite* reliable.
Three-high was a no-no, as well, though that was probably for other
reasons (impedance). The pins were shorter than some, designed for
two wraps only (but a third was easily possible).




Not all wire wrap was done with silver plated Kynar. Some was tin
plated, and the airflow through the equipment pulled dirty air over the
backplane.

Ours was all copper with Teflon insulation. The problem with Teflon
was cuts if you stretched the wire too tight when going around a pin
(bypassing it, not wrapping to it).

Some Chyron video equipment was made with cheap WW sockets. The
wiring was so tight that you couldn't do practical repairs. The only
thing I could do was press good machine pin sockets into the cheaper
sockets to eliminate intermittent. The sockets were packed so tight
that they touched any adjacent socket to cram a lot of chips into a
small space. Three hinged boards, in a small space. I'll bet the
factory wouldn't even try to repair it without cutting wire and
soldering.

That's not incompetent? I always use machined pins (Augat sockets and
boards).

 

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 01:27:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"Tom Del Rosso"

You need a chisel tip instead of that 'pointy' tip.

The point of a conical tip never makes enough contact.

This vid ( I posted earlier) shows how to use a pointy tip to solder
regular components like 1 amp diodes to a PCB with plated through holes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuw2ir2JKM8

The side of the tip is used and solder is constantly re-applied to the tip.


Yes, you can do it that way, or use the proper width chisel tip to
apply even heat and solder the joint properly by applying the solder to
the joint instead of the tip. We didn't have anything other than chisel
tips in the 100+ temperature controlled Ungar 'Loner' irons at
Microdyne. Even the .015" tips had a flat face so you could heat the IC
leg & pad instead of the solder.

Our techs insist on using pointy tips in the Metcals at work. The
first thing I do when I sit down at their stations is to change the
tips to chisel tips (unless I'm working on really fine pitch stuff).
Fortunately, the Metcals only take five seconds, or so, to come up to
temperature.

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 08:42:14 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

** Did you view the vid at all ?

Irrelevant.

I was commenting on a specific, unambiguous statement that you yourself
made here, in response to someone else's observation.

--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
(Richard Feynman)

 

On Saturday, April 6, 2013 3:42:14 PM UTC-7, Phil Allison wrote:
<snip>

Huge numbers of commercial PCBs have empty vias.

You don't know about tented vias either? They're _supposed_ to be empty.

The soldering and PCB in that vid are the topic here - nothing else.
... Phil

And the soldering is sub-standard as are the tools.

G˛

 

[Phil Allison]

"Fred Abse"
Phil Allison wrote:

** Did you view the vid at all ?

Irrelevant.

** Fraid it was very relevant.

I was commenting on a specific, unambiguous statement

** But SNIPPED out of context and hence misinterpreted by you.

Go fuck yourself - arsehole.

 

[Phil Allison]

<stratus46@yahoo.com>

Phil Allison wrote:
<snip>

** Bad boy !!

Do NOT snip the context !!

Huge numbers of commercial PCBs have empty vias.

You don't know about tented vias either?


** Then go changing it like that - fuckhead.

The soldering and PCB in that vid are the topic here - nothing else.

And the soldering is sub-standard as are the tools.


** No one gives a fuck about YOUR absurd, pedantic opinions .

Go fuck yourself - shit head.

 

[Jamie]

Phil Allison wrote:

stratus46@yahoo.com

Phil Allison wrote:
snip

** Bad boy !!

Do NOT snip the context !!


Huge numbers of commercial PCBs have empty vias.


You don't know about tented vias either?


** Then go changing it like that - fuckhead.



The soldering and PCB in that vid are the topic here - nothing else.



And the soldering is sub-standard as are the tools.


** No one gives a fuck about YOUR absurd, pedantic opinions .

Go fuck yourself - shit head.





Glad you can drop in now and then Phil..

Jamie

 

[Steve Gonedes]

"M. Hamed" <mhdpublic@gmail.com> writes:


< So do I need to clean every time before applying solder?


I use a yellow sponge. When it is dry I cut four parallel slices in it
with a extacto-razor knife. I saw this on utube. It seems to work well.

< I see the experts at work use flux all the time. My guess is that it's needed for 1-Lead free soldering, 2-Surface mount components with very small pitch?

I use 220 grit sand paper on all leads and then a quick wash of acetone
with cotton rubs; then apply flux with a toothpick. Not exactly an
expert at soldering, but the sand paper seems to get you to the
phosphorous layer .


< So you're saying tinning should be done after soldering the joint, not
< before? Could you describe how you typically tin the tip? Just touching it
< to the solder wire seems to concentrate solder on one side of the tip. If I
< wipe it with the sponge, I don't know if it stays there or not.


I like to keep the tip shinny. I use a spool of solder just for tinning
the iron .062 Oz (leaded). I used to have red-phosphorous sand paper. I
used to like playing around with that, but it is now illegal to use (?).
And please don't forget that acetone is flammable - maybe cleaning the
joints with propel- or methly- alcohol prior to soldering will help? Oil
from fingers and stuff can make a bad joint.


< On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 9:00:59 PM UTC-7, Phil Allison wrote:

** There are two common reasons why beginners have problems soldering:
1. They are using a shit awful soldering iron.

yeah, a shitty solder iron really ruins a good day. well said - from an
amateur looking at a bench. I like my 33 watt welder.

Have you tried using iso-butane or mapp gas? I absolutely love butane -
but the habbit is expensive. Maybe a I need a battery iron in my future.