Smart meter IR monitor...

[Don Y]

On 3/20/2023 9:28 AM, TTman wrote:

On 20/03/2023 00:36, Don Y wrote:
On 3/19/2023 4:14 PM, TTman wrote:
That might be done, now, with a second \"more secure\" key; but, then
there\'s the risk that the unit could be tampered with after installation
(no one visits the meters, anymore).

Or, an internal \"enable configration\" switch that is only accessible
when the meter is removed from the load center.  Thus, relying on the
installer\'s physical seal to safeguard against tampering.

Current smart meters in the UK have complex dual layer encryption and as
such are \'tamper proof\' by anyone.

I would imagine that to be the case in the US, as well.
There\'s a display on the meter so the user can\'t complain that
he can\'t \"verify correct billing\".  I can\'t see any argument
that would allow some tech-savvy users to go peaking at
other information that doesn\'t directly apply to their bill.

Solar installations, here, tend to have radio links from the
load center to The Internet to report cogeneration.  I suspect
the data goes *to* the utility, first, and then the user can
look at what the utility decides to provide.

[This seems to be the trend with all \"smart kit\"; the manufacturer
sits in the middle instead of letting the device serve up its own
web interface, etc.  The \"excuse\" being that the manufacturer
can make that information available to you, <wherever>.]

I can look at my solar generation in 2 places in real time ( UK). One is my In
House Display the other is the solar generation meter .

Here, you would view it on whatever device(s) through which you
can access the internet. I.e., on your phone while driving
to work.

 

[Don Y]

On 3/20/2023 9:26 AM, TTman wrote:

On 19/03/2023 23:12, Don Y wrote:
On 3/19/2023 4:08 PM, TTman wrote:
I\'m only interested in energy right now, this second. Not what happened over
the last hour.

You will only ever get an approximation of that.  The utility isn\'t
concerned with \"this second\" unless there\'s a way that it factors
into their tariff structure.  So, they won\'t design a meter
that intentionally provides that data.

Even their peak readings are \"over an interval\".


Thx, but you miss the point... Solar panel generation is very slow to change.
A smart meter in house displa,y showing \'instantaneous\' electric data(kW)
updates every 10 seconds.

You should have mentioned you were interested in cogeneration
in your original post. Most folks looking to instrument their
load center are interested in monitoring *loads*.

And, most cogeneration schemes already provide data on what
you are feeding back into the grid as it is the basis for
how *you* are compensated.

If it is \"very slow to change\", then the past \"few minutes\"
would be more than an adequate representation of the power
being generated, right?

 

[TTman]

Thx, but you miss the point... Solar panel generation is very slow to
change.
A smart meter in house displa,y showing \'instantaneous\' electric
data(kW) updates every 10 seconds.

You should have mentioned you were interested in cogeneration
in your original post.  Most folks looking to instrument their
load center are interested in monitoring *loads*.

And, most cogeneration schemes already provide data on what
you are feeding back into the grid as it is the basis for
how *you* are compensated.

If it is \"very slow to change\", then the past \"few minutes\"
would be more than an adequate representation of the power
being generated, right?


Correct

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[none]

In article <tv7g1i$33crt$1@dont-email.me>,
TTman <kraken.sankey@gmail.com> wrote:

On 19/03/2023 13:42, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23 AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Meters tally energy and not power.

If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2
kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?

It\'s an instantaneous measuremrnt, not \'per hour\' etc. So if anything,
kw/second.

An instantaneous measurement is no good. It varies on the tune of 50 Hz.

1.2 KWh averaged over the last hour is indeed 1.2 KW.

Groetjes Albert
--
Don\'t praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn\'t make spring.
You must not say \"hey\" before you have crossed the bridge. Don\'t sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

 

[Don Y]

On 4/10/2023 6:30 AM, albert wrote:

In article <tv7g1i$33crt$1@dont-email.me>,
TTman <kraken.sankey@gmail.com> wrote:
On 19/03/2023 13:42, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23 AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Meters tally energy and not power.

If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2
kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?

It\'s an instantaneous measuremrnt, not \'per hour\' etc. So if anything,
kw/second.

An instantaneous measurement is no good. It varies on the tune of 50 Hz.

1.2 KWh averaged over the last hour is indeed 1.2 KW.

It depends on what information you are trying to extract from the signal.
Looking at (near) instantaneous values lets you see when a load switches
in/out, for example. The magnitude of the signal can give a clue as
to what that load might be.

 

[Wim Ton]

On Monday, 10 April 2023 at 17:20:49 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:

On 4/10/2023 6:30 AM, albert wrote:
In article <tv7g1i$33crt$1...@dont-email.me>,
TTman <kraken...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 19/03/2023 13:42, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23 AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software..
www.avast.com
Meters tally energy and not power.

If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2
kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?

It\'s an instantaneous measuremrnt, not \'per hour\' etc. So if anything,
kw/second.

An instantaneous measurement is no good. It varies on the tune of 50 Hz..

1.2 KWh averaged over the last hour is indeed 1.2 KW.
It depends on what information you are trying to extract from the signal.
Looking at (near) instantaneous values lets you see when a load switches
in/out, for example. The magnitude of the signal can give a clue as
to what that load might be.

If it are pulses, these are usually visible light. It is printed on the meter what they mean, something like \"1000 pulses per imported kWh\". It is configurable by the supplier. Data over the IR interface is more complex: the DLMS meters are using a complex protocol, usually ASN.1 over HDLC over 9600 bps serial (see the DLMS \"Green Book\"). The data that you can access is what the supplier makes available without credentials. Or try the default password 12345678. If you are lucky, the meter has a \"Consumer Information Interface\",t that sends updated values every second.

 

[Don Y]

On 4/11/2023 4:23 AM, Wim Ton wrote:

On Monday, 10 April 2023 at 17:20:49 UTC+1, Don Y wrote:
It depends on what information you are trying to extract from the signal.
Looking at (near) instantaneous values lets you see when a load switches
in/out, for example. The magnitude of the signal can give a clue as to
what that load might be.

If it are pulses, these are usually visible light. It is printed on the
meter what they mean, something like \"1000 pulses per imported kWh\".

Our (as in *my*; not necessarily representative of the entire US) meter
provides a three segment \"Ouroboros\" display that only gives a rough indication
of rate of consumption; together with a stopwatch, you could approximate the
information available from the old \"spinning disc\" meters.

The user interface is a multidigit display that the supplier
(not manufacturer) programs per local tariffs to display the
values of interest. I suspect most users can only record
numbers and have little idea as to their meaning. The presence
of the display would only be to ensure a user (who is billed based on
the values that are being displayed) can verify the correctness of his
bill.

In many places, it was common for the utility to *estimate* your
consumption (to cut down on the cost of reading meters). I suspect
there are legally defined limits as to how often this can occur
to safeguard against the estimates becoming too skewed wrt reality.

It is configurable by the supplier. Data over the IR interface is more
complex: the DLMS meters are using a complex protocol, usually ASN.1 over
HDLC over 9600 bps serial (see the DLMS \"Green Book\"). The data that you can
access is what the supplier makes available without credentials. Or try the
default password 12345678. If you are lucky, the meter has a \"Consumer
Information Interface\",t that sends updated values every second.

Affixing anything to the meter semi-permanently will likely be prohibited,
here. It\'s not *your* property and such \"modifications\" would be seen
(naively) as \"interfering with the normal operation of the meter\"
(where \"operation\" applies to the meter\'s role in the billing process;
e.g., if a provider can\'t access the meter AS IF your kit was not
present, then it is arguably interference.)

Solar installations are handled by third parties. They provide their
own kit to allow the user to monitor *generated* power. (I\'m unsure
as to whether or not they can also monitor *net* power -- it\'s been
~35 years since I\'ve been involved in such devices). Typically, there
is a wifi interface direct from the solar kit to a wireless router in
your home. I suspect the kit reports to \"someone\" and *you* then
get information from that \"someone\" (i.e., without an internet
connection, you\'re SoL -- this seems to be the current approach for all
\"smart\" devices... the deliberate injection of a middleman in YOUR
datastream)