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Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
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On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23â¯AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
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Meters tally energy and not power.
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21â¯AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23â¯AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Meters tally energy and not power.
If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2 kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?
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Rick C.
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On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:42:38â¯AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21â¯AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23â¯AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software..
www.avast.com
Meters tally energy and not power.
If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2 kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?
My guess is they report a reading total in imitation of the way that multi-clockface meter was read. They just let it roll over into a new 4-6 decade energy consumption count.
Looks like there\'s not a whole lot of standardization. Cheapest initial cost wins:
https://www.emnify.com/blog/how-smart-meters-communicate
It\'s an instantaneous measuremrnt, not \'per hour\' etc. So if anything,On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21â¯AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23â¯AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Meters tally energy and not power.
If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2 kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?
On Sunday, 19 March 2023 at 15:56:25 UTC, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:42:38â¯AM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21â¯AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23â¯AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Meters tally energy and not power.
If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2 kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?
My guess is they report a reading total in imitation of the way that multi-clockface meter was read. They just let it roll over into a new 4-6 decade energy consumption count.
Looks like there\'s not a whole lot of standardization. Cheapest initial cost wins:
https://www.emnify.com/blog/how-smart-meters-communicate
I built a device that allowed me to read data from a non-smart 3-phase meter to the USB port
on a PC. It used an infra-red photodetector, a decoder chip and a cheap Chinese serial to
USB converter module.
John
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
On 3/19/2023 5:08 AM, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
There are two different approaches to this.
Some meters emit a \"pulse-per-unit\". The pulses are usually of fixed duration
with the time between pulses inversely varying with rate of consumption.
You would need to know the scale factor for the particular meter (just
like the old \"motor meters\" had a scale factor to convert disc revolutions
to consumption).
The other approach is a high-level interface -- usually via an optical
port (two simplex connections). This lets you query the meter for
data -- especially totals, peak demand rates, Time-of-Use data, etc.
As such, unless a small enough interval (for your use) can be
defined BY THE METER\'S INSTALLER, you\'re basically just \"reading the
meter\", periodically (i.e., you won\'t see the startup surge of a large
load coming on if it is smaller than the measurement interval *in* the
meter).
In each case, I think you\'d largely be at the mercy of the product version
(when I was doing this, 35 years ago, it was a wild-west of designs) and
the utility\'s configuration. If designing, today, I would lock up
access to the meter\'s internals on the grounds that the user can *read*
the meter based on how the display is programmed (yes, what you see is also
configurable per local tariffs)
I\'ve been tinkering with current transformers and Rogowski coils,
here, in an attempt to capture \"per branch circuit\" consumption.
But, that\'s considerably more involved than just watching the meter.
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23?AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Meters tally energy and not power.
If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2 kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?
søndag den 19. marts 2023 kl. 20.09.43 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
On 3/19/2023 5:08 AM, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
There are two different approaches to this.
Some meters emit a \"pulse-per-unit\". The pulses are usually of fixed duration
with the time between pulses inversely varying with rate of consumption.
You would need to know the scale factor for the particular meter (just
like the old \"motor meters\" had a scale factor to convert disc revolutions
to consumption).
mine is one blink per Wh I think that is pretty common
The other approach is a high-level interface -- usually via an optical
port (two simplex connections). This lets you query the meter for
data -- especially totals, peak demand rates, Time-of-Use data, etc.
As such, unless a small enough interval (for your use) can be
defined BY THE METER\'S INSTALLER, you\'re basically just \"reading the
meter\", periodically (i.e., you won\'t see the startup surge of a large
load coming on if it is smaller than the measurement interval *in* the
meter).
In each case, I think you\'d largely be at the mercy of the product version
(when I was doing this, 35 years ago, it was a wild-west of designs) and
the utility\'s configuration. If designing, today, I would lock up
access to the meter\'s internals on the grounds that the user can *read*
the meter based on how the display is programmed (yes, what you see is also
configurable per local tariffs)
afaik there\'s a few common protocols, some meters are locked but as I understand it the consumption data
just with a short pin code that can be bruteforced
I\'ve been tinkering with current transformers and Rogowski coils,
here, in an attempt to capture \"per branch circuit\" consumption.
But, that\'s considerably more involved than just watching the meter.
https://youtu.be/siJZYFCmU68?t=357
On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 06:42:35 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:28:21?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 8:08:23?AM UTC-4, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter and
convert them into kW?
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Meters tally energy and not power.
If the meter reports 1.2 k over the last hour, is that 1.2 kW or 1.2 kWh or 1.2 kWh/h?
Normally not. Maybe if there was a steady un-changing 1.2 kW drawn
over a period of 1 hour. And that WOULD be 1 kW-Hour.
But energy is an accumulation (integration) over time of instantaneous
real power, no matter how the instantaneous power changes over that
hour... IF you are limiting energy measurement to just 1 hour of
course.
You might draw 0.5 kW for 1/2 an hour and then zero for 15 minutes
and then 2 kW for the last 15 minutes which would also come out to 1
kW-Hour of energy.
boB
This is for monitoring solar array generated power. Slow rate ofOn 3/19/2023 5:08 AM, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter
and convert them into kW?
There are two different approaches to this.
Some meters emit a \"pulse-per-unit\". The pulses are usually of fixed
duration
with the time between pulses inversely varying with rate of consumption.
You would need to know the scale factor for the particular meter (just
like the old \"motor meters\" had a scale factor to convert disc revolutions
to consumption).
The other approach is a high-level interface -- usually via an optical
port (two simplex connections). This lets you query the meter for
data -- especially totals, peak demand rates, Time-of-Use data, etc.
As such, unless a small enough interval (for your use) can be
defined BY THE METER\'S INSTALLER, you\'re basically just \"reading the
meter\", periodically (i.e., you won\'t see the startup surge of a large
load coming on if it is smaller than the measurement interval *in* the
meter).
In each case, I think you\'d largely be at the mercy of the product version
(when I was doing this, 35 years ago, it was a wild-west of designs) and
the utility\'s configuration. If designing, today, I would lock up
access to the meter\'s internals on the grounds that the user can *read*
the meter based on how the display is programmed (yes, what you see is also
configurable per local tariffs)
I\'ve been tinkering with current transformers and Rogowski coils,
here, in an attempt to capture \"per branch circuit\" consumption.
But, that\'s considerably more involved than just watching the meter.
I\'m only interested in energy right now, this second. Not what happened over
the last hour.
I\'ve been tinkering with current transformers and Rogowski coils,
here, in an attempt to capture \"per branch circuit\" consumption.
But, that\'s considerably more involved than just watching the meter.
This is for monitoring solar array generated power. Slow rate of change..Emlite
make a meter that has an IR interface ( fitted in my installation.)
On 3/19/2023 12:55 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
søndag den 19. marts 2023 kl. 20.09.43 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
On 3/19/2023 5:08 AM, TTman wrote:
Anyone know of a kit that will read the IR pulses from a smart meter
and
convert them into kW?
There are two different approaches to this.
Some meters emit a \"pulse-per-unit\". The pulses are usually of fixed
duration
with the time between pulses inversely varying with rate of consumption.
You would need to know the scale factor for the particular meter (just
like the old \"motor meters\" had a scale factor to convert disc
revolutions
to consumption).
mine is one blink per Wh I think that is pretty common
Ours is a 3 segment LCD bargraph. Segments grow from the left to right;
then are consumed in similar fashion when all three are active. I.e.,
it\'s hard to monitor.
The other approach is a high-level interface -- usually via an optical
port (two simplex connections). This lets you query the meter for
data -- especially totals, peak demand rates, Time-of-Use data, etc.
As such, unless a small enough interval (for your use) can be
defined BY THE METER\'S INSTALLER, you\'re basically just \"reading the
meter\", periodically (i.e., you won\'t see the startup surge of a large
load coming on if it is smaller than the measurement interval *in* the
meter).
In each case, I think you\'d largely be at the mercy of the product
version
(when I was doing this, 35 years ago, it was a wild-west of designs) and
the utility\'s configuration. If designing, today, I would lock up
access to the meter\'s internals on the grounds that the user can *read*
the meter based on how the display is programmed (yes, what you see
is also
configurable per local tariffs)
afaik there\'s a few common protocols, some meters are locked but as I
understand it the consumption data
just with a short pin code that can be bruteforced
Back in the day, the meter design had to allow the utility to program
the meter for the local tariffs in play. So, ToU periods, demand
intervals,
off-peak hours, etc. all had to be configurable.
That might be done, now, with a second \"more secure\" key; but, then
there\'s the risk that the unit could be tampered with after installation
(no one visits the meters, anymore).
Or, an internal \"enable configration\" switch that is only accessible
when the meter is removed from the load center. Thus, relying on the
installer\'s physical seal to safeguard against tampering.
That might be done, now, with a second \"more secure\" key; but, then
there\'s the risk that the unit could be tampered with after installation
(no one visits the meters, anymore).
Or, an internal \"enable configration\" switch that is only accessible
when the meter is removed from the load center. Thus, relying on the
installer\'s physical seal to safeguard against tampering.
Current smart meters in the UK have complex dual layer encryption and as such
are \'tamper proof\' by anyone.
Thx, but you miss the point... Solar panel generation is very slow toOn 3/19/2023 4:08 PM, TTman wrote:
I\'m only interested in energy right now, this second. Not what
happened over the last hour.
You will only ever get an approximation of that. The utility isn\'t
concerned with \"this second\" unless there\'s a way that it factors
into their tariff structure. So, they won\'t design a meter
that intentionally provides that data.
Even their peak readings are \"over an interval\".
On 3/19/2023 4:14 PM, TTman wrote:
That might be done, now, with a second \"more secure\" key; but, then
there\'s the risk that the unit could be tampered with after installation
(no one visits the meters, anymore).
Or, an internal \"enable configration\" switch that is only accessible
when the meter is removed from the load center. Thus, relying on the
installer\'s physical seal to safeguard against tampering.
Current smart meters in the UK have complex dual layer encryption and
as such are \'tamper proof\' by anyone.
I would imagine that to be the case in the US, as well.
There\'s a display on the meter so the user can\'t complain that
he can\'t \"verify correct billing\". I can\'t see any argument
that would allow some tech-savvy users to go peaking at
other information that doesn\'t directly apply to their bill.
Solar installations, here, tend to have radio links from the
load center to The Internet to report cogeneration. I suspect
the data goes *to* the utility, first, and then the user can
look at what the utility decides to provide.
[This seems to be the trend with all \"smart kit\"; the manufacturer
sits in the middle instead of letting the device serve up its own
web interface, etc. The \"excuse\" being that the manufacturer
can make that information available to you, <wherever>.]
They do, but it\'s in the garage...I want to see the data in my lounge...On 3/19/2023 4:10 PM, TTman wrote:
I\'ve been tinkering with current transformers and Rogowski coils,
here, in an attempt to capture \"per branch circuit\" consumption.
But, that\'s considerably more involved than just watching the meter.
This is for monitoring solar array generated power. Slow rate of
change..Emlite make a meter that has an IR interface ( fitted in my
installation.)
I\'d be surprised if they *didn\'t* make this information available
to the homeowner/arrayowner.
Have you contacted the vendor/installer?