Slinky Question

"analog" <analog@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:4070615F.181E549B@ieee.org...
| Hi all,
|
| A circuit simulator oriented toward switching power conversion cannot
| be considered complete without a non linear inductor model as part of
| the package. This is absolutely vital for simulating the mundane such
| as variations in core loss with operating conditions as well as the
| more exotic such as magamps and ferroresonant transformers.
|
| Toward this end I have recently been amusing myself trying to create
| a good non linear inductor model for LTspice. As with other similar
| models, it integrates inductor voltage and applies it to a bi-
| directional zener like impedance to model saturation. In addition it
| may have the following new(?) and useful features:
|
| + True dc and ac hysteresis effects
| + Options for modeling both round and square loop materials
| (using fast LTspice specific features)
| + A simple way of modeling the addition of a core gap
| + Adjustable frequency dependent losses
|
| Although the qualitative results of this model have a satisfying
| look and feel about them, the model is preliminary and has not been
| quantitatively verified. Also, I'm not sure what the friendliest
| parameter format to present to the user would be (how best to
| relate core and material parameters to input terminal parameters).
| Should turns and core geometry be part of the model so that the
| internal nodes proportional to B and H could be scaled and related
| to material parameters (and be made available as outputs)?
|
| Ideas, comments? -- analog
|

Nice...... I did this once as a rip off from something downloaded from
Intusoft. Very much simpler though and looking at yours tells me what a
novice I am when it comes to Spice.

One thing I did do, which may be of interest, is instead of using diodes
to model saturation I used parallel inverse voltage controlled switches
with what in LTspice would be negative hysteresis for a smooth
logaritmic transition(?)

Setting the threshold would set the saturation level. Setting the
hysteresis would determine the sharpness of saturation. It might be
intuitively better than using diodes.

DNA
 
Hi!

Back from the weekend I found some reactions to my previous posting that
filled me with mixed emotions.
So please, let me make some things clear:

"Christian Zinner" wrote in
news:406e7902$0$18702$3b214f66@tunews.univie.ac.at...
It can take Gerber as input for drill import, but currently not for the
conduction tracks. As I see from some other feedback, I decide to add this
functionality very soon. I personally prefer postscript. Are there still
so
many pcb layout programs out there that rely on gerber only?
I think that the last sentence lead to a total misunderstanding. I must
state here, that english is not my first language and this may be the reason
for that.
It is clear for me that almost every pcb layout software supports gerber
output. My question was if there are still many of them that don't offer
*any other* output file format.
For example, if a CAD system supports printing of layouts to a printer under
windows, you can select a postscript printer driver of your choice, print
into a file and it should be no problem to interface to PlatinCnc.
And, as I said already, I plan to add a gerber import filter into the
application soon.

Generally I know what I'm talking about, so please let's keep peace.
I'm grateful for any constructive comment, I think that's for what such
newsgroups are for.

Regards,
--
Christian Zinner
Vienna, Austria

Email: chris@PlatinCnc.com
Web: http://www.PlatinCnc.com
 
analog wrote:
Hi all,

A circuit simulator oriented toward switching power conversion cannot
be considered complete without a non linear inductor model as part of
the package. This is absolutely vital for simulating the mundane such
as variations in core loss with operating conditions as well as the
more exotic such as magamps and ferroresonant transformers.

Toward this end I have recently been amusing myself trying to create
a good non linear inductor model for LTspice. As with other similar
models, it integrates inductor voltage and applies it to a bi-
directional zener like impedance to model saturation.
Why not use the tanh() function for limiting, its a bit more (spice)
general purpose than max(). It saves using the diodes as well.

In addition it
may have the following new(?) and useful features:

+ True dc and ac hysteresis effects
+ Options for modeling both round and square loop materials
(using fast LTspice specific features)
+ A simple way of modeling the addition of a core gap
+ Adjustable frequency dependent losses
Ahmmm. PSpice already has non-linear, hysteretic cores. I was under the
impression that LTSpice already supported this as it is supposed to be
100% compatible.

Although the qualitative results of this model have a satisfying
look and feel about them, the model is preliminary and has not been
quantitatively verified. Also, I'm not sure what the friendliest
parameter format to present to the user would be (how best to
relate core and material parameters to input terminal parameters).
Should turns and core geometry be part of the model so that the
internal nodes proportional to B and H could be scaled and related
to material parameters (and be made available as outputs)?

Ideas, comments? -- analog
The BH loop looks the right shape. At the moment I have no idea whether
this time domain response is compatible with what the small signal ac
response does. Its a bit complicated to see off hand.

What's the mechanism for the dc hysteresis? I dont fel that inclined to
work out the details from scratch.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"quotes with no meaning, are meaningless" - Kevin Aylward.
 
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:15:35 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

#If you place a Slinky on an escalator, will it go forever ?:)
#
# ...Jim Thompson

No. But this newsgroup thread will!
 
"analog" <analog@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:4070615F.181E549B@ieee.org...
| Hi all,
|
| A circuit simulator oriented toward switching power conversion cannot
| be considered complete without a non linear inductor model as part of
| the package. This is absolutely vital for simulating the mundane such
| as variations in core loss with operating conditions as well as the
| more exotic such as magamps and ferroresonant transformers.
|

Zurp.....

Using SI units I get this for an ideal inductor model. I'm not sure it's
absolutely vital though.

DNA

Version 4
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TEXT 512 480 Left 0 ;B3 V=Ui/(1+G*Ui/Le) G<<Le
 
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:09:06 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com>
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 03:31:58 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:

Mjolinor wrote:

Tribes specialized into warriors, workers, farmers, wives. The
warriors protected the rest of the tribe, were honored for it, and got
first pick of the food and the women. But the guy who made arrows had
an important place, too.
----------------------
Tribes didn't specialize so distinctly, there were craftsmen, but
they took it up with age and experience, and it was less formal.


Um, how do you know that?
John
--------------
I was there.
Steve
Sometimes I get the feeling you still are.

Have a good weekend!

John
 
John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:09:06 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 03:31:58 GMT, "R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com
wrote:

Mjolinor wrote:

Tribes specialized into warriors, workers, farmers, wives. The
warriors protected the rest of the tribe, were honored for it, and got
first pick of the food and the women. But the guy who made arrows had
an important place, too.
----------------------
Tribes didn't specialize so distinctly, there were craftsmen, but
they took it up with age and experience, and it was less formal.

Um, how do you know that?
John
--------------
I was there.
Steve

Sometimes I get the feeling you still are.
John
-----------------
Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.


Have a good weekend!
-------------
You too.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public
 
Ben Bradley wrote:
info@pad2pad.com (Pad2Pad) wrote:
You can now get custom PCBs online - with components! At the new
pad2pad.com you can easily design, price, and order custom printed
[snip]

Oh how interesting, this looks like a direct competitor to
http://www.expresspcb.com which has offered a similar service (but
without any boardstuffing) for several years now.
[snip]

Has anyone given Pad2Pad a try yet? I've installed the software and
checked it out and it seems pretty decent for the kind of simple hobby
work I do. Much more polished than Eagle, which desperately needs some
UI polish.

The prices are pretty reasonable, much better than most of the domestic
board houses, but still not as good as Olimex. But being closer is
enough to get me to give them a try.

Any experiances yet?
DK
 
"David Knaack" <davidknaack@cox.net> wrote in message
news:BDHhc.5050$pg.2542@okepread05...
Has anyone given Pad2Pad a try yet? I've installed the software and
checked it out and it seems pretty decent for the kind of simple hobby
work I do. Much more polished than Eagle, which desperately needs some
UI polish.
Eagle is certainly lacking in that department. However, Pad2Pad didn't look
like it had any facility for checking against a netlist? This quickly
becomes a limiting factor, even with a dozen or so components. One really
wants to be able to input a schematic and see whether the nets on the PCB
match it.
 
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:58:56 -0700, Peter Bennett
<peterbb@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:08:23 +0200, Orange <orangeami@mail.ru> wrote:


AutoCad is too complex, I dont have time to learn it.

For simple drawings, ACad is fairly simple - you don't have to worry
about all the fancy stuff for your job. However, ACad is probably too
expensive - there are smaller, simpler and less expensive CAD programs
available - I just mentioned ACad because I use it.
OK, I'll try ACad

The program
should be able to do some small calculations like subtract 3,7 from
signal level if there is a spliter, and so on.

I doubt very much if you will find a drawing program that will
automagically do such calculations (although there may be specialized
programs, or ACad add-ons, for the cable TV industry that will do
this)
But thos calculations are sooo simple, just subtraction and maybe
couple multiplying. I have been doing them with calculator, but it
takes too much time. Maybe I can link for example MathCAD and ACad
using OLE? (though I'd prefer to use just ACad)
 
I've used Eagle and Olimex for three boards so far, and other members of our group
(tcrobots.org) have used Eagle for more projects.

I can't see any of us using a system that doesn;t start with schematic entry
and electrical design rules checking.

I haven't really had problems with Eagle's user interface either, so I can't
comment on it.

I did a project using 8 PICs and 2 motor drivers to implement a 4-channel
PID motor control board, and got two PCBs for $28 from Olimex.
http://bobodyne.com/web-docs/robots/Trippy/Board/index.html

Eagle and Olimex worked perfectly.

(Also, I'm a Linux guy, so Windows software is unlikely to cut it for me)


--
- Alan Kilian <alank(at)timelogic.com>
Director of Bioinformatics, TimeLogic Corporation 763-449-7622
 
However, Pad2Pad didn't look like it had any facility for checking against a
netlist? This quickly becomes a limiting factor, even with a dozen or so
components. One really wants to be able to input a schematic and see whether > the nets on the PCB match it.
Dear David,

Pad2Pad does support checking of your design against netlist (Board |
Design Rule Check), but in current version you have to input netlist
manually (either by using Logical Connections tool or in Nets | Edit
Nets dialog). Import of netlists will be introduced in posterior
versions.

Sincerely,
Pad2Pad customer support.
 
"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" <larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:608b6569.0404211006.18314ea3@posting.google.com...
I got the OPTREX DMF 50081 now.

This isn't a color LCD.

This isn't a serious project, and he has no intention of building it
(not to mention probably no ability to do so), hence it is no matter.
He also will never get a woman. Not in this Universe, anyway. That's how we
can tell it's a bogus post.

Ken
 
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:42:07 +0100, in sci.electronics.cad you wrote:

Orange wrote:
Is it possible to make a model of cable tv network (coaxial part) in
MatLab?

Yes. Obviously. However, probably not the best method.

I would like to draw amplifiers, splitters and lines so that
it could calculate signal level at certain points. Is any other
program better for that?

Any spice can analyse transmission lines. Hint: SuperSpice:)

OK, thanks Kevin.
SuperSpice is for very precise analysis, so it does seem a bit
complicated for me. I just need some very simple math like this:
signal at home=signal at spliter-3,7dB, etc. and it should be able to
draw spliter as rectangle. The only complex problem would be that line
attenuation depends lineary of its length, but that is not necessary.

Can you tell me how to do it in SuperSpice or if there is a link
explaining it?
 
David Knaack <davidknaack@cox.net> wrote ...
Has anyone given Pad2Pad a try yet? I've installed the software and
checked it out and it seems pretty decent for the kind of simple hobby
work I do. Much more polished than Eagle, which desperately needs some
UI polish.
Looks ok, but like ExpressPCB it looks like it is a program that is
designed to only be used with that companies manafucturing facilities.
In other words, there is no standard Gerber file generation so that
you can take your design to other board houses. You are locked into
using Pad2Pad for your board manufacturing and would have to generate
the artwork a second time on another package if you wanted to go
somewhere else.

At least that is what it looks like to me with the few minutes I spent
looking at it. If I am mistaken, I am sure someone will quickly
correct me.

P.
 
Dear Alan and Walter,

Pad2Pad does support design rule check based on netlist (choose Board
| Design Rule Check). Currently netlists can be created graphically by
using the Logical Connection tool, or specified in Nets | Edit Nets
dialog, or created automatically from traces. In one of the nearest
updates Pad2Pad will also support import of netlists from other PCB
design applications.

Sincerely,
Pad2Pad customer support.
www.pad2pad.com
 
I just want to draw routes of cables...in colour
Is there such program?
Orange
Sodopodi is a vector-based drawing program for Unix and Windows.
Gratis and libre under the GNU General Public License.
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:VpZ_evUAVZQJ:www.software-x.com/software/vector-based.html+free-vector-based-drawing+Sodipodi+KIllustrator+GNU+Windows

I haven't used it. If you do, I'd appreciate a report.
 
"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message news:<vTNhc.2301$_s.63530@news.xtra.co.nz>...
"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" <larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:608b6569.0404211006.18314ea3@posting.google.com...
I got the OPTREX DMF 50081 now.

This isn't a color LCD.

This isn't a serious project, and he has no intention of building it
(not to mention probably no ability to do so), hence it is no matter.

He also will never get a woman. Not in this Universe, anyway. That's how we
can tell it's a bogus post.

Ken
I would go through the trouble if the woman looks like Milla Jovovich :)
 
"Will" <wv9557@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4a885870.0404221647.60b5d0de@posting.google.com...
"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news:<vTNhc.2301$_s.63530@news.xtra.co.nz>...
"Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" <larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:608b6569.0404211006.18314ea3@posting.google.com...
I got the OPTREX DMF 50081 now.

This isn't a color LCD.

This isn't a serious project, and he has no intention of building it
(not to mention probably no ability to do so), hence it is no matter.

He also will never get a woman. Not in this Universe, anyway. That's how
we
can tell it's a bogus post.

Ken

I would go through the trouble if the woman looks like Milla Jovovich :)
You have low standards, IMO.

Ken
 
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:17:28 +0200, Orange <orangeami@mail.ru> wrote:

[request re CAD program to draw RF distribution system, and calculate
signal levels]

But thos calculations are sooo simple, just subtraction and maybe
couple multiplying. I have been doing them with calculator, but it
takes too much time. Maybe I can link for example MathCAD and ACad
using OLE? (though I'd prefer to use just ACad)
Yes, the calculations are simple - but the typical CAD program (even
electronic CAD programs) don't know about signal gain/loss in blocks,
and will have no provision to make these simple calculations.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca
 

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