Slightly OT - Apple OS4 on 2G Touch ...

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:lnma26dmqrgiadt84614qsa9emqj636fo9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:21:15 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Not jailbroken. Just off-the-shelf vanilla.

So much for that theory.

I don't knowingly have huge amounts - if indeed any - Google Apps on it.
Although thinking about it, I do have Google Earth, but it hasn't been
opened since the update.

Google Earth should not cause problems. It's only Google Mail and
possibly Calendar that might need to sync huge amounts of data.

For the moment, I'm going to leave the wifi and location services switched
off, and see what happens. If that is ok, then I will put the wifi back
on,
and see how it goes then, and report back.

iPhone and iPod touch: Understanding Location Services
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1975

The iPod Touch does NOT have GPS or 3G data. However, it can use
Wi-Fi to obtain locations. I usually leave location services off on
mine to save electrons. I just turned it on, fired up Google Maps
while indoors, and it found me within about 300ft. Nice. However,
there's no additional drain other than Wi-Fi. When the iPod Touch
goes to snooze, the Wi-Fi goes into standby. I don't think this is
the source of your mystery discharge.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
Click to expand...

Agreed, the wifi *should* go to standby when the iPod sleeps, and I'm sure
that it did with the previous version of software that was on the device,
but I'm not yet convinced that it is doing so correctly, with iOS 4, so at
the moment, I'm still checking battery drain with various settings on or
off, and the jury is still out on this one ...

Arfa
 
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:41oa26p5tcar7cqqnpma2hsijuapth6bc6@4ax.com...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:51:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

iPhone and iPod touch: Understanding Location Services
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1975

Incidentally, the iPhone and iPod Touch Wi-Fi based location services
uses Skyhook:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com
which uses a database of known wi-fi access points. It found my
office location because I had registered my access point long ago.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that Google know about an awful lot more wireless access
points, than just ones that have been registered. There's recently been a
big privacy hoo-hah over here regarding the fact that when Google drove
their camcars round every street in the country, as well as taking pictures,
they also continuously sniffed wireless access points, and logged their
locations, and every bit of data they could gather from them.

Big Brother cometh, or what ...

Arfa
 
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 01:16:20 +0100, Arfa Daily ǝʇoɹʍ:

snip

I had a similar situation with my Blackberry. When they updated the OS
the bluetooth suddenly ate the battery in about 10 hours. Before the
phone could go for a week on standby. So I ended up disabling the BT
until needed. About 3 months passed and there was a software update
that addressed the BT issue and it worked. I was screwing around with
my sister's ITouch yesterday. Nice little unit for sure. But now I own
a Dell Mini and no longer desire an ITouch for myself. I wouldn't have
been happy with something that was only half a computer anyway.

Well, I reckon that I've just about got it pinned down now. Unit idled
asleep all day, and battery went down about 2% or so, so that was back
to normal. So this evening, I turned the wifi back on, and connected to
the TV news site that I use, then exited that app, connected to the
iTunes store and had a little browse, then exited that app. I then left
the unit for another couple of hours, and rechecked. The battery was
just as I had left it, so the wifi had correctly gone back to sleep,
when the online apps were exited. A while ago, I started up The Weather
Channel desktop app, which I suspect is at the bottom of the trouble,
and accessed some data. Now this app asks for permission to determine
your location, via the 'net, by making use of the router data that
Google have stolen from you, as they drove past your house with their
camcars.. I usually just let the app go ahead and do this. Tonight, it
had a bit of a cry that it couldn't ask me, because "Location Services"
were turned off on the iPod. Having looked at a weather forecast, I
exited the app, and again, all seems to be well.

So, I'm now pretty sure that the issue is to do with this location
determining malarky. If for whatever reason, it doesn't manage to
complete the operation, it looks as though it keeps trying, which would
be fair enough whilst the app is running. To be honest, I don't know if
this has ever worked, because I don't actually know why the app needs to
know where I am. Assuming that it doesn't complete, and keeps trying, it
looks as though with iOS 4, the operation doesn't get cancelled when you
exit the app, so the wifi transmitter stays active, rinsing your battery
in a few hours. Presumably, this is an oversight / bug in iOS 4 that the
previous version didn't have. I can't see any reason for the wifi
transmitter staying active after an app has been dumped. As soon as you
exit, any wifi activity associated with the app, should be immediately
tidied up, and dropped.

I think that for the moment, I'm just going to keep location services
shut off, and if I load up any apps that definitely need it, decide on a
per use basis whether to re-enable it.
Click to expand...
Looks as you've isolated it. I disable BT on my phones unless needed.
Makes a significant enough impact on idle time to do so. Disabling the
wifi on my Dell Mini gives me roughly 30% more battery life. I often take
it with me when I go looking for things to photograph. Pull the SDHC card
from the camera and insert into the Mini and review them. Don't need
radios rinsing the battery when I'm out in the middle of nowhere. And I
often ride the Harley when I go nature photogging :) No cig lighter power
supply on it.
 
Looks as you've isolated it. I disable BT on my phones unless needed.
Makes a significant enough impact on idle time to do so. Disabling the
wifi on my Dell Mini gives me roughly 30% more battery life. I often take
it with me when I go looking for things to photograph. Pull the SDHC card
from the camera and insert into the Mini and review them. Don't need
radios rinsing the battery when I'm out in the middle of nowhere. And I
often ride the Harley when I go nature photogging :) No cig lighter power
supply on it.
Click to expand...
I've definitely isolated it now. It wasn't the "Location Services", it was
"Notifications" as someone else suggested it might be. I now have wifi set
back "ON" and location services set back "ON", and everything is just fine.
Battery life is absolutely normal. As soon as you switch "Notifications"
back on, the battery rinsing starts. I haven't a clue what it is for, and
I'm sure I don't remember seeing it being on, or even actually there ?? in
the previous version of OS that was installed before the iOS 4 upgrade.
Anyway there is no problem with operation or battery with it off, so off it
will stay ... :)

Arfa
 
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:31:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I've definitely isolated it now. It wasn't the "Location Services", it was
"Notifications" as someone else suggested it might be. I now have wifi set
back "ON" and location services set back "ON", and everything is just fine.
Battery life is absolutely normal. As soon as you switch "Notifications"
back on, the battery rinsing starts. I haven't a clue what it is for, and
I'm sure I don't remember seeing it being on, or even actually there ?? in
the previous version of OS that was installed before the iOS 4 upgrade.
Anyway there is no problem with operation or battery with it off, so off it
will stay ... :)
Click to expand...
<http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3576>
Push Notifications are messages from applications that go merrily out
to the internet to see if there's anything worth bugging you about.
The notifications can appear BEFORE you smear the screen with "slide
to unlock". Under Nofifications, I have eTrade and eBay notifications
enabled on mine. I get plenty of notifications from both of these
apps.

However, it doesn't kill my battery. I leave 15 minute Notifications
on continuously, and my battery level is roughly where I left it the
previous night. No unusual drain from Notifications that I can see
and I have a rather old battery.

If you don't see any applications listed under Notifications, then
turn it off. You don't need it. If you do want the listed apps to
bug you when appropriate, leave it on.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:39:12 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3576
(...)
If you don't see any applications listed under Notifications, then turn
it off. You don't need it. If you do want the listed apps to bug you
when appropriate, leave it on.

Wonder why these would 'rinse' Arf's battery and not yours?
Click to expand...
Why? It's an Apple product. It's so intuitive and easy, you don't
need to know why.

I ran a crude test last night. At midnight, my iPod Touch 2G showed
97% battery charge (using iSystemPro). 9 hrs later, it's at 89%.
Notification is set to check my stocks and eBay items every 15 minutes
via Wi-Fi.

Here's another app to help run the battery down:
<https://www.ihoundsoftware.com/ihound/template/iPhone.vm>
Much like LoJack for iPod Touch, iPad, etc. I just installed it.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
"Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.06.27.15.40.10@gmail.com...
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:54:41 -0700, Jeff Liebermann ǝʇoɹʍ:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:31:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I've definitely isolated it now. It wasn't the "Location Services", it
was "Notifications" as someone else suggested it might be. I now have
wifi set back "ON" and location services set back "ON", and everything
is just fine. Battery life is absolutely normal. As soon as you switch
"Notifications" back on, the battery rinsing starts. I haven't a clue
what it is for, and I'm sure I don't remember seeing it being on, or
even actually there ?? in the previous version of OS that was installed
before the iOS 4 upgrade. Anyway there is no problem with operation or
battery with it off, so off it will stay ... :)

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3576
Push Notifications are messages from applications that go merrily out to
the internet to see if there's anything worth bugging you about. The
notifications can appear BEFORE you smear the screen with "slide to
unlock". Under Nofifications, I have eTrade and eBay notifications
enabled on mine. I get plenty of notifications from both of these apps.

However, it doesn't kill my battery. I leave 15 minute Notifications on
continuously, and my battery level is roughly where I left it the
previous night. No unusual drain from Notifications that I can see and
I have a rather old battery.

If you don't see any applications listed under Notifications, then turn
it off. You don't need it. If you do want the listed apps to bug you
when appropriate, leave it on.

Wonder why these would 'rinse' Arf's battery and not yours?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's odd, but it is definitely the cause. There was one app listed,
which is a Caesars Las Vegas 'in house' thing. I don't recall it ever having
told me anything though. It's been on my Touch for a long time, and has
never caused a problem in the past. It's not an app that I use anyway, so
maybe I'll just remove it .

Arfa
 
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:54:41 -0700, Jeff Liebermann ǝʇoɹʍ:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:31:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I've definitely isolated it now. It wasn't the "Location Services", it
was "Notifications" as someone else suggested it might be. I now have
wifi set back "ON" and location services set back "ON", and everything
is just fine. Battery life is absolutely normal. As soon as you switch
"Notifications" back on, the battery rinsing starts. I haven't a clue
what it is for, and I'm sure I don't remember seeing it being on, or
even actually there ?? in the previous version of OS that was installed
before the iOS 4 upgrade. Anyway there is no problem with operation or
battery with it off, so off it will stay ... :)

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3576
Push Notifications are messages from applications that go merrily out to
the internet to see if there's anything worth bugging you about. The
notifications can appear BEFORE you smear the screen with "slide to
unlock". Under Nofifications, I have eTrade and eBay notifications
enabled on mine. I get plenty of notifications from both of these apps.

However, it doesn't kill my battery. I leave 15 minute Notifications on
continuously, and my battery level is roughly where I left it the
previous night. No unusual drain from Notifications that I can see and
I have a rather old battery.

If you don't see any applications listed under Notifications, then turn
it off. You don't need it. If you do want the listed apps to bug you
when appropriate, leave it on.
Click to expand...
Wonder why these would 'rinse' Arf's battery and not yours?
 
"Bruce Esquibel" <bje@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:i0a3no$era$1@remote5bge0.ripco.com...
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Yes, it's odd, but it is definitely the cause. There was one app listed,
which is a Caesars Las Vegas 'in house' thing. I don't recall it ever
having
told me anything though. It's been on my Touch for a long time, and has
never caused a problem in the past. It's not an app that I use anyway, so
maybe I'll just remove it .

Time will tell but it's either a bug or a feature in ios4.

That push notification stuff came in with one of the 3.x updates, but like
you, never saw any useful using it, at least on the ipod touch. I had
about
8 or 9 apps that had push in them but only one would randomly get a
message.

But the behavior with the wifi when it's sleeping is changed with the 4
from
the 3.x stuff.

I noticed it because the router I use for the dsl has a separate
"wireless"
light on it, comes on when someone is using wifi. We only have two wifi
devices, the wifes laptop and my iPod.

The morning after the ios4 came out I noticed first thing the light was
on,
still on an hour later. Checked and her stuff was packed away, she was
sleeping. The ipod was in sleep mode.

I took a quick look at the local network map on the router and sure
enough,
it showed the ipod active and on the wifi, nothing else. Turned it off,
the
wifi light goes dark.

Hmmm.

Turning off the push stuff made things go back to the old behavior, ipod
sleeps, the wifi light stays off on the router. If it comes up once in a
while, I don't know, never noticed it.

Only thing I can figure is, with the 3.x if the ipod is sleeping, you just
wouldn't of received push notifications. Maybe now you do with the ios4.
Even with it sleeping, it keeps the wifi in a listening mode or something.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Your experience would seem to mirror mine then. I too noticed a lot of
wifi activity on my router, but I have all sorts of machines connected
wirelessly, and they are forever doing things in the background, so I never
took too much notice of it. Anyway, seems like we've both found the cause of
the problem, and the fact that it is dependant on apps that want to use the
facility, would possibly explain why some iPod Touches are suffering, and
some are not. My wife's is identical to mine, but she has not had the
problem since updating. I checked the Notifications on hers, and nothing
showed as wanting use of the facility. I shut it off anyway though, as she
is a bugger for downloading free games from the Apple store ... :)

Arfa
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Yes, it's odd, but it is definitely the cause. There was one app listed,
which is a Caesars Las Vegas 'in house' thing. I don't recall it ever having
told me anything though. It's been on my Touch for a long time, and has
never caused a problem in the past. It's not an app that I use anyway, so
maybe I'll just remove it .
Click to expand...
Time will tell but it's either a bug or a feature in ios4.

That push notification stuff came in with one of the 3.x updates, but like
you, never saw any useful using it, at least on the ipod touch. I had about
8 or 9 apps that had push in them but only one would randomly get a message.

But the behavior with the wifi when it's sleeping is changed with the 4 from
the 3.x stuff.

I noticed it because the router I use for the dsl has a separate "wireless"
light on it, comes on when someone is using wifi. We only have two wifi
devices, the wifes laptop and my iPod.

The morning after the ios4 came out I noticed first thing the light was on,
still on an hour later. Checked and her stuff was packed away, she was
sleeping. The ipod was in sleep mode.

I took a quick look at the local network map on the router and sure enough,
it showed the ipod active and on the wifi, nothing else. Turned it off, the
wifi light goes dark.

Hmmm.

Turning off the push stuff made things go back to the old behavior, ipod
sleeps, the wifi light stays off on the router. If it comes up once in a
while, I don't know, never noticed it.

Only thing I can figure is, with the 3.x if the ipod is sleeping, you just
wouldn't of received push notifications. Maybe now you do with the ios4.
Even with it sleeping, it keeps the wifi in a listening mode or something.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com
 
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:36:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

I ran a crude test last night. At midnight, my iPod Touch 2G showed
97% battery charge (using iSystemPro). 9 hrs later, it's at 89%.
Notification is set to check my stocks and eBay items every 15 minutes
via Wi-Fi.

Here's another app to help run the battery down:
https://www.ihoundsoftware.com/ihound/template/iPhone.vm
Much like LoJack for iPod Touch, iPad, etc. I just installed it.
Click to expand...
Argh. I installed iHound to send their server my location every 10
minutes. The default was 3 minutes. I left iHound running overnight.
The battery went from 97% to 32%. Ouch.

I don't think it's Notifications that are sucking the battery power.
Methinks the problem is leaving an application running that uses
notifications or just CPU cycles when the iPod Touch is in standby. I
usually display the desktop before turning off (actually standby)
mine, so I haven't had much experience with what an application can do
to the battery level if left running.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:j7ih26deuf9d1nup0lm7rq2s2ffc2smc5k@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:36:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

I ran a crude test last night. At midnight, my iPod Touch 2G showed
97% battery charge (using iSystemPro). 9 hrs later, it's at 89%.
Notification is set to check my stocks and eBay items every 15 minutes
via Wi-Fi.

Here's another app to help run the battery down:
https://www.ihoundsoftware.com/ihound/template/iPhone.vm
Much like LoJack for iPod Touch, iPad, etc. I just installed it.

Argh. I installed iHound to send their server my location every 10
minutes. The default was 3 minutes. I left iHound running overnight.
The battery went from 97% to 32%. Ouch.

I don't think it's Notifications that are sucking the battery power.
Methinks the problem is leaving an application running that uses
notifications or just CPU cycles when the iPod Touch is in standby. I
usually display the desktop before turning off (actually standby)
mine, so I haven't had much experience with what an application can do
to the battery level if left running.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
Click to expand...

No apps were running to the best of my knowledge, when the problem was
occurring. I installed an app that monitors the system processes, as well as
a lot of other things like the battery, and checked what the state of play
was before putting it to sleep. It showed the processor as being (typically)
96 - 97% idle. There was one app that *wanted* notifications access, but the
app was not running - or at least it wasn't running in the foreground.
Nothing had changed with this app or the way it was loaded, and it had not
caused a problem before. Maybe iOS 4 gives it what it wants in the
background. I guess this may be a bug, and because of that keeps the wifi
running pretty much continuously. I don't know where in the unit the wifi
module is located, but certainly, the back of the case was warm enough to
just about feel, up near the top. It never had been before, and isn't again
now.

I have actually deleted the app that wanted notifications access now, so it
might be an interesting experiment to turn notifications back on. I guess I
could also wave the unit at my spec anny, and see if there is any obvious
wifi activity from it, when it's asleep.

Arfa
 
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 01:23:13 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

No apps were running to the best of my knowledge, when the problem was
occurring.
Click to expand...
So much for that theory.

I installed an app that monitors the system processes, as well as
a lot of other things like the battery, and checked what the state of play
was before putting it to sleep. It showed the processor as being (typically)
96 - 97% idle.
Click to expand...
That's what you'll usually see. The iPod Touch does not support
(much) multitasking (thank you Apple) so the only application that's
really able to run has to be in the forground and running. An
application can be installed, but unless it has Steve Jobs personal
permission to run in the background, it's not going to burn any CPU
cycles.

I don't know where in the unit the wifi
module is located, but certainly, the back of the case was warm enough to
just about feel, up near the top. It never had been before, and isn't again
now.
Click to expand...
Looking inside:
<http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPod-Touch-2nd-Generation/586/1>
the wi-fi chip is near the top, next to the antenna:
<http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/a11UeKjfQfuIIrHD.huge>
next to the gold test coax connector. Mouse over the Broadcom chip in
the right hand photo above the "Step 10" label.

I have actually deleted the app that wanted notifications access now, so it
might be an interesting experiment to turn notifications back on. I guess I
could also wave the unit at my spec anny, and see if there is any obvious
wifi activity from it, when it's asleep.
Click to expand...
A passive Wi-Fi sniffer (Kismet) might show more. Spread Spectrum is
difficult to see on an SA. If Notification is on, you should see some
traffic when it wakes up. However, if you REALLY want to run the
battery down, turn off you wireless router at night. The iPod Touch
will try to find something with which to connect. Not finding any
open access points, it will go through the list of SSID's heard, thus
taking more time, and much more battery power.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
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