Sine generator IC solution?

dave.harper · Jan 29, 2005

Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Thanks in advance!
Dave

Charles Schuler · Jan 29, 2005

"dave.harper" <dave.harper@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107040148.604139.327150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Exar and others make function generator chips that might work.

Pooh Bear · Jan 29, 2005

"dave.harper" wrote:

Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

How pure does the sinewave need to be ? This influences your options quite
significantly.

Graham

Jan 29, 2005

Check out the Analog Devices DDS chips

http://www.analog.com/en/subCat/0,2879,770%255F843%255F0%255F%255F0%255F,00.html
-----------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Joerg · Jan 29, 2005

Hello Dave,

If you want a precise and stable frequency the usual function generators
may not quite suffice. In that case check Analog Devices' Direct Digital
Synthesis Chips (DDS). An example is the AD9833 which is inexpensive.
This one needs the frequency info via SPI but they also have others.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

John Larkin · Jan 30, 2005

On 29 Jan 2005 15:09:08 -0800, "dave.harper" <dave.harper@gmail.com>
wrote:

Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Thanks in advance!
Dave

What's the difference between a "sine generator IC" and a "sine
generator IC solution"?

John

Spehro Pefhany · Jan 30, 2005

On 30 Jan 2005 01:40:32 GMT, the renowned Jim Yanik
<jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote:

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:2v9ov0puoernimqbao97rpg3c1tsq4msc9@4ax.com:

On 29 Jan 2005 15:09:08 -0800, the renowned "dave.harper"
dave.harper@gmail.com> wrote:

Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Thanks in advance!
Dave

ICL8038, MAX038 can be used to generate sine-like waveforms (made from
triangle waves). That's probably the easiest way for you if you don't
care too much about stability, distortion, or cost.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Doesn't MAX038 generate the signals digitally,using a clock? Then freq
stability depends on the clock stability.

It's basically an analog part:

http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX038.pdf

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

John Woodgate · Jan 30, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that mike <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote
(in <41FCB3A1.4030907@netscape.net&gt

about 'Sine generator IC
solution?', on Sun, 30 Jan 2005:

IIRC a triangle has only 3% harmonic distortion.

No, much more. 12.8% - I just measured it.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Spehro Pefhany · Jan 30, 2005

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:12:16 +0000, the renowned John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that dave.harper
dave.harper@gmail.com> wrote (in <1107040148.604139.327150@c13g2000cwb.
googlegroups.com&gt about 'Sine generator IC solution?', on Sat, 29 Jan
2005:
Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Any cheap op-amp and a few passive components will do what you want. I
just don't understand why people propose relatively hugely more complex
solutions.

Part of engineering skill is not to spend more money than necessary. In
fact one definition of an engineer is 'someone who can do for a dollar
what any other fool can do for 10'.

An op-amp (or a few discrete transistors if you ignore the "IC
solution" part of the OP's question) and a handful of passives and a
nonlinear element of some kind (lamp, thermistor etc.) can be used to
make a Wien bridge oscillator, probably the most easily adjustable
sine-wave oscillator. But the specs might push the solution somewhere
else. If you google on "Wein bridge" and "Wein bridge" (the latter
has 3 times as many hits, though some may lead you to bridges over the
Danube) you should get some good ideas.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

richard mullens · Jan 30, 2005

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that dave.harper
dave.harper@gmail.com> wrote (in <1107040148.604139.327150@c13g2000cwb.
googlegroups.com&gt about 'Sine generator IC solution?', on Sat, 29 Jan
2005:

Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Any cheap op-amp and a few passive components will do what you want. I
just don't understand why people propose relatively hugely more complex
solutions.

I think that this presupposes a certain knowledge on the part of the questioner.
For instance I was looking for a colpitts oscillator on the internet. I found a number of examples, but I couldn't easily find
any that discussed how it operated, or how one should decide on the ratio of the values of the capacitors in the circuit, or
which of a comparator, opamp, Cmos inverter, Fet, or MosFet etc would be best.

Part of engineering skill is not to spend more money than necessary. In
fact one definition of an engineer is 'someone who can do for a dollar
what any other fool can do for 10'.

John Woodgate · Jan 30, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlog
DOTyou.knowwhat> wrote (in <07rpv09fb0kja6lpmj2m7fjcjqcp50k3ec@4ax.com&gt

about 'Sine generator IC solution?', on Sun, 30 Jan 2005:

But the specs might push the solution somewhere else. If you
google on "Wein bridge" and "Wein bridge" (the latter has 3 times as
many hits, though some may lead you to bridges over the
Danube) you should get some good ideas.

WIEN - Vienna, not WEIN - wine.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Jim Thompson · Jan 30, 2005

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:12:16 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that dave.harper
dave.harper@gmail.com> wrote (in <1107040148.604139.327150@c13g2000cwb.
googlegroups.com&gt about 'Sine generator IC solution?', on Sat, 29 Jan
2005:
Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Any cheap op-amp and a few passive components will do what you want. I
just don't understand why people propose relatively hugely more complex
solutions.

Part of engineering skill is not to spend more money than necessary. In
fact one definition of an engineer is 'someone who can do for a dollar
what any other fool can do for 10'.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

dave.harper · Jan 30, 2005

John Woodgate wrote:

Part of engineering skill is not to spend more money than necessary.
In
fact one definition of an engineer is 'someone who can do for a
dollar
what any other fool can do for 10'.

Indeed, but you assume that I majored in that area. I'm an ME by
degree and occupation, so my knowledge in that field is limited. I
don't criticize you for taking your car to the shop.

Thanks all for the valuable insight.

Dave

Michael Black · Jan 30, 2005

Spehro Pefhany (speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat) writes:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:12:16 +0000, the renowned John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that dave.harper
dave.harper@gmail.com> wrote (in <1107040148.604139.327150@c13g2000cwb.
googlegroups.com&gt about 'Sine generator IC solution?', on Sat, 29 Jan
2005:
Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between 200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Any cheap op-amp and a few passive components will do what you want. I
just don't understand why people propose relatively hugely more complex
solutions.

Part of engineering skill is not to spend more money than necessary. In
fact one definition of an engineer is 'someone who can do for a dollar
what any other fool can do for 10'.

An op-amp (or a few discrete transistors if you ignore the "IC
solution" part of the OP's question) and a handful of passives and a
nonlinear element of some kind (lamp, thermistor etc.) can be used to
make a Wien bridge oscillator, probably the most easily adjustable
sine-wave oscillator. But the specs might push the solution somewhere
else. If you google on "Wein bridge" and "Wein bridge" (the latter
has 3 times as many hits, though some may lead you to bridges over the
Danube) you should get some good ideas.

Some of it surely depends on what he wants the thing for. That 10:1

tuning range may be the reason for calling for an IC, or it may just
be that he's unfamiliar with the alternatives.

One neat thing about those IC function generators is their wide continuous
range. But of course, they go do those non-traditional schemes in order
to be able to get 10:1 or wider range in one segment. If one needs the range,
one often doesn't need the purity of the sinewave. If one needs the
purity of the sinewave, they may not need continuous tuning, or at least
can live with discrete steps.

Michael

dave.harper · Jan 30, 2005

mike wrote:

dave.harper wrote:
Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a
single
chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing
a
PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between
200
and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Thanks in advance!
Dave

Whatchagonnadowithit?

I'm trying to make a radio modem that can be controlled via a PIC.
I've managed to create one that can communicate via RTTY and AMTOR-FEC
(ham radio protocols) at 100 baud, but the waveform looks like the PIC
threw up on the oscope. My software is still able to decode it at 100
baud without a problem, but at higher speeds it's becoming an issue.
So I'm looking for something to create a less nausiating wave form and
would cause less problems for the recieving software to decode at
higher speeds. That's why I'm concerned with the tolerance on the
frequencies... What about a 555 with tightly toleranced resistors and
caps, and a double-integrated output...?

Dave

John Woodgate · Jan 30, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that dave.harper
<dave.harper@gmail.com> wrote (in <1107110257.688660.159730@f14g2000cwb.
googlegroups.com&gt

about 'Sine generator IC solution?', on Sun, 30 Jan
2005:

Indeed, but you assume that I majored in that area. I'm an ME by degree
and occupation, so my knowledge in that field is limited. I don't
criticize you for taking your car to the shop. Thanks all for the
valuable insight.

I wasn't criticizing you; I was having a go at the people who advised
you to use complex solutions instead of a simple one.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

mike · Jan 30, 2005

dave.harper wrote:

mike wrote:

dave.harper wrote:

Are there any variable sine generator IC's? I was looking for a

single

chip solution, but am not sure if they exist (other than programing

a

PIC or similar). The frequency range I'm working with is between

200

and 2000 Hz. Ideally I'd like it to be accurate (or adjustable) to
within 10 Hz.

Thanks in advance!
Dave

Whatchagonnadowithit?

I'm trying to make a radio modem that can be controlled via a PIC.
I've managed to create one that can communicate via RTTY and AMTOR-FEC
(ham radio protocols) at 100 baud, but the waveform looks like the PIC
threw up on the oscope. My software is still able to decode it at 100
baud without a problem, but at higher speeds it's becoming an issue.
So I'm looking for something to create a less nausiating wave form and
would cause less problems for the recieving software to decode at
higher speeds. That's why I'm concerned with the tolerance on the
frequencies... What about a 555 with tightly toleranced resistors and
caps, and a double-integrated output...?

Dave

Don't they make single chip modems for this very purpose?
My Baycom has a TCM3105, whatever that is...
mike

--
Return address is VALID.
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

Mike Diack · Jan 30, 2005

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:73fqv010am2aqdg0qpr032n5n6g76oobnr@4ax.com:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:12:46 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:

One of the Analog Devices DDS chips is the ultimate sine generator.
Just give it a clock and serial data, and dump the current output into
a shunt R-C to ground, and you'll have a sine programmable over six or
so orders of magnitude in frequency with the same precistion as the
clock. The low-end parts are cheap.

John

Sure. If he has the ability to write and burn in a simple
microcontroller program, and to deal with 0.5~0.65mm pitch SMT parts,
that could be a very good (and simple) solution.

You dont even need to know how to program a micro (though these days not

being aquainted with these matters rather limits your options).You can
program some of them with a dip switch (parallel load). The godawful
small packages are a bittovabitch however, and it's only going to get
worse (leadless packages, BGA etc).The shrinking of the lead pitches
almost exactly matches my progressive loss of visual acuity.<sigh>
M

john jardine · Jan 30, 2005

"Mike Diack" <moby@kcbbs.gen.middleearth> wrote in message
news:Xns95EF7644EF8BBmobykcbbsgennz@203.96.92.12...

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:73fqv010am2aqdg0qpr032n5n6g76oobnr@4ax.com:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:12:46 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:

One of the Analog Devices DDS chips is the ultimate sine generator.
Just give it a clock and serial data, and dump the current output into
a shunt R-C to ground, and you'll have a sine programmable over six or
so orders of magnitude in frequency with the same precistion as the
clock. The low-end parts are cheap.

John

Sure. If he has the ability to write and burn in a simple
microcontroller program, and to deal with 0.5~0.65mm pitch SMT parts,
that could be a very good (and simple) solution.

You dont even need to know how to program a micro (though these days not
being aquainted with these matters rather limits your options).You can
program some of them with a dip switch (parallel load). The godawful
small packages are a bittovabitch however, and it's only going to get
worse (leadless packages, BGA etc).The shrinking of the lead pitches
almost exactly matches my progressive loss of visual acuity.<sigh
M

Nowadays my heart sinks every time I've completed a design, knowing that in
14-20 days a prototype product'll turn up, all bright and shiny, on a tiny
little surface mount PCB complete with all those tiny little specks of coal
dust and unfortunately, any faults I or the PCB guy designed in.
The stuff is just too small to casually rework or check out. I've reached a
point where any enthusiasm has gone down the drain.
regards
john

John Larkin · Jan 30, 2005

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:55:21 -0000, "john jardine"
<john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

"Mike Diack" <moby@kcbbs.gen.middleearth> wrote in message
news:Xns95EF7644EF8BBmobykcbbsgennz@203.96.92.12...
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:73fqv010am2aqdg0qpr032n5n6g76oobnr@4ax.com:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:12:46 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:

One of the Analog Devices DDS chips is the ultimate sine generator.
Just give it a clock and serial data, and dump the current output into
a shunt R-C to ground, and you'll have a sine programmable over six or
so orders of magnitude in frequency with the same precistion as the
clock. The low-end parts are cheap.

John

Sure. If he has the ability to write and burn in a simple
microcontroller program, and to deal with 0.5~0.65mm pitch SMT parts,
that could be a very good (and simple) solution.

You dont even need to know how to program a micro (though these days not
being aquainted with these matters rather limits your options).You can
program some of them with a dip switch (parallel load). The godawful
small packages are a bittovabitch however, and it's only going to get
worse (leadless packages, BGA etc).The shrinking of the lead pitches
almost exactly matches my progressive loss of visual acuity.<sigh
M

Nowadays my heart sinks every time I've completed a design, knowing that in
14-20 days a prototype product'll turn up, all bright and shiny, on a tiny
little surface mount PCB complete with all those tiny little specks of coal
dust and unfortunately, any faults I or the PCB guy designed in.
The stuff is just too small to casually rework or check out. I've reached a
point where any enthusiasm has gone down the drain.
regards
john

Invest in a good Metcal soldering iron and tips, and a Mantis
magnifier. That might make it fun again.

And include a lot of pth test points in your layouts.

John

Sine generator IC solution?

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