Simple audio amp design...

[Phil Allison]

Tabby wrote:
===========

It turns out you don\'t need a vacuum to get a thermionic valve to work.

https://odysee.com/@doctorvolt:a/can-we-build-a-tube-amplifier-with-light:1
** The vid does not say the was no vacuum.

did you not watch it? His expermient showed about 50% atmospheric pressure

** Where ?????


..... Phil

 

[Ronnie Dominic]

Super post

https://profile.hatena.ne.jp/australianlabradoodles/profile

https://catchthemes.com/support-forum/users/australianlabradoodles/

https://disqus.com/by/australianlabradoodleuk/about/

https://archive.org/details/@australianlabradoodles

https://trove.nla.gov.au/userProfile/user/australianlabradoodles/about

https://allinone.lk/author/australianlabradoodles/

 

[Tauno Voipio]

On 30.12.21 1.40, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:28:48 -0800 (PST), Three Jeeps
jjhudak4@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 6:13:09 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 13:51:14 -0800 (PST), Tabby <tabb...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Saturday, 25 December 2021 at 04:57:32 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Tabby wrote:
==============
The vacuum would be the interesting part of that.

It turns out you don\'t need a vacuum to get a thermionic valve to work.

https://odysee.com/@doctorvolt:a/can-we-build-a-tube-amplifier-with-light:1
** The vid does not say the was no vacuum.

did you not watch it? His expermient showed about 50% atmospheric pressure in the crude valve / lightbulb.

Common light bulbs contain low pressure nitrogen but some small types have
a vacuum inside.

IME regular electron tubes ( triodes / pentodes) fail to operate immediately
when air leaks in.


..... Phil

Pressure is not the only issue, IIUC it depends on gas composition too. Air is not good in that respect, N2 is.
Some linear amplifier tubes had deliberate gas fill, which increased
gain somehow. But it made them slow.

Thyratrons and VR and T/R and krytron tubes of course used inert gas.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vkdemdk48k3myd/Kry_Danger.jpg?raw=1

Some demo CRTs had a gas fill that made the beam visible.

Does anyone know what this is?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/np4s7ifgg5f4gbz/DSC01841.JPG?raw=1
--



If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

A SWAG, Russian equivalent of half-wave rectifier, equivalent to 6W4 or full wave rectifier, 5YG3 perhaps?

It doesn\'t have a filament. I\'m guessing it\'s a waveguide radar t/r
switch.

It looks like the t/r switch spark gap. There may be a small radiation
source inside to help start the flashover.

--

-TV

 

[Tabby]

On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:04:57 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:

Tabby wrote:
=============


IME regular electron tubes ( triodes / pentodes) fail to operate immediately
when air leaks in.

Pressure is not the only issue, IIUC it depends on gas composition too.
** Really ??

Yes, electrons can get through nitrogen. Is it panto season?

Air is not good in that respect,
** Shame about the Oxygen.

and the water & who knows what else

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Tabby wrote:

On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:04:57 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Tabby wrote:
=============


IME regular electron tubes ( triodes / pentodes) fail to operate immediately
when air leaks in.

Pressure is not the only issue, IIUC it depends on gas composition too.
** Really ??

Yes, electrons can get through nitrogen. Is it panto season?

They can, actually--free electrons are stable in pure N2. (Fun fact.)

Not much use for vacuum tubes, of course, because their mobility is the
pits.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Allison]

Tabby wrote:
========

IME regular electron tubes ( triodes / pentodes) fail to operate immediately
when air leaks in.

Pressure is not the only issue, IIUC it depends on gas composition too.

** Really ??

Yes, electrons can get through nitrogen.

** Guess lighting strikes prove that one....


> Is it panto season?

** You in one ?

Air is not good in that respect,
** Shame about the Oxygen.

and the water & who knows what else

** Yeah - a tiny bit of CO2 really destroys tungsten filaments !

This demented dude is smoking something I don\'t.



...... Phil

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:41:25 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Tabby wrote:
On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:04:57 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Tabby wrote:
=============


IME regular electron tubes ( triodes / pentodes) fail to operate immediately
when air leaks in.

Pressure is not the only issue, IIUC it depends on gas composition too.
** Really ??

Yes, electrons can get through nitrogen. Is it panto season?

They can, actually--free electrons are stable in pure N2. (Fun fact.)

Not much use for vacuum tubes, of course, because their mobility is the
pits.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

So they just wander around alone, and don\'t bind to the molecules?
That could be at least a cool science project. One could measure
diffusion rates and such.

Is there no such thing as a negative ionized nitrogen molecule?

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:41:25 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Tabby wrote:
On Thursday, 30 December 2021 at 00:04:57 UTC, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Tabby wrote:
=============


IME regular electron tubes ( triodes / pentodes) fail to operate immediately
when air leaks in.

Pressure is not the only issue, IIUC it depends on gas composition too.
** Really ??

Yes, electrons can get through nitrogen. Is it panto season?

They can, actually--free electrons are stable in pure N2. (Fun fact.)

Not much use for vacuum tubes, of course, because their mobility is the
pits.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

So they just wander around alone, and don\'t bind to the molecules?

Right.

That could be at least a cool science project. One could measure
diffusion rates and such.

Is there no such thing as a negative ionized nitrogen molecule?

There is, but its ground state energy is above that of the neutral
molecule plus free electron, so the stable state is free electrons in
neutral N2.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[whit3rd]

\\On Friday, December 31, 2021 at 10:40:03 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 20:41:25 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Tabby wrote:

Yes, electrons can get through nitrogen. Is it panto season?

They can, actually--free electrons are stable in pure N2. (Fun fact.)

So they just wander around alone, and don\'t bind to the molecules?
That could be at least a cool science project. One could measure
diffusion rates and such.

Conduction in gasses certainly IS a science project, and was
quite active half a century ago (creation of fluorescent lights)
and important much earlier (big rectifiers with mercury gas).

Georges Charpak got the physics Nobel in 1992 for his contributions.

 

[Phil Allison]

Thirdwit strikes again : whit3rd wrote:

=============================

Conduction in gasses certainly IS a science project, and was
quite active half a century ago (creation of fluorescent lights)
and important much earlier (big rectifiers with mercury gas).

Georges Charpak got the physics Nobel in 1992 for his contributions.

** Fucking Google Monkey bullshit.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 1:15:58 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:

Thirdwit strikes again : whit3rd wrote:

============================
Conduction in gasses certainly IS a science project, and was
quite active half a century ago (creation of fluorescent lights)
and important much earlier (big rectifiers with mercury gas).

Georges Charpak got the physics Nobel in 1992 for his contributions.

** Fucking Google Monkey bullshit.

Probably not. I\'ve got a copy of

<https://www.amazon.com.au/Conduction-Electricity-through-Gases-Thomson/dp/110741427X/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3RBKX5Y0A65ZO&keywords=conduction+of+electricity+through+gases+j+j+thomson&qid=1641037160&sprefix=Conduction+of+Electricity+through+Gases%2Caps%2C400&sr=8-3>

It was first published in 1903, and there was a second edition of 1933. My copy was cheap paper-back re-print from 1960\'s, which I bought when I was working on starting an driving an arc lamp around 1972.

Since the 1990\'s you have been able to find some of that kind of stuff with Google, but before that you pretty much had to buy a book.
Sir Joseph John Thomson (1856–1940) was a British physicist who is credited with the discovery of the electron, but he also wrote a rather useful textbook.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 30/12/2021 00:03, Phil Allison wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Ordinary incandescents have a low-pressure argon fill.

** No they don\'t - most use Nitrogen.

Cite please. They did way back before argon was a commonly available
industrial gas but that isn\'t during the modern manufacturing era.

UK makers seem to favour (impure) argon for most domestic sizes of
filament bulb (at least back in the day when they still made them).

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Gases.htm

This one is quite a nice demo of what happens if you have the gas
pressure in the bulb envelope too high and warm air rises.

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Atmosphere.htm

In practice for economic reasons it is an argon rich trace nitrogen mix
at lowish pressure. Argon has slightly better insulating properties.

I\'m with PhilH on this. Maybe it is different elsewhere though.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Phil Allison]

Martin Brown bullshitted:
=======================

Ordinary incandescents have a low-pressure argon fill.

** No they don\'t - most use Nitrogen.

Cite please.

** Fuck you, Google Monkey half wit.

UK makers seem to favour (impure) argon for most domestic sizes of
filament bulb (at least back in the day when they still made them).

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Gases.htm

** Bullshit cite.

Googling will find any damn thing you like being said by SOMEONE.

In practice for economic reasons it is an argon rich trace nitrogen mix
at lowish pressure.

** Argon gas is many times MORE expensive the nitrogen for little benefit.
FYI shithead.

All the lamps I see come from China or Indonesia.
Wanna find out for SURE what they use ??
You will need to pay a visit.



....... Phil

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 6:56:44 AM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:

Martin Brown bullshitted:
======================
Ordinary incandescents have a low-pressure argon fill.

** No they don\'t - most use Nitrogen.

Cite please.
** Fuck you, Google Monkey half wit.
UK makers seem to favour (impure) argon for most domestic sizes of
filament bulb (at least back in the day when they still made them).

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Gases.htm
** Bullshit cite.

Googling will find any damn thing you like being said by SOMEONE.

In practice for economic reasons it is an argon rich trace nitrogen mix
at lowish pressure.
** Argon gas is many times MORE expensive the nitrogen for little benefit..
FYI shithead.

Phil hasn\'t got a clue how little gas it takes to fill a light-bulb. The cost of the gas is inconsequential.

All the lamps I see come from China or Indonesia.
Wanna find out for SURE what they use ??
You will need to pay a visit.

No. You can break a bulb in an evacuated space and use a mass-spectrometer to see the proportion of argon to nitrogen in the gas inside the bulb. A cheap time-of-flight mass spectrometer would do the job. You\'d need friends at university or a research lab to it cheaply - Phil might have to go to China pr Indonesia to find out, but a less psychopathic character wouldn\'t have to.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Allison]

IEEE Lunatic Bill bill....@ieee.org wrote:
================================
Martin Brown bullshitted:

=======================

Ordinary incandescents have a low-pressure argon fill.

** No they don\'t - most use Nitrogen.

Cite please.
** Fuck you, Google Monkey half wit.

UK makers seem to favour (impure) argon for most domestic sizes of
filament bulb (at least back in the day when they still made them).

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Gases.htm
** Bullshit cite.

Googling will find any damn thing you like being said by SOMEONE.

In practice for economic reasons it is an argon rich trace nitrogen mix
at lowish pressure.

** Argon gas is many times MORE expensive the nitrogen for little benefit.
FYI shithead.

Phil hasn\'t got a clue how little gas it takes to fill a light-bulb.

** Nitrogen is used at 0.5 atmosphere inside bulbs.
The volume varies.....
4/3 pi. r^3 is useful to get a ballpark answer.

> The cost of the gas is inconsequential.

** Not when making milions per day.

All the lamps I see come from China or Indonesia.
Wanna find out for SURE what they use ??
You will need to pay a visit.

No. You can break a bulb in an evacuated space and use a mass-spectrometer

** A visit to Indonesia would be cheaper and more fun.

But fucking, bullshitting arseholes like YOU need a short trip to hell.



..... Phil

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 1:15:33 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:

IEEE Lunatic Bill bill....@ieee.org wrote:
===============================> Martin Brown bullshitted:
=======================

Ordinary incandescents have a low-pressure argon fill.

** No they don\'t - most use Nitrogen.

Cite please.
** Fuck you, Google Monkey half wit.

UK makers seem to favour (impure) argon for most domestic sizes of
filament bulb (at least back in the day when they still made them).

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Gases.htm
** Bullshit cite.

Googling will find any damn thing you like being said by SOMEONE.

In practice for economic reasons it is an argon rich trace nitrogen mix
at lowish pressure.

** Argon gas is many times MORE expensive the nitrogen for little benefit.
FYI shithead.

Phil hasn\'t got a clue how little gas it takes to fill a light-bulb.
** Nitrogen is used at 0.5 atmosphere inside bulbs.
The volume varies.....
4/3 pi. r^3 is useful to get a ballpark answer.

But you haven\'t bothered to do that.

The cost of the gas is inconsequential.

** Not when making millions per day.

It\'s still going to be much less than the cost of the glass in the same light bulb. As I said, inconsequential.

All the lamps I see come from China or Indonesia.
Wanna find out for SURE what they use ??
You will need to pay a visit.

No. You can break a bulb in an evacuated space and use a mass-spectrometer to see the proportion of argon to nitrogen in the gas inside the bulb. A cheap time-of-flight mass spectrometer would do the job. You\'d need friends at university or a research lab to it cheaply - Phil might have to go to China or Indonesia to find out, but a less psychopathic character wouldn\'t have to.

** A visit to Indonesia would be cheaper and more fun.

But you still have to get into an Indonesian bulb factory and get them to reveal their industrial secrets to you. Learning Bahasa Indonesian might be a necessary part of the process. You winning personality wouldn\'t make that all that easy.

> But fucking, bullshitting arseholes like YOU need a short trip to hell.

I might, if I actually was one. You don\'t like it when your assertions of competence are shown up, and do produce intemperate responses.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Allison]

IEEE Lunatic Bill bill....@ieee.org wrote:

================================

Phil hasn\'t got a clue how little gas it takes to fill a light-bulb.

** Nitrogen is used at 0.5 atmosphere inside bulbs.
The volume varies.....
4/3 pi. r^3 is useful to get a ballpark answer.

But you haven\'t bothered to do that.

** There was *absolutely* no need to ever consider doing so.
============================================

The cost of the gas is inconsequential.

** Not when making millions per day.

It\'s still going to be much less than the cost of the glass in the same light bulb.
As I said, inconsequential.

** Not for the bean counter/ manager who authorises payment for all the expensive cylinders of gas.

Blind freddy can easily see the point, but not a deadhead * trolling * cunt like you.

** A visit to Indonesia would be cheaper and more fun.

But you still have to get into an Indonesian bulb factory and get them to reveal their industrial secrets to you.

** ROTFLMAO !!!!!

> Learning Bahasa Indonesian might be a necessary part of the process.

** FFS stop it Bill - you rabid insanity is beyond belief !!.

But fucking, bullshitting arseholes like YOU need a short trip to hell.

I might, if I actually was one.

** Not only ARE you one, you have been an utter arsehole your entire life.

> You don\'t like it when your assertions of competence are shown up,

** You have shown *nothing* of the sort.
And you never have.

You brain fucked pile of shit.


...... Phil

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 2:06:05 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:

IEEE Lunatic Bill bill....@ieee.org wrote:
================================

Phil hasn\'t got a clue how little gas it takes to fill a light-bulb..

** Nitrogen is used at 0.5 atmosphere inside bulbs.
The volume varies.....
4/3 pi. r^3 is useful to get a ballpark answer.

But you haven\'t bothered to do that.

** There was *absolutely* no need to ever consider doing so.

Sure. A hand-waving invented justification is all you can ever imagine.

The cost of the gas is inconsequential.

** Not when making millions per day.

It\'s still going to be much less than the cost of the glass in the same light bulb.
As I said, inconsequential.

** Not for the bean counter/ manager who authorises payment for all the expensive cylinders of gas.

Snort.

> Blind freddy can easily see the point, but not a deadhead * trolling * cunt like you.

Have you ever sat in on that kind of discussion? You\'ve got the imagination to invent all kinds of idiot economies, but you haven\'t been around to see what happens to that kind of penny-pinching time-waster.

** A visit to Indonesia would be cheaper and more fun.

But you still have to get into an Indonesian bulb factory and get them to reveal their industrial secrets to you.

** ROTFLMAO !!!!!

Learning Bahasa Indonesian might be a necessary part of the process.

** FFS stop it Bill - you rabid insanity is beyond belief !!.

While Phil\'s rabid insanity is an obvious matter of fact.

But fucking, bullshitting arseholes like YOU need a short trip to hell.

I might, if I actually was one.

** Not only ARE you one, you have been an utter arsehole your entire life..

And how would you think you know that? It\'s one more of your inane extrapolations from evidence that you don\'t actually understand,

You don\'t like it when your assertions of competence are shown up,

** You have shown *nothing* of the sort.
And you never have.

You do like to think that, and with you the wish is all you need to get you to all kinds of bizarre and fatuous conclusions.

> You brain fucked pile of shit.

Really? You dropped out of a bachelors course - I persisted at university until I\'d got a Ph.D. This doesn\'t say a whole hell of a lot, but it does suggest that your brain has worse problems than mine, at least from time to time. Your obsession with seeing signs of autism in everybody in sight might to point to such a problem.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 02/01/2022 02:06, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 6:56:44 AM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com
wrote:
Martin Brown bullshitted: =======================

Ordinary incandescents have a low-pressure argon fill.

** No they don\'t - most use Nitrogen.

Cite please.
** Fuck you, Google Monkey half wit.

Seems to me like you don\'t have one or you would give it!

UK makers seem to favour (impure) argon for most domestic sizes
of filament bulb (at least back in the day when they still made
them).

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/IN%20Gases.htm
** Bullshit cite.

Googling will find any damn thing you like being said by SOMEONE.

True enough. But then why should anyone believe your wild assertions?

In practice for economic reasons it is an argon rich trace
nitrogen mix at lowish pressure.
** Argon gas is many times MORE expensive the nitrogen for little
benefit. FYI shithead.

Phil hasn\'t got a clue how little gas it takes to fill a light-bulb.
The cost of the gas is inconsequential.

All the lamps I see come from China or Indonesia. Wanna find out
for SURE what they use ?? You will need to pay a visit.

No. You can break a bulb in an evacuated space and use a
mass-spectrometer to see the proportion of argon to nitrogen in the
gas inside the bulb. A cheap time-of-flight mass spectrometer would
do the job. You\'d need friends at university or a research lab to it
cheaply - Phil might have to go to China pr Indonesia to find out,
but a less psychopathic character wouldn\'t have to.

It is even easier than that.

Take a blown filament lightbulb and excite the gas inside with a
suitably high voltage ac supply. The resulting emission spectrum tells
you quite clearly what gas(ses) are present. A classic CD with an
aluminised surface makes an excellent high resolution spectrometer.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Martin Brown]

On 01/01/2022 11:51, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, January 1, 2022 at 1:15:58 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Thirdwit strikes again : whit3rd wrote:

=============================

Conduction in gasses certainly IS a science project, and was
quite active half a century ago (creation of fluorescent lights)
and important much earlier (big rectifiers with mercury gas).

Georges Charpak got the physics Nobel in 1992 for his contributions.

** Fucking Google Monkey bullshit.

Probably not. I\'ve got a copy of

https://www.amazon.com.au/Conduction-Electricity-through-Gases-Thomson/dp/110741427X/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3RBKX5Y0A65ZO&keywords=conduction+of+electricity+through+gases+j+j+thomson&qid=1641037160&sprefix=Conduction+of+Electricity+through+Gases%2Caps%2C400&sr=8-3

It was first published in 1903, and there was a second edition of 1933. My copy was cheap paper-back re-print from 1960\'s, which I bought when I was working on starting an driving an arc lamp around 1972.

Since the 1990\'s you have been able to find some of that kind of stuff with Google, but before that you pretty much had to buy a book.
Sir Joseph John Thomson (1856–1940) was a British physicist who is credited with the discovery of the electron, but he also wrote a rather useful textbook.

Geissler tubes of low pressure gasses predate both. Pretty much from the
invention of the vacuum pump they had played with these effects.

They didn\'t know what they were seeing but when electricity was still
very new it became a feature in Victorian science shows. My friend has a
few and with HT neon transformer they mostly still glow quite nicely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geissler_tube

The odd one has gone bad but they have very interesting shapes.

http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyApparatus/Static_Electricity/Geissler_Tubes/Geissler_Tubes.html

Science lab ones tend to be much simpler and h or H shaped.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown