siegfreid and roy and electronics

[cornytheclown]

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

cornytheclown wrote:

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
---------------------

People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
their neck snapped like a twig.

In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[A E]

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

cornytheclown wrote:

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
---------------------
People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
their neck snapped like a twig.

In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
-Steve

As long as we can put one in your 'brain' and control your unfortunate spewage
on the Net, sure.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

A E wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

cornytheclown wrote:

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
---------------------
People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
their neck snapped like a twig.

In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
-Steve

As long as we can put one in your 'brain' and control your unfortunate spewage
on the Net, sure.
--------------------

Go blind yourself.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[John Fortier]

"cornytheclown" <cornytheclown@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8e8f59d4.0310041858.18ff6dc@posting.google.com...

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.

Or, alternately, a shock collar on the "trainer" to give the lion or tiger a
better chance!

John

 

[A E]

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

A E wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

cornytheclown wrote:

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
---------------------
People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
their neck snapped like a twig.

In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
-Steve

As long as we can put one in your 'brain' and control your unfortunate spewage
on the Net, sure.
--------------------
Go blind yourself.

-Steve

Look, seeing that humans will kill each other at the drop of a hat, your
'suggestion' that 'in the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals',
implies that YOU, monkey boy, should be the first in line to volunteer!
You are an idiot, but an entertaining one.

 

[John Fortier]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3F7F8A93.FB9@armory.com...

cornytheclown wrote:

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
---------------------
People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
their neck snapped like a twig.

In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

Does "all dangerous animals" include humans?

We've killed more of each other than any other species has managed, with the
possible exception of the malaria mosquito.

John

 

[Dr. Anton Squeegee]

In article <8e8f59d4.0310041858.18ff6dc@posting.google.com>,
cornytheclown@hotmail.com says...

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

Speaking as one who has worked with animals, I'm extremely pleased
to say that shock collars, at least for exotic animal training, are an
idea that went out with the 70's.

A typical (extremely effective) method of discouraging a pissed-
off big cat is to shoot off a CO2 fire extinguisher in front of them.
The sudden eruption of noise and white stuff startles them away, and I
have yet to see a case where it was not effective.

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

While there is truth to this, it's also important to remember that
anyone can make a mistake, and you are correct that no big cat is ever
truly tamed.

I've seen video of the Siegfried and Roy show, and it makes me
cringe. They take way too many chances, and they're doing it for the
fluff and sparkle of their idea of showmanship, rather than simply
presenting what the cats are capable of. If something nasty happened,
then I can only say that they brought it on themselves.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.

I think you should try the shock collar idea on yourself. Seems
like you need a bit of a jolt before you think of posting such drivel to
Usenet.

Do some reading on animal training techniques, and try talking to
some actual trainers (preferably one of the veterans in the field, like
Ron Whitfield), before you go fronting such asinine ideas about the use
of deadly force on an endangered species.

I'm not going to say anything more because I no longer trust
myself to keep a civil tongue in my head.


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

 

[Fleetie]

We've killed more of each other than any other species has managed, with the
possible exception of the malaria mosquito.

That's really complete shite, isn't it? Did you stop even for a moment
to think what you were posting then?

Humans have only been around for a few tens of thousands of years.
Many other species have ben around for millions, and also are
far more numerous at any given moment than are humans.

What a pile of asinine shite you posted!


Martin

 

[John Fortier]

"Fleetie" <fleetie@fleetie.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aN_fb.6364$RU4.61933@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...

We've killed more of each other than any other species has managed, with
the
possible exception of the malaria mosquito.

That's really complete shite, isn't it? Did you stop even for a moment
to think what you were posting then?

Humans have only been around for a few tens of thousands of years.
Many other species have ben around for millions, and also are
far more numerous at any given moment than are humans.

What a pile of asinine shite you posted!


Martin


What the hell are you gibbering about, Martin? Has any other large animal

killed millions of humans? Was Adolf Hitler a tiger, was Stalin a wolf or
Pol Pot an aligator. Of course not. they and their minions were humans. We
kill more of each other than any other large creature and how long we have
been around has nothing to do with it.

True, there are more termites than humans, more soldier ants and, for that
matter, cockroaches But these creatures don't go our of their way to kill
us. We do that for ourselves.

Now, what's your problem with that, apart from the truth of it?

By the way, if you disagree with me, there are far more telling and
effective ways of letting me know that than posting badly spelled abuse.

The origin of this thread was the scoreline "Tiger 1, Human 0" (at least
temporarily). What I am trying to point out is that, even though animals
such as tigers may consider us fair game, they don't kill as many of us as
we do ourselves.

And before anyone picks me up on it, I know perfectly well that wolves are
deeply maligned and that there is no recorded case of a sane wolf attacking
a human. In fact, in most ways, we could learn a lot from wolves.

A large mammal known as John

 

[R. Steve Walz]

A E wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

A E wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" wrote:

cornytheclown wrote:

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
---------------------
People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
their neck snapped like a twig.

In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
-Steve

As long as we can put one in your 'brain' and control your unfortunate spewage
on the Net, sure.
--------------------
Go blind yourself.

-Steve

Look, seeing that humans will kill each other at the drop of a hat, your
'suggestion' that 'in the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals',
implies that YOU, monkey boy, should be the first in line to volunteer!
You are an idiot, but an entertaining one.
-------------------

Futurists have no other alternative but to believe this will be so.
It culminates a trend of us becoming master-predator-controller of
the planet. If we do it right we'll keep and re-expand the forests,
but it is we who will hunt/harvest and utilize the game that will
result from forested areas, instead of raising cattle as we have
been. Grass-fed free-range meat is MUCH better for us anyway,
providing an almost entirely heavy-fat-free meat that the Diabetes
Association nutritional guides indicate as low-fat as water-packed
tuna!! This includes bison and elk, and other large and small
species, while we retain a forest that has few or no dangers to us
and where we will likely be living more and more by choice.

As much as some think they are "cute", we do not absolutely need
bears, lions, tigers, wolves, or any predators bigger than kitfoxes.
We CAN husband the "wild", and we probably will.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

John Fortier wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3F7F8A93.FB9@armory.com...
cornytheclown wrote:

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
---------------------
People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
their neck snapped like a twig.

In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

Does "all dangerous animals" include humans?
---------------

The right ones, yes.

We've killed more of each other than any other species has managed, with the
possible exception of the malaria mosquito.

John
------------------

And everything else you're leaving out.

We'll do away with human predators as well.
It's simple futurism, inevitable.

We're talking hundreds or thousands or millions of years here, if not
billions.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Jacobe Hazzard]

Look, seeing that humans will kill each other at the drop of a hat,
your 'suggestion' that 'in the future we will have either killed all
dangerous animals', implies that YOU, monkey boy, should be the
first in line to volunteer!
You are an idiot, but an entertaining one.
-------------------
Futurists have no other alternative but to believe this will be so.
It culminates a trend of us becoming master-predator-controller of
the planet. If we do it right we'll keep and re-expand the forests,
but it is we who will hunt/harvest and utilize the game that will
result from forested areas, instead of raising cattle as we have
been. Grass-fed free-range meat is MUCH better for us anyway,
providing an almost entirely heavy-fat-free meat that the Diabetes
Association nutritional guides indicate as low-fat as water-packed
tuna!! This includes bison and elk, and other large and small
species, while we retain a forest that has few or no dangers to us
and where we will likely be living more and more by choice.

As much as some think they are "cute", we do not absolutely need
bears, lions, tigers, wolves, or any predators bigger than kitfoxes.
We CAN husband the "wild", and we probably will.

-Steve

The ecological footprint of meat raised for human consumption is so large as
to make it totally unsustainable, even for the present human population of
the planet. This is even more true of free-range, grass fed game animals.
Even with greatly expanded forest lands, there is no way that meat could
sustain us, unless your plan for the future includes a dramatic decline in
the human population (which it probably does, judging from your posts).

Also, have you given any though to the possible consequences of reducing
global biodiversity by husbanding the "wild" like this? Is this the future
that you think we should work towards, or is it the future you see as being
most likely (but necessarily desirable)?

Adam

 

[John Fortier]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3F80C54E.5E33@armory.com...

John Fortier wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3F7F8A93.FB9@armory.com...
cornytheclown wrote:

It looks to me like with the technology today and the wealth that
entertainers siegfreid and roy have that they would have some sort
of
backup gear like a shock collar or something to control those
tigers........

They said Sig and Roy have been operating since around 1960 with not
even a scratch but fridays show with roy getting whipped around the
stage like he was a ragdoll proves that you can never be too
safe........you cant be too carefull with a cat that weighs over 3
times your own body weight........

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment....but it does seem like they could
have
had some sort of back up device like a strong shock collar to
control
or incapacitate the animal in such an event.

From what I have read over the years... it appears to me that it
would
be possible to store enough energy in a battery powered collar
device
to at least incapacitate or distract the animal long enough for
either
a deadly weapon to be used or for the trainer to be taken to
safety.....its just the time it would take an operator to activate
the
device versus the quickness of the animal that would be important.
---------------------
People seem to like the danger, and then they whine when they get
their neck snapped like a twig.

In the future we will have either killed all dangerous animals, or
rendered them obedient with brain controls and AI dedicated brain
adjuncts. It will be illegal to even let something like that run
around out of control anywhere on the earth's surface.
-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com
ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics
Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

Does "all dangerous animals" include humans?
---------------
The right ones, yes.


We've killed more of each other than any other species has managed, with
the
possible exception of the malaria mosquito.

John
------------------
And everything else you're leaving out.

We'll do away with human predators as well.
It's simple futurism, inevitable.

We're talking hundreds or thousands or millions of years here, if not
billions.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

This thread seems to have wandered quite a way from electronics, but - what
the hell!

We're not, probably, speaking about even thousands of years before nature
bites us on the ass so hard our collective eyes pop out.

How's this for depressing? There is a type of Ebola virus found in monkeys
which is infectious, that is, spread by coughs and sneezes, but which has a
mortality of only 10 to 15%,

There is a type of Ebola virus, found in another type of monkey, which has a
long incubation period and has a mortality of about 30%

Then there is human Ebola which has a mortality of 90%, but which is not
infectious, but rather contagious, that is spread by contact or direct
exchange of fluids.

Put those together in one virus and "boof! As by magic, they were gone!"

And what would the Earth do? Pretty well ignore the entire episode.

It may be later than we think.

John

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Jacobe Hazzard wrote:

Look, seeing that humans will kill each other at the drop of a hat,
your 'suggestion' that 'in the future we will have either killed all
dangerous animals', implies that YOU, monkey boy, should be the
first in line to volunteer!
You are an idiot, but an entertaining one.
-------------------
Futurists have no other alternative but to believe this will be so.
It culminates a trend of us becoming master-predator-controller of
the planet. If we do it right we'll keep and re-expand the forests,
but it is we who will hunt/harvest and utilize the game that will
result from forested areas, instead of raising cattle as we have
been. Grass-fed free-range meat is MUCH better for us anyway,
providing an almost entirely heavy-fat-free meat that the Diabetes
Association nutritional guides indicate as low-fat as water-packed
tuna!! This includes bison and elk, and other large and small
species, while we retain a forest that has few or no dangers to us
and where we will likely be living more and more by choice.

As much as some think they are "cute", we do not absolutely need
bears, lions, tigers, wolves, or any predators bigger than kitfoxes.
We CAN husband the "wild", and we probably will.

-Steve

The ecological footprint of meat raised for human consumption is so large as
to make it totally unsustainable, even for the present human population of
the planet. This is even more true of free-range, grass fed game animals.
Even with greatly expanded forest lands, there is no way that meat could
sustain us, unless your plan for the future includes a dramatic decline in
the human population (which it probably does, judging from your posts).
-----------------------------

That would be best for all of us. Though it need not be done by
attrition, just creative surgery. Salpingectomy and abortion.

Also, have you given any though to the possible consequences of reducing
global biodiversity by husbanding the "wild" like this? Is this the future
that you think we should work towards, or is it the future you see as being
most likely (but necessarily desirable)?

Adam
----------------------

I like meat. Don't you? Well, others do too. You can either offer
developing world people the same as you have, or kill them all.

It is probably the only thing we CAN ACTUALLY get as a world outcome,
given what people demand, AND it is the most desirable.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

John Fortier wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message

This thread seems to have wandered quite a way from electronics, but - what
the hell!

We're not, probably, speaking about even thousands of years before nature
bites us on the ass so hard our collective eyes pop out.
-----------------

I doubt that it's actually capable of that, we're the first
meta-species, one which is beyond evolution.

How's this for depressing? There is a type of Ebola virus found in monkeys
which is infectious, that is, spread by coughs and sneezes, but which has a
mortality of only 10 to 15%,

There is a type of Ebola virus, found in another type of monkey, which has a
long incubation period and has a mortality of about 30%

Then there is human Ebola which has a mortality of 90%, but which is not
infectious, but rather contagious, that is spread by contact or direct
exchange of fluids.

Put those together in one virus and "boof! As by magic, they were gone!"
-------------------------

Not that easy.

And what would the Earth do? Pretty well ignore the entire episode.

It may be later than we think.

John
---------------------

Humans have been 90% wiped out before, and came back stronger.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Alan 'A.J.' Franzman]

"cornytheclown" <cornytheclown@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8e8f59d4.0310041858.18ff6dc@posting.google.com...

I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment.

Getting OT here, but do you know that white tigers are already extinct in the
wild, and if not for S&R and their extensive breeding program, might be
completely extinct? Is the price in this case (being captive and made to
perform) too high for the benefit (survival)?

--
--------------------

Alan "A.J." Franzman

Email: a.j.franzman at verizon dot net

--------------------

 

[Captain Dondo]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:45:37 +0000, Alan 'A.J.' Franzman wrote:

"cornytheclown" <cornytheclown@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8e8f59d4.0310041858.18ff6dc@posting.google.com...
I do not believe in caging or "training" normally wild animals like
this for peoples enterainment.

Getting OT here, but do you know that white tigers are already extinct in the
wild, and if not for S&R and their extensive breeding program, might be
completely extinct? Is the price in this case (being captive and made to
perform) too high for the benefit (survival)?

I thought the white tiger was a captive breed - a freak of nature that was
selectively bred by some royal houses....

-Dondo

 

[John Fortier]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3F826388.1824@armory.com...

John Fortier wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message

This thread seems to have wandered quite a way from electronics, but -
what
the hell!

We're not, probably, speaking about even thousands of years before
nature
bites us on the ass so hard our collective eyes pop out.
-----------------
I doubt that it's actually capable of that, we're the first
meta-species, one which is beyond evolution.


How's this for depressing? There is a type of Ebola virus found in
monkeys
which is infectious, that is, spread by coughs and sneezes, but which
has a
mortality of only 10 to 15%,

There is a type of Ebola virus, found in another type of monkey, which
has a
long incubation period and has a mortality of about 30%

Then there is human Ebola which has a mortality of 90%, but which is not
infectious, but rather contagious, that is spread by contact or direct
exchange of fluids.

Put those together in one virus and "boof! As by magic, they were
gone!"
-------------------------
Not that easy.


And what would the Earth do? Pretty well ignore the entire episode.

It may be later than we think.

John
---------------------
Humans have been 90% wiped out before, and came back stronger.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

It's not the 90% direct mortality rate that will finish us off, it's the
collapse of every system and technology in the world which will do it.
Does anyone imagine that anyone in New York City could survive such an
event, for example.

I cannot recall a historical episode where 90% of all humans were killed
off. Could you let me know to what event you are referring. Oh, and could
you define meta-species as well, please.

Yes, there will be survivors, but cut any species down far enough and you
have insufficient remaining numbers to ensure a breeding population. The
survival of humans as a species would hang on a knife edge.

Steve, I think your post indicates a little too much hubris to make me feel
secure. What we should be doing is not assuming that we're too clever for
nature to bite back, but rather to assume that it will happen and try to
prepare for the eventuality.

It probably won't help. And it needn't be Ebola. That was just an example.
A comet strike, like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs and so many other
species would wipe us out just as effectively. We probably wouldn't see it
coming, and by the time we knew what was happening, it would be far too
late.

This post is depressing even me, but to assume that because we can build big
rockets and clever computers and have wiped out smallpox, we are forever
safe, just flies in the face of reason. The universe isn't friendly to us,
we're all on this one little planet and anything which affects the whole
planet affects us all as well.

Ever heard of the Decan Trapps?

John

 

[R. Steve Walz]

John Fortier wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3F826388.1824@armory.com...
John Fortier wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message

This thread seems to have wandered quite a way from electronics, but -
what
the hell!

We're not, probably, speaking about even thousands of years before
nature
bites us on the ass so hard our collective eyes pop out.
-----------------
I doubt that it's actually capable of that, we're the first
meta-species, one which is beyond evolution.


How's this for depressing? There is a type of Ebola virus found in
monkeys
which is infectious, that is, spread by coughs and sneezes, but which
has a
mortality of only 10 to 15%,

There is a type of Ebola virus, found in another type of monkey, which
has a
long incubation period and has a mortality of about 30%

Then there is human Ebola which has a mortality of 90%, but which is not
infectious, but rather contagious, that is spread by contact or direct
exchange of fluids.

Put those together in one virus and "boof! As by magic, they were
gone!"
-------------------------
Not that easy.


And what would the Earth do? Pretty well ignore the entire episode.

It may be later than we think.

John
---------------------
Humans have been 90% wiped out before, and came back stronger.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

It's not the 90% direct mortality rate that will finish us off, it's the
collapse of every system and technology in the world which will do it.
Does anyone imagine that anyone in New York City could survive such an
event, for example.

I cannot recall a historical episode where 90% of all humans were killed
off. Could you let me know to what event you are referring. Oh, and could
you define meta-species as well, please.

Yes, there will be survivors, but cut any species down far enough and you
have insufficient remaining numbers to ensure a breeding population. The
survival of humans as a species would hang on a knife edge.

Steve, I think your post indicates a little too much hubris to make me feel
secure. What we should be doing is not assuming that we're too clever for
nature to bite back, but rather to assume that it will happen and try to
prepare for the eventuality.

It probably won't help. And it needn't be Ebola. That was just an example.
A comet strike, like the one that wiped out the dinosaurs and so many other
species would wipe us out just as effectively. We probably wouldn't see it
coming, and by the time we knew what was happening, it would be far too
late.

This post is depressing even me, but to assume that because we can build big
rockets and clever computers and have wiped out smallpox, we are forever
safe, just flies in the face of reason. The universe isn't friendly to us,
we're all on this one little planet and anything which affects the whole
planet affects us all as well.
--------------------------

Sure, we have to do the right things, like not take poison, in its
many forms, but things can be forced in many ways without harm. Tell
me what magical reason we'd need big cats for if we killed all the
animals they would kill. I can't think of any good reason. There's
no "magic".

Ever heard of the Decan Trapps?

John
-------------------------

You mean the plain in India that is a flat hard desert? It was
screwed up by excessive intensive planting. It went desert.

They have been reviving it lately and even bringing the water level
back up again using Bill Mollison's Permaculture, which is ANOTHER
example of a kind of intelligent "force" that humans can employ!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public