Shrinking TV electronics

[news13]

On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:32:39 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

Not really. Boards can be repaired, but how many hours of diagnostic
work do you get for the cost of just replacing it?

Almost zip.

It is a toss up between centralised diagnostic and repair automaton Vs
shredding and re-mining of ingredients, which to the new method of
dealing with e-waste.

 

[news13]

On Fri, 03 Apr 2015 06:58:55 +0800, Clocky wrote:

On 2/04/2015 11:57 AM, news13 wrote:
On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 07:14:58 +1100, Don McKenzie wrote:


When you can buy a 42" set for $300, and it passes the out of warranty
period, who would really spend $150 or more on a repair?
Game over.

Yep, Changhong $348 on Chinese New Year special at Bing Lee with 3year
on-site warranty.

It was a no brainer to replace the 40" glass that requires a pair of
islanders to move whilst we reach agreement on which brand name to buy.

Although, if it is "the best of the Chinese" as claimed by the repair
guy,, that might be a while.



He left off "...at that price".

Nah, we had a good chat as he realised I understood what he was doing and
commented about the board. He comment was that all brands have their
problems. So, shrug. Seriously, otherwise he would be out of work if
anyone made a very reliable brand.
..
I've long given up believing the quality FUD from any manufacturer.


Basically, I think it is a very good buy for the size an warranty. We've
been happy with the picture quality, Poor picture quality was the major
aspect keeping the cost of any other brand in our pocket.

The only other capacity to test is streaming services and digital movies.
The major problem there is that we don't have a spare PC/laptop with the
grunt to do the conversions without significant pausing.

 

[~misfit~]

Once upon a time on usenet Jeßus wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:16:54 +1300, "~misfit~"
shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Clocky wrote:
On 2/04/2015 4:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
On 1/04/2015 11:23 PM, news13 wrote:
On Wed, 01 Apr 2015 15:26:15 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

Scarely worth diagnosing then. Replace that board. If it still
doesn't work, replace the screen. If still no joy, replace the
entire TV.

You wouldn't reach third step. The Screen was fixed into font
surround and you just remove the back to access the only board.

I suspect a lot are like that, but it will take some time for
joe/mary public to accept the only repair is a replacement board
at $X cost as he was still going through the "bring it in for
quoting routine" to someone else on the mobile.

When you can buy a 42" set for $300, and it passes the out of
warranty period, who would really spend $150 or more on a repair?
Game over.

Don...

All this cheapness in everything comes at a terrible price.

I agree - yet few seem to resalise.

Apparently so. How much electronic junk do we generate compared to
even just 20 years ago? When I was a kid, most people had the same TV
for years, even more than a decade.

Yep, same here. Certainly decades.

Fridge, TV, stereo/radio, toaster, stove (maybe)... those things were
pretty much the only electrical devices in the average house...

Ditto.

At least we can export 'eWaste' to China and India for recycling. :-/
Instead of remaking new things out of the same elements I'd rather
have something that lasted longer for each iteration. It's far less
energy intense.

Agreed. Most of my hifi gear is professionally restored old vintage
stuff which was very well built - much better than you will find today
unless you spend big money.

I'm similar. My 'music' speakers are from the 1970s, various amps from early
1970s to 2003 (I have music in almost every room). I use IBM-era ThinkPad
laptops (main machines this 2007 T60 as desktop replacement and a 2003 X32
as portable). My clothes drier is also from the 1970s, the first ever
'electronic' clothes drier to come onto the NZ market, you can set desired
'dryness' on a rotary dial and turn it on. It works via a thermocouple in
the exhaust vent, hotter is drier. Alas, when it's current drive belt wears
out I think I'm buggered (they last about a decade, I don't use the drier
often).

I only replace things that no longer work. However I deliberately try to buy
for longevity and am adept at extending the working lives of most electrical
devices - well all devices actually. My car is 30 years old and I do all of
the maintenance myself.

I have never been comfortable with this current 'throw away society' and
hope that it's a phase in our development and that, in the not too distant
future we'll go back to embracing the philosophy of buying quality goods
that last. The planet can't sustain the current perverse way of doing
things.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 2/04/2015 10:41 PM, F Murtz wrote:

news13 wrote:
On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 07:14:58 +1100, Don McKenzie wrote:


When you can buy a 42" set for $300, and it passes the out of warranty
period, who would really spend $150 or more on a repair?
Game over.

Yep, Changhong $348 on Chinese New Year special at Bing Lee with 3year
on-site warranty.

It was a no brainer to replace the 40" glass that requires a pair of
islanders to move whilst we reach agreement on which brand name to buy.

Although, if it is "the best of the Chinese" as claimed by the repair
guy,, that might be a while.

Aldi just had a 55"/4k ultra hd smart tv for $800.00

But with what viewing angle? When my last CRT TV finally died a while
back, I learnt that there is a significant variability in LCD performance.

Sylvia.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 5/04/2015 4:02 PM, news13 wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 18:32:39 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:


Not really. Boards can be repaired, but how many hours of diagnostic
work do you get for the cost of just replacing it?

Almost zip.

It is a toss up between centralised diagnostic and repair automaton Vs
shredding and re-mining of ingredients, which to the new method of
dealing with e-waste.

Even if one could make an automaton to repair boards, it might still be
uneconomic. I can't imagine such an automaton would come cheap, and the
capital cost would have to be recouped somehow. I would also suspect
that finance to develop such a machine would be hard to come by - who's
going to bet against the cost of new boards continuing to drop?

Further, that actual cost of replacement boards has to be a fraction of
what is charged for them - the latter being what the market will bear.
If an automatic repair machine started undercutting replacement prices,
the latter would simply drop accordingly.

Sylvia.

 

[Clocky]

On 6/04/2015 9:08 AM, ~misfit~ wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Jeßus wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:16:54 +1300, "~misfit~"
shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Clocky wrote:
On 2/04/2015 4:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
On 1/04/2015 11:23 PM, news13 wrote:
On Wed, 01 Apr 2015 15:26:15 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

Scarely worth diagnosing then. Replace that board. If it still
doesn't work, replace the screen. If still no joy, replace the
entire TV.

You wouldn't reach third step. The Screen was fixed into font
surround and you just remove the back to access the only board.

I suspect a lot are like that, but it will take some time for
joe/mary public to accept the only repair is a replacement board
at $X cost as he was still going through the "bring it in for
quoting routine" to someone else on the mobile.

When you can buy a 42" set for $300, and it passes the out of
warranty period, who would really spend $150 or more on a repair?
Game over.

Don...

All this cheapness in everything comes at a terrible price.

I agree - yet few seem to resalise.

Apparently so. How much electronic junk do we generate compared to
even just 20 years ago? When I was a kid, most people had the same TV
for years, even more than a decade.

Yep, same here. Certainly decades.

Fridge, TV, stereo/radio, toaster, stove (maybe)... those things were
pretty much the only electrical devices in the average house...

Ditto.

At least we can export 'eWaste' to China and India for recycling. :-/
Instead of remaking new things out of the same elements I'd rather
have something that lasted longer for each iteration. It's far less
energy intense.

Agreed. Most of my hifi gear is professionally restored old vintage
stuff which was very well built - much better than you will find today
unless you spend big money.

I'm similar. My 'music' speakers are from the 1970s, various amps from early
1970s to 2003 (I have music in almost every room). I use IBM-era ThinkPad
laptops (main machines this 2007 T60 as desktop replacement and a 2003 X32
as portable). My clothes drier is also from the 1970s, the first ever
'electronic' clothes drier to come onto the NZ market, you can set desired
'dryness' on a rotary dial and turn it on. It works via a thermocouple in
the exhaust vent, hotter is drier. Alas, when it's current drive belt wears
out I think I'm buggered (they last about a decade, I don't use the drier
often).

I only replace things that no longer work. However I deliberately try to buy
for longevity and am adept at extending the working lives of most electrical
devices - well all devices actually. My car is 30 years old and I do all of
the maintenance myself.

I have never been comfortable with this current 'throw away society' and
hope that it's a phase in our development and that, in the not too distant
future we'll go back to embracing the philosophy of buying quality goods
that last. The planet can't sustain the current perverse way of doing
things.

Agreed 100%.

 

[news13]

On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:38:58 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 5/04/2015 4:02 PM, news13 wrote:

It is a toss up between centralised diagnostic and repair automaton Vs
shredding and re-mining of ingredients, which to the new method of
dealing with e-waste.


Even if one could make an automaton to repair boards, it might still be
uneconomic. I can't imagine such an automaton would come cheap, and the
capital cost would have to be recouped somehow. I would also suspect
that finance to develop such a machine would be hard to come by - who's
going to bet against the cost of new boards continuing to drop?

The big iron computer industry had them briefly when they provided
service contracts.

Further, that actual cost of replacement boards has to be a fraction of
what is charged for them - the latter being what the market will bear.

Produce, store, ship and install. The techo revelaed a couple of figures
when he said it costs $150

If an automatic repair machine started undercutting replacement prices,
the latter would simply drop accordingly.

Err, obvious, unless someone could pocket the difference.

 

[Jeßus]

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 13:08:56 +1200, "~misfit~"
<shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Jeßus wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:16:54 +1300, "~misfit~"
shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Clocky wrote:
On 2/04/2015 4:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
On 1/04/2015 11:23 PM, news13 wrote:
On Wed, 01 Apr 2015 15:26:15 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

Scarely worth diagnosing then. Replace that board. If it still
doesn't work, replace the screen. If still no joy, replace the
entire TV.

You wouldn't reach third step. The Screen was fixed into font
surround and you just remove the back to access the only board.

I suspect a lot are like that, but it will take some time for
joe/mary public to accept the only repair is a replacement board
at $X cost as he was still going through the "bring it in for
quoting routine" to someone else on the mobile.

When you can buy a 42" set for $300, and it passes the out of
warranty period, who would really spend $150 or more on a repair?
Game over.

Don...

All this cheapness in everything comes at a terrible price.

I agree - yet few seem to resalise.

Apparently so. How much electronic junk do we generate compared to
even just 20 years ago? When I was a kid, most people had the same TV
for years, even more than a decade.

Yep, same here. Certainly decades.

Fridge, TV, stereo/radio, toaster, stove (maybe)... those things were
pretty much the only electrical devices in the average house...

Ditto.

At least we can export 'eWaste' to China and India for recycling. :-/
Instead of remaking new things out of the same elements I'd rather
have something that lasted longer for each iteration. It's far less
energy intense.

Agreed. Most of my hifi gear is professionally restored old vintage
stuff which was very well built - much better than you will find today
unless you spend big money.

I'm similar. My 'music' speakers are from the 1970s, various amps from early
1970s to 2003 (I have music in almost every room). I use IBM-era ThinkPad
laptops (main machines this 2007 T60 as desktop replacement and a 2003 X32
as portable). My clothes drier is also from the 1970s, the first ever
'electronic' clothes drier to come onto the NZ market, you can set desired
'dryness' on a rotary dial and turn it on. It works via a thermocouple in
the exhaust vent, hotter is drier. Alas, when it's current drive belt wears
out I think I'm buggered (they last about a decade, I don't use the drier
often).

I only replace things that no longer work. However I deliberately try to buy
for longevity and am adept at extending the working lives of most electrical
devices - well all devices actually. My car is 30 years old and I do all of
the maintenance myself.

I'm much the same most of those items, including certain Hoover
washing machines, for which I have a lifetime's worth of spare parts


I have a few 90's era Hilux 4X4s, a 1979 Suzuki 4X4 and 2001 Subaru, I
do all work on all but the Subaru, which I do basic stuff, but I'm NOT
changing the clutch (for example) in the damned thing due to the time
and labour involved...

Computers are a slight different matter - I'll keep using the same
ones until they simply become too slow to handle the OS and/or
programmes. That said, I still have some 386 and 486 machines for the
sake of nostalgia.

I have never been comfortable with this current 'throw away society' and
hope that it's a phase in our development and that, in the not too distant
future we'll go back to embracing the philosophy of buying quality goods
that last. The planet can't sustain the current perverse way of doing
things.

Agreed, and the current attitudes can't be sustained indefinitely.

 

[~misfit~]

Once upon a time on usenet Jeßus wrote:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 13:08:56 +1200, "~misfit~"
shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Jeßus wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:16:54 +1300, "~misfit~"
shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Clocky wrote:
On 2/04/2015 4:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
On 1/04/2015 11:23 PM, news13 wrote:
On Wed, 01 Apr 2015 15:26:15 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

Scarely worth diagnosing then. Replace that board. If it still
doesn't work, replace the screen. If still no joy, replace the
entire TV.

You wouldn't reach third step. The Screen was fixed into font
surround and you just remove the back to access the only board.

I suspect a lot are like that, but it will take some time for
joe/mary public to accept the only repair is a replacement board
at $X cost as he was still going through the "bring it in for
quoting routine" to someone else on the mobile.

When you can buy a 42" set for $300, and it passes the out of
warranty period, who would really spend $150 or more on a repair?
Game over.

Don...

All this cheapness in everything comes at a terrible price.

I agree - yet few seem to resalise.

Apparently so. How much electronic junk do we generate compared to
even just 20 years ago? When I was a kid, most people had the same
TV for years, even more than a decade.

Yep, same here. Certainly decades.

Fridge, TV, stereo/radio, toaster, stove (maybe)... those things
were pretty much the only electrical devices in the average house...

Ditto.

At least we can export 'eWaste' to China and India for recycling.
:-/ Instead of remaking new things out of the same elements I'd
rather have something that lasted longer for each iteration. It's
far less energy intense.

Agreed. Most of my hifi gear is professionally restored old vintage
stuff which was very well built - much better than you will find
today unless you spend big money.

I'm similar. My 'music' speakers are from the 1970s, various amps
from early 1970s to 2003 (I have music in almost every room). I use
IBM-era ThinkPad laptops (main machines this 2007 T60 as desktop
replacement and a 2003 X32 as portable). My clothes drier is also
from the 1970s, the first ever 'electronic' clothes drier to come
onto the NZ market, you can set desired 'dryness' on a rotary dial
and turn it on. It works via a thermocouple in the exhaust vent,
hotter is drier. Alas, when it's current drive belt wears out I
think I'm buggered (they last about a decade, I don't use the drier
often).

I only replace things that no longer work. However I deliberately
try to buy for longevity and am adept at extending the working lives
of most electrical devices - well all devices actually. My car is 30
years old and I do all of the maintenance myself.

I'm much the same most of those items, including certain Hoover
washing machines, for which I have a lifetime's worth of spare parts

Heh! Know that feeling - I collect spares for things that I like before they
go *too* obsolete.

I have a few 90's era Hilux 4X4s, a 1979 Suzuki 4X4 and 2001 Subaru, I
do all work on all but the Subaru, which I do basic stuff, but I'm NOT
changing the clutch (for example) in the damned thing due to the time
and labour involved...

Yep. I'm also limited by having a *really* crook back - one of the hardest
things for me to do in fact is stand straight again after leaning over an
engine bay even for as little as 20 seconds. That said part of being an
invalid is the (lack of) income so I eat my weeks worth of morphine and get
on with it if it needs doing. I'd rather live with extra pain for a week or
so than extra debt for months and months.

I run a 1985 Honda City "AA". I understand they were only imported into Aus
as vans (I'm in NZ), without the back seat and with a lower state of tune
(including no contactless-ignition distributor). I've taken the back seat
out of mine anyway to lighten the load. I like that it's got SFA
electronics (ironically given the newgroup) so I can draw on the years I
spent working on cars as a youth to fix anything that might go wrong. Other
than the obvious limitions of having a crook back. That said not much goes
wrong with it <touches wood> and it runs in the smell of an oily rag.

Computers are a slight different matter - I'll keep using the same
ones until they simply become too slow to handle the OS and/or
programmes. That said, I still have some 386 and 486 machines for the
sake of nostalgia.

Yep. I have a desktop for the odd bit of gaming that I built in 2007ish when
I had some extra money from having a boarder. I built it to last, ASUS
motherboard with all solid caps, QX9650 CPU, RAM is maxed at 8 GB and I used
a few bucks I got for Xmas from family to put a 120 GB SSD in it. I reckon
it'll last me another five years at least <touches wood again>.

I have never been comfortable with this current 'throw away society'
and hope that it's a phase in our development and that, in the not
too distant future we'll go back to embracing the philosophy of
buying quality goods that last. The planet can't sustain the current
perverse way of doing things.

Agreed, and the current attitudes can't be sustained indefinitely.

Yeah.

Also it's an economic system that's not set up with people who have marginal
incomes in mind that's for sure. If a major appliance or other expensive
thing fails for me it can take a couple years to pay it off*. Increasingly
I'm finding that a lot of appliances don't last much past their warranties
and that's scary.

* Ironically wefare will help me pay off new appliances on HP but if I
decide to 'buy wise', save money and get a quality product second-hand
instead of a cheap thing new then I'm on my own w/r/t paying for it. What
moron came up with that system?
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)

 

[Clocky]

On 11/04/2015 12:31 PM, dkadosh@zoa.org wrote:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 13:08:56 +1200, "~misfit~"
shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Jeßus wrote:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:16:54 +1300, "~misfit~"
shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com> wrote:

Once upon a time on usenet Clocky wrote:
On 2/04/2015 4:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
On 1/04/2015 11:23 PM, news13 wrote:
On Wed, 01 Apr 2015 15:26:15 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

Scarely worth diagnosing then. Replace that board. If it still
doesn't work, replace the screen. If still no joy, replace the
entire TV.

You wouldn't reach third step. The Screen was fixed into font
surround and you just remove the back to access the only board.

I suspect a lot are like that, but it will take some time for
joe/mary public to accept the only repair is a replacement board
at $X cost as he was still going through the "bring it in for
quoting routine" to someone else on the mobile.

When you can buy a 42" set for $300, and it passes the out of
warranty period, who would really spend $150 or more on a repair?
Game over.

Don...

All this cheapness in everything comes at a terrible price.

I agree - yet few seem to resalise.

Apparently so. How much electronic junk do we generate compared to
even just 20 years ago? When I was a kid, most people had the same TV
for years, even more than a decade.

Yep, same here. Certainly decades.

Fridge, TV, stereo/radio, toaster, stove (maybe)... those things were
pretty much the only electrical devices in the average house...

Ditto.

At least we can export 'eWaste' to China and India for recycling. :-/
Instead of remaking new things out of the same elements I'd rather
have something that lasted longer for each iteration. It's far less
energy intense.

Agreed. Most of my hifi gear is professionally restored old vintage
stuff which was very well built - much better than you will find today
unless you spend big money.

I'm similar. My 'music' speakers are from the 1970s, various amps from early
1970s to 2003 (I have music in almost every room). I use IBM-era ThinkPad
laptops (main machines this 2007 T60 as desktop replacement and a 2003 X32
as portable). My clothes drier is also from the 1970s, the first ever
'electronic' clothes drier to come onto the NZ market, you can set desired
'dryness' on a rotary dial and turn it on. It works via a thermocouple in
the exhaust vent, hotter is drier. Alas, when it's current drive belt wears
out I think I'm buggered (they last about a decade, I don't use the drier
often).

I only replace things that no longer work. However I deliberately try to buy
for longevity and am adept at extending the working lives of most electrical
devices - well all devices actually. My car is 30 years old and I do all of
the maintenance myself.

I'm much the same most of those items, including certain Hoover
washing machines, for which I have a lifetime's worth of spare parts


I have a few 90's era Hilux 4X4s, a 1979 Suzuki 4X4 and 2001 Subaru, I
do all work on all but the Subaru, which I do basic stuff, but I'm NOT
changing the clutch (for example) in the damned thing due to the time
and labour involved...

Probably one of the easiest clutch jobs to do on any car.

Computers are a slight different matter - I'll keep using the same
ones until they simply become too slow to handle the OS and/or
programmes. That said, I still have some 386 and 486 machines for the
sake of nostalgia.


I have never been comfortable with this current 'throw away society' and
hope that it's a phase in our development and that, in the not too distant
future we'll go back to embracing the philosophy of buying quality goods
that last. The planet can't sustain the current perverse way of doing
things.

Agreed, and the current attitudes can't be sustained indefinitely.

Agreed.