Guest
No respect for Doctor Bose at all what.
T
No respect for Doctor Bose at all what.
T
Guest
On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:30:41 AM UTC-5, William Sommerwerck wrote:
Fact is if your speakers didn't cost at least two grand, they are the weakest link in the system. They cheat on the frequency response measurements because when you put in 30 Hz they count the 60 Hz output. That is distortion, oh, the distortion is the other idiocy. You strive to get amps that only have 0.0000000000000001% distortion while your speakers run about 1% distortion even at one watt. Ridiculous, they sold you a bill of goods. Buncha shit really.
Guest
and individual left/right gain controls to make great sounding recordings of
local bands"
No you don't, it is a JVC. The later ones made by Goldstar had no such option. I suggest holding on to that this and maybe checking it for capacitor crap from time to time.
I used to make live recordings of a band on a Beta HIFI. Get this, I used a pair of headphones as microphones with a Shure mic preamp. Sony MDR-CD5. Just hung them up on the wall. Later when dubbing to cassette I used the pre outs of a Marantz reciever with the quadradial control to expand the stereo image, and it worked of course. I has to re-equalize a bit, but so what. It really didn't sound that bad. It sounded better than some King Biscuit Flower Hour. i also had to run it through Dolby B encode twice just to get it to fit in the dynamic range of a cassette tape, even with HX.
Those are clunky ass old slow running machines those Zeniths, but you know what ? They do the job and are reliable. I used to work on VCRs for a living and you know what ? The ones I have the most experience on are the junkiest. I cannot think of any common problems on those right now. I also do not remember the equivalent JVC model nummber, but the FCC ID should not start with AK8. It maybe is AJU or maybe B something, I am not sure anymore. When I was doing VCRs I got so much into the FCC ID I asked for it one the phone before even going, or it coming in. Damn I used to know them by heart. Panasonics, Hitachis, whatever. I would know if I had the parts in stock. Well at least belts and idlers.
I did not fuck around in business.
M
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
It's good to know that there is only one kind if distortion, and that
it isn't additive. It's a good thing that you don't design electronics.
It's good to know that there is only one kind if distortion, and that
it isn't additive. It's a good thing that you don't design electronics.
P
Phil Allison
Guest
<jurb6006@gmail.com>
** Beware the above idiot TROLL !
Long as you exclude recordings and the room.
** Wot bollocks !!
Response testing is done at low power level so harmonics never add anything
to the dB readings.
** Few amps test better than 0.01% THD, over the audio band.
Most cone speakers have about 0.25% THD ( 2H and 3H) at the 1 watt input
level.
Good electrostatic speakers ( eg Quad) can have THD levels of 0.03%, even at
96dB SPL at 1 metre.
.... Phil
** Beware the above idiot TROLL !
** Fact is, speakers are always the weakest link in an audio system.
Long as you exclude recordings and the room.
** Wot bollocks !!
Response testing is done at low power level so harmonics never add anything
to the dB readings.
** Few amps test better than 0.01% THD, over the audio band.
Most cone speakers have about 0.25% THD ( 2H and 3H) at the 1 watt input
level.
Good electrostatic speakers ( eg Quad) can have THD levels of 0.03%, even at
96dB SPL at 1 metre.
.... Phil
W
William Sommerwerck
Guest
True, electrostatic speakers seem to provide the best performance for
the buck. Back in the 70's there was an engineer that lived in the
eastbay, Fremont, CA area that made sets of electrostatic speakers
using readily available materials, standard tools, and kitchen
appliances. His resulting speakers were 'metalized' mylar shrunk in
his oven over a framework. Can't remember his name, and lost all
archival records in the 8 HD crashes we went through. Anybody know who
this man was?
As part of his development during the project, he had taken his
speakers to JBL(?) in the midwest for testing in their lab and found
that at most levels distortion was barely measurable, at 120dB(?)
something like 0.1%, and at 140dB just above 1%. The main problem he
ran into was the 'beaming' effect caused by the size of the diaphragm.
To minimize that beaming, he actually split the audio into several
spectral bands and then drove strips of different widths on the
speakers in order to minimize the effect. Higher frequency narrow
strip.
These speakers in combination with 'direct' recordings gave you an
incredible listening experience. It literally was like sitting next to
the original musician(s) while they werre playing, but they had
recorded many years prior.
Sadly, I never saw the speakers marketed, nor any DIY projects for
building them yourself. Anybody see such?
"The Audio Amateur" ran many articles on building your own electrostatic
speakers. (Graphite was used to make the Mylar conductive.) I believe I have
about 20 years of back copies, if anyone wants to buy them en mass.
The problem with "beaming" has largely been solved. Acoustat used multiple
angled panels. Koss made a four- or five-way system. QUAD subdivides the panel
and uses delay lines to create a quasi-spherical "launch". Martin-Logan
developed a practical way to make a curved panel.
the buck. Back in the 70's there was an engineer that lived in the
eastbay, Fremont, CA area that made sets of electrostatic speakers
using readily available materials, standard tools, and kitchen
appliances. His resulting speakers were 'metalized' mylar shrunk in
his oven over a framework. Can't remember his name, and lost all
archival records in the 8 HD crashes we went through. Anybody know who
this man was?
As part of his development during the project, he had taken his
speakers to JBL(?) in the midwest for testing in their lab and found
that at most levels distortion was barely measurable, at 120dB(?)
something like 0.1%, and at 140dB just above 1%. The main problem he
ran into was the 'beaming' effect caused by the size of the diaphragm.
To minimize that beaming, he actually split the audio into several
spectral bands and then drove strips of different widths on the
speakers in order to minimize the effect. Higher frequency narrow
strip.
These speakers in combination with 'direct' recordings gave you an
incredible listening experience. It literally was like sitting next to
the original musician(s) while they werre playing, but they had
recorded many years prior.
Sadly, I never saw the speakers marketed, nor any DIY projects for
building them yourself. Anybody see such?
"The Audio Amateur" ran many articles on building your own electrostatic
speakers. (Graphite was used to make the Mylar conductive.) I believe I have
about 20 years of back copies, if anyone wants to buy them en mass.
The problem with "beaming" has largely been solved. Acoustat used multiple
angled panels. Koss made a four- or five-way system. QUAD subdivides the panel
and uses delay lines to create a quasi-spherical "launch". Martin-Logan
developed a practical way to make a curved panel.
R
Robert Macy
Guest
On May 29, 10:21 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
the buck. Back in the 70's there was an engineer that lived in the
eastbay, Fremont, CA area that made sets of electrostatic speakers
using readily available materials, standard tools, and kitchen
appliances. His resulting speakers were 'metalized' mylar shrunk in
his oven over a framework. Can't remember his name, and lost all
archival records in the 8 HD crashes we went through. Anybody know who
this man was?
As part of his development during the project, he had taken his
speakers to JBL(?) in the midwest for testing in their lab and found
that at most levels distortion was barely measurable, at 120dB(?)
something like 0.1%, and at 140dB just above 1%. The main problem he
ran into was the 'beaming' effect caused by the size of the diaphragm.
To minimize that beaming, he actually split the audio into several
spectral bands and then drove strips of different widths on the
speakers in order to minimize the effect. Higher frequency narrow
strip.
These speakers in combination with 'direct' recordings gave you an
incredible listening experience. It literally was like sitting next to
the original musician(s) while they werre playing, but they had
recorded many years prior.
Sadly, I never saw the speakers marketed, nor any DIY projects for
building them yourself. Anybody see such?
True, electrostatic speakers seem to provide the best performance for
the buck. Back in the 70's there was an engineer that lived in the
eastbay, Fremont, CA area that made sets of electrostatic speakers
using readily available materials, standard tools, and kitchen
appliances. His resulting speakers were 'metalized' mylar shrunk in
his oven over a framework. Can't remember his name, and lost all
archival records in the 8 HD crashes we went through. Anybody know who
this man was?
As part of his development during the project, he had taken his
speakers to JBL(?) in the midwest for testing in their lab and found
that at most levels distortion was barely measurable, at 120dB(?)
something like 0.1%, and at 140dB just above 1%. The main problem he
ran into was the 'beaming' effect caused by the size of the diaphragm.
To minimize that beaming, he actually split the audio into several
spectral bands and then drove strips of different widths on the
speakers in order to minimize the effect. Higher frequency narrow
strip.
These speakers in combination with 'direct' recordings gave you an
incredible listening experience. It literally was like sitting next to
the original musician(s) while they werre playing, but they had
recorded many years prior.
Sadly, I never saw the speakers marketed, nor any DIY projects for
building them yourself. Anybody see such?
A
amdx
Guest
On 5/29/2013 3:03 AM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
with the quadradial control to expand the stereo image, and it worked of
course. I has to re-equalize a bit,
but so what. It really didn't sound that bad. It sounded better than
some King Biscuit Flower Hour. i also had to run it through Dolby B
encode twice just to get it to fit in the
dynamic range of a cassette tape, even with HX.
of any common problems on those right now. I also do not remember the
equivalent JVC model nummber,
but the FCC ID should not start with AK8. It maybe is AJU or maybe B
something, I am not sure anymore. When I was doing VCRs I got so much
into the FCC ID I asked for it one
the phone before even going, or it coming in. Damn I used to know them
by heart. Panasonics, Hitachis, whatever. I would know if I had the
parts in stock. Well at least belts and idlers.
warranty service for every brand the owner could get. This usually
included service manuals for all those brands. I was in Michigan at
the time and the big box retailers were growing on VCR sales.
ABC Appliance, Fretter's and Highland appliance were stores that sent
us customers and we did their store sold service contracts. In the early
years the manufacturers paid good rates, loved Fisher, $70.00
(early 80's) no matter what you did. Then as years passed and VCR prices
dropped, so did there repair rates.
I started early in the boom and got out when VCR's could be found
at around $200. I have records for over 11,000 repairs. Lots of common
problems made it easy to read the complaint and now what the repair was.
I worked on a commission basis, and could set my own hours, but had
all my equipment at his shop in my own room.
I enjoyed going to Manufacturer's service classes, always left
with a feeling that, these things are amazing!
When I came to realize the VCR gravy train was coming to an end,
DVD's were just coming becoming popular and were still expensive, I
thought about learning about repairing them or move to Florida.
I moved to Florida and glad I didn't start DVD repair, the prices
dropped fast on them.
The good old days! Just tried to call the old TV tech, he was a big
Red Wings Fan, I wanted to console him on the Red Wings loss. Phone
message says they are closed for a week, what's that about?
Mikek
Later when dubbing to cassette I used the pre outs of a Marantz reciever
with the quadradial control to expand the stereo image, and it worked of
course. I has to re-equalize a bit,
but so what. It really didn't sound that bad. It sounded better than
some King Biscuit Flower Hour. i also had to run it through Dolby B
encode twice just to get it to fit in the
dynamic range of a cassette tape, even with HX.
The ones I have the most experience on are the junkiest. I cannot think
of any common problems on those right now. I also do not remember the
equivalent JVC model nummber,
but the FCC ID should not start with AK8. It maybe is AJU or maybe B
something, I am not sure anymore. When I was doing VCRs I got so much
into the FCC ID I asked for it one
the phone before even going, or it coming in. Damn I used to know them
by heart. Panasonics, Hitachis, whatever. I would know if I had the
parts in stock. Well at least belts and idlers.
I did VCR repair from 1980 to 1990, worked in a great shop with
warranty service for every brand the owner could get. This usually
included service manuals for all those brands. I was in Michigan at
the time and the big box retailers were growing on VCR sales.
ABC Appliance, Fretter's and Highland appliance were stores that sent
us customers and we did their store sold service contracts. In the early
years the manufacturers paid good rates, loved Fisher, $70.00
(early 80's) no matter what you did. Then as years passed and VCR prices
dropped, so did there repair rates.
I started early in the boom and got out when VCR's could be found
at around $200. I have records for over 11,000 repairs. Lots of common
problems made it easy to read the complaint and now what the repair was.
I worked on a commission basis, and could set my own hours, but had
all my equipment at his shop in my own room.
I enjoyed going to Manufacturer's service classes, always left
with a feeling that, these things are amazing!
When I came to realize the VCR gravy train was coming to an end,
DVD's were just coming becoming popular and were still expensive, I
thought about learning about repairing them or move to Florida.
I moved to Florida and glad I didn't start DVD repair, the prices
dropped fast on them.
The good old days! Just tried to call the old TV tech, he was a big
Red Wings Fan, I wanted to console him on the Red Wings loss. Phone
message says they are closed for a week, what's that about?
Mikek
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Robert Macy"
the buck. Back in the 70's there was an engineer that lived in the
eastbay, Fremont, CA area that made sets of electrostatic speakers
using readily available materials, standard tools, and kitchen
appliances. His resulting speakers were 'metalized' mylar shrunk in
his oven over a framework.
-------------------------------------------------
** The diaphragm of an ESL needs to have a VERY high resistance coating -
so that charge spreads slowly across the surface and does not move when an
external electric field at audio frequency is applied.
The resistance needed is in the hundreds of megohms per square.
-----------------------------------------------------------
As part of his development during the project, he had taken his
speakers to JBL(?) in the midwest for testing in their lab and found
that at most levels distortion was barely measurable, at 120dB(?)
something like 0.1%, and at 140dB just above 1%. The main problem he
ran into was the 'beaming' effect caused by the size of the diaphragm.
To minimize that beaming, he actually split the audio into several
spectral bands and then drove strips of different widths on the
speakers in order to minimize the effect. Higher frequency narrow
strip.
---------------------------------------------------
** Ever see a Quad ESL57 ?
The tweeter is a 3cm wide strip, mids come from a similar pair of strips
each side and there are two, fairly large rectangular bass panels outside
them. Horizontal dispersion is at least 15 degrees at the highest
frequencies but vertical dispersion is much narrower.
Crossovers are simple 6dB/octave and there is some overlapping - despite
which transient response is near perfect at any frequency.
.... Phil
True, electrostatic speakers seem to provide the best performance for
the buck. Back in the 70's there was an engineer that lived in the
eastbay, Fremont, CA area that made sets of electrostatic speakers
using readily available materials, standard tools, and kitchen
appliances. His resulting speakers were 'metalized' mylar shrunk in
his oven over a framework.
-------------------------------------------------
** The diaphragm of an ESL needs to have a VERY high resistance coating -
so that charge spreads slowly across the surface and does not move when an
external electric field at audio frequency is applied.
The resistance needed is in the hundreds of megohms per square.
-----------------------------------------------------------
As part of his development during the project, he had taken his
speakers to JBL(?) in the midwest for testing in their lab and found
that at most levels distortion was barely measurable, at 120dB(?)
something like 0.1%, and at 140dB just above 1%. The main problem he
ran into was the 'beaming' effect caused by the size of the diaphragm.
To minimize that beaming, he actually split the audio into several
spectral bands and then drove strips of different widths on the
speakers in order to minimize the effect. Higher frequency narrow
strip.
---------------------------------------------------
** Ever see a Quad ESL57 ?
The tweeter is a 3cm wide strip, mids come from a similar pair of strips
each side and there are two, fairly large rectangular bass panels outside
them. Horizontal dispersion is at least 15 degrees at the highest
frequencies but vertical dispersion is much narrower.
Crossovers are simple 6dB/octave and there is some overlapping - despite
which transient response is near perfect at any frequency.
.... Phil
R
Robert Macy
Guest
On May 30, 6:11 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
'interesting' effect with that beaming. If you placed a flat panel
ESL on each side of a person speaking into a microphone; the
microphone was in a dead zone so there was no squeal. Then the beaming
effect literally projected the sound straight in front of the speaker
for a great distance with little noticeable drop in sound level. In
other words, perfect as a PA. The person in the front heard about the
same level as a person 100 feet further away in the back. Actually a
strange effect to witness.
The man I met had NOT known to make strips and his first units had an
'interesting' effect with that beaming. If you placed a flat panel
ESL on each side of a person speaking into a microphone; the
microphone was in a dead zone so there was no squeal. Then the beaming
effect literally projected the sound straight in front of the speaker
for a great distance with little noticeable drop in sound level. In
other words, perfect as a PA. The person in the front heard about the
same level as a person 100 feet further away in the back. Actually a
strange effect to witness.
S
Shaun
Guest
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:b0o5v1Fs15gU1@mid.individual.net...
<jurb6006@gmail.com>
** Beware the above idiot TROLL !
Long as you exclude recordings and the room.
** Wot bollocks !!
Response testing is done at low power level so harmonics never add anything
to the dB readings.
** Few amps test better than 0.01% THD, over the audio band.
Most cone speakers have about 0.25% THD ( 2H and 3H) at the 1 watt input
level.
Good electrostatic speakers ( eg Quad) can have THD levels of 0.03%, even at
96dB SPL at 1 metre.
.... Phil
Phil Allison is the TROLL! on the USEnet Electronics newsgroups. He always
accuses others of being a TROLL, but he is one too.
Stay away from Phil, He is full of shit! and has nothing better to do that
go through these newsgroups and try to get people fitting!
Loser Phil Allison!
<jurb6006@gmail.com>
** Beware the above idiot TROLL !
** Fact is, speakers are always the weakest link in an audio system.
Long as you exclude recordings and the room.
** Wot bollocks !!
Response testing is done at low power level so harmonics never add anything
to the dB readings.
** Few amps test better than 0.01% THD, over the audio band.
Most cone speakers have about 0.25% THD ( 2H and 3H) at the 1 watt input
level.
Good electrostatic speakers ( eg Quad) can have THD levels of 0.03%, even at
96dB SPL at 1 metre.
.... Phil
Phil Allison is the TROLL! on the USEnet Electronics newsgroups. He always
accuses others of being a TROLL, but he is one too.
Stay away from Phil, He is full of shit! and has nothing better to do that
go through these newsgroups and try to get people fitting!
Loser Phil Allison!
Guest
microphone was in a dead zone so there was no squeal. "
I read of a similar test used on production models but do not remember the company. The guy making them story also sounds familiar but that was a long time ago I believe. I don't even remember where I lived back then lol.
Guest
Well I want it done at high levels.
Guest
"
You know damn well that's not what I said.
Guest
"
Show me some with ratings that good. In fact show me speakers with a distortion rating at all and then take a look at the price tag. They do not come from Bestbuy usually.
I will let that slide though because you are not in the US. This really is the land of junk. Look around for real audiophile equipment and you will be a-travelin'.
Oh, and those ratings are probably at 1 watt or 2.83 volts RMS. Well I happen to like things LOUD sometimes.
M
mrfloydin
Guest
such option. I suggest holding on to that this and maybe checking i
for capacitor crap from time to time
I used a pair of headphones as microphones with a Shure mic preamp
Sony MDR-CD5. Just hung them up on the wall. Later when dubbing t
cassette I used the pre outs of a Marantz reciever with the quadradia
control to expand the stereo image, and it worked of course. I has t
re-equalize a bit, but so what. It really didn't sound that bad. I
sounded better than some King Biscuit Flower Hour. i also had to ru
it through Dolby B encode twice just to get it to fit in the dynami
range of a cassette tape, even with HX
you know what ? They do the job and are reliable. I used to work o
VCRs for a living and you know what ? The ones I have the mos
experience on are the junkiest. I cannot think of any common problem
on those right now. I also do not remember the equivalent JVC mode
nummber, but the FCC ID should not start with AK8. It maybe is AJU o
maybe B something, I am not sure anymore. When I was doing VCRs I go
so much into the FCC ID I asked for it one the phone before eve
going, or it coming in. Damn I used to know them by heart. Panasonics
Hitachis, whatever. I would know if I had the parts in stock. Well a
least belts and idlers.
Interesting use of a 1970's era Marantz quad unit