Selecting the right resistor

[Phil Hobbs]

George Herold wrote:

On May 9, 10:16 am, Jesse<je...@nospam.com> wrote:
Jesse<je...@nospam.com> wrote innews:Xns9EDE83B3A34Bjesseatnospamdotcom@127.0.0.1:

I have a DIY cooking project with which I'd appreciate some
help.

snip

Many thanks to all who troubled to share their thoughts. I
thought I would be lucky to get even a single reply, but in
only a few days there have been fifteen from almost as many
individuals.

Rather than reply to each individual message, I'll try to
clarify matters with a single response. I hope everyone who
replied will see this contribution to the thread.

First, to respond to Ecnerwal

Zeroth question - other than you fussing about
it, is this really all that big of a deal? Few
cooking or culturing processes care all that
much about a lousy degree, F or C.

And Rich Grise

I wonder what he cooks at 130°F ą 0.3°F! =:-O

Over the past several years, within the general realm of
"molecular gastronomy" exists that of "sous vide" (French for
"under pressure") cookery.

Misleading nomenclature to the contrary, what this is really
all about is instead of cooking, for example, a beef roast at
350 degrees and removing it when it reaches the desired
internal temperature, it's wrapped and placed in a water bath
of the desired temperature (130 for example) to begin with.
It's then cooked not just for hours, but sometimes for days.

Okay, what's the point?

There are several advantages (google to acquaint yourself with
them) but among the most important is that, as in pit BBQ,
this "low and slow" cooking has a tenderizing effect, offering
the chance to turn the lead of cheap chuck into the gold of
rib eye and having it STILL come out medium rare.

Being a somewhat new approach to cooking, however, it simply
isn't known what effect temperature fluctuation has on the
process. The general consensus is that less is better. I knew
when I bought the thermostat that it only allowed a .3C
variance and was content with that.

Many have used a PID controller, as whit3rd noted, but I
thought that even though it allowed much greater temperature
stability, its complexity was beyond my capacity to properly
configure.

When I discovered that my STC-1000 thermostat exhibited a
small but significant overshoot, I thought it was probably
acceptable but I wondered if there was an easy way to reduce
it.

One obvious approach was to keep the heating element from
getting so hot. I now realize that a simple resistor simply
won't work, it would have to be massive to reduce the current
by the required amount.

I'd like to use a less massive heating element, as Sjouke
Burry pointed out, but finding something ready made that can
be immersed in water, isn't so easy. A home aquarium heater
can be hacked to remove its thermostat, but this isn't a
project I'm comfortable doing.

Rich Grise saw a good solution

Lamp dimmer?

It looks like $5 spent at Home Depot should do the trick.

Mikek had another insight...

Not sure I like the idea of pumping 72* F air bubbles
through a system I'm trying to keep at constant 130*F.

And John Fields...

Are you using the air pump as a bubbler or as a
recirculating pump?

To mix the water.

Originally, I tried placing the stockpot on a hot plate
(connected to the thermostat) without the bubbler, hoping that
natural convection would do the trick, but the overshoot was
pretty bad. Adding the bubbler helped, but using the immersion
heater and bubbler was the best solution so far.

Cooling the water by bubbling room temperature air through it,
I knew, wasn't such a good idea, but the only economical
alternative I could think of was something like a submersible
tabletop fountain pump, like a Sunterra. The question was
whether it would tolerate such hot water. I emailed the
company and inquired, but received no response.

Rather than delay any longer and worried about mixing
electrical current and water, I thought the air pump, despite
its disadvantages, was probably the better option.

Perhaps some who have followed this thread may have a thought
on this topic. Would one of these tiny submersible pumps
function at 130F temperature? For very long? Would it simply
fail and need to be replaced or result in some disaster?

Anyway, for less than $50 - compared to $1400 for a Fisher
laboratory circulator or even $400 for a retail Sous Vide
Supreme - I'm cooking sous vide.

And very happily too. Like pit BBQ, of which I am also a fan,
my few attempts so far have revealed that it can create
genuine culinary magic.

Thanks again to all for so generously sharing their knowledge.

Jesse

Very interesting Jesse,
Do you worry about some kind of bacteria growing at 130F? And how
long do you have to let the meat cook? I was the lunch cook at a
fairly nice restuarant for about a year. The first thing I did when I
came in the morning (~5:30 AM) was to start the prime rib for the
evening. Started at ~220F for a few hours and then dialed down to
170F IIRC.

I think you are obsessing excessively about a few degrees, of
temperature fluctuation.

Bon appetit,
George H.

Blech, boiled beef. You have to caramelize it to make it taste good.
Roasted at 425F in a convection oven or over charcoal is the One True Way.

Cheers

Phil "obligate carnivore" Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Jesse]

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
news:4DC80E50.1080406@electrooptical.net:

<snip>

Blech, boiled beef. You have to caramelize it to make it
taste good. Roasted at 425F in a convection oven or over
charcoal is the One True Way.

Cheers

Phil "obligate carnivore" Hobbs

I really don't want to debate the merits of this method, but
was only seeking information on how to economically implement
it.

Since Phil already replied, I'll make a single exception and
point out that food is not boiled, it's first packaged in a
water tight pouch (eg FoodSaver) and then gently poached.
Rather than searing before hand (to achieve the Maillard
reaction) it is usually seared afterward.

If you're interested in learning whether this cooking
technique is for you, this newsgroup probably isn't the best
forum for doing so. There's lots of information on the 'net
about it, by those who have studied it at length.

I'm not here to advocate anything one way or another. In fact,
I too was skeptical at first, dismissing sous vide as yet
another, soon to pass, fad. I decided to build this
experimental DIY rig to settle the issue one way or the other
and, to my surprise, am glad that I did.

Jesse

 

[George Herold]

On May 9, 10:16 am, Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote:

Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote innews:Xns9EDE83B3A34Bjesseatnospamdotcom@127.0.0.1:

I have a DIY cooking project with which I'd appreciate some
help.

snip

Many thanks to all who troubled to share their thoughts. I
thought I would be lucky to get even a single reply, but in
only a few days there have been fifteen from almost as many
individuals.

Rather than reply to each individual message, I'll try to
clarify matters with a single response. I hope everyone who
replied will see this contribution to the thread.

First, to respond to Ecnerwal

Zeroth question - other than you fussing about
it, is this really all that big of a deal? Few
cooking or culturing processes care all that
much about a lousy degree, F or C.

And Rich Grise

I wonder what he cooks at 130°F ą 0.3°F! =:-O

Over the past several years, within the general realm of
"molecular gastronomy" exists that of "sous vide" (French for
"under pressure") cookery.

Misleading nomenclature to the contrary, what this is really
all about is instead of cooking, for example, a beef roast at
350 degrees and removing it when it reaches the desired
internal temperature, it's wrapped and placed in a water bath
of the desired temperature (130 for example) to begin with.
It's then cooked not just for hours, but sometimes for days.

Okay, what's the point?

There are several advantages (google to acquaint yourself with
them) but among the most important is that, as in pit BBQ,
this "low and slow" cooking has a tenderizing effect, offering
the chance to turn the lead of cheap chuck into the gold of
rib eye and having it STILL come out medium rare.

Being a somewhat new approach to cooking, however, it simply
isn't known what effect temperature fluctuation has on the
process. The general consensus is that less is better. I knew
when I bought the thermostat that it only allowed a .3C
variance and was content with that.

Many have used a PID controller, as whit3rd noted, but I
thought that even though it allowed much greater temperature
stability, its complexity was beyond my capacity to properly
configure.

When I discovered that my STC-1000 thermostat exhibited a
small but significant overshoot, I thought it was probably
acceptable but I wondered if there was an easy way to reduce
it.

One obvious approach was to keep the heating element from
getting so hot. I now realize that a simple resistor simply
won't work, it would have to be massive to reduce the current
by the required amount.

I'd like to use a less massive heating element, as Sjouke
Burry pointed out, but finding something ready made that can
be immersed in water, isn't so easy. A home aquarium heater
can be hacked to remove its thermostat, but this isn't a
project I'm comfortable doing.

Rich Grise saw a good solution

Lamp dimmer?

It looks like $5 spent at Home Depot should do the trick.

Mikek had another insight...

Not sure I like the idea of pumping 72* F air bubbles
through a system I'm trying to keep at constant 130*F.

And John Fields...

Are you using the air pump as a bubbler or as a
recirculating pump?

To mix the water.

Originally, I tried placing the stockpot on a hot plate
(connected to the thermostat) without the bubbler, hoping that
natural convection would do the trick, but the overshoot was
pretty bad. Adding the bubbler helped, but using the immersion
heater and bubbler was the best solution so far.

Cooling the water by bubbling room temperature air through it,
I knew, wasn't such a good idea, but the only economical
alternative I could think of was something like a submersible
tabletop fountain pump, like a Sunterra. The question was
whether it would tolerate such hot water. I emailed the
company and inquired, but received no response.

Rather than delay any longer and worried about mixing
electrical current and water, I thought the air pump, despite
its disadvantages, was probably the better option.

Perhaps some who have followed this thread may have a thought
on this topic. Would one of these tiny submersible pumps
function at 130F temperature? For very long? Would it simply
fail and need to be replaced or result in some disaster?

Anyway, for less than $50 - compared to $1400 for a Fisher
laboratory circulator or even $400 for a retail Sous Vide
Supreme - I'm cooking sous vide.

And very happily too. Like pit BBQ, of which I am also a fan,
my few attempts so far have revealed that it can create
genuine culinary magic.

Thanks again to all for so generously sharing their knowledge.

Jesse

Very interesting Jesse,
Do you worry about some kind of bacteria growing at 130F? And how
long do you have to let the meat cook? I was the lunch cook at a
fairly nice restuarant for about a year. The first thing I did when I
came in the morning (~5:30 AM) was to start the prime rib for the
evening. Started at ~220F for a few hours and then dialed down to
170F IIRC.

I think you are obsessing excessively about a few degrees, of
temperature fluctuation.

Bon appetit,
George H.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

George Herold wrote:

On May 9, 11:54 am, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
George Herold wrote:
On May 9, 10:16 am, Jesse<je...@nospam.com> wrote:
Jesse<je...@nospam.com> wrote innews:Xns9EDE83B3A34Bjesseatnospamdotcom@127.0.0.1:

I have a DIY cooking project with which I'd appreciate some
help.

snip

Many thanks to all who troubled to share their thoughts. I
thought I would be lucky to get even a single reply, but in
only a few days there have been fifteen from almost as many
individuals.

Rather than reply to each individual message, I'll try to
clarify matters with a single response. I hope everyone who
replied will see this contribution to the thread.

First, to respond to Ecnerwal

Zeroth question - other than you fussing about
it, is this really all that big of a deal? Few
cooking or culturing processes care all that
much about a lousy degree, F or C.

And Rich Grise

I wonder what he cooks at 130°F ą 0.3°F! =:-O

Over the past several years, within the general realm of
"molecular gastronomy" exists that of "sous vide" (French for
"under pressure") cookery.

Misleading nomenclature to the contrary, what this is really
all about is instead of cooking, for example, a beef roast at
350 degrees and removing it when it reaches the desired
internal temperature, it's wrapped and placed in a water bath
of the desired temperature (130 for example) to begin with.
It's then cooked not just for hours, but sometimes for days.

Okay, what's the point?

There are several advantages (google to acquaint yourself with
them) but among the most important is that, as in pit BBQ,
this "low and slow" cooking has a tenderizing effect, offering
the chance to turn the lead of cheap chuck into the gold of
rib eye and having it STILL come out medium rare.

Being a somewhat new approach to cooking, however, it simply
isn't known what effect temperature fluctuation has on the
process. The general consensus is that less is better. I knew
when I bought the thermostat that it only allowed a .3C
variance and was content with that.

Many have used a PID controller, as whit3rd noted, but I
thought that even though it allowed much greater temperature
stability, its complexity was beyond my capacity to properly
configure.

When I discovered that my STC-1000 thermostat exhibited a
small but significant overshoot, I thought it was probably
acceptable but I wondered if there was an easy way to reduce
it.

One obvious approach was to keep the heating element from
getting so hot. I now realize that a simple resistor simply
won't work, it would have to be massive to reduce the current
by the required amount.

I'd like to use a less massive heating element, as Sjouke
Burry pointed out, but finding something ready made that can
be immersed in water, isn't so easy. A home aquarium heater
can be hacked to remove its thermostat, but this isn't a
project I'm comfortable doing.

Rich Grise saw a good solution

Lamp dimmer?

It looks like $5 spent at Home Depot should do the trick.

Mikek had another insight...

Not sure I like the idea of pumping 72* F air bubbles
through a system I'm trying to keep at constant 130*F.

And John Fields...

Are you using the air pump as a bubbler or as a
recirculating pump?

To mix the water.

Originally, I tried placing the stockpot on a hot plate
(connected to the thermostat) without the bubbler, hoping that
natural convection would do the trick, but the overshoot was
pretty bad. Adding the bubbler helped, but using the immersion
heater and bubbler was the best solution so far.

Cooling the water by bubbling room temperature air through it,
I knew, wasn't such a good idea, but the only economical
alternative I could think of was something like a submersible
tabletop fountain pump, like a Sunterra. The question was
whether it would tolerate such hot water. I emailed the
company and inquired, but received no response.

Rather than delay any longer and worried about mixing
electrical current and water, I thought the air pump, despite
its disadvantages, was probably the better option.

Perhaps some who have followed this thread may have a thought
on this topic. Would one of these tiny submersible pumps
function at 130F temperature? For very long? Would it simply
fail and need to be replaced or result in some disaster?

Anyway, for less than $50 - compared to $1400 for a Fisher
laboratory circulator or even $400 for a retail Sous Vide
Supreme - I'm cooking sous vide.

And very happily too. Like pit BBQ, of which I am also a fan,
my few attempts so far have revealed that it can create
genuine culinary magic.

Thanks again to all for so generously sharing their knowledge.

Jesse

Very interesting Jesse,
Do you worry about some kind of bacteria growing at 130F? And how
long do you have to let the meat cook? I was the lunch cook at a
fairly nice restuarant for about a year. The first thing I did when I
came in the morning (~5:30 AM) was to start the prime rib for the
evening. Started at ~220F for a few hours and then dialed down to
170F IIRC.

I think you are obsessing excessively about a few degrees, of
temperature fluctuation.

Bon appetit,
George H.

Blech, boiled beef. You have to caramelize it to make it taste good.
Roasted at 425F in a convection oven or over charcoal is the One True Way.

Cheers

Phil "obligate carnivore" Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) nethttp://electrooptical.net- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh come on now Phil, Certainly you like a nice pot roast. Slow
cooked all day with lots of taters, carrots and onions. Our 'secert'
family recipe calls for half a jar of horse radish spread on top to
the roast after it's browned. mmmm, all this food talk is making me
hungry.

George H.

Yum, you betcha, but _browned first_. Real boiled beef is repulsive.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[George Herold]

On May 9, 11:08 am, Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote:

George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote innews:bffd822e-640c-4644-a657-5e038199b028@a26g2000vbo.googlegr
oups.com:

On May 9, 10:16 am, Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote:
Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote
innews:Xns9EDE83B3A34Bjesseatnospamdotcom@
127.0.0.1:

I have a DIY cooking project with which I'd appreciate
some help.

snip

snip

Very interesting Jesse,
Do you worry about some kind of bacteria growing at 130F?
And how long do you have to let the meat cook?  I was the
lunch cook at a fairly nice restuarant for about a year.
The first thing I did when I came in the morning (~5:30 AM)
was to start the prime rib for the evening.  Started at
~220F for a few hours and then dialed down to 170F IIRC.

I think you are obsessing excessively about a few degrees,
of temperature fluctuation.

Bon appetit,
George H.

Thanks for the reply.

Bacterial growth is of great concern, but has been studied
extensively - google Doug Baldwin, for example, for more info.
From all available info, both theoretical and practical, the
130 mark is accepted as safe.

As for the concern over temperature fluctuation, you may well
be right. I wouldn't call my concern "obsessing" and I'm
content with what I already have, but if was easy to keep the
range a little smaller, and it seems that it is with a dimmer,
I'm willing to polish the setup to make it a little better.

Lastly, please realize that heat transfer in liquids is MUCH
greater than that in air, some 23 times as much, as I
understand.

Sure that just gets you up to the right temperature faster, once your
piece of meat is at whatever cooking temperature you desire it will
take the same time to 'cook'. (Hard for me to call 130 F cooking...
can you hold your finger in the 130 F water?)

Sorry for the obsessing comment.

George H.

Putting your hand in a 350 oven for ten seconds is no big
deal. Doing so in the same temperature oil is rather
different.

Jesse

 

[George Herold]

On May 9, 11:54 am, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

George Herold wrote:
On May 9, 10:16 am, Jesse<je...@nospam.com>  wrote:
Jesse<je...@nospam.com>  wrote innews:Xns9EDE83B3A34Bjesseatnospamdotcom@127.0.0.1:

I have a DIY cooking project with which I'd appreciate some
help.

snip

Many thanks to all who troubled to share their thoughts. I
thought I would be lucky to get even a single reply, but in
only a few days there have been fifteen from almost as many
individuals.

Rather than reply to each individual message, I'll try to
clarify matters with a single response. I hope everyone who
replied will see this contribution to the thread.

First, to respond to Ecnerwal

Zeroth question - other than you fussing about
it, is this really all that big of a deal? Few
cooking or culturing processes care all that
much about a lousy degree, F or C.

And Rich Grise

I wonder what he cooks at 130°F ą 0.3°F! =:-O

Over the past several years, within the general realm of
"molecular gastronomy" exists that of "sous vide" (French for
"under pressure") cookery.

Misleading nomenclature to the contrary, what this is really
all about is instead of cooking, for example, a beef roast at
350 degrees and removing it when it reaches the desired
internal temperature, it's wrapped and placed in a water bath
of the desired temperature (130 for example) to begin with.
It's then cooked not just for hours, but sometimes for days.

Okay, what's the point?

There are several advantages (google to acquaint yourself with
them) but among the most important is that, as in pit BBQ,
this "low and slow" cooking has a tenderizing effect, offering
the chance to turn the lead of cheap chuck into the gold of
rib eye and having it STILL come out medium rare.

Being a somewhat new approach to cooking, however, it simply
isn't known what effect temperature fluctuation has on the
process. The general consensus is that less is better. I knew
when I bought the thermostat that it only allowed a .3C
variance and was content with that.

Many have used a PID controller, as whit3rd noted, but I
thought that even though it allowed much greater temperature
stability, its complexity was beyond my capacity to properly
configure.

When I discovered that my STC-1000 thermostat exhibited a
small but significant overshoot, I thought it was probably
acceptable but I wondered if there was an easy way to reduce
it.

One obvious approach was to keep the heating element from
getting so hot. I now realize that a simple resistor simply
won't work, it would have to be massive to reduce the current
by the required amount.

I'd like to use a less massive heating element, as Sjouke
Burry pointed out, but finding something ready made that can
be immersed in water, isn't so easy. A home aquarium heater
can be hacked to remove its thermostat, but this isn't a
project I'm comfortable doing.

Rich Grise saw a good solution

Lamp dimmer?

It looks like $5 spent at Home Depot should do the trick.

Mikek had another insight...

Not sure I like the idea of pumping 72* F air bubbles
through a system I'm trying to keep at constant 130*F.

And John Fields...

Are you using the air pump as a bubbler or as a
recirculating pump?

To mix the water.

Originally, I tried placing the stockpot on a hot plate
(connected to the thermostat) without the bubbler, hoping that
natural convection would do the trick, but the overshoot was
pretty bad. Adding the bubbler helped, but using the immersion
heater and bubbler was the best solution so far.

Cooling the water by bubbling room temperature air through it,
I knew, wasn't such a good idea, but the only economical
alternative I could think of was something like a submersible
tabletop fountain pump, like a Sunterra. The question was
whether it would tolerate such hot water. I emailed the
company and inquired, but received no response.

Rather than delay any longer and worried about mixing
electrical current and water, I thought the air pump, despite
its disadvantages, was probably the better option.

Perhaps some who have followed this thread may have a thought
on this topic. Would one of these tiny submersible pumps
function at 130F temperature? For very long? Would it simply
fail and need to be replaced or result in some disaster?

Anyway, for less than $50 - compared to $1400 for a Fisher
laboratory circulator or even $400 for a retail Sous Vide
Supreme - I'm cooking sous vide.

And very happily too. Like pit BBQ, of which I am also a fan,
my few attempts so far have revealed that it can create
genuine culinary magic.

Thanks again to all for so generously sharing their knowledge.

Jesse

Very interesting Jesse,
Do you worry about some kind of bacteria growing at 130F?  And how
long do you have to let the meat cook?  I was the lunch cook at a
fairly nice restuarant for about a year.  The first thing I did when I
came in the morning (~5:30 AM) was to start the prime rib for the
evening.  Started at ~220F for a few hours and then dialed down to
170F IIRC.

I think you are obsessing excessively about a few degrees, of
temperature fluctuation.

Bon appetit,
George H.

Blech, boiled beef.  You have to caramelize it to make it taste good.
Roasted at 425F in a convection oven or over charcoal is the One True Way..

Cheers

Phil "obligate carnivore" Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) nethttp://electrooptical.net- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh come on now Phil, Certainly you like a nice pot roast. Slow
cooked all day with lots of taters, carrots and onions. Our 'secert'
family recipe calls for half a jar of horse radish spread on top to
the roast after it's browned. mmmm, all this food talk is making me
hungry.

George H.

 

[amdx]

Very interesting Jesse,
Do you worry about some kind of bacteria growing at 130F? And how
long do you have to let the meat cook? I was the lunch cook at a
fairly nice restuarant for about a year. The first thing I did when I
came in the morning (~5:30 AM) was to start the prime rib for the
evening. Started at ~220F for a few hours and then dialed down to
170F IIRC.

I think you are obsessing excessively about a few degrees, of
temperature fluctuation.

Bon appetit,
George H.

I'd like to add a new wrinkle, "meat glue" butchers have started gluing
small pieces of meat together to make full size pieces and it is
difficult to tell.
Besides possible problems with the chemical, any bacteria that was
on the outside is now on the inside. If you cook it rare you won't kill
the bacteria.
Jesse's method may kill the bacteria, but usually the recommended temp is
160*,
his long cooking time at 130* may kill bacteria.
Meat Glue video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXXrB3rz-xU
My short search finds no ban in the US.
Mikek

 

[Jesse]

"amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote in
news:5ecf6$4dc83be4$45013905$19952@KNOLOGY.NET:

<snip>

Jesse's method may kill the bacteria, but usually the
recommended temp is 160*...
Mikek

Thanks for the response, but please understand that I am no
expert on this subject and it is hardly "my" method. What I
know about it, I've learned from the 'net, which you can do at
least as well as I have.

Perhaps chief among my doubts about this approach was that of
safety. In that, as both you and George have pointed out (as
well as many before us) I was hardly alone.

Still, the 130 threshold seems to be the magic number, one of
the reasons why hitting it and holding it is so important. If
it rises too high, you loose the medium-rare target you're
trying to hit. Too low and you offer pathogens an increasingly
hospitable habitat.

Interestingly, this setpoint applies exclusively to beef. In
cooking pork or poultry, little concern over the result being
medium-rare is present, so these can and often are cooked at a
higher temperature.

What is actually of concern here, I think, is really just
pasteurization. If you've ever done any camping, or maybe just
watched Survivor, you probably know that rendering water
potable is not just a function of temperature, but of time as
well.

Thus eggs can be made safe by heating them until the yolks are
set (~160°F). But it's thought that they can also be cooked in
the shell at 135°F in a sous vide water bath for at least 1
hour and 15 minutes to achieve parallel safety.

For a general introduction to sous vide cookery, please see...
www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html
Of particular interest is the section on Safety (Part 1
Section 1).

For some background on the approach, please see Amanda
Hesser's piece, Under Pressure,
www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/magazine/14CRYOVAC.html?_r=1
&pagewanted=1&ei=5090&en=3d5db17005368139&ex=1281672000
&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

For lots more information on sous vide, please search
egullet.com.

I'm afraid this is the best I can do in explaining the method.
It was precisely because I wanted to avoid becoming the go to
guy to learn all about this lunatic cooking approach was the
reason why I left out the specific nature of my "DIY cooking
project". It was only because some were growing uncomfortable
with just what is was that I was, uh, "cooking" that I
reluctantly mentioned it all.

Again, there's tons of stuff on the 'net on all this. If
anyone in this group wants to know more, google is your best
guide.

Jesse

+

All truth passes through three stages... &c &c &c.
~ Arthur Schopenhauer

 

[amdx]

"Jesse" wrote in message
news:Xns9EE0A5C2DEBDFjesseatnospamdotcom@127.0.0.1...

"amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote in
news:5ecf6$4dc83be4$45013905$19952@KNOLOGY.NET:

<snip>

Jesse's method may kill the bacteria, but usually the
recommended temp is 160*...
Mikek

Thanks for the response, but please understand that I am no
expert on this subject and it is hardly "my" method. What I
know about it, I've learned from the 'net, which you can do at
least as well as I have.

Perhaps chief among my doubts about this approach was that of
safety. In that, as both you and George have pointed out (as
well as many before us) I was hardly alone.

Still, the 130 threshold seems to be the magic number, one of
the reasons why hitting it and holding it is so important. If
it rises too high, you loose the medium-rare target you're
trying to hit. Too low and you offer pathogens an increasingly
hospitable habitat.

Interestingly, this setpoint applies exclusively to beef. In
cooking pork or poultry, little concern over the result being
medium-rare is present, so these can and often are cooked at a
higher temperature.

What is actually of concern here, I think, is really just
pasteurization. If you've ever done any camping, or maybe just
watched Survivor, you probably know that rendering water
potable is not just a function of temperature, but of time as
well.

Thus eggs can be made safe by heating them until the yolks are
set (~160°F). But it's thought that they can also be cooked in
the shell at 135°F in a sous vide water bath for at least 1
hour and 15 minutes to achieve parallel safety.

For a general introduction to sous vide cookery, please see...
www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html
Of particular interest is the section on Safety (Part 1
Section 1).

For some background on the approach, please see Amanda
Hesser's piece, Under Pressure,
www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/magazine/14CRYOVAC.html?_r=1
&pagewanted=1&ei=5090&en=3d5db17005368139&ex=1281672000
&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

For lots more information on sous vide, please search
egullet.com.

I'm afraid this is the best I can do in explaining the method.
It was precisely because I wanted to avoid becoming the go to
guy to learn all about this lunatic cooking approach was the
reason why I left out the specific nature of my "DIY cooking
project". It was only because some were growing uncomfortable
with just what is was that I was, uh, "cooking" that I
reluctantly mentioned it all.

Again, there's tons of stuff on the 'net on all this. If
anyone in this group wants to know more, google is your best
guide.

Jesse,
But we all found it interesting, we wanted to hear about it.
I just added the "meat glue" info because it was new to me.
Mikek

 

[Rich Grise]

George Herold wrote:

Sure that just gets you up to the right temperature faster, once your
piece of meat is at whatever cooking temperature you desire it will
take the same time to 'cook'. (Hard for me to call 130 F cooking...
can you hold your finger in the 130 F water?)

Sorry for the obsessing comment.

How hot is the air that comes out of the car heater by your foot? I

once heard a UL about some guy who was driving and felt drowsy, so
he pulled over, but left the engine running, with the windows
open a bit so he wouldn't gas himself, and the heater going so he
wouldn't freeze.

Anyway, the UL was that the guy slept for several hours and when
he woke up, he found that his foot had been cooked. It sounds a
little implausible; I wonder if that UL debunker has anything on
that.

What's the URL of the UL debunker site?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

George Herold wrote:

On May 9, 11:54 am, Phil Hobbs

Blech, boiled beef.  You have to caramelize it to make it taste good.
Roasted at 425F in a convection oven or over charcoal is the One True
Way.

Oh come on now Phil, Certainly you like a nice pot roast. Slow
cooked all day with lots of taters, carrots and onions. Our 'secert'
family recipe calls for half a jar of horse radish spread on top to
the roast after it's browned. mmmm, all this food talk is making me
hungry.

All the cooking shows that slow-cook beef say to first brown it all

over in a searing-hot skillet first, _then_ slow-cook it, and also
use the liquid from the sear in the stew or pot-roast recipe.

BTW, it's nice to see such a long on-topic thread. ;-D

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

Jesse wrote:

I'm not here to advocate anything one way or another. In fact,
I too was skeptical at first, dismissing sous vide as yet
another, soon to pass, fad. I decided to build this
experimental DIY rig to settle the issue one way or the other
and, to my surprise, am glad that I did.

Ah! An experiment!

I, too, love Science. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

amdx wrote:

PS. Guess I could look up acetone and alcohol boiling points.
Hmm.... Acetone 133*F
Ok, what dissolves in acetone?

I once read somewhere that acetone and water are 100% miscible, but
I'd be pretty reluctant to taste it!

Cheers!
Rich

 

[George Herold]

On May 9, 4:17 pm, Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote:

"amdx" <a...@knology.net> wrote innews:5ecf6$4dc83be4$45013905$19952@KNOLOGY.NET:

snip

Jesse's method may kill the bacteria, but usually the
recommended temp is 160*...
                  Mikek

Thanks for the response, but please understand that I am no
expert on this subject and it is hardly "my" method. What I
know about it, I've learned from the 'net, which you can do at
least as well as I have.

Perhaps chief among my doubts about this approach was that of
safety. In that, as both you and George have pointed out (as
well as many before us) I was hardly alone.

Still, the 130 threshold seems to be the magic number, one of
the reasons why hitting it and holding it is so important. If
it rises too high, you loose the medium-rare target you're
trying to hit. Too low and you offer pathogens an increasingly
hospitable habitat.

Interestingly, this setpoint applies exclusively to beef. In
cooking pork or poultry, little concern over the result being
medium-rare is present, so these can and often are cooked at a
higher temperature.

What is actually of concern here, I think, is really just
pasteurization. If you've ever done any camping, or maybe just
watched Survivor, you probably know that rendering water
potable is not just a function of temperature, but of time as
well.

Thus eggs can be made safe by heating them until the yolks are
set (~160°F). But it's thought that they can also be cooked in
the shell at 135°F in a sous vide water bath for at least 1
hour and 15 minutes to achieve parallel safety.

For a general introduction to sous vide cookery, please see...
   www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html
Of particular interest is the section on Safety (Part 1
Section 1).

For some background on the approach, please see Amanda
Hesser's piece, Under Pressure,
   www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/magazine/14CRYOVAC.html?_r=1
&pagewanted=1&ei=5090&en=3d5db17005368139&ex=1281672000
&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

For lots more information on sous vide, please search
egullet.com.

I'm afraid this is the best I can do in explaining the method.
It was precisely because I wanted to avoid becoming the go to
guy to learn all about this lunatic cooking approach was the
reason why I left out the specific nature of my "DIY cooking
project". It was only because some were growing uncomfortable
with just what is was that I was, uh, "cooking" that I
reluctantly mentioned it all.

Again, there's tons of stuff on the 'net on all this. If
anyone in this group wants to know more, google is your best
guide.

Jesse

+

All truth passes through three stages... &c &c &c.
~ Arthur Schopenhauer

Hey don't worry about it. Life is dangerous, you could die at any
moment.
I love raw shellfish. Some day it might make me sick or worse.

There're people here that can tell you how to do milli-C temperature
control, sometimes that's important. I don't think the meat is going
to be much different if cooked at 130C or 131C. (There will be more
than a 1% variation in each slab of meat, don't ya think?)

Hmm, your fluctuations are +/-0.6 C, but what's your accuracy?

George H.

 

[George Herold]

On May 9, 7:35 pm, Rich Grise <ri...@example.net.invalid> wrote:

George Herold wrote:

Sure that just gets you up to the right temperature faster, once your
piece of meat is at whatever cooking temperature you desire it will
take the same time to 'cook'.  (Hard for me to call 130 F cooking...
can you hold your finger in the 130 F water?)

Sorry for the obsessing comment.

How hot is the air that comes out of the car heater by your foot? I
once heard a UL about some guy who was driving and felt drowsy, so
he pulled over, but left the engine running, with the windows
open a bit so he wouldn't gas himself, and the heater going so he
wouldn't freeze.

Anyway, the UL was that the guy slept for several hours and when
he woke up, he found that his foot had been cooked. It sounds a
little implausible; I wonder if that UL debunker has anything on
that.

What's the URL of the UL debunker site?

Thanks,
Rich

Yeah that doesn't sound right. You've at least got blood flowing in
and out that will take the heat away. (You can keep your finger
in,, ? 120F water?)

George H.

 

[George Herold]

On May 9, 7:42 pm, Rich Grise <ri...@example.net.invalid> wrote:

George Herold wrote:
On May 9, 11:54 am, Phil Hobbs

Blech, boiled beef.  You have to caramelize it to make it taste good..
Roasted at 425F in a convection oven or over charcoal is the One True
Way.

Oh come on now Phil,  Certainly you like a nice pot roast.  Slow
cooked all day with lots of taters, carrots and onions.  Our 'secert'
family recipe calls for half a jar of horse radish spread on top to
the roast after it's browned.  mmmm, all this food talk is making me
hungry.

All the cooking shows that slow-cook beef say to first brown it all
over in a searing-hot skillet first, _then_ slow-cook it, and also
use the liquid from the sear in the stew or pot-roast recipe.

BTW, it's nice to see such a long on-topic thread. ;-D

Cheers!
Rich

Yeah, the whole point of pot roast is to turn the dripping's into
gravy. You've got to know about rue, to make a good gravy.

Off topic??

George H.

 

On May 7, 9:56 am, Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote:

I have a DIY cooking project with which I'd appreciate some
help.

I'm trying to hold several gallons of water at 130F with
minimal variation. A digital thermostat regulates the
temperature (to within .3C), an aquarium air pump provides
circulation, and a small immersion heater (Norpro 559) heats
the water. The latter draws 300W on a standard 110VAC line.

So far so good.

The problem is that even though the heater powers on for less
than a minute (out of even ten), when it turns off, the
residual heat overshoots the mark, causing twice the range in
temperature (.6C) necessary with the thermostat.

So I'd like to prevent the heater from getting so hot,
reducing the wattage by approximately half.

I'm pretty sure that wiring in a resistor into the hot lead to
the element would do it, but I don't know the specifics.
Resistors are available in a huge array of OHM values and
watts and what is utterly bewildering to someone like me is
probably mindlessly simple to many of the experts who frequent
this group.

Any suggestions?

Jesse

It's a resistive element with e thermostat? put it on a lamp dimmer
and dial whatever power level you want. Go really crazy and put it in
a servo loop. THAT would be a learning experience.

G˛

 

[Rich Grise]

George Herold wrote:

On May 9, 7:42 pm, Rich Grise <ri...@example.net.invalid> wrote:
George Herold wrote:
On May 9, 11:54 am, Phil Hobbs

Blech, boiled beef.  You have to caramelize it to make it taste good.
Roasted at 425F in a convection oven or over charcoal is the One True
Way.

Oh come on now Phil,  Certainly you like a nice pot roast.  Slow
cooked all day with lots of taters, carrots and onions.  Our 'secert'
family recipe calls for half a jar of horse radish spread on top to
the roast after it's browned.  mmmm, all this food talk is making me
hungry.

All the cooking shows that slow-cook beef say to first brown it all
over in a searing-hot skillet first, _then_ slow-cook it, and also
use the liquid from the sear in the stew or pot-roast recipe.

BTW, it's nice to see such a long on-topic thread. ;-D

Yeah, the whole point of pot roast is to turn the dripping's into
gravy. You've got to know about rue, to make a good gravy.

Off topic??

Nah, I think we've got an unwritten agreement that if it's about food,

it's usually allowed - everybody likes good recipes.

And for that other thing,
http://www.google.com/search?q=roux

It's essentially flour mixed in with the drippings, and cooked like
gravy or sauce.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

George Herold wrote:

On May 9, 4:17 pm, Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote:
"amdx" <a...@knology.net> wrote

Again, there's tons of stuff on the 'net on all this. If
anyone in this group wants to know more, google is your best
guide.

Hey don't worry about it. Life is dangerous, you could die at any
moment.
I love raw shellfish. Some day it might make me sick or worse.

That's pretty much sushi. Ever tried any live? Can't get any

fresher than live! ;-)

Remember when Riker was on that Klingon ship in some officer-exchange
program? He looked at the goch, and said, "It's still moving!" and
some Klingon said, "goch is always best when served live." ;-)

There're people here that can tell you how to do milli-C temperature
control, sometimes that's important. I don't think the meat is going
to be much different if cooked at 130C or 131C. (There will be more
than a 1% variation in each slab of meat, don't ya think?)

Hmm, your fluctuations are +/-0.6 C, but what's your accuracy?

George H.

 

[freshmeals]

On May 9, 11:23 pm, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:

On May 7, 9:56 am, Jesse <je...@nospam.com> wrote:
 > I have a DIY cooking project with which I'd appreciate some
 > help.
 
 > I'm trying to hold several gallons of water at 130F with
 > minimal variation. A digital thermostat regulates the
 > temperature (to within .3C), an aquarium air pump provides
 > circulation, and a small immersion heater (Norpro 559) heats
 > the water. The latter draws 300W on a standard 110VAC line.
 
 > So far so good.
 
 > The problem is that even though the heater powers on for less
 > than a minute (out of even ten), when it turns off, the
 > residual heat overshoots the mark, causing twice the range in
 > temperature (.6C) necessary with the thermostat.
 
 > So I'd like to prevent the heater from getting so hot,
 > reducing the wattage by approximately half.
 
 > I'm pretty sure that wiring in a resistor into the hot lead to
 > the element would do it, but I don't know the specifics.
 > Resistors are available in a huge array of OHM values and
 > watts and what is utterly bewildering to someone like me is
 > probably mindlessly simple to many of the experts who frequent
 > this group.
 
 > Any suggestions?
 
 > Jesse

It's a resistive element with e thermostat? put it on a lamp dimmer
and dial whatever power level you want. Go really crazy and put it in
a servo loop. THAT would be a learning experience.

G˛

If you want to turn a cooker into a constant temperature bath just get
a SousVideMagic controller. It has been in use by thousands of users
over the world for over 3 years. It is the same controller is being
featured in Modernist Cuisine.