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Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot more. ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot more. ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:17:16 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot more.
ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
According to the article, Russian scientists contribute to some radiation technologies.
Having technologies is not the same as production. Even if they
can build the perfect machines, without costly clean rooms, they mght yeild
a few chips for $8.5m. Far cheap to smuggle a few chips and call it home-grown.
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
7111b360-f332-4548...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:17:16 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot more.
ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
According to the article, Russian scientists contribute to some radiation technologies.
Having technologies is not the same as production. Even if they
can build the perfect machines, without costly clean rooms, they mght yeild
a few chips for $8.5m. Far cheap to smuggle a few chips and call it home-grown.
Oh, and there is the relation US with China.
China has the ability to make things in a short time on a large scale.
After the anti Huawei plot by the US China will love to make their
own chips on a big scale.
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
7111b360-f332-4548...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:17:16 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot more.
ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
According to the article, Russian scientists contribute to some radiation technologies.
Having technologies is not the same as production. Even if they
can build the perfect machines, without costly clean rooms, they might yield
a few chips for $8.5m.
Far cheap to smuggle a few chips and call it home-grown.
Oh, and there is the relation US with China.
China has the ability to make things in a short time on a large scale.
After the anti-Huawei plot by the US China will love to make their own chips on a big scale.
Not sure there will be any \'tronics working after the WW3 nuke exchanges
but old tube radios may survive if the glass does not break.
When archaeologists dig up those cellphones they wonder
\'how did they ever make those small chips in the 20th century?\'
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 6:21:46 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
7111b360-f332-4548...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:17:16 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot
more.
ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
According to the article, Russian scientists contribute to some radiation
technologies.
Having technologies is not the same as production. Even if they
can build the perfect machines, without costly clean rooms, they mght yeild
a few chips for $8.5m. Far cheap to smuggle a few chips and call it home-grown.
Oh, and there is the relation US with China.
China has the ability to make things in a short time on a large scale.
After the anti Huawei plot by the US China will love to make their
own chips on a big scale.
Yes, after hiring group of TSMC engineers (don\'t think many of them left).
SMIC manages to make some 65nm chips, good enough for cheap auto, but not for
advanced Su-4x (or whatever number Russian have).
By the way, Russia can
also make 65nm chip, likely imported technologies from China.
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:17:16 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot more. ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
According to the article, Russian scientists contribute to some radiation technologies. Having technologies is not the same as production. Even if they can build the perfect machines, without costly clean rooms, they mght yeild a few chips for $8.5m. Far cheap to smuggle a few chips and call it home-grown.
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 06:43:43 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote in
183796e4-4352-4abc-b3e1-85a0f73f52f9n@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 6:21:46 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
7111b360-f332-4548...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:17:16 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot
more.
ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
According to the article, Russian scientists contribute to some radiation
technologies.
Having technologies is not the same as production. Even if they
can build the perfect machines, without costly clean rooms, they mght yeild
a few chips for $8.5m. Far cheap to smuggle a few chips and call it home-grown.
Oh, and there is the relation US with China.
China has the ability to make things in a short time on a large scale.
After the anti Huawei plot by the US China will love to make their
own chips on a big scale.
Yes, after hiring group of TSMC engineers (don\'t think many of them left).
SMIC manages to make some 65nm chips, good enough for cheap auto, but not for
advanced Su-4x (or whatever number Russian have).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-34
2 engines, poor F35
By the way, Russia can
also make 65nm chip, likely imported technologies from China.
Do not underestimate Russia
Seen it way ahead in some things at times.
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373-bcab-0e347e7056a7n@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot more. ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
And some Xray stuff cannot be that hard, cost is mostly profit..
With ever more sanctions US is forcing other countries to make their own stuff, share their innovations.
Take for example ARM, Russia could under these circumstances just say \'we no longer recognize your patents\' HINT!!
and build their own chips based on the ARM architecture.
In the same way as the US robs Russia these days of about everything they can.
Big US, very small place compared to the rest on my globe.
On Fri, 08 Apr 2022 14:35:47 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 06:43:43 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote in
183796e4-4352-4abc-b3e1-85a0f73f52f9n@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 6:21:46 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
7111b360-f332-4548...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 5:17:16 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373...@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot
more.
ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
According to the article, Russian scientists contribute to some radiation
technologies.
Having technologies is not the same as production. Even if they
can build the perfect machines, without costly clean rooms, they mght yeild
a few chips for $8.5m. Far cheap to smuggle a few chips and call it home-grown.
Oh, and there is the relation US with China.
China has the ability to make things in a short time on a large scale.
After the anti Huawei plot by the US China will love to make their
own chips on a big scale.
Yes, after hiring group of TSMC engineers (don\'t think many of them left).
SMIC manages to make some 65nm chips, good enough for cheap auto, but not for
advanced Su-4x (or whatever number Russian have).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-34
2 engines, poor F35
Manned jet fighters with two engines and armored cockpits are
expensive relics of the glorious dogfighting divebombing past. A cheap
smart missile or a pilotless plane will take one out. They are
antiques, like battleships and tanks.
The russians are losing planes and helicopters to shoulder-fired
weapons because they fly low to drop dumb bombs visually. They are
trying to fight WWII again.
By the way, Russia can
also make 65nm chip, likely imported technologies from China.
Do not underestimate Russia
Seen it way ahead in some things at times.
Barbarism, mostly. With a great amount of luck, the Ukraine fiasco
will shake things up and pull russia into the modern civilized world;
sadly unlikely.
Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 8 Apr 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ed Lee
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote in
5e7e0c8b-f242-4373-bcab-0e347e7056a7n@googlegroups.com>:
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:15:08 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russia Invests in Home Grown X-Ray Lithography Tech
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-invests-in-home-grown-x-ray-lithography-tech
$8.5m? Some more oligarch lunch money? China couldn\'t do it for a lot more. ASML machines/clean rooms are in billions.
They seemed to have worked with ASML in the past.
Good chance they have all the drawings etc.
And some Xray stuff cannot be that hard, cost is mostly profit..
With ever more sanctions US is forcing other countries to make their own stuff, share their innovations.
Take for example ARM, Russia could under these circumstances just say \'we no longer recognize your patents\' HINT!!
and build their own chips based on the ARM architecture.
In the same way as the US robs Russia these days of about everything they can.
Big US, very small place compared to the rest on my globe.
The issues in XUV are (1) photoresist, and (2) brightness, i.e. wafers
per hour. The issues in sub-32-nm litho are many--besides being
incredibly expensive and precise beasts, wafer scanners have a zillion
simultaneous measurements and adjustments of image quality running
continuously.
Nobody is going to be making the equivalent of a late-model ASML or
Nikon scanner from a standing start in a year or two.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
What stuns me is that the various parts of a modern wafer scanner
(formerly called a stepper) like mask, lens, and wafer, are in
continuous motion during exposure. To sub-nm precision.
And euv is not even coherent light, just an emission line from blasted
tin droplets.
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
[...]
What stuns me is that the various parts of a modern wafer scanner
(formerly called a stepper) like mask, lens, and wafer, are in
continuous motion during exposure. To sub-nm precision.
And euv is not even coherent light, just an emission line from blasted
tin droplets.
Thanks. I often wondered how they could start and stop a massive moving
weight, then wait for the vibrations to cease, expose and start moving again.
Repeat every 5nm. That is not going to work.
The solution is don\'t stop. Why didn\'t I think of that.
Now you need femtosecond accuracy in the clocks. That brings it to Time-Nuts
domain:
https://febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts_lists.febo.com/
On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:31:53 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com
wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
[...]
What stuns me is that the various parts of a modern wafer scanner
(formerly called a stepper) like mask, lens, and wafer, are in
continuous motion during exposure. To sub-nm precision.
And euv is not even coherent light, just an emission line from blasted
tin droplets.
Thanks. I often wondered how they could start and stop a massive moving
weight, then wait for the vibrations to cease, expose and start moving
again. Repeat every 5nm. That is not going to work.
The solution is don\'t stop. Why didn\'t I think of that.
Now you need femtosecond accuracy in the clocks. That brings it to
Time-Nuts domain:
https://febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts_lists.febo.com/
The lens of an EUV system looks like a diesel engine. Nothing refracts
13 nm light so the lens is a mess of shaped grazing-incidence metal
things with movers and benders. I think Zeiss makes it.
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:31:53 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com
wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
[...]
What stuns me is that the various parts of a modern wafer scanner
(formerly called a stepper) like mask, lens, and wafer, are in
continuous motion during exposure. To sub-nm precision.
And euv is not even coherent light, just an emission line from blasted
tin droplets.
Thanks. I often wondered how they could start and stop a massive moving
weight, then wait for the vibrations to cease, expose and start moving
again. Repeat every 5nm. That is not going to work.
The solution is don\'t stop. Why didn\'t I think of that.
Now you need femtosecond accuracy in the clocks. That brings it to
Time-Nuts domain:
https://febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts_lists.febo.com/
The lens of an EUV system looks like a diesel engine. Nothing refracts
13 nm light so the lens is a mess of shaped grazing-incidence metal
things with movers and benders. I think Zeiss makes it.
Apparently the beam is focused and directed by mirrors
How Carl Zeiss Crafts Optics for a $150 Million EUV Machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V__HbVlnICc
The next level is 1nm. I wonder if they use the same method.
1nm chip manufacturing factory! TSMC has once again set a world first!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBqTefFHCio
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
[...]
What stuns me is that the various parts of a modern wafer scanner
(formerly called a stepper) like mask, lens, and wafer, are in
continuous motion during exposure. To sub-nm precision.
And euv is not even coherent light, just an emission line from blasted
tin droplets.
Thanks. I often wondered how they could start and stop a massive moving
weight, then wait for the vibrations to cease, expose and start moving again.
Repeat every 5nm. That is not going to work.
The solution is don\'t stop. Why didn\'t I think of that.
Now you need femtosecond accuracy in the clocks. That brings it to Time-Nuts domain:
https://febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts_lists.febo.com/
On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 4:15:55 PM UTC-7, Mike Monett wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:31:53 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com
wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
[...]
What stuns me is that the various parts of a modern wafer scanner
(formerly called a stepper) like mask, lens, and wafer, are in
continuous motion during exposure. To sub-nm precision.
And euv is not even coherent light, just an emission line from blasted
tin droplets.
Thanks. I often wondered how they could start and stop a massive moving
weight, then wait for the vibrations to cease, expose and start moving
again. Repeat every 5nm. That is not going to work.
The solution is don\'t stop. Why didn\'t I think of that.
Now you need femtosecond accuracy in the clocks. That brings it to
Time-Nuts domain:
https://febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts_lists.febo.com/
The lens of an EUV system looks like a diesel engine. Nothing refracts
13 nm light so the lens is a mess of shaped grazing-incidence metal
things with movers and benders. I think Zeiss makes it.
Apparently the beam is focused and directed by mirrors
How Carl Zeiss Crafts Optics for a $150 Million EUV Machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V__HbVlnICc
The next level is 1nm. I wonder if they use the same method.
1nm chip manufacturing factory! TSMC has once again set a world first!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBqTefFHCio
Someone commented:
\"This is a totally fabricated story. TSMC has never announced anything about the 1 nm node.\"
I agree. 3nm is more likely.