Rewiring an antique Torchiere lamp....

[David Farber]

I\'m rewiring an antique Torchiere lamp. It is very similar (if not
identical) to what is shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xifZwLZESe4

My question is: Should I replace the old cloth wiring with the same type
of wiring? I like the idea that the original cable provided another
layer of protection for the separately insulated wires. Here is a photo
of the old wire:

https://app.box.com/s/60uk1b7uy1cnq6noz223mx7zjzq84770

The wire itself contains 10 strands and I estimate it to be 20 AWG. The
cable also has to be thin enough to easily fish through the opening of
the satellite candelabra lamp tubing. The diameter of the old cable is
2.5mm and the diameter of the tubing is about 10mm.

Thanks for your replies.

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[Peter W.]

A few things:

a) That ancient wire used either silk or mercerized cotton for the cloth covering - no sort of insulation or fire-proofing but strictly for appearance.
b) Given that you have a splice-box at the knuckle where the switch branches to the three arms, you might use modern cloth-covered wire (not cheap) to there, and standard 105C zip from the switch to the sockets.
c) Do make sure that the cord you use is \"Listed\" if only for insurance purposes.
d) I use a length of ball-chain for fishing in old multi-head lamps and chandeliers. It makes the bends easily and will slide of its own weight for insertion.

There is no need for more elaborate means.

Best of luck with it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

On 16/06/2021 4:34 pm, David Farber wrote:

I\'m rewiring an antique Torchiere lamp. It is very similar (if not
identical) to what is shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xifZwLZESe4

My question is: Should I replace the old cloth wiring with the same type
of wiring? I like the idea that the original cable provided another
layer of protection for the separately insulated wires. Here is a photo
of the old wire:

https://app.box.com/s/60uk1b7uy1cnq6noz223mx7zjzq84770

The wire itself contains 10 strands and I estimate it to be 20 AWG. The
cable also has to be thin enough to easily fish through the opening of
the satellite candelabra lamp tubing. The diameter of the old cable is
2.5mm and the diameter of the tubing is about 10mm.

Thanks for your replies.

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

Meh, the wiring is unseen just use some modern silicon wire rated for
the application.

 

[David Farber]

On 6/16/2021 3:54 AM, Peter W. wrote:

A few things:

a) That ancient wire used either silk or mercerized cotton for the cloth covering - no sort of insulation or fire-proofing but strictly for appearance.
b) Given that you have a splice-box at the knuckle where the switch branches to the three arms, you might use modern cloth-covered wire (not cheap) to there, and standard 105C zip from the switch to the sockets.
c) Do make sure that the cord you use is \"Listed\" if only for insurance purposes.
d) I use a length of ball-chain for fishing in old multi-head lamps and chandeliers. It makes the bends easily and will slide of its own weight for insertion.

There is no need for more elaborate means.

Best of luck with it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Hi Peter,

Just so I understand what you\'re trying to tell me, I see the wiring as
described in 4 parts:

Part 1

The main power cord that plugs into the wall and feeds up to the top of
the lamp. Would that be standard 18/2 lamp cord?

Part 2

From there, you have all the hot wires tied together which feed:

The Mogul light socket on top

The rotary 3-way switch which operates the three candelabra bulbs.
By the way, the rotary 3-way switch has its own built-in wiring.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004YULQ

I forgot to mention an add-on bulb (NOT added on by me) which is taped
to the base of the lamp. Picture is here,
https://app.box.com/s/l13ofutlb4phlu3o9fag1jd4nqao7820
Accompanying that add-on bulb is a SPST rotary switch which was placed
next to the 3-way candelabra switch at the top of the lamp.

Am I correct in saying that all these branched hot wires will be the
same kind of wiring? Will that particular wire be the modern cloth
wiring or some other type?

Part 3

Next are the two output wires of the 3-way rotary switch that tie
together with the candelabra socket wiring.

The wire from the rotary SPST switch which feeds the bulb at the base of
the lamp.

Part 4

All the neutral wires.

Thanks for helping me sort all this out.

One last mention, the center light pole which normally would have one
cord going through it will need an extra cord to supply power back to
the add-on lamp. The original extra wire running through the pole (which
is the same type of wiring that was feeding the candelabra sockets) is
the same cord I photographed earlier. I have my doubts whether or not
that is UL approved wire.
https://app.box.com/s/60uk1b7uy1cnq6noz223mx7zjzq84770

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[David Farber]

On 6/16/2021 3:54 AM, Peter W. wrote:

A few things:

a) That ancient wire used either silk or mercerized cotton for the cloth covering - no sort of insulation or fire-proofing but strictly for appearance.
b) Given that you have a splice-box at the knuckle where the switch branches to the three arms, you might use modern cloth-covered wire (not cheap) to there, and standard 105C zip from the switch to the sockets.
c) Do make sure that the cord you use is \"Listed\" if only for insurance purposes.
d) I use a length of ball-chain for fishing in old multi-head lamps and chandeliers. It makes the bends easily and will slide of its own weight for insertion.

There is no need for more elaborate means.

Best of luck with it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Hi Peter,

Just so I understand what you\'re trying to tell me, I see the wiring as
described in 4 parts:

Part 1

The main power cord that plugs into the wall and feeds up to the top of
the lamp. Would that be standard 18/2 lamp cord?

Part 2

From there, you have all the hot wires tied together which feed:

The Mogul light socket on top

The rotary 3-way switch which operates the three candelabra bulbs.
By the way, the rotary 3-way switch has its own built-in wiring.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004YULQ

I forgot to mention an add-on bulb (NOT added on by me) which is taped
to the base of the lamp. Picture is here,
https://app.box.com/s/l13ofutlb4phlu3o9fag1jd4nqao7820
Accompanying that add-on bulb is a SPST rotary switch which was placed
next to the 3-way candelabra switch at the top of the lamp.

Am I correct in saying that all these branched hot wires will be the
same kind of wiring? Will that particular wire be the modern cloth
wiring or some other type?

Part 3

Next are the two output wires of the 3-way rotary switch that tie
together with the candelabra socket wiring.

The wire from the rotary SPST switch which feeds the bulb at the base of
the lamp.

Part 4

All the neutral wires.

Thanks for helping me sort all this out.

One last mention, the center light pole which normally would have one
cord going through it will need an extra cord to supply power back to
the add-on lamp. The original extra wire running through the pole (which
is the same type of wiring that was feeding the candelabra sockets) is
the same cord I photographed earlier. I have my doubts whether or not
that is UL approved wire.
https://app.box.com/s/60uk1b7uy1cnq6noz223mx7zjzq84770

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[David Farber]

On 6/16/2021 6:40 AM, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

On 16/06/2021 4:34 pm, David Farber wrote:
I\'m rewiring an antique Torchiere lamp. It is very similar (if not
identical) to what is shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xifZwLZESe4

My question is: Should I replace the old cloth wiring with the same
type of wiring? I like the idea that the original cable provided
another layer of protection for the separately insulated wires. Here
is a photo of the old wire:

https://app.box.com/s/60uk1b7uy1cnq6noz223mx7zjzq84770

The wire itself contains 10 strands and I estimate it to be 20 AWG.
The cable also has to be thin enough to easily fish through the
opening of the satellite candelabra lamp tubing. The diameter of the
old cable is 2.5mm and the diameter of the tubing is about 10mm.

Thanks for your replies.

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

Meh, the wiring is unseen just use some modern silicon wire rated for
the application.
Thank you for your input.

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[Peter W.]

OK - a bit more complicated, then.

First piece of advice would be to lose the extra socket and lamp at the bottom of the fixture. However, if you must use it (and there is no really safe way to do so), I suggest that you get some epoxy putty and fill in the gnawed area at the base (duplicate the grooves if you wish), smooth out the socket (looks like cardboard?) and then use brass paint or some such to make it look \'of a piece\'. Either way, you can fill in the gnawed area and duplicate the grooves even if you lose the socket.

Then you need to separate your wiring efforts into two categories: That which is pretty - from the wall socket to the lamp base, and that which is utilitarian. The pretty wire should be the cloth-covered wire of you choice such as (From Amazon): https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81UjoxggqPL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

The other wire (also listed, and from Amazon): https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CqHJCmX4L._AC_SL1500_.jpg could be this stuff, good for 600V. and which will allow will allow you to color-code if you wish.. Going back down to the lower socket (again, not recommended), you could twist a pair from this same kit.

When I do this kind of work (we are on our third pre-1900 house), I use ball-chain for fishing, and I tend to use heat-shrink tubing over the wire-nuts to make sure there is no change of them coming loose. I will also tin the leads that connect to the various sockets so that there are no stray strands.

Best of luck with it!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[David Farber]

On 6/16/2021 9:51 AM, Peter W. wrote:

OK - a bit more complicated, then.

First piece of advice would be to lose the extra socket and lamp at the bottom of the fixture. However, if you must use it (and there is no really safe way to do so), I suggest that you get some epoxy putty and fill in the gnawed area at the base (duplicate the grooves if you wish), smooth out the socket (looks like cardboard?) and then use brass paint or some such to make it look \'of a piece\'. Either way, you can fill in the gnawed area and duplicate the grooves even if you lose the socket.

Then you need to separate your wiring efforts into two categories: That which is pretty - from the wall socket to the lamp base, and that which is utilitarian. The pretty wire should be the cloth-covered wire of you choice such as (From Amazon): https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81UjoxggqPL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

The other wire (also listed, and from Amazon): https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CqHJCmX4L._AC_SL1500_.jpg could be this stuff, good for 600V. and which will allow will allow you to color-code if you wish. Going back down to the lower socket (again, not recommended), you could twist a pair from this same kit.

When I do this kind of work (we are on our third pre-1900 house), I use ball-chain for fishing, and I tend to use heat-shrink tubing over the wire-nuts to make sure there is no change of them coming loose. I will also tin the leads that connect to the various sockets so that there are no stray strands.

Best of luck with it!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Hi Peter,

I would definitely like to lose that socket at the bottom of the fixture
but when I asked the owner about that possibility, I was told that was
the specific reason the lamp was purchased. I\'m going to play it safe
here and tell him that no matter how pretty it looks, it\'s not safe. Period.

Regarding this Amazon link:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CqHJCmX4L._AC_SL1500_.jpg

I see the image but I cannot find the webpage that links to that product.

Thanks for your reply.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[Peter W.]

https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-different-Insulated-Temperature-Resistance/dp/B07G2GLKMP/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=UL+listed+hook-up+wire&qid=1623865445&sr=8-18

FYI

 

[David Farber]

On 6/16/2021 10:45 AM, Peter W. wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-different-Insulated-Temperature-Resistance/dp/B07G2GLKMP/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=UL+listed+hook-up+wire&qid=1623865445&sr=8-18

FYI

Very nice. Thank you!

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[David Farber]

On 6/16/2021 10:45 AM, Peter W. wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-different-Insulated-Temperature-Resistance/dp/B07G2GLKMP/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=UL+listed+hook-up+wire&qid=1623865445&sr=8-18

FYI

Very nice. Thank you!

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[Michael Trew]

On 6/16/2021 4:34 AM, David Farber wrote:

I\'m rewiring an antique Torchiere lamp. It is very similar (if not
identical) to what is shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xifZwLZESe4

My question is: Should I replace the old cloth wiring with the same type
of wiring? I like the idea that the original cable provided another
layer of protection for the separately insulated wires. Here is a photo
of the old wire:

https://app.box.com/s/60uk1b7uy1cnq6noz223mx7zjzq84770

The wire itself contains 10 strands and I estimate it to be 20 AWG. The
cable also has to be thin enough to easily fish through the opening of
the satellite candelabra lamp tubing. The diameter of the old cable is
2.5mm and the diameter of the tubing is about 10mm.

Thanks for your replies.

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

Very nice! I have almost the same one in use in my front room daily.
It\'s on a switched outlet. It uses the larger mogul base bulb in the
center, I eventually put an adapter in to use a standard medium base
bulb. I\'ll be sure to follow this, because the original wire cored is
cracked up and rotten... I honestly shouldn\'t still have it plugged in
as is.

 

[Michael Trew]

On 6/16/2021 4:34 AM, David Farber wrote:

I\'m rewiring an antique Torchiere lamp. It is very similar (if not
identical) to what is shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xifZwLZESe4

My question is: Should I replace the old cloth wiring with the same type
of wiring? I like the idea that the original cable provided another
layer of protection for the separately insulated wires. Here is a photo
of the old wire:

https://app.box.com/s/60uk1b7uy1cnq6noz223mx7zjzq84770

The wire itself contains 10 strands and I estimate it to be 20 AWG. The
cable also has to be thin enough to easily fish through the opening of
the satellite candelabra lamp tubing. The diameter of the old cable is
2.5mm and the diameter of the tubing is about 10mm.

Thanks for your replies.

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

Very nice! I have almost the same one in use in my front room daily.
It\'s on a switched outlet. It uses the larger mogul base bulb in the
center, I eventually put an adapter in to use a standard medium base
bulb. I\'ll be sure to follow this, because the original wire cored is
cracked up and rotten... I honestly shouldn\'t still have it plugged in
as is.

 

[Arie de Muynck]

On 2021-06-16 18:51, Peter W. wrote:
> When I do this kind of work (we are on our third pre-1900 house), I use ball-chain for fishing, and I tend to use heat-shrink tubing over the wire-nuts to make sure there is no change of them coming loose. I will also tin the leads that connect to the various sockets so that there are no stray strands.

Do NOT tin the leads. The tin will flow under pressure, making the
contact unreliable. A perfect starter for sparking and fire...

Arie

 

[Arie de Muynck]

On 2021-06-16 18:51, Peter W. wrote:
> When I do this kind of work (we are on our third pre-1900 house), I use ball-chain for fishing, and I tend to use heat-shrink tubing over the wire-nuts to make sure there is no change of them coming loose. I will also tin the leads that connect to the various sockets so that there are no stray strands.

Do NOT tin the leads. The tin will flow under pressure, making the
contact unreliable. A perfect starter for sparking and fire...

Arie

 

[Ron D.]

I have a couple of 1950\'s lamps in use. They only have the center mogal-based bulb and they are still availabe at the hardware store down the street. It has the modern zip cord, but a non-polarized plug.

Generally, the stuff used is 18 AWG appliance wire. Teflon insulated insn;t generally used, but probably could be.

My \"Plans\" are to convert this lamp to a dimmable 6000 lumen mogal base LED lamp and be able to convert back by changing the external \"pigtail\" that will use a CPC connector.

This currently gets way too much use as it illuminates a hospital bed.

Currently, there is a 300W Credenza dimmer with a \"LOCATOR\" LED on it. That LED follows the lamp intensity inversely.

I have obtained the bulb, a mogal base extender, the dimming module (sold with the bulb) and a bunch of other stuff.

The credensa dimmer consists of a triac dimmer circuit, a LED, a slide pot and a switch. It will be canibalized such that the potentiometer exits with one wire through the switch. The other 3 leads will go to 3 pin bi-color LED. The potentiometer will got to a PR Electronics module where I will use the alarm setpoints to turn on power to the dimmer. I need to get the right signals out. the 0-10V output has very little current output.
and I have to dim the LED reverse acting

The initial design will use one color. With an add-on option the PR module can be controlled with RS-485, thus the potential use of the other color and the \"potential\" for home automation. Maybe, something like use another color when the lamp is controlled by the home automation system and just moving the slider changes it back to \"manual\".

I think it would be \"neat\" if the lamp responded to touch. e..g. if an unsuspecting sole reached for the switch near the lamp, the lamp would turn on.. Maybe three levels of on. This is wishful thinking.

 

[Ron D.]

I have a couple of 1950\'s lamps in use. They only have the center mogal-based bulb and they are still availabe at the hardware store down the street. It has the modern zip cord, but a non-polarized plug.

Generally, the stuff used is 18 AWG appliance wire. Teflon insulated insn;t generally used, but probably could be.

My \"Plans\" are to convert this lamp to a dimmable 6000 lumen mogal base LED lamp and be able to convert back by changing the external \"pigtail\" that will use a CPC connector.

This currently gets way too much use as it illuminates a hospital bed.

Currently, there is a 300W Credenza dimmer with a \"LOCATOR\" LED on it. That LED follows the lamp intensity inversely.

I have obtained the bulb, a mogal base extender, the dimming module (sold with the bulb) and a bunch of other stuff.

The credensa dimmer consists of a triac dimmer circuit, a LED, a slide pot and a switch. It will be canibalized such that the potentiometer exits with one wire through the switch. The other 3 leads will go to 3 pin bi-color LED. The potentiometer will got to a PR Electronics module where I will use the alarm setpoints to turn on power to the dimmer. I need to get the right signals out. the 0-10V output has very little current output.
and I have to dim the LED reverse acting

The initial design will use one color. With an add-on option the PR module can be controlled with RS-485, thus the potential use of the other color and the \"potential\" for home automation. Maybe, something like use another color when the lamp is controlled by the home automation system and just moving the slider changes it back to \"manual\".

I think it would be \"neat\" if the lamp responded to touch. e..g. if an unsuspecting sole reached for the switch near the lamp, the lamp would turn on.. Maybe three levels of on. This is wishful thinking.

 

[Andy Burns]

David Farber wrote:

Regarding this Amazon link:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CqHJCmX4L._AC_SL1500_.jpg

I see the image but I cannot find the webpage that links to that product.

e.g.

<https://amazon.co.uk/TUOFENG/dp/B07G72FZCR>

 

[Andy Burns]

David Farber wrote:

Regarding this Amazon link:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71CqHJCmX4L._AC_SL1500_.jpg

I see the image but I cannot find the webpage that links to that product.

e.g.

<https://amazon.co.uk/TUOFENG/dp/B07G72FZCR>

 

[Peter W.]

> Do NOT tin the leads. The tin will flow under pressure, making the

If one uses the correct solder (37/63), that does not happen. Further, those clamps should be TIGHT!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA