reliability of Pioneer plasma sets

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:22:37 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

The colour of the light is sick and rancid. I have another in an outside
light. During the winter, that is just about giving its full quota of light,
by the time it's dawn, and time for it to go off again.

I had similar opinions about CFL bulbs for quite a while. They just
looked reddish with a color temp of about 2500K. One of my former
customers is a lighting store. While working on their machines, I
asked if they had any CFL bulbs with a higher color temperature
approaching daylight at about 5500K. Nope, but some of the "natural
light" bulbs were rated at 3500K, which was worth a try. They looked
somewhat better and as an added bonus, didn't blow up after a few
weeks of operation. A few months later, the "daylight" series of
bulbs arrived at 5000K and up, which were a major improvement.

Most of the discount store CFL bulbs are unrated by color temperature.
Little wonder as I suspect they use whatever bulbs they can buy from
an assortment of vendors. No specs means no consistency.

Some of the bulbs I've used have a fairly long turn on time. This
bugs me but not enough to be concerned. I've learned to live with the
delay.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:13:10 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Patience. The patent attorneys must all be fed first. This article
covers the technology and legal wrangling (near the bottom):
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/525928.html

That's interesting. I see that the original question was posted back in
2005, and it looked as though a resolution to the legal problems was
expected in fairly short order, back then.

Thanks, I didn't notice. The problem usually has nothing to do with
the newer technology. It's that the companies involved have not had
sufficient time or sales to cover their expenses for the existing
technology. It's not until the old technology has run its course,
that the new technology can be safely allowed to appear. No company
wants to compete with itself.

In this case, the big panel LCD technology is still fairly new. Sales
of big LCD panels have certainly not hit bottom. I don't have a
figure as to how many years LCD technology needs to be around before
being replaced by SED. My guess(tm) would be about 8 years total, so
from 2005, that would be 2013 before introduction.

Ummm... there's also OLED (organic LED) technology, which is really
bright, but has problems with limited lifetime (about 5 years) and
requires better package sealing:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_light-emitting_diode>
OLED products are here today:
<http://www.oqo.com/products/index.html>

Plasma displays are ruining HF reception at my house. Two of my
neighbors have them. When they're on, all I hear on 80 and 40 meters
is noise.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:gi3us416qemmapn6vj4koj8qh5l6t2668g@4ax.com...

On Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:22:37 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

The colour of the light is sick and rancid. I have another in an outside
light. During the winter, that is just about giving its full quota of
light,
by the time it's dawn, and time for it to go off again.

I had similar opinions about CFL bulbs for quite a while. They just
looked reddish with a color temp of about 2500K. One of my former
customers is a lighting store. While working on their machines, I
asked if they had any CFL bulbs with a higher color temperature
approaching daylight at about 5500K. Nope, but some of the "natural
light" bulbs were rated at 3500K, which was worth a try. They looked
somewhat better and as an added bonus, didn't blow up after a few
weeks of operation. A few months later, the "daylight" series of
bulbs arrived at 5000K and up, which were a major improvement.

Most of the discount store CFL bulbs are unrated by color temperature.
Little wonder as I suspect they use whatever bulbs they can buy from
an assortment of vendors. No specs means no consistency.

Some of the bulbs I've used have a fairly long turn on time. This
bugs me but not enough to be concerned. I've learned to live with the
delay.

It's an odd thing, this CRI and colour temperature. I haven't really been
able to figure why I have no problem at all with working under linear
flourescents, no matter whether they are white, daylight or warm white, and
yet, I find there to be something fundamentally 'wrong' with the light from
CFLs, no matter what colour they are. I also have trouble reading under
them, but no problem with linear flourescents. Also, the strike up time, and
sometimes several attempts at striking of a linear, doesn't bother me a jot,
but that brief delay in startup of a CFL bugs the life out of me. Strange
....

Today, I bought two new light fittings for my lounge. Each uses G9 halogen
bulbs, so I hope that these are going to continue to be around for a while !

Arfa

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 01:49:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

It's an odd thing, this CRI and colour temperature. I haven't really been
able to figure why I have no problem at all with working under linear
flourescents, no matter whether they are white, daylight or warm white, and
yet, I find there to be something fundamentally 'wrong' with the light from
CFLs, no matter what colour they are.

Probably because you've been accustomed or have adapted to ordinary
flourescent lamps, as found in offices, public buildings, and most
commercial establishments interested in saving on the cost of
electricity. It does take a while as I vaguely recall complaining
about the same thing when faced with a flourescent desk lamp at home.
I also recall that there was a similar backlash going from gas lamps
to electric. Given sufficient exposure and time, methinks you could
adapter to CFL bulbs.

I also have trouble reading under
them, but no problem with linear flourescents. Also, the strike up time, and
sometimes several attempts at striking of a linear, doesn't bother me a jot,
but that brief delay in startup of a CFL bugs the life out of me. Strange

I also had to adapt to reading and working using CFL bulbs. I have a
"pole lamp" with 4 screw in lamp sockets. I started with all 4 as
incandescent bulbs. I slowly replaced the incandescent bulbs with CFL
bulbs. It took about 2 years, but I now have all CFL bulbs, and am
fully adjusted to their color temperature.

Today, I bought two new light fittings for my lounge. Each uses G9 halogen
bulbs, so I hope that these are going to continue to be around for a while !

Dream on. The efficiency police are active in Europe:
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/3174452/Traditional-lightbulbs-banned-by-EU.html>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[William Sommerwerck]

It's an odd thing, this CRI and colour temperature. I haven't really been
able to figure why I have no problem at all with working under linear
flourescents, no matter whether they are white, daylight or warm white,
and
yet, I find there to be something fundamentally 'wrong' with the light
from
CFLs, no matter what colour they are. I also have trouble reading under
them, but no problem with linear flourescents. Also, the strike up time,
and
sometimes several attempts at striking of a linear, doesn't bother me a
jot,
but that brief delay in startup of a CFL bugs the life out of me. Strange.

Wish I had an answer. I have several Lowell "ego" lights that use CFLs with
a CRI over 90. You can shoot photos at 5500K, and they come out fine.

Either there's something "wrong" with your color vision (which I doubt), or
you just haven't seen good CFLs. Believe me, they exist.

 

b <reverend_rogers@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 22 mar, 14:55, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net
Any views on the reliability of Pioneer plasma?
Thanks in advance.
The pioneers I used to see were all ITT chasis, back in the day of the
CRT!

ITT/SEL probably, except for the ones that used Philips or Thomson
chassis... But that was for the European market. The North American models
might come from a different source. I think RPTV's and Plasma sets were
made by Pioneer themselves.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Maarten Bakker.

 

William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

I have no trouble seeing it. An incandescent bulb takes a fraction of a
second to reach full brightness, and this is plainly visible. 220V bubls
should be no different.

If someone doesn't see it, have them looking at a car with LED
turn-signals and compare the result to looking at a car with incandescent
turn-signals. They will see the difference.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Maarten Bakker.

 

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

trash. Aside from that factor, countries within the EU have a mandate to
recycle any electronic equipment. And so it all starts again, with shipping,
dismantling, recycling and all of the processes and workers which that
involves.

The stuff is usually just crushed and, maybe, if you're lucky, not treated
as hazardous waste but indeed post-processed to recover some of the raw
materials.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Maarten Bakker.

 

[Arfa Daily]

<maarten@wf.dd.invalid> wrote in message
news:e2b15$49d0e239$d4549fe0$6530@news1.tudelft.nl...

William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
I have no trouble seeing it. An incandescent bulb takes a fraction of a
second to reach full brightness, and this is plainly visible. 220V bubls
should be no different.

If someone doesn't see it, have them looking at a car with LED
turn-signals and compare the result to looking at a car with incandescent
turn-signals. They will see the difference.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Maarten Bakker.

People keep mentioning car bulbs, but we are comparing apples and oranges
here, based on the fact that they are both fruit.

One of the reasons that a car bulb is slow to reach full output, is that the
filament has to be made thick and robust for enhanced reliability and
failure proofing from vibration. That makes it have substantial thermal
inertia, so much so that you can indeed see it hot up. On the other hand,
high voltage domestic lightbulbs have no such constraints on their
filaments, as they are not going on and off all the time like a brake light
or indicator, and are not subject to vibration in normal use. This results
in the manufacturers being able to design them with a much more delicate
filament, with the result that, to all intents and purposes, the ramp up to
full output is 'instantaneous'.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

<maarten@wf.dd.invalid> wrote in message
news:eb993$49d0e2cf$d4549fe0$6530@news1.tudelft.nl...

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
trash. Aside from that factor, countries within the EU have a mandate to
recycle any electronic equipment. And so it all starts again, with
shipping,
dismantling, recycling and all of the processes and workers which that
involves.

The stuff is usually just crushed and, maybe, if you're lucky, not treated
as hazardous waste but indeed post-processed to recover some of the raw
materials.

--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Maarten Bakker.

All of which makes a mockery of the EU WEEE directive, treatment of
hazardous wastes directives, and recycling in general ... Just a load more
EU eco-bollox really !

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:16g0t4h775b8e0j8d5kj99ke62b0k3vnr6@4ax.com...

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 01:49:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

It's an odd thing, this CRI and colour temperature. I haven't really been
able to figure why I have no problem at all with working under linear
flourescents, no matter whether they are white, daylight or warm white,
and
yet, I find there to be something fundamentally 'wrong' with the light
from
CFLs, no matter what colour they are.

Probably because you've been accustomed or have adapted to ordinary
flourescent lamps, as found in offices, public buildings, and most
commercial establishments interested in saving on the cost of
electricity. It does take a while as I vaguely recall complaining
about the same thing when faced with a flourescent desk lamp at home.
I also recall that there was a similar backlash going from gas lamps
to electric. Given sufficient exposure and time, methinks you could
adapter to CFL bulbs.

I also have trouble reading under
them, but no problem with linear flourescents. Also, the strike up time,
and
sometimes several attempts at striking of a linear, doesn't bother me a
jot,
but that brief delay in startup of a CFL bugs the life out of me. Strange

I also had to adapt to reading and working using CFL bulbs. I have a
"pole lamp" with 4 screw in lamp sockets. I started with all 4 as
incandescent bulbs. I slowly replaced the incandescent bulbs with CFL
bulbs. It took about 2 years, but I now have all CFL bulbs, and am
fully adjusted to their color temperature.

Today, I bought two new light fittings for my lounge. Each uses G9 halogen
bulbs, so I hope that these are going to continue to be around for a while
!

Dream on. The efficiency police are active in Europe:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/3174452/Traditional-lightbulbs-banned-by-EU.html

Yes Jeff, I'm fully aware of all this eco-bollox nonsense with
incandescents, but as far as I am aware, it doesn't affect halogens for
which there are no direct replacements, at this point in time. The G9 bulb
is about the size of a projector lamp or small headlamp bulb, and nothing
else would fit in a socket intended for one. Many many ceiling light
fittings this side of the pond are now 'decorative' design pieces as well as
being functional, and these invariably use bulbs like the G9 or similar pea
types in a halogen format, so unless they are going to render everyone's
modern light fittings obsolete, including ones that are on sale right now, I
can't see how they can ban this type of bulb.

see

http://www.focusdiy.co.uk/bin/venda?ex=co_wizr-locayta&collate=cat&collate=ivtype&collate=brand&collate=price&collate=pdxttype&collate=pdxtcolour&collate=pdxtfinish&collate=pdxtpower&collate=pdxtspeed&collate=pdxtsuite&collate=pdxtvoltage&collate=pdxtsize&termtextkeywordsearch=lighting&typekeywordsearch=keyword&fieldrtype=type&termtextrtype=invt&typertype=exact&fieldpdxtfinish=pdxtfinish&termtextpdxtfinish=Chrome&typepdxtfinish=exact&termorder=keywordsearch%3Artype%3Apdxtfinish&template=wz_locayta&pagenum=3&perpage=9&threshold=50&spellcorrect=1&datasource=focusen&setpagenum=2

for some examples. (That URL might be a bit long to work correctly from
here). The ones I have just bought are the "Dexter" model at the top.

Arfa

 

[William Sommerwerck]

One of the reasons that a car bulb is slow to reach full output, is that
the
filament has to be made thick and robust for enhanced reliability and
failure proofing from vibration. That makes it have substantial thermal
inertia, so much so that you can indeed see it hot up. On the other hand,
high voltage domestic lightbulbs have no such constraints on their
filaments, as they are not going on and off all the time like a brake
light
or indicator, and are not subject to vibration in normal use. This results
in the manufacturers being able to design them with a much more delicate
filament, with the result that, to all intents and purposes, the ramp up
to
full output is 'instantaneous'.

I don't like disagreeing with you, but this is incorrect. You can easily see
the "ramp up" of household incandescent lights. It's about 1/10 of a second,
and is plainly visible. Some CFLs are (at least visibly) "instantaneous".

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gqrsn3$8e9$1@news.motzarella.org...

One of the reasons that a car bulb is slow to reach full output, is that
the
filament has to be made thick and robust for enhanced reliability and
failure proofing from vibration. That makes it have substantial thermal
inertia, so much so that you can indeed see it hot up. On the other hand,
high voltage domestic lightbulbs have no such constraints on their
filaments, as they are not going on and off all the time like a brake
light
or indicator, and are not subject to vibration in normal use. This
results
in the manufacturers being able to design them with a much more delicate
filament, with the result that, to all intents and purposes, the ramp up
to
full output is 'instantaneous'.

I don't like disagreeing with you, but this is incorrect. You can easily
see
the "ramp up" of household incandescent lights. It's about 1/10 of a
second,
and is plainly visible. Some CFLs are (at least visibly) "instantaneous".

Well, maybe the driving voltage does have something to do with it then. With
double the line voltage here that you have there, I can honestly say that I
cannot see any perceivable delay between flicking the switch, and having
light. I have asked a number of people the question, and not one of them has
said that they can either. Not that that is much of a scientific test, of
course. Interestingly though, the ones that I said that I could see ramp up,
are low voltage halogens. So I wonder if the fact that low voltage bulbs
need amps through them, to get the same filament power as a line voltage
bulb does with miliamps, dictates how robust the filament needs to be, and
hence how much theremal inertia it has? I know that halogens run a hotter
filament to get slightly brighter light, but you can also see the low
voltage ones visibly cool as well, which would lend creedence to the theory
that the filament is more robust.

It is not a function of the fact that the bulbs are of a halogen type per
se, as the fittings that I have just bought also use halogen bulbs, but
unlike the fittings that they are replacing, which *were* low voltage (12v
AC nominal), these are line voltage types. They definitely appear to come on
pretty much 'instantaneously'.

So, perhaps a US 110v bulb, does take twice as long to reach 'full' output,
as a 240v one, and that is indeed enough to be able to see ?

Arfa

 

[William Sommerwerck]

So, perhaps a US 110v bulb, does take twice as long to reach 'full'
output,
as a 240v one, and that is indeed enough to be able to see ?

I don't know. A 100W 240V bulb would have 4 times the resistance, so I don't
see it "warming up" any more quickly (or slowly).

 

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gqt1us$6en$1@news.motzarella.org...

So, perhaps a US 110v bulb, does take twice as long to reach 'full'
output,
as a 240v one, and that is indeed enough to be able to see ?

I don't know. A 100W 240V bulb would have 4 times the resistance, so I
don't
see it "warming up" any more quickly (or slowly).

But if the filament is of a more 'delicate' CSA, that might well give it
less thermal inertia, leading to it heating quicker ? Based on what you are
saying, there is no reason why a low voltage 50 watt car bulb, should heat
any slower than a 50w 240v bulb, but obviously it does, as the ramp up time
can be very clearly seen on them.

Anybody over there got a photodiode, a storage 'scope, and the time to hook
'em together to have a look at just how long the time delay is? Once that
was known, I could do the same here to get a rough comparison.

Arfa

 

[Eeyore]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

b) production of plasma sets is to be ceased if it hasn't been
already. As such, it could even be seen, in tech terms, as 'old
technology'.

I'm curious as to where you got this information. It's amazing how an
"old-technology" set is generally considered to be the best direct-view TV
made.

Power consumption. I'd expect more problems to arise if you use the TV a lot.

Graham

 

[msg]

Arfa Daily wrote:

<snip>

Based on what you are
saying, there is no reason why a low voltage 50 watt car bulb, should heat
any slower than a 50w 240v bulb, but obviously it does, as the ramp up time
can be very clearly seen on them.

Anybody over there got a photodiode, a storage 'scope, and the time to hook
'em together to have a look at just how long the time delay is? Once that
was known, I could do the same here to get a rough comparison.

Sure, but getting to it is the issue; I had promised to run remote controls
near a radio receiver to listen for RFI too and haven't got to that either.
Perhaps this weekend; if done I'll post the results and a link to an image
file for the waveform.

Michael

 

[Ken]

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 02:47:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Dream on. The efficiency police are active in Europe:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/3174452/Traditional-lightbulbs-banned-by-EU.html


Yes Jeff, I'm fully aware of all this eco-bollox nonsense with
incandescents, but as far as I am aware, it doesn't affect halogens for
which there are no direct replacements, at this point in time. The G9 bulb
is about the size of a projector lamp or small headlamp bulb, and nothing
else would fit in a socket intended for one. Many many ceiling light
fittings this side of the pond are now 'decorative' design pieces as well as
being functional, and these invariably use bulbs like the G9 or similar pea
types in a halogen format, so unless they are going to render everyone's
modern light fittings obsolete, including ones that are on sale right now, I
can't see how they can ban this type of bulb.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/4222445/Power-hungry-plasma-screen-televisions-to-be-banned-under-new-EU-legislation.html

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/energy-hog-plasma-tvs-getting-banned-from-eu.php

 

[William Sommerwerck]

b) production of plasma sets is to be ceased if it hasn't been
already. As such, it could even be seen, in tech terms, as 'old
technology'.

I'm curious as to where you got this information. It's amazing how an
"old-technology" set is generally considered to be the best direct-view
TV made.

Power consumption. I'd expect more problems to arise if you use the TV a
lot.

The Pioneer runs surprisingly cool. And it's well-ventilated.

 

[Eeyore]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

b) production of plasma sets is to be ceased if it hasn't been
already. As such, it could even be seen, in tech terms, as 'old
technology'.

I'm curious as to where you got this information. It's amazing how an
"old-technology" set is generally considered to be the best direct-view
TV made.

Power consumption. I'd expect more problems to arise if you use the TV a
lot.

The Pioneer runs surprisingly cool. And it's well-ventilated.

That's an encouraging sign.

Graham