Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

[Charlie Gibbs]

In article <8q15u6FsefU1@mid.individual.net>, rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
(Rod Speed) writes:

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote

Furthermore it was originally close to a copy of CP/M.

Pigs arse it was.

Look up Seattle Computer Systems and QDOS, a quick-and-dirty
rewrite of CP/M for the 8086.

I think we are in strong agreement about how little innovation has
come out of MS.

Just because a couple of clowns claim something, doesnt make it
gospel.

That's just as true when one of the clowns is Bill Gates.

--
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[Charlie Gibbs]

In article <20110123073328.9a4a3ccb.steveo@eircom.net>,
steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot) writes:

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:46:54 +1100
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
SG1 wrote just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.

Well that didn't take long this time.

At least he's chosen new catchphrases.

--
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[Charlie Gibbs]

In article <8q3kkcFjj3U1@mid.individual.net>, rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
(Rod Speed) writes:

Seebs wrote

The point is that Linux runs with many interfaces other than KDE and
Gnome.

The real point is that so much of the Win UI has ended up in *nix
GUIs.

Show us the source code.

Oh wait, you argued the opposite over MS-DOS's CP/M heritage...

--
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[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:35:48 +0000 (UTC)
Roland Hutchinson <my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:12:19 +0000, Joe Thompson wrote:

On 2011-01-24, Jim Brown <jb45678@gmail.com> wrote:
Seebs wrote
However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that, say, you
basically get to choose which products to buy.

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite
literally free.

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.

If the only way to get a burger king burger were to buy a burger from
McD's, at which point you could throw the burger out but keep the
carton, then go to BK and have them put a free burger in the carton,
that would not be a "real choice"

Corse it would be.

Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted burger, so that
my free burger was actually free. -- Joe

I'm sorry, but your burger was licensed only for eating out of the
original carton. It has no value by itself.

I was wondering about the legality of porting the cheese.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

 

[Roland Hutchinson]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:12:19 +0000, Joe Thompson wrote:

On 2011-01-24, Jim Brown <jb45678@gmail.com> wrote:
Seebs wrote
However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that, say, you
basically get to choose which products to buy.

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite
literally free.

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.

If the only way to get a burger king burger were to buy a burger from
McD's, at which point you could throw the burger out but keep the
carton, then go to BK and have them put a free burger in the carton,
that would not be a "real choice"

Corse it would be.

Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted burger, so that
my free burger was actually free. -- Joe

I'm sorry, but your burger was licensed only for eating out of the
original carton. It has no value by itself.

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

In article <20110123120012.c724b17e.steveo@eircom.net>,
steveo@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot) writes:

BASIC in a ROM as the command interface of a microcomputer was
AFAICT a genuine Microsoft innovation.

And along with it, the misspelling of "OK" as "Ok", which has gone viral.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
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[Charlie Gibbs]

In article <ihiq9v$87h$2@xen1.xcski.com>, spam+@orion-com.com
(Joe Thompson) writes:

On 2011-01-23, Jim Brown <jb45678@gmail.com> wrote:

Seebs wrote

Back in the day, I once spent a day and a half trying to find
a vendor who was willing to sell me a non-Windows laptop.

But was so stupid that you couldnt even manage to work out that
even you should be able to add anything you liked to the hardware.

It doesn't count as a "real choice" unless it's on the same terms.
If I have to pay for Windows even though I intend to wipe the drive
and install another OS before Windows ever boots, I do not have a real
choice. -- Joe

Nor is it a choice in environments where other people are sending you
files in proprietary Microsoft formats.

There's a lot more to choice than mere availability.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
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[Peter Flass]

On 1/24/2011 11:12 AM, Joe Thompson wrote:

On 2011-01-24, Jim Brown<jb45678@gmail.com> wrote:
Seebs wrote
However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that,
say, you basically get to choose which products to buy.

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite
literally free.

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.

If the only way to get a burger king burger were to buy
a burger from McD's, at which point you could throw the
burger out but keep the carton, then go to BK and have them
put a free burger in the carton, that would not be a "real choice"

Corse it would be.

Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted burger, so that
my free burger was actually free. -- Joe

Even then, the hassle involved in buying the mickey-D's burger and then
returning it would be enough to make most people not want to bother.

I really like this example.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

In article <4d3b88e5$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, lostitall@the.races (SG1)
writes:

"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote in message
news:1088.74T1650T5634719@kltpzyxm.invalid...

You really ought to read "Nineteen Eighty-Four" again.

Charlie Asking Roddles to read, that is going too far. Your average
preschooler only looks at pictures.

But that's what GUIs are all about, aren't they?

--
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[Charlie Gibbs]

In article <8q1jn3FhpbU1@mid.individual.net>, rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com
(Rod Speed) writes:

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
SG1 wrote just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.

You did it, SG1. You got him looping again.

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
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[Rod Speed]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Jasen Betts wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Joe Thompson wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

Well before MultiFinder as I said, and MultiFinder wasnt OS multitasking anyway.

Sure it was.

Nope, it was an addon, not multitasking as part of the OS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MultiFinder

So was windows until NT.

Nope. And that was well after multitasking in Win anyway.

You missed the point

Yeah, looks like it.

- until NT Windows wasn't an OS,

Thats a lie.

MSDOS was the OS and Windows was an addon.

Another lie.

 

[Jim Brown]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote

Jim Brown <jb45678@gmail.com> wrote
Seebs wrote

However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that,
say, you basically get to choose which products to buy.

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite literally free.

It's not free if you account for your time.

The word WHEN was included for a reason.

When the only way to buy a PC is to buy it with Windows installed (and
therefore paid for)> the cost of installing Windows is zero (no money, no time).

Thats wrong too when all of them have shit that many dont bother with
that has to either be removed or at least the offer to install is refused etc.

The cost of installing another OS is the cost of
obtaining it (download time plus blank media -

Not if you have it already as part of the process of deciding what you want on the laptop.

or purchase cost of installation media at a minimum) plus the
(moderately skilled) time it takes to install it. That's not zero.

Yes, but it can still be quite literally free, most obviously
with a personal laptop where your time has no dollar value.

And even when it does cost minimally because your time isnt free,
you STILL have a real choice. The fact that what you prefer isnt
what the bulk of the market prefers is irrelevant to the FACT that
you have a real choice.

Now this all changes if you get the PC without an
OS for less than the cost of the same PC with an OS

No it doesnt as far as what is being discussed is concerned, whether you have a REAL CHOICE or not.

or if there is a choice of pre-installed OS on the hardware
of your choice. Neither is common even now.

It does exist tho. The fact that it isnt common just shows
that what you prefer isnt what the bulk of the market prefers.

Doesnt alter the fact that you have always had a real choice and do in spades now.

No one with even half a clue ever said that its only a real choice when the prices of the alternatives are identical.

You have a real choice in the car you buy even tho the prices vary widely.

 

[Roland Hutchinson]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:34:08 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:35:48 +0000 (UTC) Roland Hutchinson
my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:12:19 +0000, Joe Thompson wrote:

On 2011-01-24, Jim Brown <jb45678@gmail.com> wrote:
Seebs wrote
However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that, say, you
basically get to choose which products to buy.

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite
literally free.

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.

If the only way to get a burger king burger were to buy a burger
from McD's, at which point you could throw the burger out but keep
the carton, then go to BK and have them put a free burger in the
carton, that would not be a "real choice"

Corse it would be.

Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted burger, so
that my free burger was actually free. -- Joe

I'm sorry, but your burger was licensed only for eating out of the
original carton. It has no value by itself.

I was wondering about the legality of porting the cheese.

Your only option is to return the complete burger for a refund in
original, unopened box.

Installation of third-party cheese voids the warranty.

You want fries with that?

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

 

[Jim Brown]

Joe Thompson wrote

Jim Brown <jb45678@gmail.com> wrote
Seebs wrote

However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that,
say, you basically get to choose which products to buy.

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite literally free.

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.

Its still a real choice. In spades when the alternative is quite literally free.

If the only way to get a burger king burger were to buy
a burger from McD's, at which point you could throw the
burger out but keep the carton, then go to BK and have them
put a free burger in the carton, that would not be a "real choice"

Corse it would be.

Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted
burger, so that my free burger was actually free.

Still a real choice. You have a real choice of car to buy even tho they arent
all identically priced and not all of them have all the dealers cosited etc.

 

[Rod Speed]

Charlie Gibbs wrote

rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com (Rod Speed) writes
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote

Furthermore it was originally close to a copy of CP/M.

Pigs arse it was.

Look up Seattle Computer Systems and QDOS,

Dont need to look it up, I posted a link to the detail of it.

a quick-and-dirty rewrite of CP/M for the 8086.

Like hell it was a quick and dirty rewrite. It JUST used a
common api approach to make porting of apps easy and
improved on CP/M in some areas like with the drive ops.

It was nothing like a copy of CP/M.

I think we are in strong agreement about how little innovation has come out of MS.

Just because a couple of clowns claim something, doesnt make it gospel.

That's just as true when one of the clowns is Bill Gates.

You're so stupid you havent even noticed basic in rom. That is a
clear innovation from MS that did get used even by IBM themselves.

 

[Rod Speed]

Charlie Gibbs wrote

Rod Speed wrote
Seebs wrote

The point is that Linux runs with many interfaces other than KDE and Gnome.

The real point is that so much of the Win UI has ended up in *nix GUIs.

Show us the source code.

Never said a word about the code, what ended up in the *nix GUIs was the UI look and feel, stupid.

Oh wait, you argued the opposite over MS-DOS's CP/M heritage...

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying.

 

[Jim Brown]

Charlie Gibbs wrote

(Joe Thompson) writes:
Jim Brown <jb45678@gmail.com> wrote
Seebs wrote

Back in the day, I once spent a day and a half trying to find
a vendor who was willing to sell me a non-Windows laptop.

But was so stupid that you couldnt even manage to work out that
even you should be able to add anything you liked to the hardware.

It doesn't count as a "real choice" unless it's on the same terms.
If I have to pay for Windows even though I intend to wipe the drive
and install another OS before Windows ever boots, I do not have a
real choice.

Nor is it a choice in environments where other people
are sending you files in proprietary Microsoft formats.

You can obviously use something that can handle those.

There's a lot more to choice than mere availability.

Using that utterly mindless line, there never is any real choice anywhere.

And that is quite obviously mindlessly silly.

 

[Roland Hutchinson]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:05:14 -0500, Peter Flass wrote:

On 1/24/2011 11:12 AM, Joe Thompson wrote:
On 2011-01-24, Jim Brown<jb45678@gmail.com> wrote:
Seebs wrote
However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that, say, you
basically get to choose which products to buy.

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite
literally free.

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.

If the only way to get a burger king burger were to buy a burger from
McD's, at which point you could throw the burger out but keep the
carton, then go to BK and have them put a free burger in the carton,
that would not be a "real choice"

Corse it would be.

Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted burger, so that
my free burger was actually free. -- Joe

Even then, the hassle involved in buying the mickey-D's burger and then
returning it would be enough to make most people not want to bother.

I really like this example.

Computer retailers -- even the good ones, if such are postulated to exist
-- resemble burger chains more than they like to let on: "You know, we
can supersize that MacBook to a MacBook Pro for you for just an
additional two-fifty..."

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

 

[Stan Barr]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:55:44 +0000 (UTC), Joe Thompson <spam+@orion-com.com> wrote:

On 2011-01-24, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote
- until NT Windows wasn't an OS,

Thats a lie.
s
MSDOS was the OS and Windows was an addon.

Another lie.

Were you even around in the pre-Win95 days? The way it worked was that
DOS would boot, then you'd start Windows (or AUTOEXEC.BAT would do it)
using the WIN command. Windows 3.x and its antecedents were really just
DOS shells with fancy APIs available, kinda like GNOME is not the same
as the underlying OS but adds its own APIs.

It wasn't until WinNT/Win95 that you could boot Windows directly as a
bare-metal OS. -- Joe

Indeed. And I remember thinking when W95 came out (late!) how much
Microsoft had "borrowed" from MacOS, AmigaOS, Next and the *nix window
managers.

--
Cheers,
Stan Barr plan.b .at. dsl .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!

 

[Joe Thompson]

On 2011-01-24, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote
- until NT Windows wasn't an OS,

Thats a lie.

MSDOS was the OS and Windows was an addon.

Another lie.

Were you even around in the pre-Win95 days? The way it worked was that
DOS would boot, then you'd start Windows (or AUTOEXEC.BAT would do it)
using the WIN command. Windows 3.x and its antecedents were really just
DOS shells with fancy APIs available, kinda like GNOME is not the same
as the underlying OS but adds its own APIs.

It wasn't until WinNT/Win95 that you could boot Windows directly as a
bare-metal OS. -- Joe
--
Joe Thompson -
E-mail addresses in headers are valid. | http://www.orion-com.com/
"...the FDA takes a dim view of exploding pharmaceuticals..." -- Derek Lowe