Radio won't stop playing Christmas music

On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 08:19:08 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

The 1950 ish console my parents had did pick up the local
AM station with the radio off. There was no long antenna.

I'm curious as to what the mechanism was...

The station was located bout 3/4 of a mile away and the console

was all tube with a transformer that fed the speaker.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:22:45 -0800 (PST), Jimmy
<JimmyGeldburg@mailinator.com> wrote:

When I turn the radio on, I hear several stations at once if it's
switched to FM. It works reasonably well on AM.

It's not coming from the radio. It's coming from the fillings in your
teeth.
<http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/fillings.asp>
To make an FM ratio detector or discriminator, you need two diodes and
therefore two fillings, probably on each side of your mouth. If
you've had recent dental work, this is a possibility. Try gargling
with something alkaline and see if the music goes away.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

I had a dead car radio pick up a FM station, even though the
output transistor had an open emitter. I was near the base of
the tower at a transmitter site when someone preaching came
out of the speaker. I was less than 1000 feet from the tower
that had five, 50 KW transmitters feeding the curtain antenna.

With 250kW, it's surprising you didn't hear the station through your
fillings.

I didn't have any fillings, or I might have. There was also a 5 MW
EIRP Ch. 55 and a 1.8 MW EIRP Ch. 64 UHF signal, plus about 100 250 W
VHF high band & UHF two way radio transmitters. We were also in the
path of a 4 GHz ATT microwave relay and had multiple UHF and microwave
STL links aimed at the site. The only place I saw that was worse was
the VOA Bethany plant (Morrow Ohio) with 10, 50 KW HF transmitters on
various short wave bands. You could hold a florescent lamp inside the
facility and it would light from stray RF. It's intensity changed, with
the modulation of the various tansmitters. The only way to 'turn it
off' was to stick it in a locker.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:22:45 -0800 (PST), Jimmy
JimmyGeldburg@mailinator.com> wrote:

When I turn the radio on, I hear several stations at once if it's
switched to FM. It works reasonably well on AM.

It's not coming from the radio. It's coming from the fillings in your
teeth.
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/fillings.asp
To make an FM ratio detector or discriminator, you need two diodes and
therefore two fillings, probably on each side of your mouth. If
you've had recent dental work, this is a possibility. Try gargling
with something alkaline and see if the music goes away.

Snopes has never heard of 'Slope Detection'?


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

 

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 12/26/2010 5:15 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Snopes has never heard of 'Slope Detection'?

They were never in Korea...

Slope Detection was a necessary way of staying alive.

Snickers.

Jeff

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The only place I saw that was worse was the VOA Bethany
plant (Morrow Ohio) with 10, 50 KW HF transmitters on
various short wave bands. You could hold a fluorescent lamp
inside the facility and it would light from stray RF.

Michael, I know you well enough to know you almost know what you're talking
about, and you're /not/ a liar, but I find that hard to believe. How could
the field strength be high enough to ionize the gas without also ionizing
one's brain (or other bodily parts)?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The 1950 ish console my parents had did pick up the local
AM station with the radio off. There was no long antenna.

I'm curious as to what the mechanism was...

The station was located bout 3/4 of a mile away and the
console was all tube with a transformer that fed the speaker.

By "mechanism", I meant what was going on electrically. How was the signal
picked up, demodulated, and fed to the speaker at sufficient level to be
audible?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

When I turn the radio on, I hear several stations at once if it's
switched to FM. It works reasonably well on AM.

It's not coming from the radio. It's coming from the fillings in your
teeth.
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/fillings.asp
To make an FM ratio detector or discriminator, you need two
diodes and therefore two fillings, probably on each side of your
mouth.

Not necessarily. If he tilted his head, wouldn't he get slope detection from
just one filling?

 

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 12/26/2010 7:29 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

How could the field strength be high enough to ionize
the gas without also ionizing one's brain (or other
bodily parts)?

Well, I had the same experience while working at Mt.
Wilson in the Los Angeles area.

A Bird Watt meter would typically read 3-5 watts by
itself. Without being hooked up.

And yes, RF levels like that are why OSHA came up with
with requirements for the "lead jump suit from hell".

Jeff

 

[William Sommerwerck]

How could the field strength be high enough to ionize
the gas without also ionizing one's brain (or other
bodily parts)?

Well, I had the same experience while working at Mt.
Wilson in the Los Angeles area.
A Bird wattmeter would typically read 3-5 watts by
itself. Without being hooked up.
And yes, RF levels like that are why OSHA came up
with with requirements for the "lead jump suit from hell".

You didn't feel any tingling or other physiological effects?

 

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 12/26/2010 8:11 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

How could the field strength be high enough to ionize
the gas without also ionizing one's brain (or other
bodily parts)?

Well, I had the same experience while working at Mt.
Wilson in the Los Angeles area.
A Bird wattmeter would typically read 3-5 watts by
itself. Without being hooked up.
And yes, RF levels like that are why OSHA came up
with with requirements for the "lead jump suit from hell".

You didn't feel any tingling or other physiological effects?

Nope. be we always made it a point to get in, get done and
get out as quickly as possible.

Jeff

 

[Meat Plow]

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 06:14:35 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

William Sommerwerck wrote:

I had a dead car radio pick up a FM station, even though the output
transistor had an open emitter. I was near the base of the tower at a
transmitter site when someone preaching came out of the speaker. I
was less than 1000 feet from the tower that had five, 50 KW
transmitters feeding the curtain antenna.

With 250kW, it's surprising you didn't hear the station through your
fillings.


I didn't have any fillings, or I might have. There was also a 5 MW
EIRP Ch. 55 and a 1.8 MW EIRP Ch. 64 UHF signal, plus about 100 250 W
VHF high band & UHF two way radio transmitters. We were also in the
path of a 4 GHz ATT microwave relay and had multiple UHF and microwave
STL links aimed at the site. The only place I saw that was worse was
the VOA Bethany plant (Morrow Ohio) with 10, 50 KW HF transmitters on
various short wave bands. You could hold a florescent lamp inside the
facility and it would light from stray RF. It's intensity changed, with
the modulation of the various tansmitters. The only way to 'turn it
off' was to stick it in a locker.

Weren't the ATT relays 6 and 10 ghz?



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[Jamie]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

When I turn the radio on, I hear several stations at once if it's
switched to FM. It works reasonably well on AM.


It's not coming from the radio. It's coming from the fillings in your
teeth.
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/fillings.asp
To make an FM ratio detector or discriminator, you need two
diodes and therefore two fillings, probably on each side of your
mouth.


Not necessarily. If he tilted his head, wouldn't he get slope detection from
just one filling?


No, you tilted your head to change the detection angle of the radio wave

polarity, thus, getting bipolar detection.

Jamie

 

[Jamie]

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 12/26/2010 7:29 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

How could the field strength be high enough to ionize
the gas without also ionizing one's brain (or other
bodily parts)?


Well, I had the same experience while working at Mt.
Wilson in the Los Angeles area.

A Bird Watt meter would typically read 3-5 watts by
itself. Without being hooked up.

And yes, RF levels like that are why OSHA came up with
with requirements for the "lead jump suit from hell".

Jeff
Ah, Bird Meters, I have a couple of those with the slugs.

Nice meters how ever, I could never understand their value
over other meters that get the job done.

Jamie

--

 

[Ian Field]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:if7g0o$bl9$1@news.eternal-september.org...

The only place I saw that was worse was the VOA Bethany
plant (Morrow Ohio) with 10, 50 KW HF transmitters on
various short wave bands. You could hold a fluorescent lamp
inside the facility and it would light from stray RF.

Michael, I know you well enough to know you almost know what you're
talking
about, and you're /not/ a liar, but I find that hard to believe. How could
the field strength be high enough to ionize the gas without also ionizing
one's brain (or other bodily parts)?

Back when CB was the latest new toy I heard plenty of anecdotes about rigs
with power boosters causing florescent tubes to glow when keyed.

When I was a kid me and a few lads raided the council tip (which didn't have
any fence back then). We found half a skip of dumped florescent tubes.

Initially we got on our bicycles and used the tubes as lances in a jousting
contest, but when we held up a tube under the National Grid 400kV pylons we
found the tube glowed quite visibly as dusk fell.

We planted a small forrest of tubes in the mud under the overhead cables
close to the railway line to entertain the late commuters as their train
went past.

 

[Ian Field]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:KtednQmkqNt5vorQnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@earthlink.com...

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:22:45 -0800 (PST), Jimmy
JimmyGeldburg@mailinator.com> wrote:

When I turn the radio on, I hear several stations at once if it's
switched to FM. It works reasonably well on AM.

It's not coming from the radio. It's coming from the fillings in your
teeth.
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/fillings.asp
To make an FM ratio detector or discriminator, you need two diodes and
therefore two fillings, probably on each side of your mouth. If
you've had recent dental work, this is a possibility. Try gargling
with something alkaline and see if the music goes away.


Snopes has never heard of 'Slope Detection'?

In the early days of 625line UHF TV quite a lot of British made TVs used
slope detection for the 6Mhz FM sound carrier.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 06:15:48 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:22:45 -0800 (PST), Jimmy
JimmyGeldburg@mailinator.com> wrote:

When I turn the radio on, I hear several stations at once if it's
switched to FM. It works reasonably well on AM.

It's not coming from the radio. It's coming from the fillings in your
teeth.
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/fillings.asp
To make an FM ratio detector or discriminator, you need two diodes and
therefore two fillings, probably on each side of your mouth. If
you've had recent dental work, this is a possibility. Try gargling
with something alkaline and see if the music goes away.

Snopes has never heard of 'Slope Detection'?

Slope detection works with some sort of frequency to amplitude
conversion contrivance. That might be possible if Jimmy's mouth or
head were a fairly high Q resonant cavity with the FM station on the
filter skirts. If true, he should be able to open and close his mouth
to affect the tuning. Perhaps lining the inside (or outside) of the
mouth, or possibly the head, with aluminium foil might improve the Q
and therefore the selectivity. Inserting a megaphone in the mouth
might be useful for having others share the experience.

Resonant frequency of the human skull (about 400MHz):
<http://books.google.com/books?id=NNqCbnToEYYC&pg=PA97>

Slope Detector:
<http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=V11hAAAAEBAJ>
Patented in 1929. Uses one or two diodes.

More on "cavity" detector technology:
<http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=367925>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 08:01:05 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
<jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:

Well, I had the same experience while working at Mt.
Wilson in the Los Angeles area.

A Bird Watt meter would typically read 3-5 watts by
itself. Without being hooked up.

And yes, RF levels like that are why OSHA came up with
with requirements for the "lead jump suit from hell".

High fashion RF protection:
<http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html>

Been there, done that. We had to use incandescent lights in the
building under the NBC tower because the fluorescent lights would not
turn off until someone kludged a 3 way wall switch to short out the
lights when off. I had a bag of NE-2 neon lamps that would light up
on some antenna connectors. These daze, the fillings in my teeth
would hurt when I go up to Umunhum, Mt Toro or Hidden Hills. I
recently had them replaced with UV setting cement, which hopefully
will eliminate the problem.

Also, Bird wattmeters are not my idea of accurate. 5% of full scale
at best. That means that if you use a 100 watt slug to measure a 25
watt transmitter, your actual power can be anywhere from 20 to 30
watts. What's inside:
<http://www.repeater-builder.com/projects/bird-element-tour/bird-element-tour.html>
I never can get an accurate VWSR reading on a broadcast mountain top
because the reverse power from antenna pickup would never really go
away. I usually have to throw in a BPF cavity between the antenna and
the wattmeter to get rid of the broadcast leakage.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Meat Plow]

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 10:26:40 -0500, Jamie wrote:

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 12/26/2010 7:29 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

How could the field strength be high enough to ionize the gas without
also ionizing one's brain (or other bodily parts)?


Well, I had the same experience while working at Mt. Wilson in the Los
Angeles area.

A Bird Watt meter would typically read 3-5 watts by itself. Without
being hooked up.

And yes, RF levels like that are why OSHA came up with with
requirements for the "lead jump suit from hell".

Jeff
Ah, Bird Meters, I have a couple of those with the slugs.

Nice meters how ever, I could never understand their value
over other meters that get the job done.

Jamie

Bird meters and other test equipment were pretty simple to use and
calibrated to government standards. I used to repair and install public
service communications equipment and the Bird was the gold standard.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[Jimmy]

mzen...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) wrote:

In article <if4qt6$rp...@news.eternal-september.org>,

William Sommerwerck <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote:
A radio cannot play when it's switched off. You can't pick up enough energy

If "off" is really "off", and not "on, but waiting for the remote
control".

Yes, this radio has "soft" on-off buttons (momentary switches on a
circuit board).

You hear stories about people who live near a large city's antenna farm,
where the fluorescent lamps glow even with no wiring.  If one of the
local FM stations is badly maintained enough that it has residual AM on
its signal due to a mis-tuned transmitter, you could get this effect.

The transmitter for this station is on a building about 2 miles away,
with dense city development in between.

But I suspect the problem is entirely within my radio, since I've
never had similar problems with other radios.

Jimmy