Question for the Leftpondians - completely OT ... :-)

[Archon]

On 6/26/2012 8:06 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:>> with a truck engine, so
maybe not. I have seen signs here though at the

I wonder if vehicle size difference is part of the reason jake brakes
would seem to be less common outside the US.

a large truck in europe is small here in the US.

I think only Australia outdoes the US with their road trains.

It's the same with railways, a large european freight train would be
crushed to bits in a crash with a commuter passenger train from the US.
Laws here don't permit passenger trains to be made of paper cups and used
tissue like in germany. Everything is large and heavy.

Canada does run longer heavier trains than in the US though.

Ever been out of the States? Europeans don't use steam any more you
know. I think you will find the max laden truck weight is higher in
Europe. US trucks are so crap, 1950's engines. Crawl up hill, no brakes
down hill. Driven by suicidal Mex's. Always tailgating, All chrome and
no safety gear, no spray suppression, no side bars, ineffective tail
bars, totally lethal to other drivers. Stay well away from them on
interstates. We have a couple rollover almost every day here in NJ.
Usually trash trucks from NY. JC

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Archon:

US trucks are so crap, 1950's engines. Crawl up hill, no brakes
down hill. Driven by suicidal Mex's. Always tailgating, All chrome and
no safety gear, no spray suppression, no side bars, ineffective tail
bars, totally lethal to other drivers. Stay well away from them on
interstates. We have a couple rollover almost every day here in NJ.

Can't comment on equipment bc I don't know diddley.

But I drive in the Philadelphia/South Jersey area and it seems to
me like 98% of the drivers are pretty good. Yeah, every so often
one sees the guy who thinks he's driving a car... but I'd bet he
is not a professional driver, and maybe not even legal.

The vast majority of the time they look to me like they are
driving about as safe as they can given so many automobile
drivers texting, talking on cell phones, passing on the right,
and so-forth.
--
Pete Cresswell

 

[spamtrap1888]

On Jun 28, 4:59 pm, Archon <Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 6/26/2012 8:06 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:>> with a truck engine, so
maybe not. I have seen signs here though at the











I wonder if vehicle size difference is part of the reason jake brakes
would seem to be less common outside the US.

a large truck in europe is small here in the US.

I think only Australia outdoes the US with their road trains.

It's the same with railways, a large european freight train would be
crushed to bits in a crash with a commuter passenger train from the US.
Laws here don't permit passenger trains to be made of paper cups and used
tissue like in germany. Everything is large and heavy.

Canada does run longer heavier trains than in the US though.

Ever been out of the States? Europeans don't use steam any more you
know. I think you will find the max laden truck weight is higher in
Europe. US trucks are so crap, 1950's engines. Crawl up hill, no brakes
down hill. Driven by suicidal Mex's.  Always tailgating, All chrome and
no safety gear, no spray suppression, no side bars, ineffective tail
bars, totally lethal to other drivers. Stay well away from them on
interstates. We have a couple rollover almost every day here in NJ.
Usually trash trucks from NY. JC

At least in North America the truck tractor's exhaust does not point
right at the motorist in the next lane. And the semitrailers are
almost always metal boxes, not cloth-covered frames.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"spamtrap1888" <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:29dc058f-42c9-4f6b-b3eb-a7365f451c3e@oo8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

On Jun 28, 4:59 pm, Archon <Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 6/26/2012 8:06 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:>> with a truck engine, so
maybe not. I have seen signs here though at the











I wonder if vehicle size difference is part of the reason jake brakes
would seem to be less common outside the US.

a large truck in europe is small here in the US.

I think only Australia outdoes the US with their road trains.

It's the same with railways, a large european freight train would be
crushed to bits in a crash with a commuter passenger train from the US.
Laws here don't permit passenger trains to be made of paper cups and
used
tissue like in germany. Everything is large and heavy.

Canada does run longer heavier trains than in the US though.

Ever been out of the States? Europeans don't use steam any more you
know. I think you will find the max laden truck weight is higher in
Europe. US trucks are so crap, 1950's engines. Crawl up hill, no brakes
down hill. Driven by suicidal Mex's. Always tailgating, All chrome and
no safety gear, no spray suppression, no side bars, ineffective tail
bars, totally lethal to other drivers. Stay well away from them on
interstates. We have a couple rollover almost every day here in NJ.
Usually trash trucks from NY. JC

At least in North America the truck tractor's exhaust does not point
right at the motorist in the next lane. And the semitrailers are
almost always metal boxes, not cloth-covered frames.

Well, to be fair, the exhausts on an awful lot of European trucks also run
vertically up the back of the cab like Kenworths and Peterbilts. And most
trailers are also metal box construction. The curtain-siders (it's not
really 'cloth' - more of a *very* tough plasticised tarp) are used for the
most part for the special purpose of 'palletized deliveries' which is maybe
something that's not done in the U.S. ??

It's a system where a central company runs goods around the country for many
different clients on the same truck. Schedules are arranged such that as
goods are dropped off in towns, more goods are picked up to keep the truck
moving around as full as possible. It cuts down on fuel wastage and road
wastage by not having 'returning to depot' trucks running around empty, and
cuts down on costs for the companies that are having their goods shipped by
them not having to maintain their own truck fleet, or having to try to keep
their own trucks full.

The system only works if the goods to be shipped are palletised, and able to
be got at, no matter where their load point is on the trailer. So, they are
stacked on a curtain-sider, in two rows, running the length of the trailer.
That way, when the driver reaches a drop-off point, he can just pull back
the curtain on the appropriate side, to allow the fork truck to get in there
and remove the pallets. When he arrives at another collection, the
previously emptied space is again easily accessible to be reloaded. The
curtain material is very tough, and pretty much affords the same protection
to the load, as an aluminium box trailer. And if the trailer bed has been
properly loaded, there is no issue with the goods moving about.

Some companies that have their own trucks, still use curtain-siders, because
their goods are palletised anyway, and it can just be easier to load and
unload in some goods depots, if the fork truck can get to the sides of the
trailer, rather than the driver having to manually pallet-truck the goods to
the back, or handball boxes to the back as would be the case with a box
trailer. Just horses for courses, I guess.

Arfa

The U.S. may be just geographically too large for such a system to work ??

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Arfa Daily:

The curtain-siders (it's not
really 'cloth' - more of a *very* tough plasticised tarp) are used for the
most part for the special purpose of 'palletized deliveries' which is maybe
something that's not done in the U.S. ??

I've seen trailers like that in the USA. Never had a clue as to
their function, though - and I don't know what was inside (i.e.
if the cargo was palletized).
--
Pete Cresswell

 

[spamtrap1888]

On Jun 29, 6:24 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"spamtrap1888" <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:29dc058f-42c9-4f6b-b3eb-a7365f451c3e@oo8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...



On Jun 28, 4:59 pm, Archon <Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 6/26/2012 8:06 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:>> with a truck engine, so
maybe not. I have seen signs here though at the

I wonder if vehicle size difference is part of the reason jake brakes
would seem to be less common outside the US.

a large truck in europe is small here in the US.

I think only Australia outdoes the US with their road trains.

It's the same with railways, a large european freight train would be
crushed to bits in a crash with a commuter passenger train from the US.
Laws here don't permit passenger trains to be made of paper cups and
used
tissue like in germany. Everything is large and heavy.

Canada does run longer heavier trains than in the US though.

Ever been out of the States? Europeans don't use steam any more you
know. I think you will find the max laden truck weight is higher in
Europe. US trucks are so crap, 1950's engines. Crawl up hill, no brakes
down hill. Driven by suicidal Mex's.  Always tailgating, All chrome and
no safety gear, no spray suppression, no side bars, ineffective tail
bars, totally lethal to other drivers. Stay well away from them on
interstates. We have a couple rollover almost every day here in NJ.
Usually trash trucks from NY. JC

At least in North America the truck tractor's exhaust does not point
right at the motorist in the next lane. And the semitrailers are
almost always metal boxes, not cloth-covered frames.

Well, to be fair, the exhausts on an awful lot of European trucks also run
vertically up the back of the cab like Kenworths and Peterbilts. And most
trailers are also metal box construction. The curtain-siders (it's not
really 'cloth' - more of a *very* tough plasticised tarp) are used for the
most part for the special purpose of 'palletized deliveries' which is maybe
something that's not done in the U.S. ??

It's a system where a central company runs goods around the country for many
different clients on the same truck. Schedules are arranged such that as
goods are dropped off in towns, more goods are picked up to keep the truck
moving around as full as possible. It cuts down on fuel wastage and road
wastage by not having 'returning to depot' trucks running around empty, and
cuts down on costs for the companies that are having their goods shipped by
them not having to maintain their own truck fleet, or having to try to keep
their own trucks full.

The system only works if the goods to be shipped are palletised, and able to
be got at, no matter where their load point is on the trailer. So, they are
stacked on a curtain-sider, in two rows, running the length of the trailer.
That way, when the driver reaches a drop-off point, he can just pull back
the curtain on the appropriate side, to allow the fork truck to get in there
and remove the pallets. When he arrives at another collection, the
previously emptied space is again easily accessible to be reloaded. The
curtain material is very tough, and pretty much affords the same protection
to the load, as an aluminium box trailer. And if the trailer bed has been
properly loaded, there is no issue with the goods moving about.

Some companies that have their own trucks, still use curtain-siders, because
their goods are palletised anyway, and it can just be easier to load and
unload in some goods depots, if the fork truck can get to the sides of the
trailer, rather than the driver having to manually pallet-truck the goods to
the back, or handball boxes to the back as would be the case with a box
trailer. Just horses for courses, I guess.

OK, so the curtain sides are a way of managing LTLs (Less than
Truckload Lots). In North America the tendency would be to load up a
trailer with goods going to the same city, then unload for city
delivery at their local terminal, onto smaller trucks (even tractor-
semitrailer rigs, but perhaps with only one driving axle and one
trailer axle), from back to front in the order of the city driver's
route.

Sometimes side access to palletized loads is required. Flatbeds are
popular for dense freight: side panels can be removed and single
pallets unloaded. The entire load can be tarped in case of inclement
weather.

One unique application for flatbeds is grass sod delivery. A miniature
fork lift truck is mounted to the back of the flatbed. The truck
driver lowers it to the ground and unloads as many sod pallets as the
homeowner has ordered.

Another is for moving household goods. One semitrailer might hold the
contents of four or five households. If, for any reason, either the
new residence or the residents are unavailable when the movers arrive,
the contents are crated up at the mover's warehouse. Then a separate
flatbed carries these huge crates when both the new home and the
customers are ready.

 

[Tony Sivori]

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:06:14 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per Robert Macy:
"Engine Braking Prohibited", way out in the wilds, no one around.

Plus, the slope was so gentle? Maybe for the trucks?

They're *really* loud.... as in you don't want tb within even miles of
the noise - especially, I'd think, on wide-open country without a lot of
trees/hills to mitigate it.

They are only really loud when modified by idiot drivers who want them to
be really loud. Otherwise, they are only slightly louder than a well
muffled engine.

As far as the gentleness of the slope goes, I don't have any experience
with heavily-loaded trucks,

I have experience with heavy trucks. They still have drum brakes and you
would be surprised how quickly they can fade under certain conditions.
Obviously when fully loaded and down a long grade; but also fully loaded
and after only three or four sudden stops from highway speeds. These
sudden stops from highway speeds are common due to traffic lights when
driving on the outskirts of towns on non-interstate highways.

The jake brake saves wear and tear and prevents brake fade due to
heating. Properly used, it adds to public safety.

There is one major safety drawback of engine braking. Only the driven
axles (typically one axle) does the braking. So on any road that has poor
traction (wet, snow, blowing sand, and goodness forbid ice). So jake
brakes are known to cause jackknifing on slick roads.

but I'd guess that if any braking at all is
required, the first choice from a cost-savings perspective would be the
compression brake, since it doesn't wear out any consumables.

100% correct.

--
Tony Sivori

 

[Arfa Daily]

OK, so the curtain sides are a way of managing LTLs (Less than
Truckload Lots). In North America the tendency would be to load up a
trailer with goods going to the same city, then unload for city
delivery at their local terminal, onto smaller trucks (even tractor-
semitrailer rigs, but perhaps with only one driving axle and one
trailer axle), from back to front in the order of the city driver's
route.

Sometimes side access to palletized loads is required. Flatbeds are
popular for dense freight: side panels can be removed and single
pallets unloaded. The entire load can be tarped in case of inclement
weather.

One unique application for flatbeds is grass sod delivery. A miniature
fork lift truck is mounted to the back of the flatbed. The truck
driver lowers it to the ground and unloads as many sod pallets as the
homeowner has ordered.

Another is for moving household goods. One semitrailer might hold the
contents of four or five households. If, for any reason, either the
new residence or the residents are unavailable when the movers arrive,
the contents are crated up at the mover's warehouse. Then a separate
flatbed carries these huge crates when both the new home and the
customers are ready.

Yes, I think that it's probably a matter of physical geography. North
America is a vast country, but with comparatively 'compact' population
centres, and huge tracts of nothing between. That probably makes it better
to just run full trucks from one depot to another. In the UK, it is of
course much smaller, but with equally dense population centres. That makes
those centres much closer together, so makes the palletised distribution
model eminently practical. It was poularised by a woman called Hilary Devey
who now runs the biggest network in the UK if not Europe. She is a TV
personality also as one of the entrepeneurs on Dragons Den which has the
U.S. equivalent Shark Tank. It's a very practical system of distribution,
and has made her very rich.

Arfa