Public School's Computer Labs Underfunded

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <7ce4e226.0311111104.760c75b0@posting.google.com>,
hhc314@yahoo.com says...

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message news:<vqv9rs6pbvc246@corp.supernews.com>...
"Keith R. Williams" wrote ...
Agreed! ...and this from a company that told the rest to equip
every engineer with a laptop because it was *free*. I guess
Intel doesn't make displays. ;-)

They buy them just like everyone else. The increase in productivity
more than makes up for the extra cost. I was amazed at the freedom
of being able to do work in meetings...

What about the overall loss to the productivity of the meeting while
you're sitting there dorking with your laptop? I'm quite serious in
asking this.

I don't take my laptop to meetings unless I'm presenting. Having
survived many generations of meeting-paraphanelia, laptops are a
real boon to productivity. ...and no, I don't mean slick
PowerPoint presentations.

During my years at Raytheon and GRS, meetings were called for a
purpose, and it took one's full attention to remain abreast about what
was ongoing at the meeting if one was to make a constructive comment.
Of course today I suppose that that's now considered 'old school'.

You're telling me that *everyone* in all meetings had relevance
100% of the time? I don't do meetings unless I must, but I have
perhaps 10% of the floor-time. The rest of the time I'm
listening, and most of that has nothing to do with me. Being
productive during that time would be good, though I find clicking
to be rude.

in the cafeteria, on the plane,
etc. and not being tied to my cubicle.

Right, and I can only imagine the creative and productive ispirations
that transpire and demand immediate computer attention in such
environments!

How about carrying the laptop to the lab and working with the
same tools? Then there is the hotel room, home, and any number
of other situations where one wants the same environment. Indeed
my work laptop had close to $100K worth of single-system licensed
software in it. It sure was nice to take that on the road to the
vendors!

Office ergonimics is a bit beyond selling microprocessors (or even
computers) don't you think?

Of course it is...every professonal realizes that it borders on totall
bullshit rivaling that of even teleconferencing!

You're being silly! Teleconferencing is certainly more
productive than flying back and forth to Germany every week!
Sometimes teleconferencing is the only way to fly! ;-)

It's possibly a
reason why productivity and innovation has gradually come to a
complete stand-still in this country over the past 15 or so years.

Wow! Have you checked the productivity numbers recently?

This is because, in many reorganized and new firms, employees are more
focused on insignificant cosmetic details than on addressing the more
difficult real issues.

There is a lot of that, however real engineers do make use of
technology. ...in meetings even! What I find amazing is the
lack of video projectors in our conference rooms. THese are as
much as a productivity enhancement as transparencies were over
pens-n-flipcharts thirty years ago.

Perhaps you're really a Luddite?

--
Keith

 

[Baphomet]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3FB45059.1139@armory.com...

snip...snip...snip...

Let them learn Photoshop on a few of their weekends, teach them to
READ, WRITE and do MATH and ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY HANDS ON WITH
REAL TOOLS AND ROBOTIC INDUSTRIAL EQUIPMENT! THAT will do them a LOT
more good than learning fucking Photoshop so they can, duh: "get rich
doing web-graphics"!! We have too many unskilled drones in this culture
who only know how to USE high-end tools superficially without knowing
how anything works so they can actually innovate new technology! Teach
them how to build a house, wire a house, how to repair a car, fix their
VCR, automate their home, that will do them a lot more fucking good
than computers at school that will download porn twice as fast and never
get to!!!

Steve -

Sounds like your a proponent of Mao and his Cultural Revolution to wit -
send the elites back to the farms for humility training ;-) That being said,
I agree with much of what you have to say in there being a shocking scarcity
of real world knowledge of much of the population. In American, the average
person can't even change a fuse. However, I don't believe learning computers
and real world experience and or fundamentals are mutually exclusive.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Baphomet wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3FB45059.1139@armory.com...

snip...snip...snip...

Let them learn Photoshop on a few of their weekends, teach them to
READ, WRITE and do MATH and ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY HANDS ON WITH
REAL TOOLS AND ROBOTIC INDUSTRIAL EQUIPMENT! THAT will do them a LOT
more good than learning fucking Photoshop so they can, duh: "get rich
doing web-graphics"!! We have too many unskilled drones in this culture
who only know how to USE high-end tools superficially without knowing
how anything works so they can actually innovate new technology! Teach
them how to build a house, wire a house, how to repair a car, fix their
VCR, automate their home, that will do them a lot more fucking good
than computers at school that will download porn twice as fast and never
get to!!!

Steve -

Sounds like your a proponent of Mao and his Cultural Revolution
to wit - send the elites back to the farms for humility
training ;-)

------------
Nonesense, not at all, you have misunderstood. While "elites"
MIGHT benefit from that, I don't think it's important at all,
not in technology, NOR even in my own politics, which you might
be interested to know:
--
Merely requiring the rich stop stealing and divest themselves of
their ill-gotten gain to an egalitarian "earned via labor" level
of wealth on penalty of death for non-compoiance, is perfectly
sufficient to me.

I see NO need to "re-educate" them unless they resist divesting
their wealth, and then they might as well be enslaved for life
in prisoner work groups, or killed outright without delay.

There is no problem with true "elites", those who have developed
their genuinely useful talents, if they don't indulge in the
theft of other people's labor hours and other people's producticity.
--

Technologically, it's just that teaching people to "drive" cars
is not anywhere NEAR as important as teaching them to "fix" cars
or to "design" cars, or to innovate new engines and new means of
transport.

Likewise, being taught to use Photoshop is NOT a worthy pursuit
for higher education. Learning to WRITE such software IS, but
the mere use of a premanufactured software tool is NOT! It is
relatively juvenile and can be learned off websites or by practice
as needed.

That being said,
I agree with much of what you have to say in there being a shocking scarcity
of real world knowledge of much of the population. In American, the average
person can't even change a fuse. However, I don't believe learning computers
and real world experience and or fundamentals are mutually exclusive.
-----------------------------

No, but people who learn in fields in which we really need such talent
developed, can learn Photoshop on their own, and those less talented
can on their own, if that's what they need to do.

We need lots less meaningless advertisement trying to sell schlock in
this country, and far more people being trained NOT TO MERELY STRIVE
TO SELL SCHLOCK!! Vying to merely sell things, rather than make enough
high quality things so they DON'T EVEN HAVE to be sold to JUST a few,
selectively by their unearned wealth, is an unworthy task for humans.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Keith R. Williams]

In article <c8k8rvk8b0bd0mkh65kh2h58dbcf02mc3u@4ax.com>,
invalid@invalid.invalid says...

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:07:56 -0500, Keith R. Williams
krw@attglobal.net> wrote:

[snip]

Not ergonomics at all (though that is important too). It's all
about function. I have three monitors on my desk, two on my
laptop and one on my *IX box. My point is that Intel must not
believe what it says about productivity. Cobbler's shoes, and
all... BTDT.

I did a lot of stuff for Intel (USB and Firewire) before they decided,
about two years ago, that they could do without outside help.

There was a lot of that going around.

I was always amazed at the archaic systems they had for doing
simulations... their proprietary simulator drove me nuts... butt slow
and with an interface from hell.

You wouldn't remember the name of the simulator?

I often would drive home (~20 minutes), run the simulation on PSpice,
and then go back to Intel with the answer... often they would still be
trying to get their simulator to converge.

Reminds my of the simulators I used 30 years ago. We had a
program (script, actually) called "shuffle" that would literally
shuffle the input deck when the silly simulator wouldn't
converge. Sometimes we had to put a phantom component into the
circuit to give it a kick so it would converge. Mainframe time
was a scarce and wasting a CPU-hour on a design that refused to
converge wasn't very productive.

I haven't heard about convergence problems for years though.

--
Keith

 

[Ratch]

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3FB5855C.6949@armory.com...

Nonesense, not at all, you have misunderstood. While "elites"
MIGHT benefit from that, I don't think it's important at all,
not in technology, NOR even in my own politics, which you might
be interested to know:
--
Merely requiring the rich stop stealing and divest themselves of
their ill-gotten gain to an egalitarian "earned via labor" level
of wealth on penalty of death for non-compoiance, is perfectly
sufficient to me.

Gee whiz, RSW. Isn't there room in your world for people become super
rich through talent, skill, hard work and even luck? Take Henry Ford for
instance. As far as I know, he did not steal from his employees or
customers. He created a lot of well paying jobs for a lot of workers who
were glad to do what he wanted done. And his customers were glad to buy
what they made. And the government was happy to collect taxes on the whole
operation. In other words, he created wealth. What's wrong with that? You
want to execute HF for doing that? And in a previous post you said that you
think a person who deliberately runs a stop sign should be executed also.
Isn't there a middle ground for imposing punishments? I mean, what would
you do for some really horrific crimes like murder, espionage, rape, etc?

I see NO need to "re-educate" them unless they resist divesting
their wealth, and then they might as well be enslaved for life
in prisoner work groups, or killed outright without delay.

There is no problem with true "elites", those who have developed
their genuinely useful talents, if they don't indulge in the
theft of other people's labor hours and other people's producticity.
--

Technologically, it's just that teaching people to "drive" cars
is not anywhere NEAR as important as teaching them to "fix" cars
or to "design" cars, or to innovate new engines and new means of
transport.

Likewise, being taught to use Photoshop is NOT a worthy pursuit
for higher education. Learning to WRITE such software IS, but
the mere use of a premanufactured software tool is NOT! It is
relatively juvenile and can be learned off websites or by practice
as needed.


That being said,
I agree with much of what you have to say in there being a shocking
scarcity
of real world knowledge of much of the population. In American, the
average
person can't even change a fuse. However, I don't believe learning
computers
and real world experience and or fundamentals are mutually exclusive.
-----------------------------
No, but people who learn in fields in which we really need such talent
developed, can learn Photoshop on their own, and those less talented
can on their own, if that's what they need to do.

We need lots less meaningless advertisement trying to sell schlock in
this country, and far more people being trained NOT TO MERELY STRIVE
TO SELL SCHLOCK!! Vying to merely sell things, rather than make enough
high quality things so they DON'T EVEN HAVE to be sold to JUST a few,
selectively by their unearned wealth, is an unworthy task for humans.

Some day when dreams come true--Walt Disney. Ratch

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Ratch wrote:

"R. Steve Walz" <rstevew@armory.com> wrote in message
news:3FB5855C.6949@armory.com...
Nonesense, not at all, you have misunderstood. While "elites"
MIGHT benefit from that, I don't think it's important at all,
not in technology, NOR even in my own politics, which you might
be interested to know:
--
Merely requiring the rich stop stealing and divest themselves of
their ill-gotten gain to an egalitarian "earned via labor" level
of wealth on penalty of death for non-compoiance, is perfectly
sufficient to me.

Gee whiz, RSW. Isn't there room in your world for people become super
rich through talent, skill, hard work and even luck?
-------------------

Neither talent, skill, or hard work will produce wealth in the sense
the term is meant. One might prosper fairly but not become wealthy.
And Luck, when it turns someone's life to shit, is what we prevent
using modern technology both of science and of law, and is NOT
something to be permitted. And when one becomes wealthy or even
prospers due to luck, it is ALWAYS the result of someone else's
life turning to shit from the same unfair cause, and thus must be
prevented by the invention called "civilization". Civilization is
what we invented so that leopards didn't eat us one at a time, we
stuck together and shared the outcome, so that it never weighed too
hard on any one of us, it is what made us chief species on this rock.

Take Henry Ford for
instance. As far as I know, he did not steal from his employees or
customers.
-------------

Of course he did or he never could have become wealthy. It was simply
CALLED something else by this society because it was being controlled
by bandit-lords. He earned more per hour than his workers, that means
he was stealing, because inequitable wage per hour is unfair and
inhumane, as everyone knows in their heart of hearts. Our hours upon
the earth are of the same worth, because no one is fit to decide whose
hour of life is worth less than another's, no matter how much he would
wish it to be so for his own gain, or wish it not to be so for his own
gain.

He created a lot of well paying jobs for a lot of workers who
were glad to do what he wanted done.
-------------

"He" didn't, circumstances did. Someone would have if he did not, or
if no one person then the society would have done so, it was its time,
nothing more. He got to claim he did because he was a lucky rich thief,
and for no other reason.

And his customers were glad to buy
what they made.
-------------

What the workers made.

And the government was happy to collect taxes on the whole
operation. In other words, he created wealth.
-------------

No, the workers did. Wealth is created by labor, nothing else.
Gambling doesn't produce wealth, and that, in effect, was all
that he did, when he wasn't actually working assembling his
own autos. When he was actually working he deserved an equal
hourly wage, when he was not, he did NOT come to deserve a
single thing!

What's wrong with that?
----------------

Gambling is immoral and should be illegal.

You
want to execute HF for doing that?
---------------

No, but only because he's already dead, it would be redundant.

And in a previous post you said that you
think a person who deliberately runs a stop sign should be executed also.
----------------

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Isn't there a middle ground for imposing punishments?
----------------

There need not be any, all it does is motivate criminals to weigh
the chance of getting caught and then commit crimes on that basis.
If something is to be illegal make it so fucking illegal that NO
one will EVER DARE to even TRY to do it EVEN when NO ONE IS LOOKING!
Or else why should we fucking even bother at all???? The Law is NOT
A GAME! Life is NOT A GAME!

I mean, what would
you do for some really horrific crimes like murder, espionage,
rape, etc?
----------------------

Prolonged and medically sustained torture-death taking weeks of
shrieking, and done by automated machines. Televise it once in a
while, or present it for entertainment at sporting events.


[]

We need lots less meaningless advertisement trying to sell schlock in
this country, and far more people being trained NOT TO MERELY STRIVE
TO SELL SCHLOCK!! Vying to merely sell things, rather than make enough
high quality things so they DON'T EVEN HAVE to be sold to JUST a few,
selectively by their unearned wealth, is an unworthy task for humans.

Some day when dreams come true--Walt Disney. Ratch
-----------------------------

"You may say I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one.
I hope someday you'll join us,
and the world will live as one"
- John Lennon

You see, I believe that human life is perfectable by the sufficient
application of the right laws, and the elimination of criminals
and other social bullies by execution, and by enslavement by medical
and computer technology. I don't believe humans can be perfected
any other way, NOR THAT THEY EVEN NEED TO BE, so lets get one with
it and have a fair and decent society without even trying to perfect
individuals in and of themselves. There's no NEED to do so, nor to
even try. Law and Order is entirely sufficient to perfect human life
and bring about Heaven for us right here. So LET'S DO IT!!!

In the case of world terrorism, for example, simply threaten to
evaporate all Palestinians by nuclear and chemical weapons if there
are ANY more suicide bombings, and then give them all guns to kill
their own terrorists with, and if they cannot take power in an hour,
just nuke them or gas them all to death, no more screwing around!!

There are enough of them that if all given guns they can inventory
their own terrorists together and execute them all in an hour, or
all die trying to do so till our thermonuclear death sentence falls
from space.

No more apologies, no more mercy for the inhuman animals of this
world!! Let the word go out, behave or die horribly and soon!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Dennis Clark]

Phah!

"The world is controlled by a small group of men to which no one I know
belongs." Ain't life a bitch!

The majority of people are sheep, the few wolves out there get rich, the
few that are neither wolves nor sheep simply do well enough, and like dogs
on the porch, are content with what life passes their way. I think I fit
into the third catagory.

woof!
DLC
--
============================================================================
* Dennis Clark dlc@frii.com www.techtoystoday.com *
* "Programming and Customizing the OOPic Microcontroller" Mcgraw-Hill 2003 *
============================================================================

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Dennis Clark wrote:

Phah!

"The world is controlled by a small group of men to which no one I know
belongs." Ain't life a bitch!
--------------------

Don't bitch! Just Kill them.

Characterizing those who want to improve the world as
whiners is merely the tactic of the lying thieves we're
destined to eliminate.

The majority of people are sheep, the few wolves out there get rich, the
few that are neither wolves nor sheep simply do well enough, and like dogs
on the porch, are content with what life passes their way. I think I fit
into the third catagory.

woof!
DLC
------------------

All wolves fancy they're porch dogs, and they all lie.
Just Kill them. All of them.

Sheep are nice, everyone who thinks he isn't a sheep, is.
Everyone who thinks he's wolf is just deluded lunch.

Everyone who tells us he's really just a porch dog who's stealing
just because everyone else is stealing too, is just a fucking lying
wolf who should be shot through the head and left for the garbage.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

CWatters wrote:

There was a trial some years back in the UK that gave a few laptops to
schools to see what impact they would have. One school gave their laptop to
the most disruptive pupil so he could take it home etc. They fully expected
it to come back in bits. To their surprise it transformed the kid. He
quickly became the class "expert" that other kids turned to for advice. His
whole attitude changed as he no longer had to cause trouble to get
attention.

That effect is seen quite often, if you give the disruptive kid some
responisbility and they miracously change.

I used to give lectures an AIDS awareness to school classes, using a
slide projector (more than 10 years back now). I always asked the
biggest rufian in the last row to do the projection. Worked like a
charm, not only did they not disrupt, they actually listend!