Protel or ORcad?

[Jack// ani]

This question has been asked thousand times! So don't expect some
good out of it...

I believe it depends upon your application. OrCAD is good at simulation
whereas Protel is for PCB design.

 

[Don Prescott]

I know that there are bugs and issues in the current DXP2004.
However it seems that Altium is genuinely trying to address those
issues in a timely and professional manner right now. It hasn't
always been that way, can't guarantee it is not a fleeting cycle.

For as long as I have known Protel they have a poor reputation for
bugs and taking an eternity fixing them. Now we hear, yet again, that
Altium are trying hard to get it right. Why is this constantly the
case with Protel...? The product ain't bargain basement. It's what
$8K.....!

From what I have heard and experienced, DXP2004 is destined
to become a much more powerful system than OrCAD.

Well that isn't hard to figure. IMO OrCAD is a dying product. It's
not been healthy since Cadence bought the company. But since OrCAD
canned the US dev operation and shipped dev to India it's gone into
suspended animation. The Layout product - the old Masstech suite that
OrCAD bought way back when is prehistoric by modern standards.
Cadence don't even sell this stuff in the US - they have a VAR, EMA
doing it.....

Autorouting? The Situs (DXP2004) router still seems to be out
to lunch and I wouldn't ever expect anything much out of it if
you truly care about the integrity of your routing.

Again, the Protel router has been poor for a long time now. How come
they can't get it right?

.....But if you are a fulltime designer or in a small company looking
for
your long term solution I would suggest DXP2004 is my future roadmap.

I would not recommend either of these products. Altium have recorded
consistent losses over the last few years and it's not difficult to
see part of the reason why. OrCAD is on the slippery slope. No doubt
about it. The Schematics and Simulation are still OK, but the layout
is awful and there's little or no dev on any of it.

If you want to know what I use and recommend it's Pulsonix. A much
better product and lower priced than either of these.

Prescott

 

[Don Prescott]

"Brad Velander" <SpamThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<vNl9e.1077588$8l.687670@pd7tw1no>...

Don,
And Pulsonix is what, $6995 USD (straight from their web
pages) for the equal package? Wow, big difference when you are
investing more in the user development than on the software. So
Pulsonix isn't bargain basement either and Don should be more
honest about it instead of trying to make it seem Pulsonix is
incredibly cheaper at an equal product level.
--

The model I use is 2000 Pin with Autoroute. On the Pulsonix website
it's currently $4495. I've found the product to be very stable with an
excellent router. Brad, my simple question is this: how can these
guys at Pulsonix get it right consistently and Altium can't? All we
ever hear about Protel is "yep, still buggy, but they're trying to get
it right..."

Prescott

 

[Don Prescott]

As I said, compare equal product levels. Do you want to
compare 100 pin limit packages as well?

Even if you take the unlimited pins model it's still lower priced than
Protel.

If Pulsonix get it right consistently, where is their user
base? I have never met one person that uses it. Never heard of
any professionals even considering it, just hobbyists and one man
shops through the newsgroups. Actually , just you and a handful
of others, some suspect of actually being Pulsonix employees.

Pulsonix is quite a new product. It was only released a few years
ago, so it's not surprising you haven't encountered many users.
Protel started what, 25 years ago....? Pulsonix have quite a large
user-base in the US so I believe. I've spoke to several other users.
Nothing like the user-base of Protel I agree. I may be wrong but I
haven't heard of any hobbyists shelling $7K. They are usually use the
free versions or open source stuff.

As for the router, never seen one yet that works
satisfactorily for less than $10K - $20K USD ( I remember when
that was $30K or greater not all too long ago). At that you also
have to take a course (about $5K US) just to really learn how to
operate it. But it's the same sad story with all seran wrapped
routers, as I said you just can't expect much out of any of them.

You're talking past-tense here Brad. This sounds like SPECCTRA speak.
The Pulsonix router might not be quite on par with SPECCTRA but it's
pretty close.

I never said that Altium always gets it right, I gave them an
honest assessment that right now they seem to be working
diligently to cleanup DXP. It hasn't always been the case as I
suggested.
--

There's no justifiable excuse why a multi million dollar operation
can't release reliable software, and a usable router. Not guaranteed
bug-free of course 'cos nobody can do that. As can be seen by other
messages, the basic rule of thumb: "don't touch any Protel release
until service pack 5".......! How can you defend that..?

Prescott

 

[Don Prescott]

"Brad Velander" <SpamThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<8a4ae.1103698$8l.84305@pd7tw1no>...

Don,
Do you always make mindless arguments and arguments on points
that coincide with peoples comments?

25 years? Yeah right, were you in diapers then Don? If you
weren't then you would know that there was no CAD 25 years ago
unless you had mainframes or PDPs handy. Protel started approx.
1990 after the split between Nick M. and the Accel people. So
approx. 15 years, not 25 years.

Yes the unlimited version is lower priced than Protel, I told you
that as well. So you can save $1000 on a $8K package while you
spend $10K or more in training and support and setup costs to
adapt and start using the package reasonably well.

You critique me for mentioning Spectra as past-tense but
almost every comment you make about Protel is past tense as well.
Find anyone making comments about DXP and 5 service packs? DXP
had 2 SPs, DXP2004 is currently on SP2 with SP3 imminent. There
has been a wide acceptance of DXP from the start, very few users
went back to P99SE and that was mostly an initial GUI/familiarity
protest because they altered so many basic operations in the
program.

Find the comments that are not just past-tense, then maybe we
can talk. That is if the complaint is not just mindless cattle
fodder because the user figured it should do things or should do
them the same way as the package that they were used to using.

Then again, if you want to discuss the subject of the thread
feel free. Otherwise I don't know where Pulsonix was invited into
the conversation before you rudely pushed your way in like a used
car salesman with off topic comparisons and exaggerations of
price savings for lesser products that very well may not have met
the original request's needs.

"mindless cattle fodder"...."pushed your way in like a used car
salesman"
Tsk, Tsk, Brad! Do I detect you're getting a triffle pissed...

Let's get something straight - Pulsonix is NOT a lesser product than
Protel. It came in merely 'cos I said I wouldn't recommend either
OrCAD or Protel and I mentioned what I use and recommend.

But let's face it - you're a fully paid-up Protel groupie. I can see
that. Hearing something adverse about your pet product obviously
offends your sensibilites. Calm down!

Prescott

 

[Don Prescott]

Oh Brad how could you.... the 'f' word! You have been a very bad boy!
Have you been missing your anger management classes.....?

From Simon peacock on about Protel DXP: "I am also on the DXP beta
list.. There is about a service pack a month there."….."And yes DXP is
buggy.." "I don't see my current company upgrading to DXP until there
are a few more service packs."

So Brad old pal, how many service packs would you want before you
would start using DXP...? Maybe 4 is about the right number....
Seemingly "5" sends to into a fit.... Now calm down Brad, it's only a
number.... breath deeply.....

I've never been called a little troll before...... What is a troll..?

Prescott

 

[Don Prescott]

So, I'm adept at using quotes or partial quotes out of context am
I.....Mmmmm
Well lets's look at what you just said:

Now Don, how did you selectively miss Simon's comment from
just the other day? "Some of the bugs are even documentation
issues... on that side they have fallen well
short of 2.8 & 98. But for all its faults.. it is quite usable."

"But for all it's faults it's quite usable......."! note,completely
in context

I had a look at the latest price for Protel....$9995

So Brad, you recommend that folks shell $9995 for a product that's
only "quite useable" do you. Can we take this to mean: "yep it's
buggy and the router is pretty useless, but heck it's only ten
thousand dollars...."!!!!

I spent a whole lot less than that and I have a product that's totally
useable....

And Brad, notice how I defeat your arguments, in context, without
resorting to personal insults...

Prescott

 

[Don Prescott]

This is so over, your just a fucking little wienie....

Oh Brad, first I was a "troll" now I'm a "f**ing little weanie".
Brad have you be overdosing on viagra yet again...? I'd answer your
comments but I'm seriously worried about your blood pressure.

Prescott