protecting circuit design

[Kevin Aylward]

Active8 wrote:

In article <39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>,
cyclesclub1@yahoo.com says...
I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

as i told the last guy that asked this:

the only protection you have is to be the best at what you're doing.
i'll add to that - and hope to get the bear's share of the market.

being first to market is a bonus if you can gain satisfied customers
and momentum.

Actually, no, its not a bonus. "22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" - Jack
Trout. *The* most important thing to product success is to be first. Its
absolutely key.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Joey]

cyclesclub1@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in message news:<39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>...

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

Patents are expensive and the possibility of your circuit being close
enough to someone elses patent to infringe on their rights, is pretty
good. Also if you copyright it, it will be available for all to see
and copy, if it is that easy to create. Most guitar pedals are of such
simple design that they are easy to copy, and the manufacturers charge
big bucks for them as they are the only devices that produce their
unique signature sound. Their solution however is quite simple. They
merely cover their completed circuit in nontransparent resin. The
resin is usually so hard that you would have to pulverize the board to
gain any access to the design and when you open the box all you see is
a glob of solid plastic in the middle of the circuit board.

 

[Frank Pickens]

I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Rob wrote:

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

 

[Pat Ford]

It bugs me when people just jump inti a thread without having read and
comprehending the group prior input. Doe this miff anyone elsae
8*)
Pat

"Frank Pickens" <frankpickens@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3F6AA06C.E05E893A@verizon.net...

I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Rob wrote:

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

 

[Frank Pickens]

It miffs me when people hit 'send' without reading what they have typed.
Frank

Pat Ford wrote:

It bugs me when people just jump inti a thread without having read and
comprehending the group prior input. Doe this miff anyone elsae
8*)
Pat

"Frank Pickens" <frankpickens@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3F6AA06C.E05E893A@verizon.net...
I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Rob wrote:

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:26:54 -0400, the renowned "Pat Ford"
<pat.ford@nrc.ca> wrote:

It bugs me when people just jump inti a thread without having read and
comprehending the group prior input. Doe this miff anyone elsae
8*)
Pat

We're all far too busy being duplicitous.

"Frank Pickens" <frankpickens@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3F6AA06C.E05E893A@verizon.net...
I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Rob wrote:

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Frank Pickens]

Thanks Spehro, I needed that.
Frank

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:26:54 -0400, the renowned "Pat Ford"
pat.ford@nrc.ca> wrote:

It bugs me when people just jump inti a thread without having read and
comprehending the group prior input. Doe this miff anyone elsae
8*)
Pat

We're all far too busy being duplicitous.

"Frank Pickens" <frankpickens@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3F6AA06C.E05E893A@verizon.net...
I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Rob wrote:

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Frank Pickens wrote:

I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Some people read newsgroups off-line, so they may not see other
messages similar to theirs, because they were not there to download at
the time. Sometimes I download new messages on a newsgroup, and the
reply don't get sent till the next day.

--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Frank Pickens]

Thanks for the information. I didn't know that this was a possibility.
Frank


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Frank Pickens wrote:

I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Some people read newsgroups off-line, so they may not see other
messages similar to theirs, because they were not there to download at
the time. Sometimes I download new messages on a newsgroup, and the
reply don't get sent till the next day.

--

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Michael Hofmann]

Frank Pickens wrote:

I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.

News is not email. News is not a real-time medium.
Some people consider it extremely rude to top post.

Michael


--
SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical reasons* why it is
necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then.

Promoting Penguin Power. Web home: http://www.qsl.net/dc1rn

 

[Active8]

In article <exFab.723$f65.386771@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>,
kevin@anasoft.co.uk says...

Active8 wrote:
In article <39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>,
cyclesclub1@yahoo.com says...
I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

as i told the last guy that asked this:

the only protection you have is to be the best at what you're doing.
i'll add to that - and hope to get the bear's share of the market.

being first to market is a bonus if you can gain satisfied customers
and momentum.

Actually, no, its not a bonus. "22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" - Jack
Trout. *The* most important thing to product success is to be first. Its
absolutely key.

thanks. i'll remember that.

mike

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Robert Baer]

Kevin Aylward wrote:

Active8 wrote:
In article <39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>,
cyclesclub1@yahoo.com says...
I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

as i told the last guy that asked this:

the only protection you have is to be the best at what you're doing.
i'll add to that - and hope to get the bear's share of the market.

being first to market is a bonus if you can gain satisfied customers
and momentum.

Actually, no, its not a bonus. "22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" - Jack
Trout. *The* most important thing to product success is to be first. Its
absolutely key.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

For the latest copy of Abo SF...
Use bobbaer@earthlink.net when e-mailing me your address.

 

[Mantra]

cyclesclub1@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in message news:<39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>...

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

Expanding on the many "you can't" answers: keep in mind that not all
good ideas are necessarily good businesses to be in. If you can't
protect it (and I completely agree with the other posters that if it's
only a PCB, you can't) it's a decidedly bad business to start *unless*
you margins (profits) are so low that nobody cares to notice your
business - which probably isn't your intent.

 

[mike]

Frank Pickens wrote:

I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of

duplicity

Is that the word you really wanted to use?? Or maybe a Freudian slip?
Or maybe that's the case????

mike

in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Rob wrote:


I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

--
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
laptops and parts Test Equipment
4in/400Wout ham linear amp.
Honda CB-125S
400cc Dirt Bike 2003 miles $550
Police Scanner, Color LCD overhead projector
Tek 2465 $800, ham radio, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

 

[Robert Baer]

Mantra wrote:

cyclesclub1@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in message news:<39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>...
I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

Expanding on the many "you can't" answers: keep in mind that not all
good ideas are necessarily good businesses to be in. If you can't
protect it (and I completely agree with the other posters that if it's
only a PCB, you can't) it's a decidedly bad business to start *unless*
you margins (profits) are so low that nobody cares to notice your
business - which probably isn't your intent.

Well, there are ways to have some protection:
1) Copyright PCB patterns used, mechanical constructs, etc as works of
art.
2) If possible, patent some unique aspect or aspects of the device.
3) Make confusing PCB layouts: by hiding vias under parts; adding what
looks like a via but is not; putting vias in that would short and
destroy some critical part - and drilling out the copper in the hole,
filling the hole with an insulator, then flowing solder over the pad
hole to make it *look* good; adding extra circuitry that does no useful
function - but looks like it might be needed for some exotic reason; add
traces that go all over hell and gone and wind up where the connection
can do no harm, etc.
4) Have enough profit that you can both create a "war chest" to live off
of, as well as undercut the loball copycats (if any) so much that *they*
are driven out of business (and you either still make some profit or the
war chest is used to draw from).

 

[Mjolinor]

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

I am a relative newcomer to this group but I have to wonder whether
people who respond to a post even bother to read the previous responses
before putting their 2 cents in. I see an awful lot of duplicity in
responses. Also I think it is extremly rude of the original poster not
to acknowledge the responses to their post.
Just my thoughts at the moment.
Frank

Rob wrote:

While we are on hates, "Top posting"

Duplicate answers actually are one of the useful things in some respects
because there is a good chance that the answer is correct if people
unrelated to each other suggest the same or similar solutions

I never know whether to acknowledge posts following a request, I suppose
it's courtesy to do so but serves no real purpose. Surely if a solution is
not adequate then the poster will re-phrase and re-ask the question.

If you respond to a proposed solution how many times do you do it, do you
respond to the solutions you have decided to ignore?

Courtesy and humour do not travel well in newsgroups, I have posted what I
considered to be humourous comments only to cringe when I read them back
(normally after posting when it is too late), why do they read OK before you
hit the send button? I personally think it is better to stick to asking and
answering, that way people don't get upset through misunderstanding. but
each to his own and without the occasional slagging match or humourous
comment I suppose it could get boring.

 

[Zak]

Mantra wrote:

If you can't
protect it (and I completely agree with the other posters that if it's
only a PCB, you can't) it's a decidedly bad business to start *unless*
you margins (profits) are so low that nobody cares to notice your
business - which probably isn't your intent.

Many potential copycats won't notice your business or think it is not
important. I guess for example Boeing could very well copy a guitar
effect pedal if they wanted. But they don't have the distribution
channels, and for them doing something probably has a lot of fixed overhead.

Now take a look at your product. Why would people buy it? Take care of
those aspects.

Is it some special feature or effect quality? Then hide it under epoxy,
grind markings of chips, mount ICs mirror-wise, whatever you can think of.

But it may be very well that your product is so great because it has
been used by band such-and-so. That is a feature that is not so easy to
copy: essentially the purchaser buys peace of mind - he know's what he's
getting. And if your price is not far out of the realm of the
competition (may not be hard - you were there first and will have better
economy of scale) they will buy yours.

Now I'd worry if my invention was a brilliant one that is easy to copy,
and there is a competitor with good name and good distribution channels,
and good economies of scale in manufacturing. That one could copy your
features. In which cas eyou can try to create either situation above. Or
patent - which is useless against a much larger opponent, I'd think.


Thomas

 

[Gary Tait]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:02:07 GMT, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@earthlink.net> wrote:

Mantra wrote:

cyclesclub1@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in message news:<39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>...
I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

Expanding on the many "you can't" answers: keep in mind that not all
good ideas are necessarily good businesses to be in. If you can't
protect it (and I completely agree with the other posters that if it's
only a PCB, you can't) it's a decidedly bad business to start *unless*
you margins (profits) are so low that nobody cares to notice your
business - which probably isn't your intent.

Well, there are ways to have some protection:
1) Copyright PCB patterns used, mechanical constructs, etc as works of
art.

Doesn't prevent one from using the exact or similar schematic
with different art.

2) If possible, patent some unique aspect or aspects of the device.

Possible, but as stated, patent means mostly nothing.

3) Make confusing PCB layouts: by hiding vias under parts; adding what
looks like a via but is not; putting vias in that would short and
destroy some critical part - and drilling out the copper in the hole,
filling the hole with an insulator, then flowing solder over the pad
hole to make it *look* good; adding extra circuitry that does no useful
function - but looks like it might be needed for some exotic reason; add
traces that go all over hell and gone and wind up where the connection
can do no harm, etc.

Sounds good

4) Have enough profit that you can both create a "war chest" to live off
of, as well as undercut the loball copycats (if any) so much that *they*
are driven out of business (and you either still make some profit or the
war chest is used to draw from).

Oc combinations of them.

 

[Harry Conover]

cyclesclub1@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in message news:<39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>...

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!

There is no total solution, just as others have posted.

When you are manufacturing a specialty product targeted at a very
specialized market, more often than not your customers are not going
to be interested in pirating your product, simply because they
hopefully have larger fish to fry.

The situation is very different if you're selling an electronic
product to a maket largely consisting of electronics manufacturers. In
this case, lawyers are your best bet.

Harry C.

 

[mike]

Robert Baer wrote:

Kevin Aylward wrote:

Active8 wrote:

In article <39dfb721.0309172310.30583b81@posting.google.com>,
cyclesclub1@yahoo.com says...

I have designed a simple circuitry to resolve a problem. I want to
mass produce it as a product for sale. However, I do not want to
produce it on an unprotected PCB board for fear of being copied. I
would like to hear your opinion about what might be the solution.
Thanks!


as i told the last guy that asked this:

the only protection you have is to be the best at what you're doing.
i'll add to that - and hope to get the bear's share of the market.

being first to market is a bonus if you can gain satisfied customers
and momentum.

Actually, no, its not a bonus. "22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" - Jack
Trout. *The* most important thing to product success is to be first. Its
absolutely key.

Be careful not to infer that being first guarantees success.
Ask Digital Convergence how they did with their CueCat.
And Circuit City with a new DVD format.

First is good in at least two cases:
1) Get in, Skim the early adopters, Get out!
Someone made a fortune on pet rocks, IF they got out.
Not a good idea to spend a lot of money on infrastructure
for a non-sustainable product.

2) You have a sustainable product roadmap, marketing smarts,
manufacturing smarts, oh a market, and friends with deep pockets. Be
first, stay best, get BIG quick.

For the other 99.999% of us without deep pockets, a disribution channel,
a sustainable product roadmap, or the sense
to get out while it's hot, being first is over rated.
mike

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.


For the latest copy of Abo SF...
Use bobbaer@earthlink.net when e-mailing me your address.

--
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
laptops and parts Test Equipment
4in/400Wout ham linear amp.
Honda CB-125S
400cc Dirt Bike 2003 miles $550
Police Scanner, Color LCD overhead projector
Tek 2465 $800, ham radio, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/