printed circuit boards

Jim Thompson wrote:
Is Eagle easy to use?
Click to expand...
Yes, sorta. But potent for the price.

The user interface is not quite intuitive, but once in "their" frame of
mind it makes sense. Flexible, extensible, and the free version is
full-featured with 2-layer support (licensed: 16 layers).

User discussions provide some good insight on what it can/can't do:
news://news.cadsoft.de/eagle.userchat.eng
news://news.cadsoft.de/eagle.support.eng

Probably the biggest shortcoming with the free version is the missing
manual (not even in PDF), which comes only with licensed copies. You've
got to get by with other docs, tutorials, and an advice website.

Non-commercial version: $125; full license: $1200 (if you want the
auto-router)
 
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:16:50 -0700, Chris Carlen
<crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote:

Jeff Zimmerman wrote:
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.

Hi Jeff:

I have found that the prices for prototype PCB fabrication by commercial
PCB houses is much cheaper than the time that I would have to spend to
make them myself, even on a student's budget.

A student can get for $33 at www.4pcb.com, a double sided, solder
masked, and silkscreened PCB.

Get Eagle which can do up to 100mm x 160mm for free, and your set.

[snip]
Click to expand...

Anyone have comments about ExpressPCB?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Jim Thompson" <Jim-T@golana-will-get-you.com> wrote in message
news:2phplv8ofkpclu5m02kpd11e07bgf132tq@4ax.com...
Anyone have comments about ExpressPCB?
Click to expand...
(Okay, I'll cross-post this response. My other response, re Eagle, was
posted only to sci.electronics.design.)

I've used this service several times over the last two years. They do very
high quality work at reasonable prices; their minimum price ($62 including
express shipping for three identical 2.3"x3.5" boards, double-sided) is the
best I've found, and their prices for small quantity production (50 boards),
with solder mask and silk screen, are pretty good too. The quality of the
finished boards is as good as anything I've seen in any commercial product.
At this price and turnaround speed, they can do boards more cheaply and
quickly than I can do them myself, given that whenever I do it I have to buy
new supplies and remember how to use them.

Their layout software is simple and somewhat limited but very easy and
intuitive. Their schematic capture is not great, and the integration
between the two is dubious. (Why, why, why

The biggest limitation is that they don't export Gerber and they don't
usefully import netlists. So you're stuck using their software and their
production service; there's no way to scale. You can't even print out
camera-ready art to etch it yourself. Also, their layout software is not
very smart about things like filled polygons, curves, and so forth.

Bottom line: they're great for very simple boards; but they don't scale well
beyond that.

-walter
 
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:19:08 -0700, "Walter Harley"
<walterh@cafewalter.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <Jim-T@golana-will-get-you.com> wrote in message
news:2phplv8ofkpclu5m02kpd11e07bgf132tq@4ax.com...
Anyone have comments about ExpressPCB?

[snip]
Their layout software is simple and somewhat limited but very easy and
intuitive. Their schematic capture is not great, and the integration
between the two is dubious. (Why, why, why

The biggest limitation is that they don't export Gerber and they don't
usefully import netlists. So you're stuck using their software and their
production service; there's no way to scale. You can't even print out
camera-ready art to etch it yourself. Also, their layout software is not
very smart about things like filled polygons, curves, and so forth.

Bottom line: they're great for very simple boards; but they don't scale well
beyond that.

-walter
Click to expand...
I've been toying around trying to decide whether to PnP Blue something
and try it myself, or just order from ExpressPCB. I'm developing a
product idea which, in the end, if it works, I'd just have a
commercial house lay it out. Right now I'm planning on building the
system up in small pieces while I sort out the circuit details.

As for printing out ExpressPCB, it *can* be done. I took
"unprintable" as a challenge and found a way to do it...

Here's the best way I've found so far:

(1) Print desired layer to a file using a *color* Postscript printer
driver (I installed a Tektronix 780 Graphic printer in Win2K).
(2) Bring into Paint Shop pro (at 300/inch)
(3) "Posterize" the image
(4) Using "Magic Wand" tool select one piece of trace
(5) Selections > Modify > Select similar. This will select all
instances of that color on the image.
(6) You can then copy and past that selected content.
(6a) You may need to "Resize" the image to make it actual size.
(7) Save as desired file-type.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Walter Harley wrote:
"Jim Thompson" <Jim-T@golana-will-get-you.com> wrote in message
news:2phplv8ofkpclu5m02kpd11e07bgf132tq@4ax.com...

Anyone have comments about ExpressPCB?
Click to expand...
[edit]
The biggest limitation is that they don't export Gerber and they don't
usefully import netlists. So you're stuck using their software and their
production service; there's no way to scale. You can't even print out
camera-ready art to etch it yourself. Also, their layout software is not
very smart about things like filled polygons, curves, and so forth.

Bottom line: they're great for very simple boards; but they don't scale well
beyond that.

-walter
Click to expand...

Those are some of the reasons I went with Eagle. I'm sure someone of
Jim's stature could afford it. It would be wise not to get invested
(time and $$$) in a dead end, capabilities-wise.

The new version of Eagle will do blind and buried vias, offset vias
(keyholes), and curves, as well as major enhancements to the library
management. There are lots of parameters for design rule checking, and
it's taken me a couple years to finally figure out all the details and
options it provides about polygons and supply layers. It is becoming
quite a powerful program.


Good day!


--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarle@sandia.gov -- NOTE: Remove "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
 
jrz126@psu.edu (Jeff Zimmerman) wrote in message news:<cb2e8c1d.0309060517.1757ed8c@posting.google.com>...
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
Hi Jeff,

If cost is your main concern and you are looking to build single
projects or prove-up models (initial stage prototype to deside if cost
of full prototype is worth it). A prototype board like at
www.onepasinc.com is your quickest, easiest solution.

Doc
 
"Chris Carlen" <crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote in message
news:bjisqn$t5h$1@sass2141.sandia.gov...
Those are some of the reasons I went with Eagle. I'm sure someone of
Jim's stature could afford it. It would be wise not to get invested
(time and $$$) in a dead end, capabilities-wise.
Click to expand...
Well, PCBExpress is free and very, very fast to learn, so not much of an
investment. But it is quite limiting.
 
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:34:58 -0700, "Walter Harley"
<walterh@cafewalter.com> wrote:

"Chris Carlen" <crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote in message
news:bjisqn$t5h$1@sass2141.sandia.gov...
Those are some of the reasons I went with Eagle. I'm sure someone of
Jim's stature could afford it. It would be wise not to get invested
(time and $$$) in a dead end, capabilities-wise.

Well, PCBExpress is free and very, very fast to learn, so not much of an
investment. But it is quite limiting.
Click to expand...
Since I am just tinkering with a wild-assed idea I'm going to go with
ExpressPCB. (I had no problem getting it going in a blink.) If the
idea shows promise I'll hire one of you professional PCB guys to
coalesce what I expect to be several ExpressPCB boards into a single
card.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson wrote...
Since I am just tinkering with a wild-assed idea I'm going to go with
ExpressPCB. (I had no problem getting it going in a blink.) If the
idea shows promise I'll hire one of you professional PCB guys to
coalesce what I expect to be several ExpressPCB boards into a single
card.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
Jim, one new thing I've noticed is that four and six-layer PCBs are
finally getting the same low prototype prices that two-layer boards
have long enjoyed [but only from some firms]. Just something to keep
in mind during your layout process.

Thanks,
- Win
 
"Jim Thompson" <Jim-T@golana-will-get-you.com> schreef in bericht
news:f4mplv86vieaj0popgs9gn2o5atu6va0nu@4ax.com...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:19:08 -0700, "Walter Harley"
walterh@cafewalter.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <Jim-T@golana-will-get-you.com> wrote in message
news:2phplv8ofkpclu5m02kpd11e07bgf132tq@4ax.com...
Anyone have comments about ExpressPCB?

[snip]
Their layout software is simple and somewhat limited but very easy and
intuitive. Their schematic capture is not great, and the integration
between the two is dubious. (Why, why, why

The biggest limitation is that they don't export Gerber and they don't
usefully import netlists. So you're stuck using their software and their
production service; there's no way to scale. You can't even print out
camera-ready art to etch it yourself. Also, their layout software is not
very smart about things like filled polygons, curves, and so forth.

Bottom line: they're great for very simple boards; but they don't scale
well
beyond that.

-walter


I've been toying around trying to decide whether to PnP Blue something
and try it myself, or just order from ExpressPCB. I'm developing a
product idea which, in the end, if it works, I'd just have a
commercial house lay it out. Right now I'm planning on building the
system up in small pieces while I sort out the circuit details.

As for printing out ExpressPCB, it *can* be done. I took
"unprintable" as a challenge and found a way to do it...

Here's the best way I've found so far:

(1) Print desired layer to a file using a *color* Postscript printer
driver (I installed a Tektronix 780 Graphic printer in Win2K).
(2) Bring into Paint Shop pro (at 300/inch)
(3) "Posterize" the image
(4) Using "Magic Wand" tool select one piece of trace
(5) Selections > Modify > Select similar. This will select all
instances of that color on the image.
(6) You can then copy and past that selected content.
(6a) You may need to "Resize" the image to make it actual size.
(7) Save as desired file-type.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Click to expand...

James, and other Express users,


I ever checked it out for myself:

- Installed a HP LaserJet 5P/5MP Postscript printer and set it to print to a
file
- Printed the required layer using this printer to file test.ps
- Opened test.ps using a plain text editor (notepad will do for small files)
- Removed all but one of the dots of the grid. They look like
0 0 scol L ; : N 1222 3130 7 7 rp C
0 0 scol L ; : N 1282 3130 7 7 rp C
0 0 scol L ; : N 1342 3130 7 7 rp C
- Closed the file and reopened it by PSP at 600dpi
- Removed the grey background by color replacer
- Saved test.***
This way I got a clean artwork image ready to be printed by a 600dpi
laserprinter.

I still have no intention to use it this way but at the time it looked like
the challenge it
wasn't.

pieter







---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 1-9-2003
 
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:13:12 GMT, "petrus bitbyter"
<p.kralt@hccnet.nl> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <Jim-T@golana-will-get-you.com> schreef in bericht
news:f4mplv86vieaj0popgs9gn2o5atu6va0nu@4ax.com...
[snip]
As for printing out ExpressPCB, it *can* be done. I took
"unprintable" as a challenge and found a way to do it...

Here's the best way I've found so far:

(1) Print desired layer to a file using a *color* Postscript printer
driver (I installed a Tektronix 780 Graphic printer in Win2K).
(2) Bring into Paint Shop pro (at 300/inch)
(3) "Posterize" the image
(4) Using "Magic Wand" tool select one piece of trace
(5) Selections > Modify > Select similar. This will select all
instances of that color on the image.
(6) You can then copy and past that selected content.
(6a) You may need to "Resize" the image to make it actual size.
(7) Save as desired file-type.

...Jim Thompson

James, and other Express users,


I ever checked it out for myself:

- Installed a HP LaserJet 5P/5MP Postscript printer and set it to print to a
file
- Printed the required layer using this printer to file test.ps
- Opened test.ps using a plain text editor (notepad will do for small files)
- Removed all but one of the dots of the grid. They look like
0 0 scol L ; : N 1222 3130 7 7 rp C
0 0 scol L ; : N 1282 3130 7 7 rp C
0 0 scol L ; : N 1342 3130 7 7 rp C
- Closed the file and reopened it by PSP at 600dpi
- Removed the grey background by color replacer
- Saved test.***
This way I got a clean artwork image ready to be printed by a 600dpi
laserprinter.

I still have no intention to use it this way but at the time it looked like
the challenge it
wasn't.

pieter
Click to expand...
"Posterize" (2-levels) is easier to do than "color replacer".

I notice something else as well: Reduce hole sizes to give an
accurate "center" for your drill.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Sent my first order to ExpressPCB Friday afternoon. Boards arived Airborne
Tuesday morning. Amazed at the speed and the quality. I will use them again
although they ar a bit pricey.
Frank



Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:16:50 -0700, Chris Carlen
crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote:

Jeff Zimmerman wrote:
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.

Hi Jeff:

I have found that the prices for prototype PCB fabrication by commercial
PCB houses is much cheaper than the time that I would have to spend to
make them myself, even on a student's budget.

A student can get for $33 at www.4pcb.com, a double sided, solder
masked, and silkscreened PCB.

Get Eagle which can do up to 100mm x 160mm for free, and your set.

[snip]

Anyone have comments about ExpressPCB?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Click to expand...
 
Oliver Dain <odain2@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<YGm6b.1291$Yt.270@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
Jeff Zimmerman wrote:

I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much
out there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a
poor college student so I can't spend too much.

For the lazy, is there is a service to which one can submit the output
from software like Eagle and get a board made and mailed for a
reasonable price?
Click to expand...

This summer I have worked on my first wholly owned electronics design
project.

I used CadSoft's EAGLE, and I like it a lot.

I shipped EAGLE files off to Olimex according to the instructions on
their web site. They emailed a .pdf of a fax form, and required that
I sign it and FAX it back.
Money quietly moved from my credit card to them, and boards quietly
arrived at my house. It was professional. It was satisfying. I
never had that post purchase let-down, though there was a missing week
spent in customs. Now I am am an international player. :)

Now, these are my first boards and my judgement is biased, but they
were beautiful. They're still beautiful. I think the process of
learning EAGLE and making the board was far preferable to wiring the
circuit up on a breadboard. And even though, or perhaps because, I am
a chemist, I wouldn't even consider etching at home.

Also, I bought a board from someone who published in Nuts & Volts a
couple of years ago. Power and ground were shorted on that board. I
didn't really care, because I just wanted to see and hold a board in
preparation of my project, but the fact that they said their board
house was crummy, and Olimex worked perfectly for me, has made me a
little cautious about looking for references -- don't go just with
price. Drop a prospective supplier an email, and if you're not really
happy with the tone and response time, remember that it doesn't get
better after they have your money.

One advice: occasionally drop in a pair of vias 0.100" apart, so you
can cut traces, or solder in wire-wrap wire, or touch a probe tip. It
IS a prototype, right? Just keep ease of debugging and modification
in mind.

These boards have served their purpose well. I have programmed the
PIC, made some decisions about the circuit. Now that the circuit is
connected to power, programmer, daughter boards, and comm lines, I can
see how some connectors should really go on another side of the board.
Stuff that would have escaped me if I had breadboarded it. And it is
tidy. I would have had a mountain of wire on the breadboard.

One of the regulars here pointed out to me that my design wasn't
finished until I had manufacturer's part numbers. I was grumpy, but
he was right. A Mouser web page was mighty handy.

....
I have now modified the board, since all of the worrisom aspects of
the software have been proven on the Rev. 1 prototype. I sent the
Rev. 2 prototype boards back to Olimex yesterday. There are
differences in hardware, and will need changes in software, but the
confidence level at this point is very high and probably justified.

I have been into the libraries, and made custom parts there. For
example, I have made a 'PIC-Hobby' pad layout that gives an extra row
of pads adjacent to the PIC-16F877, so that hobbiest can make more
modifications to my board. I also changed the silkscreen layers to
the 10mil that Olimex wants (they will fix it for $5, but as I am
McIntosh I chose to spend $500 of time to avoid the charge)
 
Jim Thompson <Jim-T@golana-will-get-you.com> wrote in message news:<r0bqlvcln5oq2mckvlah54op3s4319dain@4ax.com>...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:34:58 -0700, "Walter Harley"
walterh@cafewalter.com> wrote:


Since I am just tinkering with a wild-assed idea I'm going to go with
ExpressPCB. (I had no problem getting it going in a blink.) If the
idea shows promise I'll hire one of you professional PCB guys to
coalesce what I expect to be several ExpressPCB boards into a single
card.
Click to expand...

I have two 'half Eurocards' made with the freeware Eagle license. At
one time, I wanted them put onto a single Eurocard. It turns out that
the design ended up being much cleaner as two half cards, but the
question may be useful anyway.

Can someone merge two routed half eurocards as a service for me with
the commercial license? Is this request too close to the edge of the
freeware license agreements? (I stay squeaky clean.) It is just a
straight cut and paste, the two boards have matching connectors. The
boards are completely routed, but there would be airwires between the
connectors when they are merged, and those should become routed.
 
Aubrey McIntosh wrote:
Jim Thompson <Jim-T@golana-will-get-you.com> wrote in message news:<r0bqlvcln5oq2mckvlah54op3s4319dain@4ax.com>...

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:34:58 -0700, "Walter Harley"
walterh@cafewalter.com> wrote:


Since I am just tinkering with a wild-assed idea I'm going to go with
ExpressPCB. (I had no problem getting it going in a blink.) If the
idea shows promise I'll hire one of you professional PCB guys to
coalesce what I expect to be several ExpressPCB boards into a single
card.




I have two 'half Eurocards' made with the freeware Eagle license. At
one time, I wanted them put onto a single Eurocard. It turns out that
the design ended up being much cleaner as two half cards, but the
question may be useful anyway.

Can someone merge two routed half eurocards as a service for me with
the commercial license? Is this request too close to the edge of the
freeware license agreements? (I stay squeaky clean.) It is just a
straight cut and paste, the two boards have matching connectors. The
boards are completely routed, but there would be airwires between the
connectors when they are merged, and those should become routed.
Click to expand...

Aubrey:

Is it really that hard for you to come up with some $$$ to buy a
license? I have found CadSoft to be helpful when begging them for a
little extra discount now and then, for hobby use.

Are your boards for commercial or hobby purposes?


Good day!


--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarle@sandia.gov -- NOTE: Remove "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
 
In sci.electronics.design, Oliver Dain <odain2@nospam.mindspring.com>
wrote:

Jeff Zimmerman wrote:

I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much
out there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a
poor college student so I can't spend too much.

For the lazy, is there is a service to which one can submit the output
from software like Eagle and get a board made and mailed for a
reasonable price?
Click to expand...
There are surely several. I think pcbexpress.com does this. There's
also expresspcb.com, where you use their free CAD software that is
incompatible with standard CAD files. Since I don't have "real" PCB
CAD software and aren't up to speed on it anyway, I've used the
expresspcb.com service (their software is easy enough to learn) and
found them as good as advertised.
-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
 
I have also used ExpressPCB three boards $63 but no mask or silk. If I sent
a file today (Sunday) the boards would arrive Thursday (at least in the US)
and there is no mess to clean up and no chemicals to spill or children or
pets to get into.
even if you don't have them build the board there FREE download will do
schematic and layout and you can print the PCB on your printer and use the
printout for doing the home PCB thing. (ICY!)

Frank Pickens <frankpickens@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3F5FDE89.F73D3120@verizon.net...
Sent my first order to ExpressPCB Friday afternoon. Boards arived Airborne
Tuesday morning. Amazed at the speed and the quality. I will use them
again
although they ar a bit pricey.
Frank



Jim Thompson wrote:

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:16:50 -0700, Chris Carlen
crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote:

Jeff Zimmerman wrote:
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a
poor
college student so I can't spend too much.

Hi Jeff:

I have found that the prices for prototype PCB fabrication by
commercial
PCB houses is much cheaper than the time that I would have to spend to
make them myself, even on a student's budget.

A student can get for $33 at www.4pcb.com, a double sided, solder
masked, and silkscreened PCB.

Get Eagle which can do up to 100mm x 160mm for free, and your set.

[snip]

Anyone have comments about ExpressPCB?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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