printed circuit boards

J

Jeff Zimmerman

Guest
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
 
Jeff Zimmerman wrote:
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
Have a look at

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g.knott/elect434.htm
 
I've just got started to. Probably the cheapest way is etching pen, a
blank copper board and some etching solution (ammonium persulphate or ferric
chloride) If you start doing finer work then maybe investigate the press n
peel stuff.

"Jeff Zimmerman" <jrz126@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:cb2e8c1d.0309060517.1757ed8c@posting.google.com...
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
 
Jeff Zimmerman wrote:

I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
Well, you'll need three things at least.
* You'll need PCB software, which usually requires input from a schematic
netlist, but you certainly can enter a netlist by hand, but this gets very
tedious with modern high pin count parts, and is very error-prone.
But if you just want to make a board with a 28 pin DIP like a microcontroller,
and some parts like resistors and LEDS, it should be fine.
* When your layout is done, your layout software can output photoplot files,
which is what the people that physically build the PCB use to make the patterns.
If you want to make your own boards, you'll need a way to transfer that pattern
yourself onto a piece of copper-clad board. You can either print with a laser
printer to something called Press'n'peel and transfer the pattern directly with
a clothes iron (not a soldering iron :) ), or you print with a laser to a
transparency and use special boards that are light sensitive to expose your
artwork. You'll need a good UV source and some chemicals to develop the board.
You also need to clean the board before to make sure the artwork is on there
nice and good. Usually I use a sponge with an abrasive cleaner like Ajax, then I
rinse with tap water for a minute, then pre-etch the board for 30 seconds-ish,
then rinse again, then dry with a shammy.
* Once the artwork is on the board, you'll need some etchant to remove the
unwanted copper. I still use ferric chloride because it's cheap and it tastes
good. There are other etchants out there like ammonium persulphate, which is a
powder you mix with water, but doesn't taste nearly as good. :) Etchants are
fairly dangerous and can react wildly with metals, so you'll need nice plastic
containers to hold the ethchant. I use dollar store food containers.

You are on your own as to which software to use. Google around for something
called Eagle, people say it's good.
Also, be ready to try several times before you get some joy. And always use a
laser printer. I'm sure your school has a print shop or something like that. And
do some visual tests first, print on paper and check to see if your parts line
up on the printout, because I've seen something like +/- 5% variation in size
for so-called 1:1 printouts.
And for double-sided boards, try to get it all on one side, double-sided is too
much trouble unless it's a ground plane.
 
Well, there is allready a nice explanation replied on how to make curcuit
boards.

But then you still need to buy the UV lights, chemicals etc, which is
expensive, I know that for a student everything is expensive.

But here is what I did when I studied:

Find a practical technical school (mid-level), the kind of education people
do to become electronics service personal/repair stuff etc. Such a school
usually has all the equipment, I was able to make my pcb's in the evenings
at such a place when I studied, just material costs.

Good luck with it.
Cheers,
Jeroen.


On 6 Sep 2003 06:17:06 -0700, Jeff Zimmerman <jrz126@psu.edu> wrote:

I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
 
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:03:20 GMT, Oliver Dain <odain2@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote:

Jeff Zimmerman wrote:

For the lazy, is there is a service to which one can submit the output
from software like Eagle and get a board made and mailed for a
reasonable price?
Click to expand...
If you look on the Eagle website they provide a list of PCB houses that accept eagle files.
You don't say where you are, but we are in the US and have been happy with http://www.apcircuits.com in Canada.

--
Chuck Cox
SynchroSystems Motorsport Computers
Hopped/Up Racing Team
<chuck@synchro.com> <cccox@fas.harvard.edu>
<http://www.synchro.com>
 
Darkage wrote:

I've just got started to. Probably the cheapest way is etching pen, a
Click to expand...
Yeah, but that gets old fast. I used to use the direct transfer method, you
know, those press on decals?
 
Try the Engineering Student PCB Program at Advanced Circuits

$33 per board. See link and specs below.


https://www.4pcb.com/student.htm
Each Specs

2-layers, FR-4, 0.062", 1 oz Cu Plate, Solder Finish, Min 6-mil Lines,
All Plated Holes, Green LPI Mask, White Legend, Individually Routed, 1
Part Number per Order, Max Size 85 sq. inches, no slots, internal
routing or gold. All $33 each orders will be built to these specs.
Extra charges apply for multiple part, step, and repeat designs. No
scoring or internal routing.

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:03:20 GMT, Oliver Dain
<odain2@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote:

Jeff Zimmerman wrote:

I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much
out there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a
poor college student so I can't spend too much.

For the lazy, is there is a service to which one can submit the output
from software like Eagle and get a board made and mailed for a
reasonable price?
Click to expand...
 
"Jeff Zimmerman" <jrz126@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:cb2e8c1d.0309060517.1757ed8c@posting.google.com...
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
It would be really helpful to know whether you were interested in making a
pc board as a prototype / breadboard, or whether you were interested in
making production quantities.
 
I know you want to make your own but, there are some very cheap PCB
manufacturing services available now. Prices start around $40 for a single
sided PCB.

Try these for instance...

http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Costs.htm

http://www.pcb-pool.com/uk_index.htm


"Oliver Dain" <odain2@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:YGm6b.1291$Yt.270@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Jeff Zimmerman wrote:

I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much
out there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a
poor college student so I can't spend too much.

For the lazy, is there is a service to which one can submit the output
from software like Eagle and get a board made and mailed for a
reasonable price?
Click to expand...
 
Well, for the copper laminate itself, check :
"http://www.st-anna-data.se/" under the
"PCB laminate" link. 9" x 12" double sided for
only $2.50 each, high quality.

For single-sided, just etch one side away...

Jan-Erik.
(Yes, it's my site...)
(Check out the carbide drills at the same time !)



Jeff Zimmerman wrote:
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
 
"Oliver Dain" <odain2@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:YGm6b.1291$Yt.270@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Jeff Zimmerman wrote:

I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much
out there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a
poor college student so I can't spend too much.

For the lazy, is there is a service to which one can submit the output
from software like Eagle and get a board made and mailed for a
reasonable price?
Click to expand...


There are lots of deals out there, but I use this one:

http://www.1pcb.com/

I'm not affiliated with them.

-John
 
A good layout program like Eagle. A laser printer. And Press-N-Peel.
Forget double sided as electro plating is a messy process, unless you spend the money to have the
boards made by a shop.
You can do double sided, by adding registration holes, and soldering the vias manually. But it gets
cumbersome.

BTW, I think the UV stuff is for the birds.

Cheers
Martin
"Jeff Zimmerman" <jrz126@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:cb2e8c1d.0309060517.1757ed8c@posting.google.com...
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
 
On 6 Sep 2003 06:17:06 -0700, jrz126@psu.edu (Jeff Zimmerman) wrote:

I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...

You might want to check out my page at
<www.daqarta.com/lptxh.htm>
This uses an ordinary "Sharpie" felt tip pen
and ferric chloride etchant. Lots of notes on
all the little details, like making the original
artwork on graph paper if you don't use CAD,
getting the right etchant concentration, and
using dental burs in a Dremel tool instead
of drill bits.

I've used this method for about 20 years now.
If you don't already use a CAD program, you
may find the graph paper approach to be a
_lot_ faster than learning the CAD, though
you'll want to do that eventually. But I've
used graph paper for fairly complicated
2-sided boards with good results.


Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
Shareware from Interstellar Research
www.daqarta.com
 
Jeff Zimmerman wrote:
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.
Click to expand...
Hi Jeff:

I have found that the prices for prototype PCB fabrication by commercial
PCB houses is much cheaper than the time that I would have to spend to
make them myself, even on a student's budget.

A student can get for $33 at www.4pcb.com, a double sided, solder
masked, and silkscreened PCB.

Get Eagle which can do up to 100mm x 160mm for free, and your set.

Next, seriously work at getting someone at the school to pay for your
costs. Get some sort of lab assistant job, or get involved with some
research projects. There are likely folks who have budgets that can pay
for your PCBs, and maybe even a higher license level of Eagle to do
larger boards and more layers, if need be. Dream up some cool circuit
they can use for an undergrad lab project, talk them into wanting it,
then put your project's pattern on the same board (but try to make it
unobvious, as 4pcb.com might reject it if it's obvious there are more
than one "part numbers" on the board). Cut the two patterns apart later.

I would also avoid the real easy and simple PCB programs out there,
which may not provide enough headroom for you to grow, as you move
closer to a career. Eagle is a "mid-level" program. In my view, it's
just right for a beginner, and sophisticated enough to handle your needs
for many years of learning and skill development. Also, the newest
version of Eagle really adds a bunch of features that take it closer to
the high-mid-level. And there are a number of licensing levels for
different budgets.

Good day!


--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarle@sandia.gov -- NOTE: Remove "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
 
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:16:50 -0700, the renowned Chris Carlen
<crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote:

Jeff Zimmerman wrote:
I'm a 2nd year EE student, and I have a general background in
electronics. I'm trtying to get started in making my own circuit
boards. I've done some research on the web, but there is too much out
there.

Can anyone recommend what to buy, and where to buy it. I'd like to
make double-sided boards, but I'll settle for single-sided. I'm a poor
college student so I can't spend too much.

Hi Jeff:

I have found that the prices for prototype PCB fabrication by commercial
PCB houses is much cheaper than the time that I would have to spend to
make them myself, even on a student's budget.

A student can get for $33 at www.4pcb.com, a double sided, solder
masked, and silkscreened PCB.
Click to expand...
Is that a student special? Their terms state a minimum of 3 pieces at
that price, plus shipping, plus a $10 handling fee, so more like USD
120.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:35:23 +0200, the renowned Jan-Erik Söderholm
<aaa@aaa.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Is Eagle easy to use?

Yes.

Jan-Erik.
Click to expand...
Are you feeling ambivalent about it, Jan? ;-)

It seems to be the most popular of the low-cost packages.
http://www.cadsoftusa.com/eagle41e.pdf


BTW (for Jan only), here are some drawings of those knobs I
sent you.

http://www.trexon.com/pdfs/trexon_knob_15mm_dwg.png
http://www.trexon.com/pdfs/trexon_knob_32mm_dwg.png
http://www.trexon.com/pdfs/trexon_encoder_revA.pdf

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
Oliver Dain wrote:
For the lazy, is there is a service to which one can submit the output
from software like Eagle and get a board made and mailed for a
reasonable price?
Click to expand...
http://www.olimex.com - roughly USD $26 for a 2-sided board with
silkscreen and solder mask. By far the cheapest I've found for single
boards.

You will find that most other PCB houses offer ~$13 boards, but
effectively require a $75 to $100 minimum order. At least the 12 or so
major shops I've surveyed.

http://www.pcbpool.com is commonly mentioned for cheap boards. They
were about 2x-3x Olimex in my personal survey, but I was profiling a
certain spec (2-sided, solder mask, silkscreen). They may be very good
for bare boards.
 
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