PRC as a amplifier in GPS question.

[Atheist Chaplain]

"Kwyjibo" <kwyjibo@ozdebate.remove.com> wrote in message
newsI2dnc8eQMK_-oTVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

"Atheist Chaplain" <abused@cia.gov> wrote in message
news:RF7Sj.6489$ko5.3857@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Doug Jewell" <ask@and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote in message
news:48185535$0$9716$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
Atheist Chaplain wrote:

how can aGPS help you to lock on to a satellite signal any quicker ??
It's inherent to the way GPS works. They constantly transmit a signal
that includes the time according to the satellite's atomic clock, and
also the satellite's postion. The receiver uses the time taken for the
signals to reach it to determine the distance from the satellite. Using
a bit of math, as long is it knows the distance to 4 or more satellites,
and the position of those satellites, it can triangulate. But there's a
catch - the satellite transmits this data at a fairly low bitrate, and
so it takes 30 seconds for the whole data packet to be transmitted. In a
best-case scenario, it will take 30 seconds to get the position
information from the satellite, but if the signal is interrupted,
corrupted etc during this 30 seconds, the GPSr doesn't know where the
satellite is, so it can't compute the position accurately (or at all).
This can cause delays in getting a fix of sometimes several minutes.
Additionally, the satellite position data can be up to 2 hours old, and
it takes approx 12 minutes for the entire catalog of satellite data to
be downloaded. Until this is received, the accuracy of the fix can be
poor.
To speed this process up though, and to get a more accurate fix, some
GPSr's allow you to download predicted satellite positions. Because the
GPSr already knows the satellite position, it only needs the timecode
from the satellite, not the whole packet. This allows a faster, and more
accurate fix.
that's just another rort by the Telco's to extort money from the
gullible, I though aGPS was to download things like voice direction and
POI's (things that were intentionally stripped out of the Telco
supplied GPS software so they could then charge you for it at
exorbitant data transfer fee rates)


while that may be true I have yet to see a time when my Navman GPS
doesn't see at least 5 satellites and currently my Tom tom phone system
is tracking 9 sats. Admittedly I'm not in the concrete jungle of Shitney
but even when I am,

And your navman and tom tom have slightly better GPS antenna, and don't
have a 3G transmitter sitting right next to them causing interference.

the only time I have lost signal was when I was in one of the tunnels. to
be fair I have never been driving so fast in Shitney that the GPS
couldn't keep up with my position so I fail to see any benefit from aGPS.

I've turned mine off, but definitely saw quicker lock times for the short
period I had it active.

--
Kwyj.

My Tom tom is in my phone
I have an N80i with the Tomtom for symbian installed and I use a $12 Holux
Bluetooth GPS receiver to get the signal, it works a treat, I tested it out
in Shitney a while ago and the only gripe I have with it is its route
selection, the Navman shits all over it in that regards IMHO.

--
"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
Don Hirschberg

 

[Horry]

On Thu, 01 May 2008 16:45:52 +1000, Kwyjibo wrote:

"Atheist Chaplain" <abused@cia.gov> wrote in message
news:RF7Sj.6489$ko5.3857@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Doug Jewell" <ask@and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote in message
news:48185535$0$9716$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
Atheist Chaplain wrote:

how can aGPS help you to lock on to a satellite signal any quicker ??
It's inherent to the way GPS works. They constantly transmit a signal
that includes the time according to the satellite's atomic clock, and
also the satellite's postion. The receiver uses the time taken for the
signals to reach it to determine the distance from the satellite. Using a
bit of math, as long is it knows the distance to 4 or more satellites,
and the position of those satellites, it can triangulate. But there's a
catch - the satellite transmits this data at a fairly low bitrate, and so
it takes 30 seconds for the whole data packet to be transmitted. In a
best-case scenario, it will take 30 seconds to get the position
information from the satellite, but if the signal is interrupted,
corrupted etc during this 30 seconds, the GPSr doesn't know where the
satellite is, so it can't compute the position accurately (or at all).
This can cause delays in getting a fix of sometimes several minutes.
Additionally, the satellite position data can be up to 2 hours old, and
it takes approx 12 minutes for the entire catalog of satellite data to be
downloaded. Until this is received, the accuracy of the fix can be poor.
To speed this process up though, and to get a more accurate fix, some
GPSr's allow you to download predicted satellite positions. Because the
GPSr already knows the satellite position, it only needs the timecode
from the satellite, not the whole packet. This allows a faster, and more
accurate fix.
that's just another rort by the Telco's to extort money from the
gullible, I though aGPS was to download things like voice direction and
POI's (things that were intentionally stripped out of the Telco supplied
GPS software so they could then charge you for it at exorbitant data
transfer fee rates)


while that may be true I have yet to see a time when my Navman GPS doesn't
see at least 5 satellites and currently my Tom tom phone system is
tracking 9 sats. Admittedly I'm not in the concrete jungle of Shitney but
even when I am,

And your navman and tom tom have slightly better GPS antenna, and don't have
a 3G transmitter sitting right next to them causing interference.

Tomtom not tom tom.


--
I'm into girls only, so bad luck guys. Wangle your Woo at someone else...

 

[Doug Jewell]

Just JT wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The downside of living in non-low-rent areas is that public transport is
very average. A private motor vehicle is essential where I live.

BTW, I don't believe in this global warming myth.

--
Will.never.get.sucked.in.by.this.Al.Gore.carbon.credit.scam.

The most sensible thing I've ever seen you write! The more I

study it, the more Global Warming reeks of being just a
scare campaign to allow some vested interests to make a lot
of money out of the western industrialized nations, by doing
nothing more than creating hysteria. Wish I thought of it!!

 

[kreed]

On May 1, 6:50 pm, Doug Jewell <a...@and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote:

Just JT wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The downside of living in non-low-rent areas is that public transport is
very average. A private motor vehicle is essential where I live.

BTW, I don't believe in this global warming myth.

--
Will.never.get.sucked.in.by.this.Al.Gore.carbon.credit.scam.

The most sensible thing I've ever seen you write! The more I
study it, the more Global Warming reeks of being just a
scare campaign to allow some vested interests to make a lot
of money out of the western industrialized nations, by doing
nothing more than creating hysteria. Wish I thought of it!!

Just another method of control, taxation and socialism. One of the
biggest scams.

The best way to "save the nation" and coal would be to use
enviromentalists as fuel.

 

[Bob Parker]

On 1/05/2008 19:09 kreed wrote:

On May 1, 6:50 pm, Doug Jewell <a...@and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote:
Just JT wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The downside of living in non-low-rent areas is that public transport is
very average. A private motor vehicle is essential where I live.
BTW, I don't believe in this global warming myth.
--
Will.never.get.sucked.in.by.this.Al.Gore.carbon.credit.scam.
The most sensible thing I've ever seen you write! The more I
study it, the more Global Warming reeks of being just a
scare campaign to allow some vested interests to make a lot
of money out of the western industrialized nations, by doing
nothing more than creating hysteria. Wish I thought of it!!

Just another method of control, taxation and socialism. One of the
biggest scams.

The best way to "save the nation" and coal would be to use
enviromentalists as fuel.

You might be interested in having a look at the 1990 "The
Greenhouse Conspiracy" at:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5949034802461518010

and much more recent:

"The Great Global Warming Swindle" which is around in torrent form.

 

[Tom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_irQTOUwA

 

[Joerg]

Joel Koltner wrote:

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:481b06ff$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
http://rtr.ca/welec_w2022a/
Ouch! Obviously not re-badge...

I'm amazed that they can come up with the money to purchase plastic moldings
and get some semblance of a production line going yet they can't find some
decent programmers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is that they hired an ME for the case
design and other mechanics, but they're doing the software and hardware design
in-house and simply aren't that good at it... but won't admit it and therefore
hire outside help.

I'm also not convined that just ripping off HP's interface/mechanical design
is really going to garner them many sales they'd otherwise lose... it's not
like anyone's fooled, are they? I'd take the chance to try to improve on HP's
design or at least come up with your own "style" even if the interface is
largely the same.

Some companies do that. Like Instek where I bought a scope a while ago.
It has rather interesting features over and above of what the "big two"
offer. Also a fast PC connection that really helps guys over 40 like me.
Don't have to juggle between 1.5x and 3x glasses anymore when using that
scope. Now if they just hadn't picked those bonbon colors as channel
identifiers ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

On May 2, 8:20 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Tom" <T...@nospam.com> wrote in messagenews:481b023b$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_irQTOUwA

Thanks for that.

http://rtr.ca/welec_w2022a/
Ouch! Obviously not re-badge...

Dave.

Yeah I'll stick to my 45 year old 1S1 1GHz sampler.

 

[Joerg]

Joel Koltner wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:5JHSj.1843$3O7.934@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
Some companies do that. Like Instek where I bought a scope a while ago. It
has rather interesting features over and above of what the "big two" offer.

Yes, I remember you seemed rather happy with that purchase. Which model did
you get again?

It is the GDS-2204. The not so nice thing is a lowish screen resolution
but OTOH the screen is rather bright. Had to turn it way down. Often I
use the PC anyway and then you can have all the resolution you want.
It's amazing how many languages they crammed in, some I don't even know
(they are only indicated in their native "hyroglyphs"). Also I don't
like the automatic transition to equivalent time sampling that all those
DSOs do.

I like what the cleverscope.com guys have to offer, although I do wish they'd
go above 100MHz (but I guess I'm spoiled when 400MHz 2465s have been around
forever and it's been more than a decade since I've had anything less than
500MHz digital readily available at work).

Nowadays you really need more than 100MHz.

That Instek GSP-830 spectrum analyzer is looking nice, although they want
$5,400 for it.

Also a fast PC connection that really helps guys over 40 like me.

Hmm... and here I was thinking was a useful and inexpensive display/control
something like a Nokia N800 (800x480 4.1" LCD,
http://www.mobilegazette.com/nokia-n800-n76-n93i-6161nfc.htm -- runs Linux,
dirt cheap at $220) or Windows Mobile-based PDA (the ones with 640x480 LCDs...
320x240 is a little crude, as the Tek TDS2000 series of scopes demonstrates)
would be.

Wait until you grow older. Then a 15" laptop screen is really nice

Now if they just hadn't picked those bonbon colors as channel identifiers ...

Yeah, most test equpment sure doesn't "look" like test equipment anymore these
days.

I just got used to it and I'd rather accept bonbon colors and 25K
storage depth than Tek look and 2.5k depth.

John Larkin's stuff still does.

However, it does carry a different price tag. He's hinted that there
could be a d.s.e. discount though.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[legg]

On Fri, 2 May 2008 11:30:11 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@msn.com> wrote in message
news:fb1638c1-9e26-45fb-8a31-d1779f26c9e6@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
_HP's_ design??!! Puleeeezzz!

I know they didn't design the hardware itself, but don't you think they still
"designed" the interface (both GUI and mechanical)? Or did Rigol or whoever
it was already have that design out before HP came along?

I think his point was that Tek lead with cheap DPO's.(and usable

triggering)

RL

 

[Joerg]

Joel Koltner wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:KqISj.73$8i5.13@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
However, it does carry a different price tag. He's hinted that there could
be a d.s.e. discount though.

His P400 programmable pulse generator is quite reasonably priced... we almost
bought one at work here, although then the guy who was thinking of needing one
decided he didn't, in fact, need such fast pulses after all.

I am still using an analog pulse generator, the PM5785B from
Philips/Sweden. Ok, not totally analog since you can click the number of
pulses into a mechanical BCD switch array with rolling number wheels. I
love that little retro gadget in there.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Tom Bruhns]

On May 2, 9:49 am, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:481b06ff$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

http://rtr.ca/welec_w2022a/
Ouch! Obviously not re-badge...

I'm amazed that they can come up with the money to purchase plastic moldings
and get some semblance of a production line going yet they can't find some
decent programmers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is that they hired an ME for the case
design and other mechanics, but they're doing the software and hardware design
in-house and simply aren't that good at it... but won't admit it and therefore
hire outside help.

I'm also not convined that just ripping off HP's interface/mechanical design
is really going to garner them many sales they'd otherwise lose... it's not
like anyone's fooled, are they? I'd take the chance to try to improve on HP's
design or at least come up with your own "style" even if the interface is
largely the same.

_HP's_ design??!! Puleeeezzz!

 

[Joerg]

Paul E. Schoen wrote:

"legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in message
news:npom14hhrk3vhemsr1hlthi127h3s1no82@4ax.com...
On Fri, 2 May 2008 11:30:11 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Tom Bruhns" <k7itm@msn.com> wrote in message
news:fb1638c1-9e26-45fb-8a31-d1779f26c9e6@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
_HP's_ design??!! Puleeeezzz!
I know they didn't design the hardware itself, but don't you think they
still
"designed" the interface (both GUI and mechanical)? Or did Rigol or
whoever
it was already have that design out before HP came along?

I think his point was that Tek lead with cheap DPO's.(and usable
triggering)

In the late 1980's I was in the market for a DSO, and I worked for a
company that was a stocking distributor and service center for Tektronics.
However, the programming interface was klunky, and the controls were not
laid out very well. They even had a test board to check performance. I
wound up purchasing a Hitachi storage scope, which I still use today. It's
only 60 MHz but I don't do RF, and it's fine for switching power supplies,
audio, and line frequency work that is my usual fare.

I had always liked HP scopes over Tek, and I still have an HP130A. I liked
their panel layouts, and the large knobs with a subdued color scheme and a
very positive feel. There is a picture of this model (along with racks of
old HP equipment) in this website I found:

IMHO Tek had the better trigger sensitivity and behavior.

http://www.kennethkuhn.com/hpmuseum/hp_tour.htm

Oh man, my wife would have a fit if I ran a museum as large as that.

I also had one of the HP200B oscillators with rounded corners that was
vintage 1941, but I gave it away with a lot of other old equipment for
which I did not have room (or use). It's nice to know someone cares enough
to preserve this legacy.

How did they mill the numbers and such into the metal in those days?
They didn't have CNC back then.

I've got an old Rhode&Schwarz SMF that dates back to that era, but with
a tired tube in there. My wife would like it if it went into the hands
of someone who treasures that, as long as that someone isn't me ;-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Joerg]

Joel Koltner wrote:

"Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@smart.net> wrote in message
news:481b7137$0$19807$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net...
http://www.kennethkuhn.com/hpmuseum/hp_tour.htm

That man has a lot of cats.

Oh, and HP equipment too.

I enjoyed his writing about his teaching experiences, e.g.,
http://www.kennethkuhn.com/writings/commentaries/the%20quality%20of%20students%20today.htm .

Nice. Although I think he misses an important point. Even today's good
students aren't as good anymore as they came 20 or more years ago. For
EEs the reason is that while they are motivated most never had exposure
to real hardware. Because everything was given to them. When their
radio, toy, whatever broke they just got new one and chucked the broken one.

It's just like with any other task. For example the best drivers are not
the smart cookies but the ones with half a million miles or more under
the belt. Nothing and certainly no amount of school activity can replace
real experience.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Joerg]

Joel Koltner wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:LWKSj.8203$iK6.2303@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
For EEs the reason is that while they are motivated most never had exposure
to real hardware. Because everything was given to them. When their radio,
toy, whatever broke they just got new one and chucked the broken one.

Yes, although starting somewhere in the '80s even if they had wanted to repair
the old one it became substantially harder as more and more discrete
components ended up inside of hard-to-source ICs. I wonder if there are even
any professional TV reapair shops left that troubleshoot to the component
level rather than just the module level? (Since of course with labor costs
being what they are relative to new modules cost, it's generally cheaper not
to do so.)

Well, let's see. Recently I have repaired:

* A clock radio (solder joint at LED display)
* Garage door opener (hanging relay)
* Remote for garage door opener (cracked resistor)
* A furnace controller (blown SCR)
* A sprinkler timer (blown triac)
* Numerous sprinkler valves (all sorts of broken things)
* Several X10 modules (poor quality in general, IMHO)
* A HP4191 (bad transistor in backup charge circuit)
* A telephone (loose wire to keypad)
* Lots of other stuff that I don't remember

My wife manages the honey-do list and when something is done it's
checked off and we go to the next item so I don't remember some stuff.

Hint: Don't let your wife see this post or she may get an idea and then
your Saturday's are toast ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Joerg]

Tom Bruhns wrote:

On May 2, 2:33 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Joerg" <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message

news:LWKSj.8203$iK6.2303@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

For EEs the reason is that while they are motivated most never had exposure
to real hardware. Because everything was given to them. When their radio,
toy, whatever broke they just got new one and chucked the broken one.
Yes, although starting somewhere in the '80s even if they had wanted to repair
the old one it became substantially harder as more and more discrete
components ended up inside of hard-to-source ICs. I wonder if there are even
any professional TV reapair shops left that troubleshoot to the component
level rather than just the module level? (Since of course with labor costs
being what they are relative to new modules cost, it's generally cheaper not
to do so.)

---Joel

My cousin was driven out of that business quite a few years ago.
Things got both more reliable and more expensive to fix if they did
break, and at the same time, the feature set introduction rate
increased, making it less attractive to keep the old stuff; now it's
replaced even if it is working, just to get new features.

But I don't agree that the current crop of EE grads are inferior; they
are simply different. Not as large a percentage are into the same
sort of hardware that was designed 20 years ago, but then we're not
designing that sort of hardware now anyway. An FPGA in BGA running
GHz clock rates on serial ports isn't something you can plug into a
little white breadboard, but inside that part can easily be logic that
would have spilled over ten large logic boards 20 years ago. The new
grads we've hired in the last few years don't have the same skill set
as new grads of 20 years ago, but I also don't see them being afraid
to do hardware designs.

I'd also be happy to trade some of the 50+ year old long-time drivers
I see on the road around here for some much younger ones that have
gone through driver education and licensing in Germany recently. Time
behind the wheel doesn't cure idiotic behavior. One might hope the
worst of the idiots would kill themselves off, but there always seem
to be more to take their places.

Whew, good ... I did drivers ed and license in Germany. Then again in
the US. But I'm not young :-(

The insurance companies saw that differently after we moved across the
pond. "You guys are all related to Michael Schumacher". -> Decline to
quote :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Hammy]

On Fri, 2 May 2008 17:48:15 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen" <pstech@smart.net>
wrote:

[snip]

In a class on Games and Artificial Intelligence, I worked hard on a
programming project and turned in a pretty good assignment, and I was
appalled when it was returned with a note saying that the professor had
learned that there was a lot of cheating going on, although he did not
specifically blame me. I'm sure things have deteriorated since then.

I finished school three years ago and yes I agree cheating is
ridiculous. What used to amaze me is that the cheaters would actually
believe they are geniuses because they got straight "A's". Some of
them would sit with there text books on there laps during a test. They
would also Copy assignments' from previous years etc. I could never
understand how the Prof couldn't notice. I did read a study done which
included your ivy league schools that concluded that greater then 80%
of students cheated regularly. These people probably all work at
Wittig.

snip

This attitude, poor character, and lack of responsibility also appears as
poor decision making in real life, as evidenced by many of those who are
now losing their homes in the sub-prime mortgage crisis. Many of these
people were duped into getting themselves into unrealistic situations
because they did not get a good education, which was freely offered to
them, and had the expectation that things would be just given to them
because they were somehow entitled to it. They kept their poor spending
habits and accumulated more debt, until their house of plastic cards fell
down on them. But now they expect the government to step in and save them
from their own irresponsibility.

Yes some people definitely need to learn financial restraint. I follow
these rules if I can't pay cash I can't afford it. With the exception
of big ticket items like vehicles 5 years max to pay it off or don't
buy the dam thing.

I was curious as to how people who make about the same amount of
money as me can own all these things but I guess they don't own them
the bank does. I may not have too much but what I have I own.

If it was the Canadian goverment they would probably buy all the
houses.

I was challenged on this when I brought it up and discussed it on
rec.pets.dogs.behavior, where most people thought I was being heartless and
uncaring about these poor people. I realize there are some cases where good
people had bad things happen to them through no fault of their own, and
they deserve some sympathy and assistance, but most probably were lazy
students with poor character.

Paul

 

[Joerg]

Joel Koltner wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:HVMSj.8228$iK6.4910@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
Well, let's see. Recently I have repaired:

* A clock radio (solder joint at LED display)

I have a clock radio that uses the LED display to both tell the time and
display the frequency of the radio. It has a problem where it often gets
stuck displaying the radio frequency (even when the radio is off!), and you
need to slap it slightly to get it to work correctly again. I'm planning on
just tossing it, since it cost all of $15.

Ours was $9.95

But I repaired it for two reasons. Walmart would certainly have chucked
it, meaning more waste in the landfills. Then the drive would have been
60 minutes round trip. The repair took 15 minutes. The diagnostic
instrument was a toothpick.

* Garage door opener (hanging relay)
* Remote for garage door opener (cracked resistor)

Our garage door opener has a range of all of 15', although I think it's just
due to the guy who previously owned the house not realizing that that dangling
wire of a receive antenna wouldn't work so well if he "neatly" bundled it up
into a tiny ball. (I haven't fixed it yet.)

* Several X10 modules (poor quality in general, IMHO)

Yeah, not worth your hard-earned dollars, Joerg.

But there ain't nothin' else :-(

Hint: Don't let your wife see this post or she may get an idea and then your
Saturday's are toast ...

Don't worry, I won't... I'd rather spend more spare "electronics hobby" time
building new stuff rather than repairing old stuff!

To an extent I'll concede you've proved your point, although I do think the
items that many a kid or teen today would be *interested* in repairing
(because they do cost a non-negligible sum) would be their Xbox 350, their
cell phone, their iPod, their laptop PC, etc... and all of these items are
difficult if not impossible to repair at the board level.

That's exactly the point, *interested*. IMHO only a person with a great
deal of curiosity will become a good engineer. And curiosity includes
taking things apart. Lots of things. Guess what I did when I bought five
of those $3 Harborfreight meters? Opened one up before even trying it.
This was a super lesson in ultra low cost design, something no professor
could ever teach.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Tom Bruhns]

On May 2, 2:33 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message

news:LWKSj.8203$iK6.2303@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

For EEs the reason is that while they are motivated most never had exposure
to real hardware. Because everything was given to them. When their radio,
toy, whatever broke they just got new one and chucked the broken one.

Yes, although starting somewhere in the '80s even if they had wanted to repair
the old one it became substantially harder as more and more discrete
components ended up inside of hard-to-source ICs. I wonder if there are even
any professional TV reapair shops left that troubleshoot to the component
level rather than just the module level? (Since of course with labor costs
being what they are relative to new modules cost, it's generally cheaper not
to do so.)

---Joel

My cousin was driven out of that business quite a few years ago.
Things got both more reliable and more expensive to fix if they did
break, and at the same time, the feature set introduction rate
increased, making it less attractive to keep the old stuff; now it's
replaced even if it is working, just to get new features.

But I don't agree that the current crop of EE grads are inferior; they
are simply different. Not as large a percentage are into the same
sort of hardware that was designed 20 years ago, but then we're not
designing that sort of hardware now anyway. An FPGA in BGA running
GHz clock rates on serial ports isn't something you can plug into a
little white breadboard, but inside that part can easily be logic that
would have spilled over ten large logic boards 20 years ago. The new
grads we've hired in the last few years don't have the same skill set
as new grads of 20 years ago, but I also don't see them being afraid
to do hardware designs.

I'd also be happy to trade some of the 50+ year old long-time drivers
I see on the road around here for some much younger ones that have
gone through driver education and licensing in Germany recently. Time
behind the wheel doesn't cure idiotic behavior. One might hope the
worst of the idiots would kill themselves off, but there always seem
to be more to take their places.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Tom Bruhns]

On May 2, 11:30 am, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

"Tom Bruhns" <k7...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:fb1638c1-9e26-45fb-8a31-d1779f26c9e6@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...

_HP's_ design??!! Puleeeezzz!

I know they didn't design the hardware itself, but don't you think they still
"designed" the interface (both GUI and mechanical)? Or did Rigol or whoever
it was already have that design out before HP came along?

Joel, it hasn't been HP for about eight YEARS now! There's not a
whole lot still in production at Agilent that was designed by HP, and
those scopes certainly weren't. Agilent is NOT an HP subsidiary.
They are two totally separate companies.

Cheers,
Tom