power supply 1-wire remote sense...

[Edward Hernandez]

In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me>
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe stated:

Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe\'s post ratio
to USENET (**) has been 61.8% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.

** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe has posted at
least 1954 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
1035 have been Troll Doe \"troll format\" postings.

The John Dope troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Dope troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Dope troll has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:57:02 -0000 (UTC) in message-id
<t8nkgt$5j9$5@dont-email.me>).

NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that John Doe does not even follow
the rules it uses to troll other posters.

6gGXGD9dZRVQ

 

[Ricky]

On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 3:24:13 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:05:08 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com
wrote:
On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter system?

It\'s a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
remote sense.
What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
edge connectors and the plugs.

We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
designed in the 70s and 80s.
Yes, rs can be connected wrong and make a power supply go nuts. The
dual ADC allows us to compare the output and the rs feedback and see
if they make sense.
I\'d prefer fewer ADCs (thinking of these as feedback elements into an op amp-style
regulator) because of their delays. Ideally, just program a reference, and
apply gain to that, with suitable filter caps on the output. MHz power currents
come from the capacitors, kHz power currents come from the amplifier, and
a single ADC can alternate reading the reference and the output; using three
ADCs seems overcomplex. If you just integrate DC errors (P-I-D style)
using the digital stuff, the delay isn\'t an issue.

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?

The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

 

[John Walliker]

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:

On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
only I could buy them!
John

 

[server]

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
<jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
only I could buy them!
John

It\'s really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

Mouser is expecting some in 2023!



--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

 

[server]

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
only I could buy them!
John

It\'s really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

I guess I\'ll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.



--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:19:44 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
John Walliker wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
Ricky wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

<snip>

It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will
curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, and
xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. If
I read it correctly, chips manufactured in China might be less affected
than others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas

\"Neon, argon, krypton, and xenon are obtained from air in an air separation unit using the methods of liquefaction of gases and fractional distillation.\"

Everybody liquifies air and sells liquid nitrogen. Elaborating the the plant a bit to pull out the noble gases isn\'t rocket science. Russia and the Ukraine may have tooled up for cheap mass production, but replacing them isn\'t going to be a big deal. It would probably just mean taking old kit out of mothball storage.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
only I could buy them!
John

It\'s really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

I guess I\'ll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable
to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

> Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

We\'re exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get.
We\'re also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
because some asshole bought up the world\'s supply of ADA4899s in the
sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to
normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn\'t like
the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 14:13:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
only I could buy them!
John

It\'s really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

I guess I\'ll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable
to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

We\'re exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get.
We\'re also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
because some asshole bought up the world\'s supply of ADA4899s in the
sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to
normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn\'t like
the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

M**** scrooed us badly, so we had to make 3000 of this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzvv09ymjxwpdtj/Break2.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/50b1af02vcoqjgk/OnBoard.jpg?raw=1


--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[Piotr Wyderski]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

This ought to work and has some real virtues.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

Another trick worth mentioning is to use a 595 with two sufficiently
different tau RC integrators at the inputs. With the built-in Schmitt
triggers these form monostable multivibrators and allow piggy-backing of
the strobe signals on the data line. One can further steal the idea from
the Dallas 1-wire chips and by adding a diode merge the VDD and the data
line. By PWMing the VDD it becomes a truly one-way 1-wire digital link.
Now, if the current consumption of the receiver is known, the receiver
can connect (or not) a digitally controlled load, say 3x the current
consumption for easy discrimination. The transmitter now sees I_load or
3xI-load and a receiver -> transmitter channel is formed with the same
VDD line. You end up with a bidirectional 1-wire link using jellybean
parts at the receiver end. The complexity is in the transmitter.

Best regards, Piotr

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 14:13:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
only I could buy them!
John

It\'s really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

I guess I\'ll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable
to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

We\'re exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get.
We\'re also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
because some asshole bought up the world\'s supply of ADA4899s in the
sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to
normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn\'t like
the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)


M**** scrooed us badly, so we had to make 3000 of this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzvv09ymjxwpdtj/Break2.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/50b1af02vcoqjgk/OnBoard.jpg?raw=1

Yup, that\'s the plan for us too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[John Walliker]

On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 20:33:55 UTC+1, Piotr Wyderski wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

This ought to work and has some real virtues.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
Another trick worth mentioning is to use a 595 with two sufficiently
different tau RC integrators at the inputs. With the built-in Schmitt
triggers these form monostable multivibrators and allow piggy-backing of
the strobe signals on the data line. One can further steal the idea from
the Dallas 1-wire chips and by adding a diode merge the VDD and the data
line. By PWMing the VDD it becomes a truly one-way 1-wire digital link.
Now, if the current consumption of the receiver is known, the receiver
can connect (or not) a digitally controlled load, say 3x the current
consumption for easy discrimination. The transmitter now sees I_load or
3xI-load and a receiver -> transmitter channel is formed with the same
VDD line. You end up with a bidirectional 1-wire link using jellybean
parts at the receiver end. The complexity is in the transmitter.

Best regards, Piotr

Something similar has been done in cochlear implants where low
bandwidth telemetry is sent back to the external rf transmitter by
modulating the load .

John

 

[John Doe]

Anybody can take some words from my reply to John Larkin, stick them in
Google\'s search engine, and find ACCURATE information about the subject.

Bozo should stick to arguing with \"a a\", they make a good pair...

--
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4f10:b0:39c:7e7d:b9de with SMTP id l16-20020a05600c4f1000b0039c7e7db9demr24959191wmq.94.1655732891782; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:e781:0:b0:668:b973:7f22 with SMTP id e123-20020a25e781000000b00668b9737f22mr17886017ybh.512.1655732891117; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!209.85.128.87.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:48:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <t8p01a$q7d$1@dont-email.me
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=192.87.79.65; posting-account=SJ46pgoAAABuUDuHc5uDiXN30ATE-zi-
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.87.79.65
References: <fee7c65c-1e2e-4a44-b7be-2f06c609715bn@googlegroups.com> <53ppah1es0nl6tsgblhnjs8f96jvadcgbt@4ax.com> <P7qdnSQX-_EIZzH_nZ2dnUU7-ffNnZ2d@giganews.com> <lhvpahh9h2iak2mruc8hlg9jt9n1is7al8@4ax.com> <be729e4d-15cb-404e-bba3-34c8d3bce703n@googlegroups.com> <679d5a33-3dbf-4bd0-9a94-7b9b6114dc60n@googlegroups.com> <6fa7a5c0-acea-4ade-b7ec-98a18ec30817n@googlegroups.com> <b4bd89b6-2032-4593-8860-431a128bb87en@googlegroups.com> <dubvahtdfopbrsb256jgijm1vqevhq6iii@4ax.com> <h9tvah9fg42l9e6t82sg2g54g2nlndh2im@4ax.com> <t8p01a$q7d$1@dont-email.me
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3238a30d-1aff-410f-9b36-7b2d0ea6ac39n@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: power supply 1-wire remote sense
From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org
Injection-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 13:48:11 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"UTF-8\"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:672134

On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:19:44 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
John Walliker wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
Ricky wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

snip

It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will

curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, an
d
xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. I
f
I read it correctly, chips manufactured in China might be less affected

than others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas

\"Neon, argon, krypton, and xenon are obtained from air in an air separation unit using the methods of liquefaction of gases and fractional distillation.\"

Everybody liquifies air and sells liquid nitrogen. Elaborating the the plant a bit to pull out the noble gases isn\'t rocket science. Russia and the Ukraine may have tooled up for cheap mass production, but replacing them isn\'t going to be a big deal. It would probably just mean taking old kit out of mothball storage.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Edward Hernandez]

John Dope stated the following in message-id
<svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me>
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=164904625100) posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022
08:01:09 -0000 (UTC):

Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
except insults to this group.

Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope\'s post ratio
to USENET (**) has been 61.9% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.

** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
least 2000 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
1065 have been John Dope \"troll format\" postings.

The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Mon, 20 Jun 2022 22:24:14 -0000 (UTC) in message-id
<t8qs2e$u6p$1@dont-email.me>).

NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
the rules it uses to troll other posters.

aI0yujn9zAQo

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 16:01:11 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 14:13:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
only I could buy them!
John

It\'s really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

I guess I\'ll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable
to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

We\'re exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get.
We\'re also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
because some asshole bought up the world\'s supply of ADA4899s in the
sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to
normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn\'t like
the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)


M**** scrooed us badly, so we had to make 3000 of this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzvv09ymjxwpdtj/Break2.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/50b1af02vcoqjgk/OnBoard.jpg?raw=1


Yup, that\'s the plan for us too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Mouse bites too? That worked great.

Maxim trashed us by discontinuing the MAX9690 comparator, and then
they started failing in the field after about a year. Some sort of
oxide diffusion problem.

To be fair, they \"sampled\" us 3000 of the MAX9691 that we used on the
adapter boards.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[whit3rd]

On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 2:28:08 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:

On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 20:33:55 UTC+1, Piotr Wyderski wrote:

Another trick worth mentioning is to use a 595 with two sufficiently
different tau RC integrators at the inputs. With the built-in Schmitt
triggers these form monostable multivibrators and allow piggy-backing of
the strobe signals on the data line. One can further steal the idea from
the Dallas 1-wire chips and by adding a diode merge the VDD and the data
line. By PWMing the VDD it becomes a truly one-way 1-wire digital link.
Now, if the current consumption of the receiver is known, the receiver
can connect (or not) a digitally controlled load, say 3x the current
consumption for easy discrimination. The transmitter now sees I_load or
3xI-load and a receiver -> transmitter channel is formed with the same
VDD line. You end up with a bidirectional 1-wire link using jellybean
parts at the receiver end. The complexity is in the transmitter.

Something similar has been done in cochlear implants where low
bandwidth telemetry is sent back to the external rf transmitter by
modulating the load .

Even with high voltages, a 4-to-20 mA signal can be workable with a
single wire (and some notion of ground). I\'ve also had occasion to run a VCO
from a follower transistor power supply, taking the frequency as my analog signal by loading
the oscillator\'s output and observing the follower\'s collector current swing.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 12:24:24 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:

Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:

On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:19:44 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
John Walliker wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
Ricky wrote:
whit3rd wrote:

snip

It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, and xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. If I read it correctly, chips manufactured in China might be less affected than others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas

\"Neon, argon, krypton, and xenon are obtained from air in an air separation unit using the methods of liquefaction of gases and fractional distillation.\"

Everybody liquifies air and sells liquid nitrogen. Elaborating the the plant a bit to pull out the noble gases isn\'t rocket science. Russia and the Ukraine may have tooled up for cheap mass production, but replacing them isn\'t going to be a big deal. It would probably just mean taking old kit out of mothball storage.

Anybody can take some words from my reply to John Larkin, stick them in Google\'s search engine, and find ACCURATE information about the subject.

Anybody except John Doe. He hasn\'t done it at all.

He\'s implicitly claiming that my words are inaccurate, but he hasn\'t bothered to tell us why he thinks this. In fact he\'s just an idiot who resents have his idiocy jeered at. Quite how my bland assertion of simple - easily verified - facts could be \"inaccurate\" is hard to imagine, but John Doe doesn\'t understand enough to realise this.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 16:01:11 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 14:13:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It\'s
not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

I\'d not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
only I could buy them!
John

It\'s really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

I guess I\'ll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable
to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

We\'re exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get.
We\'re also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
because some asshole bought up the world\'s supply of ADA4899s in the
sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to
normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn\'t like
the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)


M**** scrooed us badly, so we had to make 3000 of this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzvv09ymjxwpdtj/Break2.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/50b1af02vcoqjgk/OnBoard.jpg?raw=1


Yup, that\'s the plan for us too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Mouse bites too? That worked great.

Yeah, we use that \'castellated holes\' trick reasonably often for that
sort of job. I learned it by examining a TMB (transfer-molded board)
LED package, which uses it. (I used those TMB-packaged LEDs as the
femtoamp multiplexer in my Footprints pyroelectric imagers. (If you call
96 pixels per sensor an image.)

Maxim trashed us by discontinuing the MAX9690 comparator, and then
they started failing in the field after about a year. Some sort of
oxide diffusion problem.

To be fair, they \"sampled\" us 3000 of the MAX9691 that we used on the
adapter boards.

Like the Vogons, Maxim is/was \"not actually evil, but bad-tempered,
bureaucratic, officious, and callous.\"

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com