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This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
John
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter system?
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter system?
It\'s a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
remote sense.
Here\'s the opposite extreme of remote sense:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1
That has some nice features.
On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter system?
It\'s a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
remote sense.
Here\'s the opposite extreme of remote sense:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1
That has some nice features.
I remember the early 80s when Atari used to use sense lines to monitor
the power supply output at the game board.
Many smoked card edge connectors later they gave up on the sense lines.
What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
edge connectors and the plugs.
We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
designed in the 70s and 80s.
I assume your design allows for this - I was just doing some reminiscing...
John :-#)#
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:05:08 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com
wrote:
On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter system?
It\'s a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
remote sense.
What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
edge connectors and the plugs.
We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
designed in the 70s and 80s.
Yes, rs can be connected wrong and make a power supply go nuts. The
dual ADC allows us to compare the output and the rs feedback and see
if they make sense.
John Larkin wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Walliker wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or
mismatch in current-delivery wire resistance does it in.
Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and has
better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this
a motor control, or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter
system?
It\'s a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
remote sense.
Here\'s the opposite extreme of remote sense:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1
That has some nice features.
I remember the early 80s when Atari used to use sense lines to monitor
the power supply output at the game board.
Many smoked card edge connectors later they gave up on the sense lines.
What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
edge connectors and the plugs.
We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
designed in the 70s and 80s.
I assume your design allows for this - I was just doing some
reminiscing...
Path: not-for-mail
From: John Doe <always.look@message.header
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: power supply 1-wire remote sense
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 08:37:35 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <t8k2sf$nna$1@dont-email.me
References: <jqbpahdaj72a4ar3sfban3hgmulttrbfi3@4ax.com> <a8f77647-1b36-4621-87df-264512a2cc27n@googlegroups.com> <fee7c65c-1e2e-4a44-b7be-2f06c609715bn@googlegroups.com> <53ppah1es0nl6tsgblhnjs8f96jvadcgbt@4ax.com> <P7qdnSQX-_EIZzH_nZ2dnUU7-ffNnZ2d@giganews.com
Injection-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 08:37:35 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host=\"6f6224e8e964955c3a1215fa70e2816d\";
logging-data=\"24298\"; mail-complaints-to=\"abuse@eternal-september.org\"; posting-account=\"U2FsdGVkX1+T4MAr2D6ilLYIcbqQtkJyfb2QEApktSA=\"
User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
Cancel-Lock: sha1:r7KGig83sueiMQRqx0EM/rEa9N4=
X-Received-Bytes: 3408
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Walliker wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or
mismatch in current-delivery wire resistance does it in.
Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and has
better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this
a motor control, or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter
system?
It\'s a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
remote sense.
Here\'s the opposite extreme of remote sense:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1
That has some nice features.
I remember the early 80s when Atari used to use sense lines to monitor
the power supply output at the game board.
Many smoked card edge connectors later they gave up on the sense lines.
What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
edge connectors and the plugs.
We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
designed in the 70s and 80s.
I assume your design allows for this - I was just doing some
reminiscing...
Not electronics...
As a kid, I was gifted $60 and spent most of it on pinball. Maybe a nickel
per game. As an adult, played pinball after work, my favorite being
Firepower when quick action flippers came along. Then noticed video games
on the other side of the arcade... After sinking maybe $50 into Asteroids,
played it for hours on one quarter. Then Missile Command. Coincidently,
met an electronics engineer (I had played once in a high school chess
tournament) who recommended separating the fire between the left and the
right screen, left button half way then right button the other half way.
Then could play Missile Command for an hour or two on one quarter. Little
after that.
Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...
The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 3:24:13 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:05:08 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com
wrote:
On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter system?
It\'s a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
remote sense.
What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
edge connectors and the plugs.
We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
designed in the 70s and 80s.
Yes, rs can be connected wrong and make a power supply go nuts. The
dual ADC allows us to compare the output and the rs feedback and see
if they make sense.
I\'d prefer fewer ADCs (thinking of these as feedback elements into an op amp-style
regulator) because of their delays. Ideally, just program a reference, and
apply gain to that, with suitable filter caps on the output. MHz power currents
come from the capacitors, kHz power currents come from the amplifier, and
a single ADC can alternate reading the reference and the output; using three
ADCs seems overcomplex. If you just integrate DC errors (P-I-D style)
using the digital stuff, the delay isn\'t an issue.
As for \'make sense\' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
not wait for a smart digital chip\'s decision, but do something appropriate
with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
that\'s where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).
In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:
Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...
Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope\'s post ratio
to USENET (**) has been 61.2% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.
** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
least 1898 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
989 have been John Dope \"troll format\" postings.
The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:
The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...
And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:
The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...
And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 GMT in message-id
kVjrK.298018$3%%8.92995@usenetxs.com>).
NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.
This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
the rules it uses to troll other posters.
QIMDPZ0HUYw9
On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:
In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:
Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...
Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope\'s post ratio
to USENET (**) has been 61.2% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.
** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
least 1898 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
989 have been John Dope \"troll format\" postings.
The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:
The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...
And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:
The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...
And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 GMT in message-id
kVjrK.298018$3%%8.92995@usenetxs.com>).
NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.
This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
the rules it uses to troll other posters.
QIMDPZ0HUYw9
You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.
Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
you can\'t design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.
Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc2.netnews.com!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx06.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: John Doe <always.look@message.header
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,free.spam
Subject: Re: power supply 1-wire remote sense
Followup-To: alt.test.group
References: <jqbpahdaj72a4ar3sfban3hgmulttrbfi3@4ax.com> <a8f77647-1b36-4621-87df-264512a2cc27n@googlegroups.com> <fee7c65c-1e2e-4a44-b7be-2f06c609715bn@googlegroups.com> <53ppah1es0nl6tsgblhnjs8f96jvadcgbt@4ax.com> <P7qdnSQX-_EIZzH_nZ2dnUU7-ffNnZ2d@giganews.com> <t8k2sf$nna$1@dont-email.me
Injection-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 08:53:36 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host=\"aefae07b417003b570527823e77a9930\"; logging-data=\"29200\"; mail-complaints-to=\"abuse@eternal-september.org\"; posting-account=\"U2FsdGVkX18QBXYPJWay5G0R7zD10mjY5gUD5xOvt6I=\"
User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <kVjrK.298018$3%%8.92995@usenetxs.com
X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 UTC
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 4670
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:671940 free.spam:19113
Off topic troll...
--
John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:
Path: not-for-mail
From: John Doe <always.look@message.header
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: power supply 1-wire remote sense
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 08:37:35 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <t8k2sf$nna$1@dont-email.me
References: <jqbpahdaj72a4ar3sfban3hgmulttrbfi3@4ax.com> <a8f77647-1b36-4621-87df-264512a2cc27n@googlegroups.com> <fee7c65c-1e2e-4a44-b7be-2f06c609715bn@googlegroups.com> <53ppah1es0nl6tsgblhnjs8f96jvadcgbt@4ax.com> <P7qdnSQX-_EIZzH_nZ2dnUU7-ffNnZ2d@giganews.com
Injection-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 08:37:35 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host=\"6f6224e8e964955c3a1215fa70e2816d\";
logging-data=\"24298\"; mail-complaints-to=\"abuse@eternal-september.org\"; posting-account=\"U2FsdGVkX1+T4MAr2D6ilLYIcbqQtkJyfb2QEApktSA=\"
User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
Cancel-Lock: sha1:r7KGig83sueiMQRqx0EM/rEa9N4=
X-Received-Bytes: 3408
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
whit3rd wrote:
John Walliker wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
This ought to work and has some real virtues.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.
Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or
mismatch in current-delivery wire resistance does it in.
Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and has
better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this
a motor control, or heater, or some other milliseconds-don\'t-matter
system?
It\'s a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
remote sense.
Here\'s the opposite extreme of remote sense:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1
That has some nice features.
I remember the early 80s when Atari used to use sense lines to monitor
the power supply output at the game board.
Many smoked card edge connectors later they gave up on the sense lines.
What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
edge connectors and the plugs.
We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
designed in the 70s and 80s.
I assume your design allows for this - I was just doing some
reminiscing...
Not electronics...
As a kid, I was gifted $60 and spent most of it on pinball. Maybe a nickel
per game. As an adult, played pinball after work, my favorite being
Firepower when quick action flippers came along. Then noticed video games
on the other side of the arcade... After sinking maybe $50 into Asteroids,
played it for hours on one quarter. Then Missile Command. Coincidently,
met an electronics engineer (I had played once in a high school chess
tournament) who recommended separating the fire between the left and the
right screen, left button half way then right button the other half way.
Then could play Missile Command for an hour or two on one quarter. Little
after that.
Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
except insults to this group.
The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:
Yet
You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.
Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
you can\'t design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
dtga...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yet
You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.
Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
you can\'t design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.
There is a distinct possibility \"Edward Hernandez\" would\'ve made it into
this group (coming from the electronics repair group where it was jilted)
even if not for me, similar to how \"Bertrand Sindri\" appeared around the
same timeframe (also coming from the electronics repair group) for no
apparent reason.
Obviously I have nothing to do with that troll now flagging what it sees
as off-topic, while copying my ID to do so.
Some regulars here like Bozo and Ricksy have encouraged it, and it\'s
gotten worse. The trolling \"Edward Hernandez\" does here most certainly
isn\'t my fault.
On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
dtga...@gmail.com> wrote:
In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3...@dont-email.me
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:
Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...
Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope\'s post ratio
to USENET (**) has been 61.2% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.
** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
least 1898 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
989 have been John Dope \"troll format\" postings.
The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
sdhn7c$pkp$4...@dont-email.me>:
The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...
And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
sg3kr7$qt5$1...@dont-email.me>:
The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...
And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 GMT in message-id
kVjrK.298018$3%%8.9...@usenetxs.com>).
NOBODY likes the John Doe troll\'s contentless spam.
This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
the rules it uses to troll other posters.
QIMDPZ0HUYw9
You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.
Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
you can\'t design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.
--
Anybody can count to one.
- Robert Widlar
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Edward Hernandez <dtga...@gmail.com> wrote:
trolling
You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.
Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
you can\'t design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.
+1, and I\'d add the need for constant attention seeking. Severe mental
disorder.