Power savers again

[TonyS]

We had this subject a little while ago and I think we came to the
conclusion that those little plugin power factor correction devices
don't work. Meaning they won't reduce you power bill by a measurable
amount. Not for the undistorted current and not for the harmonics.

There is a new player in the market and they even send pamphlets to
private households, asking $199, discounted (RRP $299):
http://www.go4greenenergysmart.com.au/

Would you find it appropriate to alert the ACCC?

Tony

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 6/07/2011 11:53 AM, TonyS wrote:

We had this subject a little while ago and I think we came to the
conclusion that those little plugin power factor correction devices
don't work. Meaning they won't reduce you power bill by a measurable
amount. Not for the undistorted current and not for the harmonics.

There is a new player in the market and they even send pamphlets to
private households, asking $199, discounted (RRP $299):
http://www.go4greenenergysmart.com.au/

Would you find it appropriate to alert the ACCC?

Tony

If you read the blurb under "Learn More" you discover that what they're
claiming is that correcting the power factor and eliminating harmonics
reduces energy losses in the wiring between the meter and the appliance.
They expressly admit that the power meter does not charge for reactive
power.

On that basis the device will reduce power bills - just not by very
much. Their claim of 10% seems improbable in the extreme.

I'll drop a line to the ACCC about it myself, but I know what will
happen, which is that they'll advise me that they've recorded it in
their database, which is code for "they'll do stuff all about it."

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"TonyS"

We had this subject a little while ago and I think we came to the
conclusion that those little plugin power factor correction devices don't
work. Meaning they won't reduce you power bill by a measurable amount. Not
for the undistorted current and not for the harmonics.

** The simple truth is they INCREASE your power bill !!!

Cos the device ( a couple of 10uF caps probably ) is powered all the time
and hence drawing current all the time - and that creates I squared R losses
ALL the time.

There is a new player in the market and they even send pamphlets to
private households, asking $199, discounted (RRP $299):
http://www.go4greenenergysmart.com.au/

Would you find it appropriate to alert the ACCC?

** Been done.

Thing is, there is no evidence from that site that ANY have been sold yet.

The ACCC are not concerned about a scam that is not in operation plus they
need to get a device and have it tested before taking any action.

Kindy find something *worth* worrying about - the choice is endless.


..... Phil

 

[Trevor Wilson]

TonyS wrote:

We had this subject a little while ago and I think we came to the
conclusion that those little plugin power factor correction devices
don't work. Meaning they won't reduce you power bill by a measurable
amount. Not for the undistorted current and not for the harmonics.

There is a new player in the market and they even send pamphlets to
private households, asking $199, discounted (RRP $299):
http://www.go4greenenergysmart.com.au/

Would you find it appropriate to alert the ACCC?

**As Phil and Sylvia have already stated, you are wasting your time. It
might be better to spend your time suggesting to the ACCC to investigate
Tony Abbott's dodgy claims about his CO2 reduction scheme. It has been
comprehensively debunked by every economist in the country.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson"

**As Phil and Sylvia have already stated, you are wasting your time. It
might be better to spend your time suggesting to the ACCC to investigate
Tony Abbott's dodgy claims about his CO2 reduction scheme. It has been
comprehensively debunked by every economist in the country.

** Fuckwit economists are now experts on CO2 reduction ?

Stop it - it hurts when I laugh that hard !!

The government's No 1 climate change expert ( Ross Garnaut) is a fucking
economist too.

Too funny for words.


...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Geoff"

I do recall seeing inside one of those on an overseas trip
earlier this year.

** Really ??????????????????

I remember it had a micro and a reasonable amount of processing
electronics, it is not in my field so I did not take much
notice.

** So it draws power of its own all the time too ?

That will be way more than any I squared R savings could ever be.


..... Phil

 

[Geoff]

TonyS <nospam@mymail.com> wrote in
news:f7adnXxGB-2HXY7TnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@westnet.com.au:

We had this subject a little while ago and I think we came
to the conclusion that those little plugin power factor
correction devices don't work. Meaning they won't reduce
you power bill by a measurable amount. Not for the
undistorted current and not for the harmonics.

There is a new player in the market and they even send
pamphlets to private households, asking $199, discounted
(RRP $299): http://www.go4greenenergysmart.com.au/

Would you find it appropriate to alert the ACCC?

Tony

I do recall seeing inside one of those on an overseas trip
earlier this year.
I remember it had a micro and a reasonable amount of processing
electronics, it is not in my field so I did not take much
notice.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Trevor Wilson"


**As Phil and Sylvia have already stated, you are wasting your time.
It might be better to spend your time suggesting to the ACCC to
investigate Tony Abbott's dodgy claims about his CO2 reduction
scheme. It has been comprehensively debunked by every economist in
the country.


** Fuckwit economists are now experts on CO2 reduction ?

**Nope. I never sauid they were. Economists are expert in economics
(specifically) and how various taxation schemes will affect people's
decision making (generally).

Stop it - it hurts when I laugh that hard !!

The government's No 1 climate change expert ( Ross Garnaut) is a
fucking economist too.

**This is ONE of the government's number one climate experts:

http://www.bom.gov.au/announcements/new_director/biography.shtml

Gaurnaut is not knowledgable about climatology, though he knows to listen to
climatologists when they speak about climatology. Like any sane person
(which leaves Tony Abbott, George Pell, Alan Jones and a handful of others
out in the cold).




--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Geoff]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in
news:97i2vnFtk8U1@mid.individual.net:

"Geoff"


I do recall seeing inside one of those on an overseas trip
earlier this year.

** Really ??????????????????

Yes, and it stuck in my mind cos it was an Aussie company.(
was demoed as an example of good plastic injection moulding
capability)

I remember it had a micro and a reasonable amount of
processing electronics, it is not in my field so I did not
take much notice.


** So it draws power of its own all the time too ?

That will be way more than any I squared R savings could
ever be.


.... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson"

Phil Allison wrote:
"Trevor Wilson"


**As Phil and Sylvia have already stated, you are wasting your time.
It might be better to spend your time suggesting to the ACCC to
investigate Tony Abbott's dodgy claims about his CO2 reduction
scheme. It has been comprehensively debunked by every economist in
the country.


** Fuckwit economists are now experts on CO2 reduction ?

**Nope. I never sauid they were.

** Look ed a hell of a lot like you did.

Stop it - it hurts when I laugh that hard !!

The government's No 1 climate change expert ( Ross Garnaut) is a
fucking economist too.

**This is ONE of the government's number one climate experts:

http://www.bom.gov.au/announcements/new_director/biography.shtml

** Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Climate science is a monstrous misnomer.

Should be called " climate crystal ball gazing".

Gaurnaut is not knowledgable about climatology, though he knows to listen
to climatologists

** Garnaut is a gullible government lackey with ZERO ability to critically
analyse any scientific claims.

The fool is PAID to believe what he is told and not criticise it.

What a fucking scam.



..... Phil

 

[TonyS]

On 6/07/2011 10:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 6/07/2011 11:53 AM, TonyS wrote:
We had this subject a little while ago and I think we came to the
conclusion that those little plugin power factor correction devices
don't work. Meaning they won't reduce you power bill by a measurable
amount. Not for the undistorted current and not for the harmonics.

There is a new player in the market and they even send pamphlets to
private households, asking $199, discounted (RRP $299):
http://www.go4greenenergysmart.com.au/

Would you find it appropriate to alert the ACCC?

Tony

If you read the blurb under "Learn More" you discover that what they're
claiming is that correcting the power factor and eliminating harmonics
reduces energy losses in the wiring between the meter and the appliance.
They expressly admit that the power meter does not charge for reactive
power.

On that basis the device will reduce power bills - just not by very
much. Their claim of 10% seems improbable in the extreme.

I'll drop a line to the ACCC about it myself, but I know what will
happen, which is that they'll advise me that they've recorded it in
their database, which is code for "they'll do stuff all about it."

Sylvia.

Good, I have contacted ACCC and they contacted the company straight
away. GO4GREEN replied immediately with a long email stating how their
device has been tested by a reputable engineering company and its proper
function be irrefutable. I also contacted the marketing company that
distributes the flyer, which I probably shouldn't have done. I could
read some threats between the lines of the go4green response.

Tony

 

[TonyS]

On 6/07/2011 11:24 AM, Geoff wrote:

TonyS<nospam@mymail.com> wrote in
news:f7adnXxGB-2HXY7TnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@westnet.com.au:

[...]

I do recall seeing inside one of those on an overseas trip
earlier this year.
I remember it had a micro and a reasonable amount of processing
electronics, it is not in my field so I did not take much
notice.

I am puzzled as to how an active device is correcting PF and harmonics???

 

[Phil Allison]

"TonyS"

Good, I have contacted ACCC and they contacted the company straight away.
GO4GREEN replied immediately with a long email stating how their device
has been tested by a reputable engineering company and its proper function
be irrefutable.

** Irrelevant that is has some undefined function.

The claim it saves the user money is not demonstrated and highly fraudulent.

I also contacted the marketing company that distributes the flyer, which I
probably shouldn't have done. I could read some threats between the lines
of the go4green response.

** Only shows that they are very nervous.


..... Phil

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 6/07/2011 4:42 PM, TonyS wrote:

On 6/07/2011 11:24 AM, Geoff wrote:
TonyS<nospam@mymail.com> wrote in
news:f7adnXxGB-2HXY7TnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@westnet.com.au:

[...]

I do recall seeing inside one of those on an overseas trip
earlier this year.
I remember it had a micro and a reasonable amount of processing
electronics, it is not in my field so I did not take much
notice.

I am puzzled as to how an active device is correcting PF and harmonics???

Well, it takes more than just processing power. Typically, it'll require
a largish capacitor. But sticking just a capacitor across the wires will
create the very problem it's meant to be solving when the (presumed
inductive) load is absent. So current through the capacitor has to be
controlled.

Sylvia.

 

[Phil Allison]

"kreed"

none of it will make any difference as the carbon is not creating any
problems in the first place.

Julia will just lower your standard of living - for absolutely nothing

Fortunately it seems about 60% of Australians have seen through the
bullshit.


** Only 60% ??

IMO - rabid greenies are thee only supporters of a CO2 based tax.

Thing is, the ALP are beholding to them for any hope of re-election.

So much for democracy - eh ?



..... Phil

 

[who where]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 13:06:11 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

**As Phil and Sylvia have already stated, you are wasting your time. It
might be better to spend your time suggesting to the ACCC to investigate
Tony Abbott's dodgy claims about his CO2 reduction scheme. It has been
comprehensively debunked by every economist in the country.

and there's the problem. Garnaut et al are economists, and that
qualifies them as experts on the environment exactly how?

 

[kreed]

On Jul 6, 1:06 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

TonyS wrote:
We had this subject a little while ago and I think we came to the
conclusion that those little plugin power factor correction devices
don't work. Meaning they won't reduce you power bill by a measurable
amount. Not for the undistorted current and not for the harmonics.

There is a new player in the market and they even send pamphlets to
private households, asking $199, discounted (RRP $299):
http://www.go4greenenergysmart.com.au/

Would you find it appropriate to alert the ACCC?

**As Phil and Sylvia have already stated, you are wasting your time. It
might be better to spend your time suggesting to the ACCC to investigate
Tony Abbott's dodgy claims about his CO2 reduction scheme. It has been
comprehensively debunked by every economist in the country.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

none of it will make any difference as the carbon is not creating any
problems in the first place.
Julia will just lower your standard of living - for absolutely nothing

Fortunately it seems about 60% of Australians have seen through the
bullshit.

 

[kreed]

On Jul 6, 4:25 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Trevor Wilson"

Phil Allison wrote:
"Trevor Wilson"

**As Phil and Sylvia have already stated, you are wasting your time.
It might be better to spend your time suggesting to the ACCC to
investigate Tony Abbott's dodgy claims about his CO2 reduction
scheme. It has been comprehensively debunked by every economist in
the country.

** Fuckwit economists are now experts on CO2 reduction ?

**Nope. I never sauid they were.

** Look ed a hell of a lot like you did.

 Stop it  -  it hurts when I laugh that hard !!

 The government's No 1 climate change expert ( Ross Garnaut) is a
fucking economist too.

**This is ONE of the government's number one climate experts:

http://www.bom.gov.au/announcements/new_director/biography.shtml

**  Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

   Climate science is a monstrous misnomer.

   Should be called " climate crystal ball gazing".

Gaurnaut is not knowledgable about climatology, though he knows to listen
to climatologists

** Garnaut is a gullible government lackey with ZERO ability to critically
analyse any scientific claims.

  The fool is PAID to believe what he is told and not criticise it.

  What a fucking scam.

....  Phil

That sounds about right. Just about everything government does (on
both sides) is a scam
We would be better off without these bastards.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2011-07-06, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

If you read the blurb under "Learn More" you discover that what they're
claiming is that correcting the power factor and eliminating harmonics
reduces energy losses in the wiring between the meter and the appliance.
They expressly admit that the power meter does not charge for reactive
power.

On that basis the device will reduce power bills - just not by very
much. Their claim of 10% seems improbable in the extreme.

They aren't claiming 10% (anymore(?)), just implying it.

--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 6/07/2011 10:02 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2011-07-06, Sylvia Else<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

If you read the blurb under "Learn More" you discover that what they're
claiming is that correcting the power factor and eliminating harmonics
reduces energy losses in the wiring between the meter and the appliance.
They expressly admit that the power meter does not charge for reactive
power.

On that basis the device will reduce power bills - just not by very
much. Their claim of 10% seems improbable in the extreme.

They aren't claiming 10% (anymore(?)), just implying it.

On their home page it says "The EnergySmart is designed and proven to
reduce kWh usage and electricity costs by up to 10% and more in a
standard single phase property including homes, offices, shops and light
commercial premises."

The "up to" is a weasel word, but it seems to me that they still have to
substantiate their claim in the sense of showing that 10% is a number
that it is possible to exceed (to justify "and more") in a standard
single phase property. An empty house with large inductors across the
power points doesn't count.

Sylvia.