Power for a grid dip oscillator.

[Phil Allison]

"John Fields"

There's another certainly less expensive alternative, and that's to
use a capacitor in series with the primary of the dipper's power
transformer in order to use its reactance to drop ~ half the mains
voltage across itself - with very little loss - and put the rest
across the primary of the transformer.

If you're willing to measure, and post, the current into the various
dippers when operating at their rated input voltages, I'll be happy to
show you how to figure out the value of the capacitor.


** The load current for those dippers is gonna be nothing like a sine
wave.

Firstly, there is half wave rectifier in the DC supply - so the iron core
of each AC transformer will be off set creating a highly asymmetrical
current wave.

---
Doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't drive the core into saturation.
---

** But that is exactly what it does.

Then there is the issue of 50Hz operation in lieu of 60Hz - driving the
cores hard into saturation. Normally this produces a spiky current wave
peaking around each zero crossing.

---
That shouldn't be a problem since He's in Oz.
---

** But Oz *is* a 50 Hz environment..

The combination of the above currents will look just horrible on a scope.

Putting a series cap in the primary circuit will not behave predictably.

---
I've got an EICO 710 with 1.2ľF in series with its power transformer's
primary, and it works great!
---

** But you could NOT predict the cap value !!!!!!

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4863/eico710dipperator.png

That * carefully chosen on test * cap is *series resonating* with the
primary inductance of the particular tranny and has double the AC voltage
across it.

This voltage will go dangerously high when the Oscillator switch ( S1) is
open - using a 275VAC rated class X2 mains cap will be essential. A DC
rated cap will fail short and kill the tranny.

The internal DC voltage is gonna be well down too, scope the secondary
voltage and see why.

Massive asymmetry

Bad idea.


.... Phil

 

[John Fields]

On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 21:32:47 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:b53g2vF8lu2U1@mid.individual.net...

"John Fields"

There's another certainly less expensive alternative, and that's to
use a capacitor in series with the primary of the dipper's power
transformer in order to use its reactance to drop ~ half the mains
voltage across itself - with very little loss - and put the rest
across the primary of the transformer.

If you're willing to measure, and post, the current into the various
dippers when operating at their rated input voltages, I'll be happy to
show you how to figure out the value of the capacitor.


** The load current for those dippers is gonna be nothing like a sine
wave.

Firstly, there is half wave rectifier in the DC supply - so the iron core
of each AC transformer will be off set creating a highly asymmetrical
current wave.

Then there is the issue of 50Hz operation in lieu of 60Hz - driving the
cores hard into saturation. Normally this produces a spiky current wave
peaking around each zero crossing.

The combination of the above currents will look just horrible on a scope.

Putting a series cap in the primary circuit will not behave predictably.

The simplest solution is a resistor in series with each heater winding, to
bring the voltage close to 6.3.

I have the feeling there's something dangerously wrong with JF's idea - I
probably tried it myself as a teenager many years ago, all I can remember is
not to try that again!

---
It blew up in your face and you decided not to find out why?

Hardly a stance from which to bolster your new-found "bravado".
---

Thinking about it - its probably one of those hidden gotchas. If you
calculate Xc for normal operating current; it won't get the heaters going
from cold resistance - if you increase the capacitance enough to get the
heaters started; it goes into runnaway as soon as the heaters start to heat
up.

---
"Thinking about it" and offering ignorant conjecture isn't the same as
knowing what you're talking about and offering wise counsel.

For example, tube heaters have a positive thermal temperature
coefficient of resistance, so if they're fed from a series capacitor,
as they heat up and their resistance increases, runaway can't occur.

--
JF

 

[Phil Allison]

"Ian Field"

If you're driving anything with tubes (& heaters) calculating Xc for
normal operating current; wont get the cold (low resistance) heaters to
start glowing - if you increase the capacitance to overcome that hurdle;
it'll runnaway when the heaters star glowing.

** Tube heaters in audio pre-amps are often fed with DC current from a
constant current source.

Warm up time is slower, but nothing strange happens.


.... Phil

 

[David Eather]

On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:08:40 +1000, Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Peter Howard"


I've read a lot of interesting replies with gratitude but your idea of
using a series capacitor sounds the most promising. When I come to think
of it, I have seen LEDs powered direct from mains with a capacitor and a
half wave rectifier.

** Not even faintly relevant.

So, here are some figures I took.
Millen GDO. 115Vac transformer primary current 39mA
Heathkit GDO 115Vac transformer primary current 44mA
Do those sound about right?


** The idea of using a series cap in the AC supply is WRONG !!

To make sure, I tried it with a small ( ie 8VA) 120V, 60Hz transformer
today on the bench. With 120V input and using a mix of resistive and half
wave rectified load with filter electro, it worked as expected with a
current draw of 86mA.

With a 2.2 uF, 250V film cap added in circuit, a BIG problem occurred
due to
*series resonance* with the transformer primary inductance. The primary
voltage INCREASED by 20% and the current draw by 90% !!

With a 1uF cap instead, it was not too much better.

With 0.57uF (0.1 & 0.47) it became possible to apply 240VAC to the
circuit
BUT the secondary voltage wave was now *grossly* asymmetrical causing
the
DC voltage to drop by 45%.

But the worst outcome was with no load (same as with valve removed from
your
dippers ) where the DC voltage on the filter electro rose by 80% and the
0.57uF cap was showing 375VAC across it !!

Substituting a 1.5kohm, 10W resistor in lieu of a film cap restored
conditions close to normal.

So FORGET the series cap idea COMPLETELY !!



... Phil

In case no one else says it (but many will be thinking it)

Nice work Phil!

 

[_defaullt]

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 10:30:29 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

"default"

Another option is to get a low voltage (step down from 240) and employ
the low voltage output to "buck" and in series with the isolation
transformer's primary winding to lower the input from 240 to what
gives you the right numbers.

** Fraid that is wrong.

The OP needs to get down to 110V from 250V.



... Phil

I do realize this, but he already has a step down transformer just not

quite the right ratio to take his 240 to 120 (for some/whatever
reason).

My idea was to employ the low voltage xformer as a buck on the primary
of the auto/isolation transformer he already has, to take it down a
few percent. Efficient compared to a resistor and load doesn't affect
voltage (very much).

 

[Ian Field]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:b561uiFpaiqU1@mid.individual.net...

"Ian Field"


If you're driving anything with tubes (& heaters) calculating Xc for
normal operating current; wont get the cold (low resistance) heaters to
start glowing - if you increase the capacitance to overcome that hurdle;
it'll runnaway when the heaters star glowing.

** Tube heaters in audio pre-amps are often fed with DC current from a
constant current source.

Warm up time is slower, but nothing strange happens.

Very likely - but that's not what I was taking issue with.

Somewhere around the 70s some UK TV setmakers tried "wattless droppers", a
series current limiting capacitor (4.3uF for 300mA heater chain).

The whole point of it was to avoid the expense of a transformer and the HT
had a regular dropper resistor.

I'm sure they would've used a capacitor dropper for the HT too if they could
get away with it.

 

[John Fields]

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:50:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:b561uiFpaiqU1@mid.individual.net...

"Ian Field"


If you're driving anything with tubes (& heaters) calculating Xc for
normal operating current; wont get the cold (low resistance) heaters to
start glowing - if you increase the capacitance to overcome that hurdle;
it'll runnaway when the heaters star glowing.

** Tube heaters in audio pre-amps are often fed with DC current from a
constant current source.

Warm up time is slower, but nothing strange happens.

Very likely - but that's not what I was taking issue with.

Somewhere around the 70s some UK TV setmakers tried "wattless droppers", a
series current limiting capacitor (4.3uF for 300mA heater chain).

The whole point of it was to avoid the expense of a transformer.

---
The force driving engineering is: "Smaller, faster, better, cheaper,
so if an inexpensive cap was found to work as well as an expensive
transformer, why was that bad?
---

and the HT
had a regular dropper resistor.

I'm sure they would've used a capacitor dropper for the HT too if they could
get away with it.

---
"Get away with it" is pejorative and demeans "them" for not finding a
capacitive solution, while earlier on you demeaned those who found a
capacitive solution.
----
--
JF

 

[Ian Field]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:1je0v85t4gkmvb632o6q5q3ajndu2tij0g@4ax.com...

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:50:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:b561uiFpaiqU1@mid.individual.net...

"Ian Field"


If you're driving anything with tubes (& heaters) calculating Xc for
normal operating current; wont get the cold (low resistance) heaters to
start glowing - if you increase the capacitance to overcome that
hurdle;
it'll runnaway when the heaters star glowing.

** Tube heaters in audio pre-amps are often fed with DC current from a
constant current source.

Warm up time is slower, but nothing strange happens.

Very likely - but that's not what I was taking issue with.

Somewhere around the 70s some UK TV setmakers tried "wattless droppers", a
series current limiting capacitor (4.3uF for 300mA heater chain).

The whole point of it was to avoid the expense of a transformer.

---
The force driving engineering is: "Smaller, faster, better, cheaper,
so if an inexpensive cap was found to work as well as an expensive
transformer, why was that bad?
---


and the HT
had a regular dropper resistor.

I'm sure they would've used a capacitor dropper for the HT too if they
could
get away with it.

---
"Get away with it" is pejorative and demeans "them" for not finding a
capacitive solution, while earlier on you demeaned those who found a
capacitive solution.

I didn't say it was - your drug addled brain playing tricks on you again?!

 

[John Fields]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 22:11:05 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:1je0v85t4gkmvb632o6q5q3ajndu2tij0g@4ax.com...
On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:50:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:b561uiFpaiqU1@mid.individual.net...

"Ian Field"


If you're driving anything with tubes (& heaters) calculating Xc for
normal operating current; wont get the cold (low resistance) heaters to
start glowing - if you increase the capacitance to overcome that
hurdle;
it'll runnaway when the heaters star glowing.

** Tube heaters in audio pre-amps are often fed with DC current from a
constant current source.

Warm up time is slower, but nothing strange happens.

Very likely - but that's not what I was taking issue with.

Somewhere around the 70s some UK TV setmakers tried "wattless droppers", a
series current limiting capacitor (4.3uF for 300mA heater chain).

The whole point of it was to avoid the expense of a transformer.

---
The force driving engineering is: "Smaller, faster, better, cheaper,
so if an inexpensive cap was found to work as well as an expensive
transformer, why was that bad?
---


and the HT
had a regular dropper resistor.

I'm sure they would've used a capacitor dropper for the HT too if they
could
get away with it.

---
"Get away with it" is pejorative and demeans "them" for not finding a
capacitive solution, while earlier on you demeaned those who found a
capacitive solution.

I didn't say it was

---
And yet it was.
---

Itbvwas- your drug addled brain playing tricks on you again?!

---
Not as far as I can tell.

So far, what I see is a churl bent on rising to the top of the heap,
not by excellence, but by subterfuge.

--
JF

 

[Ian Field]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:3gi0v81pb4fn1gd5bg261rhvn4t9g8timk@4ax.com...

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 22:11:05 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:1je0v85t4gkmvb632o6q5q3ajndu2tij0g@4ax.com...
On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:50:48 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:b561uiFpaiqU1@mid.individual.net...

"Ian Field"


If you're driving anything with tubes (& heaters) calculating Xc for
normal operating current; wont get the cold (low resistance) heaters
to
start glowing - if you increase the capacitance to overcome that
hurdle;
it'll runnaway when the heaters star glowing.

** Tube heaters in audio pre-amps are often fed with DC current from a
constant current source.

Warm up time is slower, but nothing strange happens.

Very likely - but that's not what I was taking issue with.

Somewhere around the 70s some UK TV setmakers tried "wattless droppers",
a
series current limiting capacitor (4.3uF for 300mA heater chain).

The whole point of it was to avoid the expense of a transformer.

---
The force driving engineering is: "Smaller, faster, better, cheaper,
so if an inexpensive cap was found to work as well as an expensive
transformer, why was that bad?
---


and the HT
had a regular dropper resistor.

I'm sure they would've used a capacitor dropper for the HT too if they
could
get away with it.

---
"Get away with it" is pejorative and demeans "them" for not finding a
capacitive solution, while earlier on you demeaned those who found a
capacitive solution.

I didn't say it was

---
And yet it was.
---

Itbvwas- your drug addled brain playing tricks on you again?!

---
Not as far as I can tell.

So far, what I see is a churl bent on rising to the top of the heap,
not by excellence, but by subterfuge.

Careful - you'll crack the mirror!

 

[John Fields]

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:39:25 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

"John Fields"

There's another certainly less expensive alternative, and that's to
use a capacitor in series with the primary of the dipper's power
transformer in order to use its reactance to drop ~ half the mains
voltage across itself - with very little loss - and put the rest
across the primary of the transformer.

If you're willing to measure, and post, the current into the various
dippers when operating at their rated input voltages, I'll be happy to
show you how to figure out the value of the capacitor.


** The load current for those dippers is gonna be nothing like a sine
wave.

Firstly, there is half wave rectifier in the DC supply - so the iron core
of each AC transformer will be off set creating a highly asymmetrical
current wave.

---
Doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't drive the core into saturation.
---

** But that is exactly what it does.

---
With an injudiciously chosen capacitor, of course.
---

Then there is the issue of 50Hz operation in lieu of 60Hz - driving the
cores hard into saturation. Normally this produces a spiky current wave
peaking around each zero crossing.

---
That shouldn't be a problem since He's in Oz.
---

** But Oz *is* a 50 Hz environment..

---
Indeed. Sorry 'bout that.

For a 60Hz transformer designed to operate on the ragged edge of 60Hz,
then of course it'll saturate at 59.99Hz with its rated voltage across
the primary.

I think there's probably enough slop in most little 60Hz transformers
to allow them to operate at 50Hz without blowing up, but I'm not sure.

What's your experience along those lines, please?

Interestingly - as you noted - there'll be spiky activity which is
non-sinusoidal, so harmonics will be generated which will cause the
flux density to decrease because of the increase in the inductive
reactance of the primary at those frequencies.

Under those conditions might the problem be non-existent?
---

The combination of the above currents will look just horrible on a scope.

---
Well, if non-sinusoidal is horrible, then yes.

However, if the waveform can be interpreted properly, then it becomes
a thing of beauty.

I was going to post some pix, but I'm out of AA cells.

Tomorrow maybe...
---

Putting a series cap in the primary circuit will not behave predictably.

---
I've got an EICO 710 with 0.75ľF in series with its power transformer's
primary, and it works great!
---

** But you could NOT predict the cap value !!!!!!

---
Not without a thorough analysis of the time-varying impedance of the
GDO's mains input, which I chose not to do, in lieu of the simpler
empirical "stick it in and try it" method.
---

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4863/eico710dipperator.png

That * carefully chosen on test * cap is *series resonating* with the
primary inductance of the particular tranny and has double the AC voltage
across it.

---
I checked for resonance at 60Hz with this:

Cs
.. +----[POWER AMP]--[0.75ľF]--[CURRENT XFMR]--+
.. | | | |
..[FUNCTION GEN] [SCOPE] | [GDO]
.. | | | |
.. GND GND GND GND

and found no peak out of the current transformer except at around
8KHz.

I varied Cs over quite a wide range, but the peak out of the current
xfmr stayed pretty close to 8kHz, which lead me to believe that the
GDO's power transformer is self-resonant at about 8 KHz.

I could go further and start taking the GDO apart to determine what's
what, but I'd rather not, in lieu of taking judicious measurements and
relating them to its operation.
---

This voltage will go dangerously high when the Oscillator switch ( S1) is
open

---
It goes to 320VRMS with the switch in the OSC position, and to 336VRMS
with the switch in the DIODE [open] position.
---

using a 275VAC rated class X2 mains cap will be essential. A DC
rated cap will fail short and kill the tranny.

---
With the voltage across the cap being 336VRMS with the switch open,
275VAC is a risky proposition.

I'd go with 600VAC and sleep more comfortably.
---

The internal DC voltage is gonna be well down too, scope the secondary
voltage and see why.

---
I see about 120VDC on the cathode of the rectifier, with about 10V of
ripple.
---

Massive asymmetry

Bad idea.

Phil
---

Yup, but at that time, half-wave rectification was de rigueur for
low-current DC loads.

---
Still is.

--
JF

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Fields"
"Phil Allison"

** The load current for those dippers is gonna be nothing like a sine
wave.

Firstly, there is half wave rectifier in the DC supply - so the iron
core
of each AC transformer will be off set creating a highly asymmetrical
current wave.

---
Doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't drive the core into saturation.
---

** But that is exactly what it does.

---
With an injudiciously chosen capacitor, of course.
---

** FFS the CORE is OFFSET by the DC component in the load current.

So it saturates, once each cycle, all the time !!

Then there is the issue of 50Hz operation in lieu of 60Hz - driving
the
cores hard into saturation. Normally this produces a spiky current wave
peaking around each zero crossing.

---
That shouldn't be a problem since He's in Oz.
---

** But Oz *is* a 50 Hz environment..

---
Indeed. Sorry 'bout that.

For a 60Hz transformer designed to operate on the ragged edge of 60Hz,
then of course it'll saturate at 59.99Hz with its rated voltage across
the primary.

** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency by 20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20% would.

Putting a series cap in the primary circuit will not behave predictably.

---
I've got an EICO 710 with 0.75ľF in series with its power transformer's
primary, and it works great!
---

** But you could NOT predict the cap value !!!!!!

---
Not without a thorough analysis ...

** FFS asshole !!!

Do you READ YOU OWN POSTS ??





.... Phil

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 12:31:00 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

"John Fields"
"Phil Allison"

** The load current for those dippers is gonna be nothing like a sine
wave.

Firstly, there is half wave rectifier in the DC supply - so the iron
core
of each AC transformer will be off set creating a highly asymmetrical
current wave.

---
Doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't drive the core into saturation.
---

** But that is exactly what it does.

---
With an injudiciously chosen capacitor, of course.
---

** FFS the CORE is OFFSET by the DC component in the load current.

So it saturates, once each cycle, all the time !!

---
If that were true, then _all_ half-wave rectifiers would drive their
transformers into saturation.
---

Then there is the issue of 50Hz operation in lieu of 60Hz - driving
the
cores hard into saturation. Normally this produces a spiky current wave
peaking around each zero crossing.

---
That shouldn't be a problem since He's in Oz.
---

** But Oz *is* a 50 Hz environment..

---
Indeed. Sorry 'bout that.

For a 60Hz transformer designed to operate on the ragged edge of 60Hz,
then of course it'll saturate at 59.99Hz with its rated voltage across
the primary.


** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency by 20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20% would.

---
Got an example, with numbers, please?
---

Putting a series cap in the primary circuit will not behave predictably.

---
I've got an EICO 710 with 0.75ľF in series with its power transformer's
primary, and it works great!
---

** But you could NOT predict the cap value !!!!!!

---
Not without a thorough analysis ...

** FFS asshole !!!

---
Ah, there's the Phil we know and love!!!
---

Do you READ YOU OWN POSTS ??

---
Yes, of course.

You obviously misread them.
--
JF

 

[Phil Allison]

John Fields, ASD fucked & Senile Septic Cunt

---
If that were true, then _all_ half-wave rectifiers would drive their
transformers into saturation.
---

** Transformers do have a *LOT* of trouble passing DC current.

You STINKING, AUTISTIC PILE of SHIT !!!!!!!!!!

** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency by
20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20% would.

---
Got an example, with numbers, please?
---

** Take any transformer wall wart and shove it up your fucking ass.

No, better still - try swallowing it instead.

Watching a CUNT like you CHOKE would be such fun.

Massive U-tube hit for sure.




.... Phil

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:24:28 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

John Fields, ASD fucked & Senile Septic Cunt

---
If that were true, then _all_ half-wave rectifiers would drive their
transformers into saturation.
---


** Transformers do have a *LOT* of trouble passing DC current.

You STINKING, AUTISTIC PILE of SHIT !!!!!!!!!!

---
Actually, no one was talking about _passing_ DC, the discussion was
about DC in the secondary (such as caused by half-wave rectification
of the secondary's AC out) causing the transformer to saturate.
---

** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency by
20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20% would.

---
Got an example, with numbers, please?
---

** Take any transformer wall wart and shove it up your fucking ass.

No, better still - try swallowing it instead.

Watching a CUNT like you CHOKE would be such fun.

Massive U-tube hit for sure.

---
I take it that's a "no"...

--
JF

 

[Tim Wescott]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:24:28 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

John Fields, ASD fucked & Senile Septic Cunt

---
If that were true, then _all_ half-wave rectifiers would drive their
transformers into saturation.
---


** Transformers do have a *LOT* of trouble passing DC current.

You STINKING, AUTISTIC PILE of SHIT !!!!!!!!!!



** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency
by 20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20%
would.

---
Got an example, with numbers, please?
---


** Take any transformer wall wart and shove it up your fucking ass.

No, better still - try swallowing it instead.

Watching a CUNT like you CHOKE would be such fun.

Massive U-tube hit for sure.

Goodness, that's almost getting into "call the authorities" territory,
Phil.

Do you have experience with your local authorities? If you're 1/10th as
obnoxious in real life as you are on USENET I'll bet they all know you by
name.

Do take your meds.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Ian Field]

"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.please> wrote in message
news:3J6dnfOKBNH_QW7MnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com...

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:24:28 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

John Fields, ASD fucked & Senile Septic Cunt

---
If that were true, then _all_ half-wave rectifiers would drive their
transformers into saturation.
---


** Transformers do have a *LOT* of trouble passing DC current.

You STINKING, AUTISTIC PILE of SHIT !!!!!!!!!!



** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency
by 20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20%
would.

---
Got an example, with numbers, please?
---


** Take any transformer wall wart and shove it up your fucking ass.

No, better still - try swallowing it instead.

Watching a CUNT like you CHOKE would be such fun.

Massive U-tube hit for sure.

Goodness, that's almost getting into "call the authorities" territory,
Phil.

Do you have experience with your local authorities? If you're 1/10th as
obnoxious in real life as you are on USENET I'll bet they all know you by
name.

Phil's quite an asset when he squares up against the schoolyard bully JF.

[gone to get deckchair & popcorn].

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:41:26 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.please> wrote in message
news:3J6dnfOKBNH_QW7MnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:24:28 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

John Fields, ASD fucked & Senile Septic Cunt

---
If that were true, then _all_ half-wave rectifiers would drive their
transformers into saturation.
---


** Transformers do have a *LOT* of trouble passing DC current.

You STINKING, AUTISTIC PILE of SHIT !!!!!!!!!!



** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency
by 20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20%
would.

---
Got an example, with numbers, please?
---


** Take any transformer wall wart and shove it up your fucking ass.

No, better still - try swallowing it instead.

Watching a CUNT like you CHOKE would be such fun.

Massive U-tube hit for sure.

Goodness, that's almost getting into "call the authorities" territory,
Phil.

Do you have experience with your local authorities? If you're 1/10th as
obnoxious in real life as you are on USENET I'll bet they all know you by
name.


Phil's quite an asset when he squares up against the schoolyard bully JF.

[gone to get deckchair & popcorn].

---
Geez, I guess according to you not being a bully means letting
everyone walk all over you.


--
JF

 

[Ian Field]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:qd98v8dsdlmt3aia062h629l3aqjr70rl3@4ax.com...

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:41:26 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.please> wrote in message
news:3J6dnfOKBNH_QW7MnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:24:28 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

John Fields, ASD fucked & Senile Septic Cunt

---
If that were true, then _all_ half-wave rectifiers would drive their
transformers into saturation.
---


** Transformers do have a *LOT* of trouble passing DC current.

You STINKING, AUTISTIC PILE of SHIT !!!!!!!!!!



** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency
by 20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20%
would.

---
Got an example, with numbers, please?
---


** Take any transformer wall wart and shove it up your fucking ass.

No, better still - try swallowing it instead.

Watching a CUNT like you CHOKE would be such fun.

Massive U-tube hit for sure.

Goodness, that's almost getting into "call the authorities" territory,
Phil.

Do you have experience with your local authorities? If you're 1/10th as
obnoxious in real life as you are on USENET I'll bet they all know you
by
name.


Phil's quite an asset when he squares up against the schoolyard bully JF.

[gone to get deckchair & popcorn].

---
Geez, I guess according to you not being a bully means letting
everyone walk all over you.

No one would walk on you - they wouldn't want to get any on their shoes.

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:01:19 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:qd98v8dsdlmt3aia062h629l3aqjr70rl3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:41:26 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.please> wrote in message
news:3J6dnfOKBNH_QW7MnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:24:28 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

John Fields, ASD fucked & Senile Septic Cunt

---
If that were true, then _all_ half-wave rectifiers would drive their
transformers into saturation.
---


** Transformers do have a *LOT* of trouble passing DC current.

You STINKING, AUTISTIC PILE of SHIT !!!!!!!!!!



** FYI small e-core transformers are commonly operated deep into
saturation - at their RATED frequency. Dropping the supply frequency
by 20%
makes this MUCH worse, just as increasing the supply voltage by 20%
would.

---
Got an example, with numbers, please?
---


** Take any transformer wall wart and shove it up your fucking ass.

No, better still - try swallowing it instead.

Watching a CUNT like you CHOKE would be such fun.

Massive U-tube hit for sure.

Goodness, that's almost getting into "call the authorities" territory,
Phil.

Do you have experience with your local authorities? If you're 1/10th as
obnoxious in real life as you are on USENET I'll bet they all know you
by
name.


Phil's quite an asset when he squares up against the schoolyard bully JF.

[gone to get deckchair & popcorn].

---
Geez, I guess according to you not being a bully means letting
everyone walk all over you.

No one would walk on you - they wouldn't want to get any on their shoes.

---
Well, you certainly seem to have no qualms about trying, so I guess
you relish licking your shoes clean.

--
JF