ping john Larkin Raspberry Pi Pico gets BASIC interpreter...

On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 05:18:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Jul 2023 08:31:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
45q5ai9gs9caoh3e823eq7c1r9q3mp9ef8@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 03 Jul 2023 11:53:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 3 Jul 2023 03:45:00 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
dbfd6633-167a-4461-bb03-5d52c01bd5b0n@googlegroups.com>:

John Larkin wrote:
----------------------------

Basically, if you buy two equal-power-rated transformers, one sold as
120:240 and one sold as 240:120, they are the same transformer.

** But not exactly - see below.

You may have to seriously de-rate the transformer in order to use it that way,
mains frequency transformers under 100VA are the most affected.

A 100 VA transformer is happy moving 100 VA in either direction.

** JL has such simple faith in overly simple models.

I wonder why ?

If you are concerned about reversing a transformer, just try it.


** LOL - of *course* I have and that is why I know about the pitfalls.

I haven\'t heard any real pitfalls so far. What problems did you have?

** Same as everyone else\'s !!

When roles are reversed, the previous 240VAC supply winding supplies less under load.
The difference is about twice the regulation percentage, so 20 to 30% less in some cases.
Imag current ( previously easily supplied by the mains ) goes up by the turns ratio, up to maybe 40 times in a low voltage
winding.

Applying more than rated voltage to the secondary in order to to fix this results in excessive current and overheating the
transformer.

This all derives from how transformer makers engineer * real * transformers and rely on specifying which is the primary
etc
so all specs are met.


That\'s the part I don\'t see. \"Primary\" is an application decision, or
a data sheet convenience.

** It is far more than that, but you will never admit it.

I have wound maybe hundreds of transformers...
reverse use should be no problem with these.
Turns ratio rules.
I also use transformers a lot for what they were not intended for:
here as HV generator for a geiger tube, standard audio 1:10 transformer to make 400 V HV:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/
https://panteltje.nl/pub/conrad_audio_transformer_second_resonance_img_3085.jpg
been on 24/7 now for nine years...
more HV:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/new_transformer_test_setup_img_3153.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_test_transformer_IMG_5142.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultra_sonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_0.6_IMG_5163.JPG

Resonances:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/drone_power_small_core_test_IMG_6114.JPG
This is actually also a transformer, tuned at that:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_IMG_4536.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_dunno_IMG_4537.JPG

Most RF stuff contains transformers, often tuned.
And power, RF heating:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/melting_solder_in_an_metal_olive_bottle_cap_IMG_5191.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/crucible_with_molten_solder_IMG_5439.JPG

Remember winding one for my all transistor TV HV..

Never a problem.
Some people have fear for inductors and transformers.
Know that fear from my first job, we made among other things transformers for power stations
you needed a ladder to climb on those so big.
Big test room, safety lock, big insulators... Many kV.
Almost got killed in that job, on an Navy vessel flightdeck adjusting a transductor.
TV studio was more fun,
more transformers there than you can imagine, audio, video, tape, film, all synchronous...
motors...
So, turns, capacitance, L, C, flyback, saturation, core material, its fun.
Without transformers things are so limited you can do.
Its easy! Just wind them ;-) drive them up rawhide!
?

We make our own transmission-line transformers and, rarely, an exotic
power inductor.

This is easy:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?dl=0

Just buy the windings already made. Sub-nansecond edges and 50-ohm
matched.

Yes I noticed those in your postings before.
How reliable are those connectors?
Click to expand...

They are a pain to mate and especially to un-mate, but are reliable
once seated. In this case, it\'s basically mate once ever, morally
equivalent to soldering.

had some problem with those on some board.
I like potcores :)
Click to expand...

Yes. Assembling this \"transformer\" is easy. I got lucky and found a
cheap pre-assembled cable that makes exactly 5 (as I recall) turns.

This was fun too:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_HV_supply_with_regulator_img_3175.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_HV_supply_componet_side_img_3180.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
Click to expand...

That\'s nice, but I would have Dremeled it. I get confused having parts
on one side and connections on the other, and flipping a board over
constantly, when it\'s all connected to things.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6cq7iwztr5bocpo/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

That\'s what I call an autoflyback, with a DRQ127 dual inductor.
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 04 Jul 2023 06:16:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<2568aitf9htiafigal348t4t0k9s2i4qoo@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 05:18:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Jul 2023 08:31:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
45q5ai9gs9caoh3e823eq7c1r9q3mp9ef8@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 03 Jul 2023 11:53:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 3 Jul 2023 03:45:00 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
dbfd6633-167a-4461-bb03-5d52c01bd5b0n@googlegroups.com>:

John Larkin wrote:
----------------------------

Basically, if you buy two equal-power-rated transformers, one sold as
120:240 and one sold as 240:120, they are the same transformer.

** But not exactly - see below.

You may have to seriously de-rate the transformer in order to use it that way,
mains frequency transformers under 100VA are the most affected.

A 100 VA transformer is happy moving 100 VA in either direction.

** JL has such simple faith in overly simple models.

I wonder why ?

If you are concerned about reversing a transformer, just try it.


** LOL - of *course* I have and that is why I know about the pitfalls.

I haven\'t heard any real pitfalls so far. What problems did you have?

** Same as everyone else\'s !!

When roles are reversed, the previous 240VAC supply winding supplies less under load.
The difference is about twice the regulation percentage, so 20 to 30% less in some cases.
Imag current ( previously easily supplied by the mains ) goes up by the turns ratio, up to maybe 40 times in a low
voltage
winding.

Applying more than rated voltage to the secondary in order to to fix this results in excessive current and overheating
the
transformer.

This all derives from how transformer makers engineer * real * transformers and rely on specifying which is the primary
etc
so all specs are met.


That\'s the part I don\'t see. \"Primary\" is an application decision, or
a data sheet convenience.

** It is far more than that, but you will never admit it.

I have wound maybe hundreds of transformers...
reverse use should be no problem with these.
Turns ratio rules.
I also use transformers a lot for what they were not intended for:
here as HV generator for a geiger tube, standard audio 1:10 transformer to make 400 V HV:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/
https://panteltje.nl/pub/conrad_audio_transformer_second_resonance_img_3085.jpg
been on 24/7 now for nine years...
more HV:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/new_transformer_test_setup_img_3153.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_test_transformer_IMG_5142.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultra_sonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_0.6_IMG_5163.JPG

Resonances:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/drone_power_small_core_test_IMG_6114.JPG
This is actually also a transformer, tuned at that:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_IMG_4536.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_dunno_IMG_4537.JPG

Most RF stuff contains transformers, often tuned.
And power, RF heating:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/melting_solder_in_an_metal_olive_bottle_cap_IMG_5191.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/crucible_with_molten_solder_IMG_5439.JPG

Remember winding one for my all transistor TV HV..

Never a problem.
Some people have fear for inductors and transformers.
Know that fear from my first job, we made among other things transformers for power stations
you needed a ladder to climb on those so big.
Big test room, safety lock, big insulators... Many kV.
Almost got killed in that job, on an Navy vessel flightdeck adjusting a transductor.
TV studio was more fun,
more transformers there than you can imagine, audio, video, tape, film, all synchronous...
motors...
So, turns, capacitance, L, C, flyback, saturation, core material, its fun.
Without transformers things are so limited you can do.
Its easy! Just wind them ;-) drive them up rawhide!
?

We make our own transmission-line transformers and, rarely, an exotic
power inductor.

This is easy:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?dl=0

Just buy the windings already made. Sub-nansecond edges and 50-ohm
matched.

Yes I noticed those in your postings before.
How reliable are those connectors?

They are a pain to mate and especially to un-mate, but are reliable
once seated. In this case, it\'s basically mate once ever, morally
equivalent to soldering.
Click to expand...

I have now some very small GPS modules, and the active antenna is connected with a similar connecor:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/GPS_module_connector_IXIMG_1358.JPG
if you do not connect the antenna right it says:
.....
$BDGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,25.5,25.5,25.5*13
$GPGSV,1,1,00*79
$BDGSV,1,1,00*68
$GNRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,M*4E
$GNVTG,,,,,,,,,M*2D
$GNZDA,,,,,,*56
$GPTXT,01,01,01,ANTENNA OPEN*25 <--------------
....

If conneced right it says:
....
$GNZDA,,,,,,*56
$GPTXT,01,01,01,ANTENNA OK*35
....

Neat solution!
Easy to parse too.


had some problem with those on some board.
I like potcores :)

Yes. Assembling this \"transformer\" is easy. I got lucky and found a
cheap pre-assembled cable that makes exactly 5 (as I recall) turns.

This was fun too:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_HV_supply_with_regulator_img_3175.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_HV_supply_componet_side_img_3180.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg

That\'s nice, but I would have Dremeled it. I get confused having parts
on one side and connections on the other, and flipping a board over
constantly, when it\'s all connected to things.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6cq7iwztr5bocpo/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

That\'s what I call an autoflyback, with a DRQ127 dual inductor.
Click to expand...

Lots of capacitance from the large copper areas to the environment?


I like the .1 inch hole pattern, very easy to fast assemble something,
many modules come with .1 inch spaced contacts:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/GPS_to_USB_module_component_site_IXIMG_1360.JPG

No drilling and dremeling needed, clean desk.
[A
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 04 Jul 2023 12:50:04 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<cpt8aih3eu6g45uepmpm67tg2anevbso1c@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 15:29:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 04 Jul 2023 06:16:31 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
2568aitf9htiafigal348t4t0k9s2i4qoo@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 05:18:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 03 Jul 2023 08:31:06 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
45q5ai9gs9caoh3e823eq7c1r9q3mp9ef8@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 03 Jul 2023 11:53:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 3 Jul 2023 03:45:00 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil Allison
pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
dbfd6633-167a-4461-bb03-5d52c01bd5b0n@googlegroups.com>:

John Larkin wrote:
----------------------------

Basically, if you buy two equal-power-rated transformers, one sold as
120:240 and one sold as 240:120, they are the same transformer.

** But not exactly - see below.

You may have to seriously de-rate the transformer in order to use it that way,
mains frequency transformers under 100VA are the most affected.

A 100 VA transformer is happy moving 100 VA in either direction.

** JL has such simple faith in overly simple models.

I wonder why ?

If you are concerned about reversing a transformer, just try it.


** LOL - of *course* I have and that is why I know about the pitfalls.

I haven\'t heard any real pitfalls so far. What problems did you have?

** Same as everyone else\'s !!

When roles are reversed, the previous 240VAC supply winding supplies less under load.
The difference is about twice the regulation percentage, so 20 to 30% less in some cases.
Imag current ( previously easily supplied by the mains ) goes up by the turns ratio, up to maybe 40 times in a low
voltage
winding.

Applying more than rated voltage to the secondary in order to to fix this results in excessive current and overheating
the
transformer.

This all derives from how transformer makers engineer * real * transformers and rely on specifying which is the
primary
etc
so all specs are met.


That\'s the part I don\'t see. \"Primary\" is an application decision, or
a data sheet convenience.

** It is far more than that, but you will never admit it.

I have wound maybe hundreds of transformers...
reverse use should be no problem with these.
Turns ratio rules.
I also use transformers a lot for what they were not intended for:
here as HV generator for a geiger tube, standard audio 1:10 transformer to make 400 V HV:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/
https://panteltje.nl/pub/conrad_audio_transformer_second_resonance_img_3085.jpg
been on 24/7 now for nine years...
more HV:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/new_transformer_test_setup_img_3153.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_test_transformer_IMG_5142.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/ultra_sonic_anti_fouling_circuit_diagram_0.6_IMG_5163.JPG

Resonances:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/drone_power_small_core_test_IMG_6114.JPG
This is actually also a transformer, tuned at that:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_IMG_4536.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_dunno_IMG_4537.JPG

Most RF stuff contains transformers, often tuned.
And power, RF heating:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/melting_solder_in_an_metal_olive_bottle_cap_IMG_5191.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/crucible_with_molten_solder_IMG_5439.JPG

Remember winding one for my all transistor TV HV..

Never a problem.
Some people have fear for inductors and transformers.
Know that fear from my first job, we made among other things transformers for power stations
you needed a ladder to climb on those so big.
Big test room, safety lock, big insulators... Many kV.
Almost got killed in that job, on an Navy vessel flightdeck adjusting a transductor.
TV studio was more fun,
more transformers there than you can imagine, audio, video, tape, film, all synchronous...
motors...
So, turns, capacitance, L, C, flyback, saturation, core material, its fun.
Without transformers things are so limited you can do.
Its easy! Just wind them ;-) drive them up rawhide!
?

We make our own transmission-line transformers and, rarely, an exotic
power inductor.

This is easy:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?dl=0

Just buy the windings already made. Sub-nansecond edges and 50-ohm
matched.

Yes I noticed those in your postings before.
How reliable are those connectors?

They are a pain to mate and especially to un-mate, but are reliable
once seated. In this case, it\'s basically mate once ever, morally
equivalent to soldering.

I have now some very small GPS modules, and the active antenna is connected with a similar connecor:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/GPS_module_connector_IXIMG_1358.JPG
if you do not connect the antenna right it says:
....
$BDGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,25.5,25.5,25.5*13
$GPGSV,1,1,00*79
$BDGSV,1,1,00*68
$GNRMC,,V,,,,,,,,,,M*4E
$GNVTG,,,,,,,,,M*2D
$GNZDA,,,,,,*56
$GPTXT,01,01,01,ANTENNA OPEN*25 <--------------
...

If conneced right it says:
...
$GNZDA,,,,,,*56
$GPTXT,01,01,01,ANTENNA OK*35
...

Neat solution!
Easy to parse too.


had some problem with those on some board.
I like potcores :)

Yes. Assembling this \"transformer\" is easy. I got lucky and found a
cheap pre-assembled cable that makes exactly 5 (as I recall) turns.

This was fun too:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_HV_supply_with_regulator_img_3175.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_HV_supply_componet_side_img_3180.jpg
https://panteltje.nl/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg

That\'s nice, but I would have Dremeled it. I get confused having parts
on one side and connections on the other, and flipping a board over
constantly, when it\'s all connected to things.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6cq7iwztr5bocpo/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

That\'s what I call an autoflyback, with a DRQ127 dual inductor.

Lots of capacitance from the large copper areas to the environment?

About 15 pF per square inch, which rarely matters. A 50 ohm trace is a
bit over a tenth of an inch wide, which is easy to Dremel.



I like the .1 inch hole pattern, very easy to fast assemble something,
many modules come with .1 inch spaced contacts:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/GPS_to_USB_module_component_site_IXIMG_1360.JPG

We hardly have any DIP parts around any more. Everything is surf
mount.
Click to expand...

I use a lot of ebay modules from China, many have that .1ch spacing interfaces,
liketha tserial to USB module, or the GPS module.
No drilling and dremeling needed, clean desk.
[A

But I LIKE to Dremel.
Click to expand...

OK, have fun!
An other advantage of the .1 inch pertinax boards is that you do not have
to cut it either.
It is 100 x 160 mm, so eurocard format and fits exactly in the alu housings I can buy here:
http://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/step_pic_udp/index.html

ELse you can break it (either by hand or with big pliers) to the size you want
along the holes lines:
http://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/ir_pic/index.html
 
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