PING: HP laserjet experts Help!

On 22/02/2016 4:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 14:59:33 +1100, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

**The fuser appears to be OK, but then, without a manual, I cannot
measure what is inside the fuser to determine what, if anything, may be
faulty. My biggest fear is that the fuser may not be faulty and that it
may be something else. For that, I require a schematic.

Ok, you've decided that you want a new printer and you're not
supplying enough information to even diagnose the alleged fuser
problem. If you can't describe what's wrong with the fuser, could you
at least describe what inspired you to purchase a new printer?
Click to expand...

**Good news bad news time. I now have the service manual for this
device. No useful schematics. Just block diagrams and hundreds of pages
of mechanical drawings and photos. Quite comprehensive in it's own way.
The good news is that I now have a proper interpretation of the fault code.

50.8 = Low fuser temperature (Subthermistor)

Would I be crazy to buy one of these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RM1-2764-RM1-4349-HP-Color-LaserJet-3000-3600-3800-CP3505-Fuser-Unit-220v-/271729961017?hash=item3f445e2839:g:zpcAAOSwnDxUgFp3


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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On 21/02/16 06:22, Trevor Wilson wrote:
I have an ancient HP Color Laserjet 3600N, I picked up a few months
back. Nice printer. So nice, that after a few months, I took the plunge
and bought a bunch of toner cartridges for the thing. As luck would have
it, it has just thrown up a fuser error (50.8). At first, the error was
intermittant, now it is permanent. Questions:

* Service data source?
* Can the fuser be repaired? The cost of a fuser here in Australia is
astronomical?
* Is the fuser a 230VAC one (Australia is a 230VAC nation), or can I
just buy a new fuser (or re-built one) from eBay?
* I assume there is some kind of feedback system (NTC or PTC element)
and that is what has failed, rather than the heater (the fuser still
gets hot)?

Any suggestions will be welcome. After spending almost 300 Bucks on
toner, I am keen to keep this sucker going for another few years. I'd
prefer not to spend 500 Bucks on a new fuser though.
Click to expand...

You are patient. These things are sloooooowww.

Whatever, keep a lookout on the secondhand market for these.

I find the current HP driver that allegedly works on Windows 7 rather
buggy, and as part of a company job I did building a 2012R2 print
server, we decided the best course of upgrade action was to
unfortunately throw out the printers. I bet others came to that conclusion.

--
Adrian C
 
On 23/02/16 09:13, Trevor Wilson wrote:
The good news is that I now have a proper interpretation of the fault code.
50.8 = Low fuser temperature (Subthermistor)
Click to expand...

Can you measure the actual temperature of the fuser and compare it with
what the manual says?

It'd be a shame to buy a whole new fuser if it's only the thermister
that's bad.

Clifford Heath.
 
On 2/21/2016 2:22 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
I have an ancient HP Color Laserjet 3600N, I picked up a few months
back. Nice printer. So nice, that after a few months, I took the plunge
and bought a bunch of toner cartridges for the thing. As luck would have
it, it has just thrown up a fuser error (50.8). At first, the error was
intermittant, now it is permanent. Questions:
Click to expand...

Did you phone/email HP Australia if not US?

Maybe that's why the printer was discarded in the first place....

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On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 08:43:37 +1100, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

On 22/02/2016 4:06 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Ok, you've decided that you want a new printer and you're not
supplying enough information to even diagnose the alleged fuser
problem. If you can't describe what's wrong with the fuser, could you
at least describe what inspired you to purchase a new printer?

**Every reference points towards me buying a new fuser. The cheapest
option will be more than AUS$300.00. And that may not fix the fault. I'd
prefer not to spend a huge chunk of cash on an ancient, but quite
decent, printer. That said, I have just located a service manual for the
3000, 3600 & 3800 (but not the 'N' variant). It is a very large file and
will take some time to complete, but, hopefully, will shed some light on
what is inside the fuser and how to pull the damned thing apart.
Click to expand...

Somehow, I seem to have missed the part where you describe what
inspired you to purchase a new printer and what failure mode you're
experiencing with the fuser. Perhaps it can be repaired. I think
you'll find the rebuild kit I previously mentioned a better and
cheaper alternative at $80:
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hp+color+laserjet+fuser+rebuild>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 09:13:00 +1100, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

**Good news bad news time. I now have the service manual for this
device. No useful schematics. Just block diagrams and hundreds of pages
of mechanical drawings and photos. Quite comprehensive in it's own way.
The good news is that I now have a proper interpretation of the fault code.

50.8 = Low fuser temperature (Subthermistor)
Click to expand...

Thank you for delivering the error message.
<http://www.all-laser.com/a50service/>
I've seen that error message on other model HP printers. In my
experience, it can be anything from a loose connection on the ends of
the ceramic slab heater element, to cracks in the heater element.
Also, caked on toner onto the thermistor temp sensor will cause a low
temp reading. Measure the resistance of the heater element from end
to end and you should see about 15 for 117V and twice that for 220V. I
think I know where I can find a 3800 to measure, or just ask in the HP
forums or FixYourOwnPrinter forums.

This article suggests that it might be low line voltage:
<http://www.fortwayneprinterrepair.com/wordpress/2011/11/06/hp-color-laserjet-3000-3600-3800-and-cp3505-50-1-fuser-error/>

Also see:
<http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/posts/42184>
I'll try to find the unspecified service note, but so far, I'm not
having any luck finding it.

Meanwhile, dig through this mess on 50.1 errors and see what you can
excavate:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=hp+color+laserjet+50.1+fuser+error>

Would I be crazy to buy one of these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RM1-2764-RM1-4349-HP-Color-LaserJet-3000-3600-3800-CP3505-Fuser-Unit-220v-/271729961017?hash=item3f445e2839:g:zpcAAOSwnDxUgFp3
Click to expand...

Good find. I missed that one. Yes, that should work for 220V. I
checked the numbers. Since the rebuild kit does NOT include a heater
element, the replacment from China may be your only reasonable option.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 16:19:46 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Meanwhile, dig through this mess on 50.1 errors and see what you can
excavate:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hp+color+laserjet+50.1+fuser+error
Click to expand...

Sorry. 50.8, not 50.1. That's what happens when I get interrupted:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=hp+color+laserjet+50.8+fuser+error>

Replacing the fuser does not guarantee a fix:
<http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/posts/1001356>

Take a look at these typical HP fuser thermistors:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=HP+fuser+thermistor>
That a tiny thermistor is wrapped in Kapton or something heat
resistant. What happens is that melted toner gets stuck to the face
of the thermistor causing the toner to act as an insulator. The
thermistor reads a lower temperature than what the fuser roller is
actually running, causing the fuser to become excessively hot.
Eventually, the fuser gets too hot and cracks the heater element,
producing an error message. If you're lucky, and catch it before the
heater cracks, just cleaning the ossified toner off the face of the
thermistor is usually sufficient to fix the problem.

This web site offers anything between 20 and 1000 ohms as acceptable
heater resistance for 220V:
<http://mindmachine.co.uk/products/HP_Error_50X.html#diagnosing-fuser-faults>
I still can't find a good target value for the 3600.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 16:39:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

One more and I'll go away and do something useful.

I think the HP Color LaserJet 3600N has three thermistors on the fuser
roller. The main one is in the middle. The other two, at each end of
the fuser roller, are called sub-thermistors. One of them is covered
with toner crud, or has otherwise failed. Be sure to check the fuser
film for mechanical damage.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On 23/02/2016 11:19 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 09:13:00 +1100, Trevor Wilson
trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

**Good news bad news time. I now have the service manual for this
device. No useful schematics. Just block diagrams and hundreds of pages
of mechanical drawings and photos. Quite comprehensive in it's own way.
The good news is that I now have a proper interpretation of the fault code.

50.8 = Low fuser temperature (Subthermistor)

Thank you for delivering the error message.
Click to expand...

**It is the same as the one I supplied in my original post.

http://www.all-laser.com/a50service/
I've seen that error message on other model HP printers. In my
experience, it can be anything from a loose connection on the ends of
the ceramic slab heater element, to cracks in the heater element.
Also, caked on toner onto the thermistor temp sensor will cause a low
temp reading. Measure the resistance of the heater element from end
to end and you should see about 15 for 117V and twice that for 220V. I
think I know where I can find a 3800 to measure, or just ask in the HP
forums or FixYourOwnPrinter forums.
Click to expand...

**As soon as I figure out how to dismantle the fuser, I will check those
things.

This article suggests that it might be low line voltage:
http://www.fortwayneprinterrepair.com/wordpress/2011/11/06/hp-color-laserjet-3000-3600-3800-and-cp3505-50-1-fuser-error/
Click to expand...

**Unlikely in my case.

Also see:
http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/posts/42184
I'll try to find the unspecified service note, but so far, I'm not
having any luck finding it.

Meanwhile, dig through this mess on 50.1 errors and see what you can
excavate:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hp+color+laserjet+50.1+fuser+error

Would I be crazy to buy one of these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RM1-2764-RM1-4349-HP-Color-LaserJet-3000-3600-3800-CP3505-Fuser-Unit-220v-/271729961017?hash=item3f445e2839:g:zpcAAOSwnDxUgFp3

Good find. I missed that one. Yes, that should work for 220V. I
checked the numbers. Since the rebuild kit does NOT include a heater
element, the replacment from China may be your only reasonable option.
Click to expand...

**That was my thinking. I figure that I should probably replace the
heater, if I am overhauling the fuser. Anyway, thanks for all your
assistance. I'll keep you posted.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 16:12:08 +1100, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>**It is the same as the one I supplied in my original post.

Oops. I just went back and looked and there it was. My appologies.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
In sci.electronics.repair Trevor Wilson <trevor@spamblockrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

**Every reference points towards me buying a new fuser. The cheapest
option will be more than AUS$300.00. And that may not fix the fault. I'd
prefer not to spend a huge chunk of cash on an ancient, but quite
decent, printer. That said, I have just located a service manual for the
3000, 3600 & 3800 (but not the 'N' variant). It is a very large file and
will take some time to complete, but, hopefully, will shed some light on
what is inside the fuser and how to pull the damned thing apart.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, there is no difference between the N and non-N
versions, mechanically.

The N version means it's network (ethernet) compatable instead of USB only.

Either it's built in or uses something like the en3700 adapter.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com
 
In article <ag8ncblclgdginpggh5ac6as9jffbmn2k1@4ax.com>,
jeffl@cruzio.com says...
... Measure the resistance of the heater element from end
to end and you should see about 15 for 117V and twice that for 220V.
Click to expand...

Oh, same current and thus twice the power?

Mike.
 
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 12:10:46 -0000, MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>
wrote:

In article <ag8ncblclgdginpggh5ac6as9jffbmn2k1@4ax.com>,
jeffl@cruzio.com says...

... Measure the resistance of the heater element from end
to end and you should see about 15 for 117V and twice that for 220V.

Oh, same current and thus twice the power?
Mike.
Click to expand...

Ooops. Some day, I'll learn to do arithmetic.

Power = Volt^2 / Resistance
For equal power at both line voltages:
P = 117^2 / 15 = 913 watts (cold)
913 = 220^2 / R
R = 220^2 / 913 = 53 ohms

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
On 4/03/2016 9:17 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:

So, any luck on that printer?

Jon
Click to expand...

**Thanks for asking. I've decided to head in a completely different
direction. I've been able to source one of these:

http://au.pcmag.com/hp-laserjet-enterprise-500-color-mfp-m575dn/1374/review/hp-laserjet-enterprise-500-color-mfp-m575dn#

for AUS$400.00. It has full toner cartridges (except one, which is at
20%). It has a full service history (it came from a large corporation,
that has swapped out all it's printers from one section) and was factory
serviced a couple of months ago. I'll be checking print quality and
collecting it next week.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Trevor Wilson wrote:

On 4/03/2016 9:17 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:

So, any luck on that printer?

Jon


**Thanks for asking. I've decided to head in a completely different
direction. I've been able to source one of these:

http://au.pcmag.com/hp-laserjet-enterprise-500-color-mfp-
m575dn/1374/review/hp-laserjet-enterprise-500-color-mfp-m575dn#

for AUS$400.00. It has full toner cartridges (except one, which is at
20%). It has a full service history (it came from a large corporation,
that has swapped out all it's printers from one section) and was factory
serviced a couple of months ago. I'll be checking print quality and
collecting it next week.
Click to expand...
Well, that may be a good plan if you really need a color laser. I got a
color laser off the loading dock at work, it had a sticky clutch solenoid,
and after fixing that, it generally works. But, the print quality is
mediocre, and it uses a HUGE amount of toner every time you turn it on, or
if it has sat for more than 30 minutes, it has to "recalibrate".

But, I've had good luck fixing the 2 monochrome printers we have here.

Jon
 
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