Pet hates ?

[Allodoxaphobia]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 23:02:48 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:

California is strange..

It's only January and we have
the winner for The Understatement Of 2011.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4d3b9067$0$2378$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...

On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:

He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few
miles down the Interstate from LA

OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:

Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call them
that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as "turnpikes" in
some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even know what an
"interstate" is ...

In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in usage
between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San Francisco and
thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a road (highway,
interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road number, as in
"the 405", "the 101", etc.

But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get down
to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who refer
to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)


--

Thank you for that enlightening dissertation ! However, as you say, it's not
actually *wrong* to call them Interstates - for that is what they are, as
evidenced by their designation "I" xxx - just 'not quite right' in your neck
of the woods. It's been a while since I was last in California, but I'm sure
I recall the I5 being referred to as 'The Interstate' by the guys in the
factory that I used to visit. Maybe in 20 years, or whatever it is now, the
usage of the term has changed. I could be wrong, but I thought that the big
road running just to the west of the Las Vegas strip was referred to locally
as 'The Interstate' or 'The Freeway', likewise the I75 and I95 in Florida,
although I have seen this term 'turnpike' over the that side of the country.
Perhaps Michael can enlighten us on the usage of the words over there in
'gator country ... ?

Arfa

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:

He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few miles
down the Interstate from LA

OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:

Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call
them that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as
"turnpikes" in some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even
know what an "interstate" is ...

In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in
usage between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San
Francisco and thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a
road (highway, interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road
number, as in "the 405", "the 101", etc.

But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get
down to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who
refer to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)

The midwest and southeast do call them either Interstate or
abbreviate it to 'I'. This is a good thing, since they run a thousand
miles or more. In fact, I lived about 15 miles from I-75 in Ohio. It's
about the same distance from me, in Florida. I can't recall anyone not
using this terminology in the 20+ years I've lived here, or the 30 +
years I lived in Ohio. The only place I've been with no Interstate
Highway was in Alaska. Everywhere else, they used the same terminology.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Michael Kennedy wrote:

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4d3b9067$0$2378$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:

He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few
miles down the Interstate from LA

OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:

Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call them
that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as "turnpikes" in
some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even know what an
"interstate" is ...

In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in usage
between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San Francisco and
thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a road (highway,
interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road number, as in
"the 405", "the 101", etc.

But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get down
to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who refer
to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

California is strange..

Why do you think it's called 'The land of Fruits & Nuts'?


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Arfa Daily wrote:

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4d3b9067$0$2378$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:

He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few
miles down the Interstate from LA

OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:

Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call them
that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as "turnpikes" in
some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even know what an
"interstate" is ...

In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in usage
between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San Francisco and
thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a road (highway,
interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road number, as in
"the 405", "the 101", etc.

But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get down
to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who refer
to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)


--

Thank you for that enlightening dissertation ! However, as you say, it's not
actually *wrong* to call them Interstates - for that is what they are, as
evidenced by their designation "I" xxx - just 'not quite right' in your neck
of the woods. It's been a while since I was last in California, but I'm sure
I recall the I5 being referred to as 'The Interstate' by the guys in the
factory that I used to visit. Maybe in 20 years, or whatever it is now, the
usage of the term has changed. I could be wrong, but I thought that the big
road running just to the west of the Las Vegas strip was referred to locally
as 'The Interstate' or 'The Freeway', likewise the I75 and I95 in Florida,
although I have seen this term 'turnpike' over the that side of the country.
Perhaps Michael can enlighten us on the usage of the words over there in
'gator country ... ?

The 'turnpike' is a toll road. http://www.floridasturnpike.com/


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"Allodoxaphobia" <knock_yourself_out@example.net> wrote in message
news:slrnijonj3.2as3.knock_yourself_out@shell.config.com...

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 23:02:48 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:

California is strange..

It's only January and we have
the winner for The Understatement Of 2011.

I was trying to have some restraint and hold back.

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e4OdnaoKnYYAs6XQnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

JW wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 05:29:16 -0600 "Mark Zacharias"
mark_zacharias@sbcglobal.net> wrote in Message id:
4d381c8b$0$19215$c3e8da3$aae71a0a@news.astraweb.com>:

Packing peanuts.

There's a good one. Especially when the humidity is very low, and the
peanuts are all broken up in pieces!


Low humidity is rarely a problem in Florida.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Yeah.. One time I was going to paint something. The can of spray paint said
to only use it in 50% or less humidity. I laughed when I read that and
thought there must be less than 20 days a year that would have low enough
humidity to paint this thing..

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Michael Kennedy wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e4OdnaoKnYYAs6XQnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

JW wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 05:29:16 -0600 "Mark Zacharias"
mark_zacharias@sbcglobal.net> wrote in Message id:
4d381c8b$0$19215$c3e8da3$aae71a0a@news.astraweb.com>:

Packing peanuts.

There's a good one. Especially when the humidity is very low, and the
peanuts are all broken up in pieces!


Low humidity is rarely a problem in Florida.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Yeah.. One time I was going to paint something. The can of spray paint said
to only use it in 50% or less humidity. I laughed when I read that and
thought there must be less than 20 days a year that would have low enough
humidity to paint this thing..

That's when you dig out the heat lamps to dry the surface, before you
paint.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 04:37:26 -0800 (PST), b
<reverend_rogers@yahoo.com> wrote:

Pet hates: excessive amounts of screws holding covers of TVs etc.
together. this seems to have got worse with flat panels.Often you
spend as much /more time assembling and re-asembling than the repair!
-B

Screws are fine. I can live with having too many screws because half
of them are usually stripped out and the remainder hold things
together. What bugs me are snap together clamshell cases, such as LCD
monitors and TV's, where you have to remove a mess of screws *AND* pry
the case apart. While snap together plastic is probably easier to
assemble because it doesn't require much fixturing to position the
robotic screwdriver, it does suggest that the case was never intended
to be opened or the unit repaired.

I recently repaired a Yamaha P70 electric piano. I didn't count, but
I'll guess about 60 large "sheet metal" type screws holding it
together. I don't use an electric screwdriver, but this is one time
that I wish I owned one. Even with switching hands, my hands ached
after I as done. The problem with such "sheet metal" screws is that
they offer high frictional resistance on every turn, while more
conventional screw threads, only offer high resistance when tight (or
smeared with thread lock).

My guess is the large number of screws was to prevent mechanical
resonances in the plastic case or to keep them from falling out from
vibrations. Still, metal thread inserts, screw threads, and steel nut
plates, would have been much easier to handle.

On the silicon grease front, I agree with most of the comments. Thin
works much better than globs of silicon grease. One should remember
that the purpose of silicon grease is NOT to bridge gaps. It's to
fill in the surface roughness, groves, and crevasses. Most of the
heat transfer is metal to metal contact, not through the silicon
grease.

In a past life, I used to design marine radios. The problem was that
the power xsistor packages of the day (1970's) were generally thermal
disasters. Either there was insufficient contact area to obtain
sufficiently low thermal resistance, or they were not flat. I solved
the first by building pyramid like structures of copper washers to act
as a heat spreader. I solved the latter by polishing the mounting
base of the power transistors on fine emery cloth. I hated to polish
away the gold plating, but that's what it took to get the heat out. I
made numerous tests and measurements trying to determine the optimum
amount of silicon grease, and eventually concluded that ultra thin is
best. Instructions were to smear a tiny amount onto the area, and
then wipe ALL of it off with a plastic scraper. What remained was
silicon grease in the remaining surface roughness, which was all that
was necessary.

I recently repaired an IFR-1500 service monitor. The power supply
section was intermittent. The 0.062 aluminum power supply case, was
butted up against the large aluminum heat sink that covered the entire
rear panel. In between was a huge amount of silicon grease. The
sandwich was held together by two large 10-24 screws, which probably
explains the silicon grease overdose. Two screws is not going to bend
the aluminum case so that it lays flat. So they tried to fill in the
lack of flatness with silicon grease. That doesn't work.

It took me considerable effort and alcohol to clean up the mess, but I
still managed to get it all over everything on the bench. After the
repair (large copper wires on torroids were not soldered properly), I
reassembled it with only a little silicon grease around the two large
screws, and left the rest to it's own devices. Works fine with no
obvious overheating (checked with an IR thermometer and thermocouple
probe). My guess is all that silicon grease did nothing useful.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 01:50:24 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4d381c8b$0$19215$c3e8da3$aae71a0a@news.astraweb.com...
People begging me to work on stuff which I used to turn away, but now have
to take in because business is slow.
Mark Z.

Yep. Amen to that one ...
Arfa

Not much of a change here. Most of my work is fixing computers,
networks, and printers. That part of the business has decreased
substantially. However, I've always done 2-way radio, audio,
electronic music, cell phones, home theater, monitors, power tools,
test equipment, HP calculators, kids toys, and whatever the customers
need fixing. The only recent change is that I'm doing less computers
and more of the other stuff. However, I don't think it has much to do
with the global economic situation. The preference of the American
consumer for cheap junk, usually made in China, has displaced most of
the higher reliability, but also higher priced, better quality
products. After discovering that the cheap junk replacement is no
better than the original cheap junk device that had failed, they start
looking to me to help them keep the cheap junk alive. It's possible,
but since they'll often pay more than the device is worth just so that
they don't have to deal with the vendor, I can make money on such
repairs. Often, nothing more than a thorough cleaning is all that's
required. I also fix bicycles, chain saws, and optics, but since I
don't really know what I'm doing, I avoid major challenges. If I had
concentrated solely on computer repair, I would have been in serious
financial trouble, but by offering my services to fix almost anything
(i.e. diversification), a drop in one area, won't wipe out the
business.

Oh, there is one area that I won't do any more. I'm no longer able to
the construction work necessary to run CAT5 all over a building. I
contract that out to younger and more suicidal kids, who are usually
grateful for the work and money.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[John Robertson]

Arfa Daily wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ih7bqe$ajf$1@news.eternal-september.org...
I once got in a lot of trouble with my boss when I was young and worked
for
a U.S. based company. At that time, I didn't understand that there was a
big
difference between British 'tongue-in-cheek' humour, and the much more
direct U.S. type. I was talking on the phone to one of the designers
of a
piece of equipment that we sold here in the UK, and asked the guy if he
could arrange to send me some screws for the cabinet, as they were a
thread
that we didn't readily get over here. He asked if I knew exactly what
size
they were so I replied, quick as a flash, thinking that I was being
funny,
"I guess that they are round about 3/16ths APF." "What's APF ?" the guy
asked. "American Piss Fit", said I ...

Stony silence on the phone. Half an hour later, I was summoned to the
boss's
office. Apparently, the guy had been really offended by this, thinking
that
it was a slur on what he considered to be good American engineering, and
had
called my boss to complain about me. Just goes to show how easily
offence
can be caused between nations, even when they speak what's basically the
same language ...

It's hard /not/ to interpret such a description as an intentional
insult. I
can't imagine what it actually means -- in any innocuous sense, anyway.



There ya go then ! Anyone from the UK would see it as a quick-fire
throw-away line, and would laugh at it. It's sort of intended to be
'barbed', but not in a malicious way. It's a very hard to describe form
of humour that is quite prevalent over here.

Arfa

We'ed only be confused in Canada. We have to deal with both UK and US
humour....

John ;-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[John Robertson]

Michael Kennedy wrote:

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4d3be2e9$0$4737$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
On 1/23/2011 12:02 AM Smitty Two spake thus:

In article <4d3b9067$0$2378$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get
down to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who
refer to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)
I don't think Arfa is going to "blend" whether he uses your terminology
or not, and I doubt that's his objective. But you wrote an awful lot of
words without using "freeway," which is what we call the 101 here, and is
the most common word for "interstate highway" throughout the midwest, as
well.
Yup, my bad; thought of it shortly after clicking "Send", of course.

BTW, everyone I know in LA doesn't use numbers at all, but names that are
meaningless to outsiders even if they have a map: "Ventura freeway,"
"Hollywood freeway," "Pasadena freeway," etc.
Forgot about that too. Our freeways also have names, but they're (mostly)
unused: one occasionally hears 880 called "the Nimitz" or 80 "the
Eastshore", but more often not.

Then of course there's Johnny Carson's old favorite, the "Slauson Cutoff"
...


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.



In Florida many people call the "Interstate Highways" by its number.. For
example Interstate 4 is just I4. Other examples are I95 I75.. But it is
perfectly normal to hear take 75 or Take 95, although take 4 seems a bit
rare.

We have a turnpike as well. It refers to the first large toll road in
Florida.. (I believe it was the first.) Because it's officail name is The
Florida Turnpike or The Ronald Regan Turnpike.. It has 2 names..

Anyhow, I have wasted enough of your time now..

Mike

Here in BC, Canada and (it appears) the Pacific Northwest states the US
highways are called Ixx - I5 being the main north-south one.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:21:21 -0800, David Nebenzahl
<nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get
down to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who
refer to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)

Ahem. I beg to differ slightly. In the People's Republic of Santa
Cruz, it's called "Highway 9", "Highway 17", and "Highway 1". They're
never referred to by their correct name of "US Route 9", "State Route
17", and "Calif State Route 1".

In Smog Angeles, Hwy 1 is called "Pacific Coast Highway", State Route
90 is the "Richard M. Nixon Freeway", and Interstate 5 is called the
"San Diego Freeway".

When I lived over the hill in San Jose in the late 1970's, the
numerical designations were rarely used. Interstate 880 was called
"the Nimitz". These days, nobody remembers Admiral Nimitz so it has
become "880".

Caltrans seems to be making a concerted and expensive effort to add to
the confusion by numbering all the freeway exits and onramps.
Unfortunately, they didn't plan it very well, so some of the numbers
are already out of sequence and there are postfixes such as "Exit
11c". I have yet to hear anyone refer to a specifically named exit by
its numerical equivalent.

When one visits the People's Republic of Santa Cruz, the point of
entry is what is called "the fish-hook" because of a 270 degree tight
turn. It's been greatly improved by an expensive rebuild 4 years ago,
but it still offers a fair approximation of a roller coaster ride:
<http://we.got.net/~mapman/streets/SantaCruz/Fishhook/fishhook.html>
My office is adjacent to this abomination. I would estimate we lose
one large truck to the tight turns every 2 weeks.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[David Nebenzahl]

On 1/23/2011 10:00 PM John Robertson spake thus:

Michael Kennedy wrote:

In Florida many people call the "Interstate Highways" by its number.. For
example Interstate 4 is just I4. Other examples are I95 I75.. But it is
perfectly normal to hear take 75 or Take 95, although take 4 seems a bit
rare.

Here in BC, Canada and (it appears) the Pacific Northwest states the US
highways are called Ixx - I5 being the main north-south one.

Well, they're actually called that everywhere in the US, at least
officially and on maps. But what do *people* in that region actually
call them? I thought that's what we were talking about here.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

 

[N_Cook]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:f21qj69nksr8pclj13qq54ukv07uhrtb8k@4ax.com...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 04:37:26 -0800 (PST), b
reverend_rogers@yahoo.com> wrote:

Pet hates: excessive amounts of screws holding covers of TVs etc.
together. this seems to have got worse with flat panels.Often you
spend as much /more time assembling and re-asembling than the repair!
-B

Screws are fine. I can live with having too many screws because half
of them are usually stripped out and the remainder hold things
together. What bugs me are snap together clamshell cases, such as LCD
monitors and TV's, where you have to remove a mess of screws *AND* pry
the case apart. While snap together plastic is probably easier to
assemble because it doesn't require much fixturing to position the
robotic screwdriver, it does suggest that the case was never intended
to be opened or the unit repaired.

I recently repaired a Yamaha P70 electric piano. I didn't count, but
I'll guess about 60 large "sheet metal" type screws holding it
together. I don't use an electric screwdriver, but this is one time
that I wish I owned one. Even with switching hands, my hands ached
after I as done. The problem with such "sheet metal" screws is that
they offer high frictional resistance on every turn, while more
conventional screw threads, only offer high resistance when tight (or
smeared with thread lock).

My guess is the large number of screws was to prevent mechanical
resonances in the plastic case or to keep them from falling out from
vibrations. Still, metal thread inserts, screw threads, and steel nut
plates, would have been much easier to handle.

On the silicon grease front, I agree with most of the comments. Thin
works much better than globs of silicon grease. One should remember
that the purpose of silicon grease is NOT to bridge gaps. It's to
fill in the surface roughness, groves, and crevasses. Most of the
heat transfer is metal to metal contact, not through the silicon
grease.

In a past life, I used to design marine radios. The problem was that
the power xsistor packages of the day (1970's) were generally thermal
disasters. Either there was insufficient contact area to obtain
sufficiently low thermal resistance, or they were not flat. I solved
the first by building pyramid like structures of copper washers to act
as a heat spreader. I solved the latter by polishing the mounting
base of the power transistors on fine emery cloth. I hated to polish
away the gold plating, but that's what it took to get the heat out. I
made numerous tests and measurements trying to determine the optimum
amount of silicon grease, and eventually concluded that ultra thin is
best. Instructions were to smear a tiny amount onto the area, and
then wipe ALL of it off with a plastic scraper. What remained was
silicon grease in the remaining surface roughness, which was all that
was necessary.

I recently repaired an IFR-1500 service monitor. The power supply
section was intermittent. The 0.062 aluminum power supply case, was
butted up against the large aluminum heat sink that covered the entire
rear panel. In between was a huge amount of silicon grease. The
sandwich was held together by two large 10-24 screws, which probably
explains the silicon grease overdose. Two screws is not going to bend
the aluminum case so that it lays flat. So they tried to fill in the
lack of flatness with silicon grease. That doesn't work.

It took me considerable effort and alcohol to clean up the mess, but I
still managed to get it all over everything on the bench. After the
repair (large copper wires on torroids were not soldered properly), I
reassembled it with only a little silicon grease around the two large
screws, and left the rest to it's own devices. Works fine with no
obvious overheating (checked with an IR thermometer and thermocouple
probe). My guess is all that silicon grease did nothing useful.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com

I suspect we are as engineers are just as likely to be mislead by
manufacturer's claims as joe public and general ads. I could not convince
myself that silipads were better than mica (no patents so litterally dirt
cheap) - so experiment called for. These days I own a matchbox size remote
IR pyrometer and would use that to compare device body temps in before and
after situations , not fingertips

Mica versus Silicone pad insulators
I was not convinced that for an existing used amp with 4x TOP66 power output
devices that the silipads were better than mica.
Each of the 4 white insulating pads had shrunk about 5mm at the tops
(hottest)
compared to bottoms , ruffling the original outer edges, heat damage ?.
I'm wondering if they can chemically change over time and/or excessive
temperature , downgrading to be more of a thermal insulator.
They are not discoloured or hardened or anything different in the
ex-compressed area by sight or flexing, just permanently deformed , the
ruffling is permanent.
I replaced all 4 with mica and thin films of thermal grease.
Before doing so I powered up the amp with 400 Hz continuous sine giving 20
watts in a dummy load. No fan cooling for this amp, just
convection/radiation.
Laid a brass barrel protected thermometer on the heatsink and took
measurements. Stabilised at 33 deg C over ambient after 50 minutes.
Replaced with mica and redid the load test.
For same ambient , same testing position/attitude, power in load etc it now
took 30 minutes to stabilise at plus 32 deg C over ambient.
More graphically , but less scientific, - the finger test.
After half an hour of heating with the mica setup I could hold a fingertip
on each tranny for about 5 seconds before finding it uncomfortable.
Previously half a second of fingertip touch was enough.
I think I will rely on the evidence of my own observations and not
performance tables produced by the manufacturer's with an obvious vested
interest.
I've no reason to believe the original silipads had aged, been affected by
WD40 or anything.
I will assume they are , all manufacturers, all generically bad until a
similar personally conducted experiment, in a real situation, proves to me
to be otherwise.

 

[N_Cook]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:f21qj69nksr8pclj13qq54ukv07uhrtb8k@4ax.com...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 04:37:26 -0800 (PST), b
reverend_rogers@yahoo.com> wrote:

Pet hates: excessive amounts of screws holding covers of TVs etc.
together. this seems to have got worse with flat panels.Often you
spend as much /more time assembling and re-asembling than the repair!
-B

Screws are fine. I can live with having too many screws because half
of them are usually stripped out and the remainder hold things
together. What bugs me are snap together clamshell cases, such as LCD
monitors and TV's, where you have to remove a mess of screws *AND* pry
the case apart. While snap together plastic is probably easier to
assemble because it doesn't require much fixturing to position the
robotic screwdriver, it does suggest that the case was never intended
to be opened or the unit repaired.

I recently repaired a Yamaha P70 electric piano. I didn't count, but
I'll guess about 60 large "sheet metal" type screws holding it
together. I don't use an electric screwdriver, but this is one time
that I wish I owned one. Even with switching hands, my hands ached
after I as done. The problem with such "sheet metal" screws is that
they offer high frictional resistance on every turn, while more
conventional screw threads, only offer high resistance when tight (or
smeared with thread lock).

My guess is the large number of screws was to prevent mechanical
resonances in the plastic case or to keep them from falling out from
vibrations. Still, metal thread inserts, screw threads, and steel nut
plates, would have been much easier to handle.

On the silicon grease front, I agree with most of the comments. Thin
works much better than globs of silicon grease. One should remember
that the purpose of silicon grease is NOT to bridge gaps. It's to
fill in the surface roughness, groves, and crevasses. Most of the
heat transfer is metal to metal contact, not through the silicon
grease.

In a past life, I used to design marine radios. The problem was that
the power xsistor packages of the day (1970's) were generally thermal
disasters. Either there was insufficient contact area to obtain
sufficiently low thermal resistance, or they were not flat. I solved
the first by building pyramid like structures of copper washers to act
as a heat spreader. I solved the latter by polishing the mounting
base of the power transistors on fine emery cloth. I hated to polish
away the gold plating, but that's what it took to get the heat out. I
made numerous tests and measurements trying to determine the optimum
amount of silicon grease, and eventually concluded that ultra thin is
best. Instructions were to smear a tiny amount onto the area, and
then wipe ALL of it off with a plastic scraper. What remained was
silicon grease in the remaining surface roughness, which was all that
was necessary.

I recently repaired an IFR-1500 service monitor. The power supply
section was intermittent. The 0.062 aluminum power supply case, was
butted up against the large aluminum heat sink that covered the entire
rear panel. In between was a huge amount of silicon grease. The
sandwich was held together by two large 10-24 screws, which probably
explains the silicon grease overdose. Two screws is not going to bend
the aluminum case so that it lays flat. So they tried to fill in the
lack of flatness with silicon grease. That doesn't work.

It took me considerable effort and alcohol to clean up the mess, but I
still managed to get it all over everything on the bench. After the
repair (large copper wires on torroids were not soldered properly), I
reassembled it with only a little silicon grease around the two large
screws, and left the rest to it's own devices. Works fine with no
obvious overheating (checked with an IR thermometer and thermocouple
probe). My guess is all that silicon grease did nothing useful.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Another goo production failing , on a 1 to 2 yearold Fender Amp on my bench
at the moment. Uses intermediary Al block between immediate o/p h/s plate
and chassis. White goo on both surfaces is still as placed, not splurged
out. Failure to fettle/de-burr the post machining raised rims around the
machined holes so acting as thin washers so heat just going through the 3
bolts not body of Al. Amp failure nothing to do with this poor heatsinking

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Oh, there is one area that I won't do any more. I'm no longer able to
the construction work necessary to run CAT5 all over a building. I
contract that out to younger and more suicidal kids, who are usually
grateful for the work and money.

Jeff, that's just because you haven't figured out how to charge your customers
to "run" wireless connections.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Oh, there is one area that I won't do any more. I'm no longer able to
the construction work necessary to run CAT5 all over a building. I
contract that out to younger and more suicidal kids, who are usually
grateful for the work and money.

Jeff, that's just because you haven't figured out how to charge your customers
to "run" wireless connections.

Some people don't want wireless for security, and other reasons. it's
ok for a small home network, but not a large business with a lot of
computers.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:49:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
<gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Oh, there is one area that I won't do any more. I'm no longer able to
the construction work necessary to run CAT5 all over a building. I
contract that out to younger and more suicidal kids, who are usually
grateful for the work and money.

Jeff, that's just because you haven't figured out how to charge your customers
to "run" wireless connections.
Geoff.

I don't get many calls to "install" a wireless router or bridge.
However, almost all my wireless work is cleaning up the mess made by
someone else. Commodity wireless is sufficiently simple that almost
anyone can do it if they follow instructions. Making the decision
whether wireless is appropriate is not so simple. Wireless for
laptops, PDA's, game consoles, some printers, and wi-fi phones are
appropriate. Tivo, Netflix, Blue-Ray players, desktops, and other
high bandwidth devices are not. The nice part of this cleanup type of
work is I can charge almost any fair price. I can't do that on an
initial install.

Incidentally, the reason I didn't want to run wires any more is that I
was taking statins to reduce cholesterol for the last 8 years. The
side effect was ever increasing back aches. They were tolerable for
the first 5 years, but continued to get worse until I was unable to do
many things. I stopped taking statins about a year ago, and had to
wait 6 months for the back aches to mostly go away. I'm now trying to
get back into shape so I can again crawl around under houses running
wires. Meanwhile, it's a good excuse to not get dirty.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:724qj6dm5bqhhs0jnuslhmshppfsnf1gjm@4ax.com...

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:21:21 -0800, David Nebenzahl
nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get
down to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who
refer to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)

Ahem. I beg to differ slightly. In the People's Republic of Santa
Cruz, it's called "Highway 9", "Highway 17", and "Highway 1". They're
never referred to by their correct name of "US Route 9", "State Route
17", and "Calif State Route 1".

In Smog Angeles, Hwy 1 is called "Pacific Coast Highway", State Route
90 is the "Richard M. Nixon Freeway", and Interstate 5 is called the
"San Diego Freeway".

When I lived over the hill in San Jose in the late 1970's, the
numerical designations were rarely used. Interstate 880 was called
"the Nimitz". These days, nobody remembers Admiral Nimitz so it has
become "880".

Caltrans seems to be making a concerted and expensive effort to add to
the confusion by numbering all the freeway exits and onramps.
Unfortunately, they didn't plan it very well, so some of the numbers
are already out of sequence and there are postfixes such as "Exit
11c". I have yet to hear anyone refer to a specifically named exit by
its numerical equivalent.

When one visits the People's Republic of Santa Cruz, the point of
entry is what is called "the fish-hook" because of a 270 degree tight
turn. It's been greatly improved by an expensive rebuild 4 years ago,
but it still offers a fair approximation of a roller coaster ride:
http://we.got.net/~mapman/streets/SantaCruz/Fishhook/fishhook.html
My office is adjacent to this abomination. I would estimate we lose
one large truck to the tight turns every 2 weeks.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com

Interestingly, here in the UK, the exits from the motorways - loosely
'freeways' equivalent, I guess - have always been numbered, and have always
been referred to by number. So someone giving directions might say "take the
M1 north, and exit at junction 15 onto the A508", 'A' being the
designator for a major road, but without motorway status.

Arfa