Oxygen Free Cables

[Kissing Lettuce]

Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"

 

[David L. Jones]

Kissing Lettuce wrote:

Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"

Oxygen free is old hat, you can buy them in Coles Supermarkets.
The new ones are cryogenically frozen, polarised, have battery powered
biased dielectrics, different size strands for different frequencies,
and need to be "broken in" for extended periods before they sound the
best.

Dave

 

[TT]

"Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote
in message news:42CA33A5.CB7450B5@internode.on.net...

Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"


An easy way to tell Oxygen rich cables is "They turn Green".

Copper oxide (or sulphate) is an insulator therefore the
copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work.

Bit like Ford saying "New Falcons made from Oxygen free
steel". Duh! Who would buy a rusty car?

Think about it.

Cheers TT

 

[Fred At Home]

"TT" <TTencerNOSPAM@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:42ca5efd$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

"Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote
in message news:42CA33A5.CB7450B5@internode.on.net...
Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"


An easy way to tell Oxygen rich cables is "They turn Green".
Copper oxide (or sulphate) is an insulator therefore the
copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work.

Bit like Ford saying "New Falcons made from Oxygen free
steel". Duh! Who would buy a rusty car?

Think about it.

Cheers TT

Thanks for misleading this NG once again Terence the Tosser. There is copper
and oxygen free (a misnomer as it is actually very low residual oxygen
copper) copper, but no such thing as "oxygen rich" copper. Oxygen free
copper is created under a near vacuum where very little oxygen is present.
Copper is akin to Aluminium in that the corroded surface is thin and very
stable.

Your predisposition to making shit up when you don't know something is
becoming a tad boring TT.

 

[Glenn Pure]

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote:

Kissing Lettuce wrote:
Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"

Oxygen free is old hat, you can buy them in Coles Supermarkets.
The new ones are cryogenically frozen, polarised, have battery powered
biased dielectrics, different size strands for different frequencies,
and need to be "broken in" for extended periods before they sound the
best.

Dave

That's nice Dave. I must get some.

This reminds of a really interesting thing I read a few years ago in
"Upgrading and Repairing PCs" by Mueller. I assume it is correct but
haven't verified...

The rage these days seems to have gold-plated connectors for this,
that and the other. The interesting thing is when connectors are
mixed. Apparently, a problem has been seen with RAM where the pads on
the SIMs are gold plated and the socket on the MOBO is tinned. Some
odd metalurgy occurs that actually causes a breakdown in the
connection - and requires the SIMs to be removed and reseated every
now and then. So, if this is correct, it is possible to create a
poorer connection by using gold -- unless you make sure the mating
connector is also gold-plated.

Cheers
Glenn
Glenn Pure
Canberra, Australia
Web page: http://www.evans-pure.net

 

[TT]

"Fred At Home" <fredhome@fscans.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:42ca64bd$0$9728$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"TT" <TTencerNOSPAM@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:42ca5efd$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

"Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net
wrote
in message news:42CA33A5.CB7450B5@internode.on.net...
Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"


An easy way to tell Oxygen rich cables is "They turn
Green".
Copper oxide (or sulphate) is an insulator therefore the
copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work.

Bit like Ford saying "New Falcons made from Oxygen free
steel". Duh! Who would buy a rusty car?

Think about it.

Cheers TT


Thanks for misleading this NG once again Terence the
Tosser. There is copper
and oxygen free (a misnomer as it is actually very low
residual oxygen
copper) copper, but no such thing as "oxygen rich" copper.
Oxygen free
copper is created under a near vacuum where very little
oxygen is present.
Copper is akin to Aluminium in that the corroded surface
is thin and very
stable.

Your predisposition to making shit up when you don't know
something is
becoming a tad boring TT.

Well "Fred the Phil Allison Clone" perhaps you would be so

kind as to state exactly what you are on about.

Are you saying Copper + Oxygen is *not* Copper Oxide?

or

Are you saying that copper wire surrounded by Oxygen is an
insulator (a non-conductor) so therefore a wire that has no
Oxygen near it is somehow magically superior?.

I do not follow your point here but as a disciple of "Phil
the Troll" then it is no wonder why.

Regards TT

 

[roughplanet]

"Fred At Home" <fredhome@fscans.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:42ca64bd$0$9728$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"TT" <TTencerNOSPAM@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:42ca5efd$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

"Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote
in message news:42CA33A5.CB7450B5@internode.on.net...

Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?
You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"

An easy way to tell Oxygen rich cables is "They turn Green".
Copper oxide (or sulphate) is an insulator therefore the
copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work.
Bit like Ford saying "New Falcons made from Oxygen free
steel". Duh! Who would buy a rusty car?
Think about it.

Thanks for misleading this NG once again Terence the Tosser. There is
copper and oxygen free (a misnomer as it is actually very low residual
oxygen copper) copper, but no such thing as "oxygen rich" copper. Oxygen
free copper is created under a near vacuum where very little oxygen is
present. Copper is akin to Aluminium in that the corroded surface is thin
and very stable.
Your predisposition to making shit up when you don't know something is
becoming a tad boring TT.

You'd know all about shit FAH, as you live close to the Werribee shit farm,
don't you? (Wait for the abject denial

ruff

 

[Fred At Home]

"roughplanet" <roughplanet@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:42ca766d$0$20029$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Fred At Home" <fredhome@fscans.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:42ca64bd$0$9728$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"TT" <TTencerNOSPAM@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:42ca5efd$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

"Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote
in message news:42CA33A5.CB7450B5@internode.on.net...

Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?
You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"

An easy way to tell Oxygen rich cables is "They turn Green".
Copper oxide (or sulphate) is an insulator therefore the
copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work.
Bit like Ford saying "New Falcons made from Oxygen free
steel". Duh! Who would buy a rusty car?
Think about it.

Thanks for misleading this NG once again Terence the Tosser. There is
copper and oxygen free (a misnomer as it is actually very low residual
oxygen copper) copper, but no such thing as "oxygen rich" copper. Oxygen
free copper is created under a near vacuum where very little oxygen is
present. Copper is akin to Aluminium in that the corroded surface is thin
and very stable.
Your predisposition to making shit up when you don't know something is
becoming a tad boring TT.

You'd know all about shit FAH, as you live close to the Werribee shit
farm, don't you? (Wait for the abject denial

ruff

As you all have trouble comprehending English - "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS
OXYGEN RICH COPPER" as referred to by TT.

The "copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work" statement is also
bullshit. Every piece of copper cable used in domestic and industrial
electrical installations in the world has some residual oxygen in the
conductor.

I could go on and on but have a life beyond this NG.

Why do you all jump to the defence of bullshit?

 

[robert casey]

Kissing Lettuce wrote:

Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?
Yes, along with other hyped specs like low

capacitance low inductance and such. "Low resistance"
is the only spec that matters for speaker cable used
in the home. Oh, if you had runs several kilometers
long you'd start to care about inductance and capacitance,
but nobody's house is that big. I use power cord
suitable for 15 amp service (AWG #14). Inexpensive
and effective.

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"

After the wife starts screaming about the money

you wasted....

 

[Rod Crawford]

"Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:42CA33A5.CB7450B5@internode.on.net...

Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"

You are right to be sceptical about "oxygen-free" -and indeed that most
claims about purity of the conductor make any difference to the sound. The
usually quoted explanations for effect of purity are changes in resistance
and diode effects.

You have to add a lot (certainly more than the ppm cable manufacturers
rabbit on about) of impurity or other crystal defects to affect the
resistance - it was a technique used in the Dept of Tribophysics of CSIRO
based in Unimelb in the 1950s to study metals (before my boss in
Cambridge/Oxford developed electron-microscopy techniques for more direct
examination of such defects in metals). Put simply, the conduction
electrons are effectively detached from their atoms in metals (hence they
are called 'free electrons') and there are so many of them (of the order of
10**22 per cm**2) that they only have to travel very slowly (mm/sec) to
conduct even the largest of the currents likely to occur in audio ( less
than 100 A). You have to put a lot of barriers in their way for them to
notice any difference in resistance - and this can always be compensated for
by making the conductor slightly thicker.

Likewise you have to work pretty hard to dissolve enough oxygen to form
copper oxide precipitates inside copper . Oxides are semiconductors (i.e.
they have fewer free electrons) but this does not automatically create
'diodes' - and any such effect would in any case be short-circuited by the
metal around them.

On the other hand, the dielectric around the conductors will affect the
propagation of the electromagnetic fields which drive the electron currents
inside the metal, for reason explained in earlier posts - see
<http://www.essex.ac.uk/ese/research/audio_lab/malcolmspubdocs/G3%20HFN%20Es
sex_Echo_(cables_1985).pdf>
This article also explains why thickness of the conductors may be important
through 'skin effects' - AC currents become increasingly concentrated on the
surface as frequency increases, even at audio frequencies. Likewise the
geometry of the strands will affect the AC capacitance & inductance of the
cable (and as Hawksford explains, you generally have to trade one off
against the other).

I have certainly heard differences between cables but it tends to only
become important in high resolution hifi systems.

Rod
Dr Rod Crawford
www.legendspeakers.com.au

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"robert casey" <wa2ise@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:YrCye.16678$pa3.16441@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...

Kissing Lettuce wrote:
Are they still made and marketed with hype like
back in the 80s and 90s?
Yes, along with other hyped specs like low
capacitance low inductance and such.

**Capacitance is unimportant, but inductance may well be.

"Low resistance"

is the only spec that matters for speaker cable used
in the home.

**Really? Where did you study electrical engineering? I hope you didn't,
because you can be shown to be wrong, very easily.

Oh, if you had runs several kilometers

long you'd start to care about inductance and capacitance,
but nobody's house is that big.

**Several km? Are you certain about that? So-called 'zip' cable has an
inductance of approximately 0.75uH/Metre. At 1kM, with 8 Ohm speakers, the
attenuation will be around 3dB at around 1.5kHz. At 100Metres, the
attenuation (with 'normal' 8 Ohm speakers) will occur within the audible
range. When dealing with VERY difficult speakers:

www.rageaudio.com.au/kappa9.jpg
or
www.rageaudio.com.au/accu.jpg

The attenuation will occur with MUCH shorter cable lengths. As little as 10
Metre cable runs may show some audible degradation.

And, of course, capacitance doesn't matter one whit, with any competently
designed amplifier.

I use power cord

suitable for 15 amp service (AWG #14). Inexpensive
and effective.

**For you, perhaps. Do not presume that what works for you, is appropriate
for everyone.

You know stuff like
"Your ears will tell the difference"

After the wife starts screaming about the money
you wasted....

**Yeah, well, they all do that.

Women, can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[TT]

"Fred At Home" <fredhome@fscans.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:42cae1c8$0$9727$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
:
: "roughplanet" <roughplanet@optushome.com.au> wrote in
message
: news:42ca766d$0$20029$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
: > "Fred At Home" <fredhome@fscans.cjb.net> wrote in
message
: > news:42ca64bd$0$9728$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
: >
: > "TT" <TTencerNOSPAM@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
: > news:42ca5efd$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
: >
: > "Kissing Lettuce" <sittingbythepool@internode.on.net>
wrote
: > in message news:42CA33A5.CB7450B5@internode.on.net...
: >
: >>>> Are they still made and marketed with hype like
: >>>> back in the 80s and 90s?
: >>>> You know stuff like
: >>>> "Your ears will tell the difference"
: >
: >>> An easy way to tell Oxygen rich cables is "They turn
Green".
: >>> Copper oxide (or sulphate) is an insulator therefore
the
: >>> copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work.
: >>> Bit like Ford saying "New Falcons made from Oxygen
free
: >>> steel". Duh! Who would buy a rusty car?
: >>> Think about it.
: >
: >> Thanks for misleading this NG once again Terence the
Tosser. There is
: >> copper and oxygen free (a misnomer as it is actually
very low residual
: >> oxygen copper) copper, but no such thing as "oxygen
rich" copper. Oxygen
: >> free copper is created under a near vacuum where very
little oxygen is
: >> present. Copper is akin to Aluminium in that the
corroded surface is thin
: >> and very stable.
: >> Your predisposition to making shit up when you don't
know something is
: >> becoming a tad boring TT.
: >
: > You'd know all about shit FAH, as you live close to the
Werribee shit
: > farm, don't you? (Wait for the abject denial
: >
: > ruff
:
: As you all have trouble comprehending English - "THERE IS
NO SUCH THING AS
: OXYGEN RICH COPPER" as referred to by TT.
:
: The "copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work"
statement is also
: bullshit. Every piece of copper cable used in domestic and
industrial
: electrical installations in the world has some residual
oxygen in the
: conductor.
:
: I could go on and on but have a life beyond this NG.
:
: Why do you all jump to the defence of bullshit?
:

Ok Fred (alias Phil Alison sock puppet or clone) why not do
a Google on
"OXYGEN RICH COPPER" as **YOU** typed it. See below I get
two hits so I would say it is about time to climb back into
you cess pit.


http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22OXYGEN+RICH+COPPER%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=lr%3Dlang_en

And while we are at it *answer the question* "What do you
call Copper with a high oxygen content then??" If you
accept that "Oxygen free Copper exists" what do *you* want
to call the converse. I already put forward my *theory*
that it is Copper Oxide (or Sulphate). What is yours? Or
are we now expounding the your theory that Copper is
non-reactive with Oxygen?

Next question: What do *you* want to call the "green stuff
that forms on copper that makes it non-conductive"?

We all await your (no doubt) insightful (and Phil Allison
like) answer!

Regards TT

 

[Phil Allison]

"Trevor Wilson"

"robert casey"
**Really? Where did you study electrical engineering? I hope you didn't,
because you can be shown to be wrong, very easily.

** Mr Casey is an expert on work creation - following him around usenet
correcting all his asinine postings is almost a full time job.

Oh, if you had runs several kilometers
long you'd start to care about inductance and capacitance,
but nobody's house is that big.

**Several km? Are you certain about that? So-called 'zip' cable has an
inductance of approximately 0.75uH/Metre. At 1kM, with 8 Ohm speakers, the
attenuation will be around 3dB at around 1.5kHz. At 100Metres, the
attenuation (with 'normal' 8 Ohm speakers) will occur within the audible
range. When dealing with VERY difficult speakers:

** Even a 5 metre length of twin wire ( gauge is irrelevant) has enough
linear inductance to become quite audible when the load impedance drops to 2
ohms near 17 or 18 kHz - as it does with the Quad ESL57. With "stacked"
ESL57s, impedance drops to 1 ohm making even as little as 3 metres of heavy
gauge twin lead audible.

BTW I am not referring to some subtle effect that takes practice to
ear - but a very audible loss of signal that amounts to 1 to 3 dB @
17 - 18 kHz !!!

Also, when viewed on a scope, there is serious ringing of a square wave at
audible frequencies ( 10 to 25 % amplitude - depending on cable length )
at the speaker end of the cable that it NOT there at the amp input end.

The ONLY solution I know to cure this is to use a low inductance,
inter-woven cable like Tocord.

Using 5 metre long Tocord leads, with single ESL57s, high frequency loss is
reduced to under 0.5 dB ( resistance loss alone) and ringing all but
disappears.





............ Phil

 

[Psycho-boy]

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 10:31:21 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

"Trevor Wilson"

"robert casey"
**Really? Where did you study electrical engineering? I hope you didn't,
because you can be shown to be wrong, very easily.


** Mr Casey is an expert on work creation - following him around usenet
correcting all his asinine postings is almost a full time job.

Commonly called stalking.

 

[Fred the Homo]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 05:38:44 +1000, "Fred At Home"
<fredhome@fscans.cjb.net> wrote:

Sorry folks I meant to say

As you all have trouble comprehending English - "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS
A NORMAL THREAD FROM ME.I AM FRED THE MAD POSTER FROM THE WERRIBEE SHIT FARM"

Pooh is always oxygen free , because your intestines are always well sealed but I like
bullshit. Every piece of bullshit used by me in domestic and newgroup postings
has some residual insight into how mad I really am.

I could go on and on but I don't have anything clever to type.

Why do you all jump to the truth and ignore me?

 

[Ayn Marx]

Rod Crawford wrote:

You are right to be sceptical about "oxygen-free" -and indeed that most
claims about purity of the conductor make any difference to the sound. etc...Snip..

Fascinating Rod. Many thanks for that............A M.

 

[jb]

The rage these days seems to have gold-plated connectors for this,
that and the other. The interesting thing is when connectors are
mixed. Apparently, a problem has been seen with RAM where the pads on
the SIMs are gold plated and the socket on the MOBO is tinned. Some
odd metalurgy occurs that actually causes a breakdown in the
connection - and requires the SIMs to be removed and reseated every
now and then. So, if this is correct, it is possible to create a
poorer connection by using gold -- unless you make sure the mating
connector is also gold-plated.

Would explain why my RAM goes ratshit every few months with that exact fix.

-mark

 

[Phil Allison]

"Fred At Home"

As you all have trouble comprehending English - "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS
OXYGEN RICH COPPER" as referred to by TT.

The "copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work" statement is
also bullshit. Every piece of copper cable used in domestic and industrial
electrical installations in the world has some residual oxygen in the
conductor.

I could go on and on but have a life beyond this NG.


Why do you all jump to the defence of bullshit?

** For any audiophool - doing that is as automatic as defending one's
wife, children, dog etc ....




............. Phil

 

[Psycho-boy]

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:10:29 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

"Fred At Home"


As you all have trouble comprehending English - "THERE IS NO SUCH THING
AS OXYGEN RICH COPPER" as referred to by TT.

The "copper *has* to be oxygen free or it just don't work" statement is
also bullshit. Every piece of copper cable used in domestic and
industrial electrical installations in the world has some residual
oxygen in the conductor.

I could go on and on but have a life beyond this NG.


Why do you all jump to the defence of bullshit?


** For any audiophool - doing that is as automatic as defending one's
wife, children, dog etc ....

Since you have no wife, children, dog, post a picture of your "etc".

 

[TT]

"Psycho-boy" <nutter@the.best.of.times.com> wrote in message
newsan.2005.07.06.04.54.28.319966@Scum...
: : > ** For any audiophool - doing that is as automatic
as defending one's
: > wife, children, dog etc ....
:
: Since you have no wife, children, dog, post a picture of
your "etc".

etc = "Electrical Trainee Certificate" perhaps?

TT )