OT: Why is Germany so (apparently) stupid to give up nuclear

[John Doe]

I keep wondering why Germany is being misled into giving up nuclear
power. Something is wrong, that's obvious. Not saying it portends
something else, but it could.

Of course Albert Einstein was brilliant. Germany has produced lots of
great classical music. But... What the hell is wrong with them? They
allowed themselves to be misled by Adolf Hitler to their near total
annihilation. I'm not a historian, but it's obvious they are not
actually stupid, or at least those who apply themselves. So what's the
deal, in your opinion? I wonder what the German women to German men
voting ratio is on the subject.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

John Doe wrote:

I keep wondering why Germany is being misled into giving up nuclear
power. Something is wrong, that's obvious. Not saying it portends
something else, but it could.

[...]

At the time, the world, Germany included, was well underway to
re-embrace nuclear power, to reduce CO2 emission and all that.

And then Fukushima happened.

Jeroen Belleman

 

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 14:28:26 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

I keep wondering why Germany is being misled into giving up nuclear
power. Something is wrong, that's obvious. Not saying it portends
something else, but it could.

Of course Albert Einstein was brilliant. Germany has produced lots of
great classical music. But... What the hell is wrong with them? They
allowed themselves to be misled by Adolf Hitler to their near total
annihilation. I'm not a historian, but it's obvious they are not
actually stupid, or at least those who apply themselves. So what's the
deal, in your opinion? I wonder what the German women to German men
voting ratio is on the subject.

The Green movement is primarily about finding a cause to rally people.
The cause is fear and the aim, as usual, is to accumulate power and
money.

Maybe Germans are especially suceptable to fear, so are a fertile
field for green stuff. And, likely, the Germans are unusually
suceptable to group-dynamics peer pressure.

"allowed themselves to be misled by Adolf Hitler" is maybe what didn't
happen. More likely Hitler was lead by the mass of Germans. Everything
is dynamics.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 17/09/2019 15:40, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

John Doe wrote:
I keep wondering why Germany is being misled into giving up nuclear
power. Something is wrong, that's obvious. Not saying it portends
something else, but it could.

[...]

At the time, the world, Germany included, was well underway to
re-embrace nuclear power, to reduce CO2 emission and all that.

And then Fukushima happened.

Although tsunamis and powerful earthquakes are very much less common in
Germany they do have quite a hefty and influential green movement.

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-g-n/germany.aspx

Ironically because of nuclear shutdowns they are now burning vast
quantities of dirty lignite in inefficient former East German power
plants to make the bulk of their electricity and despoiling the
countryside with ugly open cast lignite/brown coal mines.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/rich-seams-the-fight-over-east-germany-s-brown-coal-reserves-a-472816.html

France is the only country with serious investment in nuclear power now.
They have nearly 75% nuclear generation and export it to other EU countries.

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx

The British nuclear plant is all ageing and being run past its design
lifetime with new reactors still in a very precarious part built state.
(precarious as in it isn't clear if they will ever get finished or not)

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-t-z/united-kingdom.aspx

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[bitrex]

On 9/17/19 12:26 PM, bitrex wrote:

Hitler was no intellectual and he knew that, he was a bloviator and
fraud. Goebbels was the real brains of the operation and way more of a
Hitler than Hitler was at the end of he day.

Even late in the war, Hitler thought there could be some other solution
than the "final" one. He talked about it with Goebbels, and Goebbels,
being far more of an anti-semite than Hitler was, insisted there was no
other way.

Hitler died truly believing he was the real victim who only wanted the
best for everyone, and was betrayed by everyone even his "friends."

 

[Steve Wilson]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

"allowed themselves to be misled by Adolf Hitler" is maybe what didn't
happen. More likely Hitler was lead by the mass of Germans. Everything
is dynamics.

Have you ever read about Hitler? He is probably the most-studied person in
history. There is an enormous amount of documentation on his actions,
starting with Mein Kampf, volume 1 and 2. These document his plans for the
war to come. It was the most destructive war in history.

There is zero evidence he was "led by the mass of Germans." The thought is
simply ludicrous.

 

.....The same thing that allowed Trump to get elected in the USA.
A charismatic populist rabble rouser with a funny haircut and a very
simple message to the people - namely "make Germany great again".
Sound familiar?....
You people would not know a true modern version of Hitler if it bit you in the arse.....but you bring more Jew haters in by the millions every year in the name of compassion....and you want to lecture us about how to filter out the next Hitler? What a hoot

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:01:38 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

"allowed themselves to be misled by Adolf Hitler" is maybe what didn't
happen. More likely Hitler was lead by the mass of Germans. Everything
is dynamics.

Have you ever read about Hitler? He is probably the most-studied person in
history. There is an enormous amount of documentation on his actions,
starting with Mein Kampf, volume 1 and 2. These document his plans for the
war to come. It was the most destructive war in history.

There is zero evidence he was "led by the mass of Germans." The thought is
simply ludicrous.

Lots of people wrote lots of books and made lots of speeches. Some got
popular support, some didn't. Why do you think that is?

There were Nazis and anti-semites in the US and the UK too. But not
very successful.

 

[Steve Wilson]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

When Hitler wrote or spoke A, B, C, and D, and got cheers for C and
yawns from the rest, the crowd learned and so did he.

Hitler packed his audiences with fanatical nazis. He practised his speeches
and rehearsed his movements and emphasis. The audience's reaction was
completely pre-programmed. Films of the speech were pure pr and widely
distributed.

There is no evidence that he ever made different versions of his speeches to
test the audience reaction. He didn't have time for that.

There is no instance of the audience's reaction having any effect on his
plans. He owned the audience.

 

[bitrex]

On 9/17/19 3:13 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

When Hitler wrote or spoke A, B, C, and D, and got cheers for C and
yawns from the rest, the crowd learned and so did he.

Hitler packed his audiences with fanatical nazis. He practised his speeches
and rehearsed his movements and emphasis. The audience's reaction was
completely pre-programmed. Films of the speech were pure pr and widely
distributed.

There is no evidence that he ever made different versions of his speeches to
test the audience reaction. He didn't have time for that.

There is no instance of the audience's reaction having any effect on his
plans. He owned the audience.

Sure, well where did all the "fanatical nazis" come from if all the
speeches and rallies were a set-up and were never required to "sell"
anyone on anything.

A: Germany was full of "fanatical nazis" already they just didn't have
an official name for themselves.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:13:11 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

When Hitler wrote or spoke A, B, C, and D, and got cheers for C and
yawns from the rest, the crowd learned and so did he.

Hitler packed his audiences with fanatical nazis. He practised his speeches
and rehearsed his movements and emphasis. The audience's reaction was
completely pre-programmed. Films of the speech were pure pr and widely
distributed.

Literally millions of Germans went to war. There was a lot of
enthusiasm.

There is no evidence that he ever made different versions of his speeches to
test the audience reaction. He didn't have time for that.

There is no instance of the audience's reaction having any effect on his
plans. He owned the audience.

Or the audience owned him. We had no Hitlers in the USA or the UK or
in France.

We had some other demagogues, like George Wallace in the South. Again,
the audience created the dictator. Popular sentiment was the energy
source, begging for someone to come along and use it.

I wonder if there are math models for this sort of social system.

 

[Steve Wilson]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:13:11 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

When Hitler wrote or spoke A, B, C, and D, and got cheers for C and
yawns from the rest, the crowd learned and so did he.

Hitler packed his audiences with fanatical nazis. He practised his
speeches and rehearsed his movements and emphasis. The audience's
reaction was completely pre-programmed. Films of the speech were pure pr
and widely distributed.

Literally millions of Germans went to war. There was a lot of
enthusiasm.

Of course there was. They were the master race. Hitler promoted this
concept, and it went deep into German culture. The military thought they
were invincible, until Stalingrad and Kursk.

There is no evidence that he ever made different versions of his
speeches to test the audience reaction. He didn't have time for that.

There is no instance of the audience's reaction having any effect on his
plans. He owned the audience.

Or the audience owned him.

Hitler hand-picked his audience to be made up of fanatical Natzis. They
reacted the way he wanted them to. Dissenters were killed or sent to
concentration camps and disappeared. Nacht und Nebel.

We had no Hitlers in the USA or the UK or
in France.

Mussolini in Italy, Stalin in Russia.

We had some other demagogues, like George Wallace in the South. Again,
the audience created the dictator. Popular sentiment was the energy
source, begging for someone to come along and use it.

Hitler used anti-Jewish sentiment to create the Holocaust. He planned this
in Mein Kampf. Kristallnacht.

> I wonder if there are math models for this sort of social system.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:00:20 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 5:07:06 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:13:11 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

When Hitler wrote or spoke A, B, C, and D, and got cheers for C and
yawns from the rest, the crowd learned and so did he.

Hitler packed his audiences with fanatical nazis. He practised his speeches
and rehearsed his movements and emphasis. The audience's reaction was
completely pre-programmed. Films of the speech were pure pr and widely
distributed.

Literally millions of Germans went to war. There was a lot of
enthusiasm.


There is no evidence that he ever made different versions of his speeches to
test the audience reaction. He didn't have time for that.

There is no instance of the audience's reaction having any effect on his
plans. He owned the audience.




Or the audience owned him. We had no Hitlers in the USA or the UK or
in France.

We had some other demagogues, like George Wallace in the South.




Again,
the audience created the dictator. Popular sentiment was the energy
source, begging for someone to come along and use it.


No need to go back all the way to George Wallace, Trump works.

He certainly was a creation of a popular sentiment. But most
politicians are. But he's not a dictator, he's the constitutional
President.

Probably Stalin and Mao weren't creations of a popular sentiment, and
they were dictators.

Read about the Siberian railroad, or The Four Pests.

https://birdingbeijing.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/e16-34.jpg?w=660

 

[Phil Allison]

Whoey Louie wrote:

-----------------------

How about that French navy holed up in Algeria? The British gave them
three choices:

Join us
Disable your warships
Be sunk

The French predictably picked option #3

** This a quote from the "Navel History of WW2" by Alfred E. Neuman ??



...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

Jeroen Belleman wrote:

-----------------------

At the time, the world, Germany included, was well underway to
re-embrace nuclear power, to reduce CO2 emission and all that.

And then Fukushima happened.

** Does anyone here not realise that "global warming" is merely a conspiracy theory promoted by the Nuclear Power industry in order to deal themselves back in the game ?

Always consider the principle behind " cui bono ".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono

Nuclear engineers well know they hold the *trump card* when it come to supplying the human race with copious amounts of CO2 free energy way into the future.



.... Phil

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 5:07:06 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:13:11 GMT, Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

When Hitler wrote or spoke A, B, C, and D, and got cheers for C and
yawns from the rest, the crowd learned and so did he.

Hitler packed his audiences with fanatical nazis. He practised his speeches
and rehearsed his movements and emphasis. The audience's reaction was
completely pre-programmed. Films of the speech were pure pr and widely
distributed.

Literally millions of Germans went to war. There was a lot of
enthusiasm.


There is no evidence that he ever made different versions of his speeches to
test the audience reaction. He didn't have time for that.

There is no instance of the audience's reaction having any effect on his
plans. He owned the audience.




Or the audience owned him. We had no Hitlers in the USA or the UK or
in France.

We had some other demagogues, like George Wallace in the South.

Again,

the audience created the dictator. Popular sentiment was the energy
source, begging for someone to come along and use it.

No need to go back all the way to George Wallace, Trump works.

I wonder if there are math models for this sort of social system.

 

[Steve Wilson]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

> Read about the Siberian railroad, or The Four Pests.

The Siberian railroad was constructed between 1891 and 1916. It had nothing
to do with Hitler.

The "Four Pests" campaign was introduced in 1958 by Mao Zedong, as a hygiene
campaign aimed to eradicate the pests responsible for the transmission of
pestilence and disease: the mosquitos responsible for malaria; the rodents
that spread the plague; the pervasive airborne flies; and the sparrows –
specifically the Eurasian tree sparrow – which ate grain seed and fruit.

The The "Four Pests" campaign had nothing to do with Hitler, or with anything
else in this thread.