OT what is it?

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 11:56:17 AM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:

ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1fd8c44b-87be-47ae-9770-2c1e10a6ecd6@googlegroups.com...
On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 10:41:16 AM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa224646-0b5f-4e79-8e12-895f8a277660@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 10:04:36 PM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:569db2d6-bbd5-44e8-aa02-d51a43286510@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 2:45:30 PM UTC-4, gghe...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 12:53:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
pfjw@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0a9cc775-024d-49fe-b559-a79df434006a@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 9:52:07 AM UTC-4,
gghe...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all, I found this thing.. see pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxd1cq8qbdyali4/AAA6O9NqKQPvbX4QLzNAK-Vaa?dl=0
In the back of a drawer at my house. The previous owner was a
pack
rat,
who also worked for the phone company.
It looks like some high voltage flashlight.
What sort of voltage do I apply to the leads?

Thanks,
George H.

As per Boris - yes, it could be a timing light - but definitely a
stop-action device of some sort. I expect that there were other
parts
associated with it - strobe-type timing lights have an induction
trigger
device, usually, as one example. + & -attached to the battery,
and
the
inductor clamped to #1 cylinder spark-plug wire.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But there is no trigger electrode. It might be Neon. Can you hit
it
with
some high voltage, maybe from a lawn mower spark plug? See what
the
discharge spectrum looks like.

Hmm OK, I could try that.

I'm a little leery of mixing electronics with my lawn mower.
Way back when, a motor wouldn't start, and I convinced myself
it was a spark problem. I couldn't see a spark
after all. I wanted to see how much voltage I was getting so
I hooked up my DMM (though a series resistor), Pulled the
cord to turn over the engine, and promptly blew up my DMM. :^(

George H.

Tom, Sorry I chickened out and didn't put it across any
of my working motors. (The last thing I want is to
blow out the spark drive... I'm not really sure, what I'm saying.
Is it ok to put a dead short across my briggs and stratton?

George H.


Doesn't the spark plug do just that when it fires?
Yeah, I didn't say my fear was rational.
I had a bunch of old engines, I think most were "re-cycled" this
past summer.
Hmm, OK I'll hook it up to my old tractor.
(Ferguson to-20) If I blow out the coil it's easy to
put in a new one.


What damages magneto ignition systems is open circuit, wire off plug
events.
Then the coil arcs internally.


Don't you have any kind of transformer that could make a HV spark with
say a
9 volt battery? A filament transformer maybe?

9V battery and transformer? (how does that work?)

I've got a 120-24 (6A) tranny, how much voltage would you guess I'll
need?
I could run that backwards from a Variac.

George H.



Just take clip leads to the highest voltage winding (primary?) to the
tube.
Then use the battery to "flash" the lowest voltage winding. Think about
how
the points work in an ignition circuit.

No, do not use a variac.

All you want is to get a discharge through the tube and see what color is
produced. Red says it might be Neon, blueish white may be Xenon, other
will
be who knows.

Thanks Tom, I got nothing with my big transformer.
(I don't have enough current to get any significant voltage across the low
voltage windings. It could also be that the tube is dead.
I'll try with my tractor at home tonight.

George H.

Just be careful. Getting hit with the HV can really hurt.

I didn't have time to play with it this evening.
(my night to take my daughter to dance,
and raining when I got home.
Tomorrow, as long as the sun doesn't set too soon. :^)

HV, not to worry, I've been bitten several times,
and have a healthy respect.

George H.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 10/21/2015 01:24 AM, Tom Miller wrote:

"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:qMqdnSIxRKFQgbrLnZ2dnUU7-QednZ2d@supernews.com...
On 10/19/2015 09:51 AM, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all, I found this thing.. see pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxd1cq8qbdyali4/AAA6O9NqKQPvbX4QLzNAK-Vaa?dl=0

In the back of a drawer at my house. The previous owner was a pack rat,
who also worked for the phone company.
It looks like some high voltage flashlight.
What sort of voltage do I apply to the leads?

Thanks,
George H.


Looks like a fairly powerful flashlamp inside--it might be the
business end of one of those old photo flash units that ran off a 300V
dry cell


Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--

No, they just had a Neon tube. You had to enhance the timing mark on the
balancer with white chalk. It really would not work outside in sunlight.
They were the cheapest timing light one could buy then. Now they use
Xenon flash tubes and inverters/storage caps.

I would venture a guess that unit was made in the 60's or earlier.



Why go to the trouble of making that huge helical tube then?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 10/19/2015 09:51 AM, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:

Hi all, I found this thing.. see pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxd1cq8qbdyali4/AAA6O9NqKQPvbX4QLzNAK-Vaa?dl=0
In the back of a drawer at my house. The previous owner was a pack rat,
who also worked for the phone company.
It looks like some high voltage flashlight.
What sort of voltage do I apply to the leads?

Thanks,
George H.

Looks like a fairly powerful flashlamp inside--it might be the business
end of one of those old photo flash units that ran off a 300V dry cell


Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Bob Engelhardt]

As others have said, it's an old, primitive, cheap timing light:
http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1313093243

 

[Tom Miller]

"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:qMqdnSIxRKFQgbrLnZ2dnUU7-QednZ2d@supernews.com...

On 10/19/2015 09:51 AM, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all, I found this thing.. see pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxd1cq8qbdyali4/AAA6O9NqKQPvbX4QLzNAK-Vaa?dl=0
In the back of a drawer at my house. The previous owner was a pack rat,
who also worked for the phone company.
It looks like some high voltage flashlight.
What sort of voltage do I apply to the leads?

Thanks,
George H.


Looks like a fairly powerful flashlamp inside--it might be the business
end of one of those old photo flash units that ran off a 300V dry cell


Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--

No, they just had a Neon tube. You had to enhance the timing mark on the
balancer with white chalk. It really would not work outside in sunlight.
They were the cheapest timing light one could buy then. Now they use Xenon
flash tubes and inverters/storage caps.

I would venture a guess that unit was made in the 60's or earlier.

 

[Tom Miller]

"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:1bKdnbx8Y66qsbrLnZ2dnUU7-WednZ2d@supernews.com...

On 10/21/2015 01:24 AM, Tom Miller wrote:

"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:qMqdnSIxRKFQgbrLnZ2dnUU7-QednZ2d@supernews.com...
On 10/19/2015 09:51 AM, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all, I found this thing.. see pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxd1cq8qbdyali4/AAA6O9NqKQPvbX4QLzNAK-Vaa?dl=0

In the back of a drawer at my house. The previous owner was a pack
rat,
who also worked for the phone company.
It looks like some high voltage flashlight.
What sort of voltage do I apply to the leads?

Thanks,
George H.


Looks like a fairly powerful flashlamp inside--it might be the
business end of one of those old photo flash units that ran off a 300V
dry cell


Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--

No, they just had a Neon tube. You had to enhance the timing mark on the
balancer with white chalk. It really would not work outside in sunlight.
They were the cheapest timing light one could buy then. Now they use
Xenon flash tubes and inverters/storage caps.

I would venture a guess that unit was made in the 60's or earlier.



Why go to the trouble of making that huge helical tube then?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--

To get as much light as possible from a hand held tool. And Neon tubes are
cheap. Remember, you had to hold the strobe close to the harmonic balancer
while turning the distributor housing to set the timing. It got much easier
when the consumer grade xenon units came out. Even then, they cost $100+ in
the 60-70's. The neon units were $30-40.

 

[Ian Field]

"Tom Miller" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:n07c25$gme$1@dont-email.me...

"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:1bKdnbx8Y66qsbrLnZ2dnUU7-WednZ2d@supernews.com...
On 10/21/2015 01:24 AM, Tom Miller wrote:

"Phil Hobbs" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:qMqdnSIxRKFQgbrLnZ2dnUU7-QednZ2d@supernews.com...
On 10/19/2015 09:51 AM, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all, I found this thing.. see pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxd1cq8qbdyali4/AAA6O9NqKQPvbX4QLzNAK-Vaa?dl=0

In the back of a drawer at my house. The previous owner was a pack
rat,
who also worked for the phone company.
It looks like some high voltage flashlight.
What sort of voltage do I apply to the leads?

Thanks,
George H.


Looks like a fairly powerful flashlamp inside--it might be the
business end of one of those old photo flash units that ran off a 300V
dry cell


Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--

No, they just had a Neon tube. You had to enhance the timing mark on the
balancer with white chalk. It really would not work outside in sunlight.
They were the cheapest timing light one could buy then. Now they use
Xenon flash tubes and inverters/storage caps.

I would venture a guess that unit was made in the 60's or earlier.



Why go to the trouble of making that huge helical tube then?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--

To get as much light as possible from a hand held tool. And Neon tubes are
cheap. Remember, you had to hold the strobe close to the harmonic balancer
while turning the distributor housing to set the timing. It got much
easier when the consumer grade xenon units came out. Even then, they cost
$100+ in the 60-70's. The neon units were $30-40.

Years ago I had a motorcycle with 6V electrics - I couldn't buy a 6V xenon
unit at any price.

The problem was solved by building my own in the housing of an old
flashlight.

Haven't seen it for a while, but its highly unlikely I would've thrown it
out - it must be under the clutter in the garage somewhere.

Whether building another would be less hassle than finding the old one is a
whole 'nother question!

AFAIK: the latest development in more efficient white LEDs, is ditching blue
LEDs with yellow phosphor in favour of UV LEDs with white phosphor.

These are already finding their way into phone-camera flash rings, and the
white phosphor may have short enough persistence to use in a strobe.

 

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 10:01:23 PM UTC-4, gghe...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 11:56:17 AM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1fd8c44b-87be-47ae-9770-2c1e10a6ecd6@googlegroups.com...
On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 10:41:16 AM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa224646-0b5f-4e79-8e12-895f8a277660@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 10:04:36 PM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:569db2d6-bbd5-44e8-aa02-d51a43286510@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 2:45:30 PM UTC-4, gghe...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 12:53:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
pfjw@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0a9cc775-024d-49fe-b559-a79df434006a@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 9:52:07 AM UTC-4,
gghe...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all, I found this thing.. see pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxd1cq8qbdyali4/AAA6O9NqKQPvbX4QLzNAK-Vaa?dl=0
In the back of a drawer at my house. The previous owner was a
pack
rat,
who also worked for the phone company.
It looks like some high voltage flashlight.
What sort of voltage do I apply to the leads?

Thanks,
George H.

As per Boris - yes, it could be a timing light - but definitely a
stop-action device of some sort. I expect that there were other
parts
associated with it - strobe-type timing lights have an induction
trigger
device, usually, as one example. + & -attached to the battery,
and
the
inductor clamped to #1 cylinder spark-plug wire.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But there is no trigger electrode. It might be Neon. Can you hit
it
with
some high voltage, maybe from a lawn mower spark plug? See what
the
discharge spectrum looks like.

Hmm OK, I could try that.

I'm a little leery of mixing electronics with my lawn mower.
Way back when, a motor wouldn't start, and I convinced myself
it was a spark problem. I couldn't see a spark
after all. I wanted to see how much voltage I was getting so
I hooked up my DMM (though a series resistor), Pulled the
cord to turn over the engine, and promptly blew up my DMM. :^(

George H.

Tom, Sorry I chickened out and didn't put it across any
of my working motors. (The last thing I want is to
blow out the spark drive... I'm not really sure, what I'm saying.
Is it ok to put a dead short across my briggs and stratton?

George H.


Doesn't the spark plug do just that when it fires?
Yeah, I didn't say my fear was rational.
I had a bunch of old engines, I think most were "re-cycled" this
past summer.
Hmm, OK I'll hook it up to my old tractor.
(Ferguson to-20) If I blow out the coil it's easy to
put in a new one.


What damages magneto ignition systems is open circuit, wire off plug
events.
Then the coil arcs internally.


Don't you have any kind of transformer that could make a HV spark with
say a
9 volt battery? A filament transformer maybe?

9V battery and transformer? (how does that work?)

I've got a 120-24 (6A) tranny, how much voltage would you guess I'll
need?
I could run that backwards from a Variac.

George H.



Just take clip leads to the highest voltage winding (primary?) to the
tube.
Then use the battery to "flash" the lowest voltage winding. Think about
how
the points work in an ignition circuit.

No, do not use a variac.

All you want is to get a discharge through the tube and see what color is
produced. Red says it might be Neon, blueish white may be Xenon, other
will
be who knows.

Thanks Tom, I got nothing with my big transformer.
(I don't have enough current to get any significant voltage across the low
voltage windings. It could also be that the tube is dead.
I'll try with my tractor at home tonight.

George H.

Just be careful. Getting hit with the HV can really hurt.

I didn't have time to play with it this evening.
(my night to take my daughter to dance,
and raining when I got home.
Tomorrow, as long as the sun doesn't set too soon. :^)

HV, not to worry, I've been bitten several times,
and have a healthy respect.

George H.

OK I hooked this up to the spark of my tractor last night.
The nice cherry glow of Neon was visible.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, comments and links.

So here's a question, My daughter likes the elements,
we have a small collection. Adding Neon would be nice,
but we'd have to make a little circuit to power the tube.

1.) How much voltage do I need to start it? (10kV?)
2.) could I run it CW or would a pulsed thing be better/ easier.
3.) How to make the HV? My first thought was a cockroft-walton chain.
Could I choose the caps and frequency such as to have a crude current control.

(I like the Cockroft chain because it's not all that hard to understand.)

Any thoughts?

George H.

 

[Ian Field]

<ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fc686851-ae1f-4f2d-987c-863570a8b631@googlegroups.com...

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 10:01:23 PM UTC-4, gghe...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 11:56:17 AM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1fd8c44b-87be-47ae-9770-2c1e10a6ecd6@googlegroups.com...
On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 10:41:16 AM UTC-4, Tom Miller wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa224646-0b5f-4e79-8e12-895f8a277660@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 10:04:36 PM UTC-4, Tom Miller
wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:569db2d6-bbd5-44e8-aa02-d51a43286510@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 2:45:30 PM UTC-4,
gghe...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 12:53:45 PM UTC-4, Tom Miller
wrote:
pfjw@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0a9cc775-024d-49fe-b559-a79df434006a@googlegroups.com...
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 9:52:07 AM UTC-4,
gghe...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all, I found this thing.. see pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sxd1cq8qbdyali4/AAA6O9NqKQPvbX4QLzNAK-Vaa?dl=0
In the back of a drawer at my house. The previous owner
was a
pack
rat,
who also worked for the phone company.
It looks like some high voltage flashlight.
What sort of voltage do I apply to the leads?

Thanks,
George H.

As per Boris - yes, it could be a timing light - but
definitely a
stop-action device of some sort. I expect that there were
other
parts
associated with it - strobe-type timing lights have an
induction
trigger
device, usually, as one example. + & -attached to the
battery,
and
the
inductor clamped to #1 cylinder spark-plug wire.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But there is no trigger electrode. It might be Neon. Can you
hit
it
with
some high voltage, maybe from a lawn mower spark plug? See
what
the
discharge spectrum looks like.

Hmm OK, I could try that.

I'm a little leery of mixing electronics with my lawn mower.
Way back when, a motor wouldn't start, and I convinced myself
it was a spark problem. I couldn't see a spark
after all. I wanted to see how much voltage I was getting so
I hooked up my DMM (though a series resistor), Pulled the
cord to turn over the engine, and promptly blew up my DMM.
:^(

George H.

Tom, Sorry I chickened out and didn't put it across any
of my working motors. (The last thing I want is to
blow out the spark drive... I'm not really sure, what I'm
saying.
Is it ok to put a dead short across my briggs and stratton?

George H.


Doesn't the spark plug do just that when it fires?
Yeah, I didn't say my fear was rational.
I had a bunch of old engines, I think most were "re-cycled" this
past summer.
Hmm, OK I'll hook it up to my old tractor.
(Ferguson to-20) If I blow out the coil it's easy to
put in a new one.


What damages magneto ignition systems is open circuit, wire off
plug
events.
Then the coil arcs internally.


Don't you have any kind of transformer that could make a HV spark
with
say a
9 volt battery? A filament transformer maybe?

9V battery and transformer? (how does that work?)

I've got a 120-24 (6A) tranny, how much voltage would you guess
I'll
need?
I could run that backwards from a Variac.

George H.



Just take clip leads to the highest voltage winding (primary?) to
the
tube.
Then use the battery to "flash" the lowest voltage winding. Think
about
how
the points work in an ignition circuit.

No, do not use a variac.

All you want is to get a discharge through the tube and see what
color is
produced. Red says it might be Neon, blueish white may be Xenon,
other
will
be who knows.

Thanks Tom, I got nothing with my big transformer.
(I don't have enough current to get any significant voltage across
the low
voltage windings. It could also be that the tube is dead.
I'll try with my tractor at home tonight.

George H.

Just be careful. Getting hit with the HV can really hurt.

I didn't have time to play with it this evening.
(my night to take my daughter to dance,
and raining when I got home.
Tomorrow, as long as the sun doesn't set too soon. :^)

HV, not to worry, I've been bitten several times,
and have a healthy respect.

George H.

OK I hooked this up to the spark of my tractor last night.
The nice cherry glow of Neon was visible.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, comments and links.

So here's a question, My daughter likes the elements,
we have a small collection. Adding Neon would be nice,
but we'd have to make a little circuit to power the tube.

1.) How much voltage do I need to start it? (10kV?)
2.) could I run it CW or would a pulsed thing be better/ easier.
3.) How to make the HV? My first thought was a cockroft-walton chain.
Could I choose the caps and frequency such as to have a crude current
control.

(I like the Cockroft chain because it's not all that hard to understand.)

Any thoughts?

You could probably get away with the chopper transformer out of the SMPSU in
a ser top box like a DVB-T type thing.

Using the transformer back to front, you can get pretty decent HT with a
simple blocking oscillator on what used to be the secondary.

Or you could go for a capacitor discharge unit. Of course you need another
chopper transformer to make the inverter. About 250 - 350V is good enough
for the intermediate voltage, you can make a simple relaxation oscillator
with 2 or more series neon bulbs and a capacitor to fire the SCR.

Years ago I made a pocket disco strobe along those lines, it used the xenon
tube from an old camera and run off 4x AA Ni-Cd cells.