OT: Walmart...

[Don Y]

On 7/26/2020 11:05 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 26/07/20 16:14, Don Y wrote:
On 7/26/2020 7:25 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:

We don\'t have the \"insurance uplift\" problem here, I\'m
very glad to say. Callout fees are ~£60, which is very
reasonable.

It\'s a perverse set of DISincentives! E.g., if you
*qualify* for a chair, then there\'s no incentive for you
to be economical in your selection process
I understand and accept that theory, but in practice
that doesn\'t seem to be an issue here. I\'m not sure why,
but some speculations can be:
- people value and treasure the health service
above most things, to an almost religious extent.
There is a visceral fear of anything like the US
health system. Many Americans simply cannot believe
that, but it is true
- people know the NHS is under-resourced, and don\'t want
to abuse it
- they have economies of bulk purchases, which keeps the
price down
- the NHS will give you what you /need/, as assessed by
skilled individuals that have nothing to gain by over
or underselling. Hence they are trusted, and the
decision is accepted.

I hear folks talk (wrt insurance, in general) with an attitude of
\"I\'ve PAID for this so I\'m going to get the most out of it!\"

Not me! I prefer to stay out of hospitals, and where you
have to repeat purchasing insurance, I presume some of
your payout will be recouped by increased premiums.

It\'s not necessarily going INTO a hospital as much as it is
EXPECTING (and DEMANDING!) \"The best\" treatment -- instead of
the treatment that is most appropriate for the condition with
which you are presenting.

E.g., folks will want an MRI when an ultrasound may be the
more appropriate (initial!) test. Then, complain when/if
the MRI is authorized thereafter, that they wasted all that
time with the US! (THEY aren\'t paying for the procedure...
they figure they have already PAID for it... and, thus,
want Top Shelf)

But then perhaps I\'m too honest. When my car was rear
ended, several times I was asked if I had any neck problems.
I answered no, in the full knowledge that claiming
such problems was a standard way to jack up a payout.

Yup. A car I owned was vandalized ~40 years ago. In
the process, a window broken. As it was late November (in
New England), I was pretty motivated to get it replaced
promptly!

Trying to get a price quote from the glass company was like
pulling teeth: \"I need to know whether you have glass coverage,
or not, in your insurance policy...\" (yeah, I carry my policy
with me to work every day... uh huh!)

Out of frustration, I asked, \"is it cheaper if I HAVE insurance
or if I *don\'t* have insurance?\" Lady replied, \"cheaper without\".
\"Fine. Assume I *don\'t* have insurance. How much is this going
to cost me and how quickly can I get it done?\"

Note that there is also no incentive for insurers to drive costs
down. If health care (or DME) was inexpensive, you\'d never consider
buying insurance to cover those POSSIBLE costs!

Oh, that\'s a perverse incentive (for the insurance companies)
I hadn\'t thought of!

Yes. So, it behooves them to nudge people into thinking that
more expensive procedures/tests are worthwhile... so, they demand
them which drives up the premiums, etc.

If you *don\'t* qualify, then you\'re stuck facing \"list prices\"
that are exhorbitant (my chairs \"list\" for more than many folks\'
annual net pay!)

You can always buy medical treatment/equipment here. The
list prices aren\'t artificially inflated in the way you
outline.

Here\'s the published \"retail price list\" for my chairs (from factory):
https://permobilus.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/US-M300-Corpus-HD.pdf
(actually, I don\'t have the HD model but the prices are very comparable)

A crude tabulation of the pertinent line items:

Batteries (pair) 1,002

Two batteries that I already mentioned could be purchased for
~250/each.

>> LED light kit 1,233

Two (2 inch dia reflectors) \"headlights\", two red tail
lights and four yellow turn signals. $150/lamp??

Color Joystick w/lights 1,232
Stick (not included in the above!) 167

This is the actual \"stick\" that slips onto the metal
post that the \"color joystick\" assembly presents. It\'s
a 2.5\" long fob of plastic!!

Memory seat program 132
Legrest linked to recline electronically 50

Two pieces of software that are present always -- just need
to be \"enabled\" in the factory configuration process.

>> ROHO seat cushion (22\") 628

A fancy rubber bladder...

>> Incontinence seat cover 161

A \"pillow case\" for that bladder

Left arm pad (gel) 185
Right arm pad (gel) 185

I guess they sell them individually in case they have
a one-armed customer!

>> Push handles (so someone can push the chair) 447

This is effectively \"bicycle handlebars\" bolted to the
back of the chair.

>> USB charger 212

A 500mA 5V power supply fed from the 24VDC power bus.

Total 45,590

That seems high, but what do I know? I\'ve no idea
of the cost over here.

To be fair, there is a lot of \"sales cost\" involved.
You don\'t just take an order over the phone and ship
out a chair. A friend DIED before her chair was ready
for her!

And, the chair has to be \"fitted\" to the occupant.

Imagine if every PC sold had to be \"installed\" in the
buyer\'s home. How much time would be spent doing that
and answering inane questions from the buyer??

As for deafaids, there are many types on the market, but
at any time the NHS will offer only a very types which
cover the complete spectrum - up to and including cochlear
implants. Presumably the specific types depend on what
they can negotiate from the suppliers this year.

One can argue that certain \"features\" (and associated
PRICES) aren\'t \"essential\" to providing the compensation
required. E.g., features (pricing) that reflects
\"vanity\" issues might be arguably not essential.

I spoke with a blind man many years ago regarding the
issues that he considered important in the design of
kit to address blindness. The comment that I remember
most was \"don\'t make it LOOK BLIND\" (!) I.e., many products
look very bland... unsexxy. He considered this a slight
on that population: \"Why can\'t WE have sexxy products?\"

[I mentioned that fancy packaging adds to development
cost which must be absorbed over a relatively small population
so developers opt for \"stock\" enclosures instead of custom
jobs...]

[[The other notable comment was to make products easy to
clean -- so sighted folks don\'t cringe when they see
some bit of kit with lots of dirt/grime ground into
nooks and crannies]]

I expect that I /could/ get a better hearing aid (whatever
than might mean) privately, but it would probably set me
back >£5000 for both ears. More importantly, I could not
guarantee in advance that they would be significantly
better (and there\'s evidence they wouldn\'t be), and if
I lose or break them I would have to fork out again.

You\'d buy \"replacement insurance\" in much the same way you\'d
insure your cell phone (from being lost/stolen/dropped)! :-/

Finally, the chairs aren\'t designed to make maintenance
easy -- especially for a person who NEEDS such a chair
(and likely can\'t just climb out of it and start working
on it!)

Fortunately my experience is limited to replacing SLAs
and contacts between the battery pack and frame.

Imagine if YOU were the chair\'s user! How easily could
*you* perform those tasks?

frown

Zero chance!

I\'d wager the batteries on her scooter are MUCH easier to
replace than those in my chairs! It takes me most of
a morning to get the existing batteries out and throw
a set of replacements in their place (it\'s an intentionally
tight fit -- up over a lip and then slid into a cavity
that fits the size almost exactly -- and the things are
*heavy*)

EVERYTHING about the chairs is difficult to service.
E.g., to install the headlights, I\'d have had to remove
the main drive wheels (to run the cables). As I was
having none of that, I managed to work AROUND them being
in place -- but only because I was determined to do so!

A \"mobility tech\" would just put the chair up on a lift
and pull the wheels as the manual suggests.

Hell\'s teeth, there are far too many able people that
couldn\'t do it.

Would they remember to put velcro on the bottoms of
the batteries to ensure they don\'t jostle about
when/if accompanying you (but in the hold of an aircraft)?

The way I like to look at it is to realise that the
indigenous people in, say, the Amazon know how to do
everything they need to in order to live. Many people
here can\'t prepare an animal before cooking, or other
everyday things like change a fuse.

Given the number of people whining about not being able to
go to a pub or dine out, I suspect their inabilities are
even more fundamental! :>

Note, however, that folks living alone who are dependant on
mobility aids are really up Schitz Creek when/if those
items fail! Perhaps not even able to make their way into
their own bathroom!

Now, please explain to me which of those is the
\"savage\" and which is \"civilised\"

 

[server]

Maybe support your local store and shop in one that is 50 times smaller than the Walmart

 

[Don Y]

On 7/26/2020 1:23 PM, klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote:

Maybe support your local store and shop in one that is 50 times smaller than the Walmart

Walmart doesn\'t sell electric wheelchairs.

 

[Les Cargill]

Tom Gardner wrote:

On 26/07/20 16:14, Don Y wrote:
snip
Now, please explain to me which of those is the
\"savage\" and which is \"civilised\"

\"Whatever happens we have got
The Maxim Gun, and they have not.\" - Hellaire Beloc.

--
Les Cargill

 

[Michael Terrell]

What local stores? The ones that are still closed, or the ones that will never reopen?

 

[AK]

On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:27:41 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
> Have any of you been to Walmart since they mandated everyone wear a mask? I went on Tuesday. Not only were masks required, but they closed off the entrance at one end of the building. The manager brushed it off as no big deal, but the disabled and elderly were furious. The nearest parking space was past the closed entrance. I had to go to the other end, walk back to the closed entrance to find what I needed was out of stock. Then two more trips the length of the store to return to my vehicle. I was sick from the heat. I had to lean against the outside of the building for about 15 minutes before I could finish the long walk. What are they thinking?

Having folks enter and exit thru the same entrance seems rather stupid.

Since they are more people closer to each other, the risks of infection go up.

Andy

 

[Ricketty C]

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 9:35:10 PM UTC-4, AK wrote:

On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:27:41 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
Have any of you been to Walmart since they mandated everyone wear a mask? I went on Tuesday. Not only were masks required, but they closed off the entrance at one end of the building. The manager brushed it off as no big deal, but the disabled and elderly were furious. The nearest parking space was past the closed entrance. I had to go to the other end, walk back to the closed entrance to find what I needed was out of stock. Then two more trips the length of the store to return to my vehicle. I was sick from the heat. I had to lean against the outside of the building for about 15 minutes before I could finish the long walk. What are they thinking?

Having folks enter and exit thru the same entrance seems rather stupid.

Since they are more people closer to each other, the risks of infection go up.

Not if they are spaced out appropriately. Have then coming and going in a single door and spacing will be hard/impossible to maintain unless the doors are much wider. Even where they have multiple doors like at a Walmart, it is hard to manage traffic once through the door.

Think about the routing. People are not unlike cattle where they run them through snake chutes on the way to slaughter so they don\'t see what is coming.

Are you eyes open?

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Don Y]

On 7/27/2020 6:35 PM, AK wrote:

On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:27:41 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
Not only were masks required, but they closed off the entrance at one end of the building.

Having folks enter and exit thru the same entrance seems rather stupid.

Since they are more people closer to each other, the risks of infection go up.

In the case of Walmart, note that \"entrance\" is a set of double doors
adjacent to ANOTHER set of double doors that are *an* \"exit\".
(there\'s ANOTHER pair of entrance/exit doors at the other end
of the building. and, yet another even farther along in the
\"garden center\". there\'s probably even more down by the auto center)

In some of the other stores (e.g., grocers), it really *is* a (pair of double)
doors. But, you can see the traffic on the other side and pause soas to ensure
you don\'t pass close to each other. A \"monitor\" located by the door acts as
a \"traffic cop\", of sorts -- enforcing occupancy quotas and metering folks in.

As re: proximity... Home Depot has a long \"cage\" structure that folds
back on itself for folks to queue at its entrance. People in one
part of the \"fold\" are only separated by those in the other \"fold\" by
a few feet (and a chain-link fence). Obviously designed to manage an
artificially lengthened queue (6 ft intervals) -- but not maintain
distancing side-to-side.

 

[Tony Stewart]

On Tue. 28 Jul.-20 1:10 a.m., Don Y wrote:

On 7/27/2020 6:35 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:27:41 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
Not only were masks required, but they closed off the entrance at one
end of the building.

Having folks enter and exit thru the same entrance seems rather stupid.

Since they are more people closer to each other, the risks of
infection go up.

In the case of Walmart, note that \"entrance\" is a set of double doors
adjacent to ANOTHER set of double doors that are *an* \"exit\".
(there\'s ANOTHER pair of entrance/exit doors at the other end
of the building.  and, yet another even farther along in the
\"garden center\".  there\'s probably even more down by the auto center)

In some of the other stores (e.g., grocers), it really *is* a (pair of
double)
doors.  But, you can see the traffic on the other side and pause soas to
ensure
you don\'t pass close to each other.  A \"monitor\" located by the door
acts as
a \"traffic cop\", of sorts -- enforcing occupancy quotas and metering
folks in.

As re: proximity...  Home Depot has a long \"cage\" structure that folds
back on itself for folks to queue at its entrance.  People in one
part of the \"fold\" are only separated by those in the other \"fold\" by
a few feet (and a chain-link fence).  Obviously designed to manage an
artificially lengthened queue (6 ft intervals) -- but not maintain
distancing side-to-side.

Air diffuses pretty quickly in the near-field, yet moist air exhalation
remains airborne for followers to breathe so the crosstalk attenuation
of moist air is always going to occur following others that increases
with congestion and air circulation.

Anything helps, but nothing compares to a pressurized filtered air suit
used by virologists.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/28/2020 8:25 AM, Tony Stewart wrote:

On Tue. 28 Jul.-20 1:10 a.m., Don Y wrote:
On 7/27/2020 6:35 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:27:41 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:

As re: proximity... Home Depot has a long \"cage\" structure that folds
back on itself for folks to queue at its entrance. People in one
part of the \"fold\" are only separated by those in the other \"fold\" by
a few feet (and a chain-link fence). Obviously designed to manage an
artificially lengthened queue (6 ft intervals) -- but not maintain
distancing side-to-side.

Air diffuses pretty quickly in the near-field, yet moist air exhalation remains
airborne for followers to breathe so the crosstalk attenuation of moist air is
always going to occur following others that increases with congestion and air
circulation.

But you don\'t know which direction folks will be looking/breathing. If you
were enqueued parallel to the front of a building in a line that was moving
slowly/sporatically, would you be looking forward? Or, off to the side THROUGH
the adjoining \"folded line\" -- and the folks queued there -- towards the store
entrance?

Anything helps, but nothing compares to a pressurized filtered air suit used by
virologists.

I\'m waiting for folks to start having problems with poorly sanitized (reused)
masks.

It\'s hot, here (100+ for the past few months) and recently humid (at 8A it\'s
80F with a DP of 63F). How much of that hot/humid air can pass through a
filter before stuff starts \"growing\" in it?

I wear a mask only when shopping (as I work out of the house). My trips are
brief -- because I HATE shopping! Yet, in a 20-30 minute interval, the mask
feels uncomfortably \"moist\"/wet. Enough so that I wash each after a single
use. This isn\'t much of a chore as I don\'t venture out often...

What do folks who are stuck wearing masks all day long do? E.g., the folks
who work in the stores that I\'m briefly visiting. What about health care
workers??

 

[server]

On Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:25:56 -0400, Tony Stewart
<tony.sunnysky@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue. 28 Jul.-20 1:10 a.m., Don Y wrote:
On 7/27/2020 6:35 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:27:41 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
Not only were masks required, but they closed off the entrance at one
end of the building.

Having folks enter and exit thru the same entrance seems rather stupid.

Since they are more people closer to each other, the risks of
infection go up.

In the case of Walmart, note that \"entrance\" is a set of double doors
adjacent to ANOTHER set of double doors that are *an* \"exit\".
(there\'s ANOTHER pair of entrance/exit doors at the other end
of the building.  and, yet another even farther along in the
\"garden center\".  there\'s probably even more down by the auto center)

In some of the other stores (e.g., grocers), it really *is* a (pair of
double)
doors.  But, you can see the traffic on the other side and pause soas to
ensure
you don\'t pass close to each other.  A \"monitor\" located by the door
acts as
a \"traffic cop\", of sorts -- enforcing occupancy quotas and metering
folks in.

As re: proximity...  Home Depot has a long \"cage\" structure that folds
back on itself for folks to queue at its entrance.  People in one
part of the \"fold\" are only separated by those in the other \"fold\" by
a few feet (and a chain-link fence).  Obviously designed to manage an
artificially lengthened queue (6 ft intervals) -- but not maintain
distancing side-to-side.

Air diffuses pretty quickly in the near-field, yet moist air exhalation
remains airborne for followers to breathe so the crosstalk attenuation
of moist air is always going to occur following others that increases
with congestion and air circulation.

Anything helps, but nothing compares to a pressurized filtered air suit
used by virologists.

A scuba tank is even better.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

Science teaches us to doubt.

Claude Bernard

 

[amdx]

On 7/28/2020 10:49 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 7/28/2020 8:25 AM, Tony Stewart wrote:
On Tue. 28 Jul.-20 1:10 a.m., Don Y wrote:
On 7/27/2020 6:35 PM, AK wrote:
On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 6:27:41 PM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:

As re: proximity...  Home Depot has a long \"cage\" structure that folds
back on itself for folks to queue at its entrance.  People in one
part of the \"fold\" are only separated by those in the other \"fold\" by
a few feet (and a chain-link fence).  Obviously designed to manage an
artificially lengthened queue (6 ft intervals) -- but not maintain
distancing side-to-side.

Air diffuses pretty quickly in the near-field, yet moist air
exhalation remains airborne for followers to breathe so the crosstalk
attenuation of moist air is always going to occur following others
that increases with congestion and air circulation.

But you don\'t know which direction folks will be looking/breathing. 
If you
were enqueued parallel to the front of a building in a line that was
moving
slowly/sporatically, would you be looking forward?  Or, off to the
side THROUGH
the adjoining \"folded line\" -- and the folks queued there -- towards
the store
entrance?

Anything helps, but nothing compares to a pressurized filtered air
suit used by virologists.

I\'m waiting for folks to start having problems with poorly sanitized
(reused)
masks.

It\'s hot, here (100+ for the past few months) and recently humid (at
8A it\'s
80F with a DP of 63F).  How much of that hot/humid air can pass through a
filter before stuff starts \"growing\" in it?

I wear a mask only when shopping (as I work out of the house).  My
trips are
brief -- because I HATE shopping!  Yet, in a 20-30 minute interval,
the mask
feels uncomfortably \"moist\"/wet.  Enough so that I wash each after a
single
use.  This isn\'t much of a chore as I don\'t venture out often...

What do folks who are stuck wearing masks all day long do?  E.g., the
folks
who work in the stores that I\'m briefly visiting.  What about health care
workers??

 Don\'t worry, Tommy has put copper in them!  :-/

                             Mikek


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[bitrex]

On 7/26/2020 4:23 PM, klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote:

Maybe support your local store and shop in one that is 50 times smaller than the Walmart

It does make one sadly chuckle sometimes, seeing Republicans grumble
about the things mega-corporations do.

Wal-mart ruins your order regularly and there\'s nowhere else to go?
Doesn\'t wanna provide enough handicapped parking, or make a store
accessible to everyone?

Credit card company jacks your interest rate for no good reason or
screws you on the fine print, with no recourse?

Twitter hellbans everyone with an opinion that they feel is bad for
business and tells you to shove it if you don\'t like it?

It\'s called _de-regulation_. It\'s what you voted for!

 

[Michael Terrell]

Walmart doesn\'t set the number of handicap parking spaces. That is done by a local government agency. They are told how many to provide, before they can open a new store.

 

[Ricketty C]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 3:05:55 AM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
> Walmart doesn\'t set the number of handicap parking spaces. That is done by a local government agency. They are told how many to provide, before they can open a new store.

Yes, they are given a minimum number set by the local regulations. That doesn\'t prevent them from providing more.

Back when I had to use the handicapped permit I often found they were not only too few, but often not very close to the door in the first place at many locations. One supermarket was toward an end of the shopping center with the handicapped spaces being in the middle, so the walk to the main attraction was not so short greatly increasing the distance traveled.

The local hospital was renovating so parking was disrupted and they totally failed to have adequate handicapped parking locating it near entrances the public could not use. Part of the renovation was a new parking deck which quadrupled the distance to the handicapped parking. They would have a lot of it, but not very amenable.

Bottom line is these requirements are seldom seen as anything more than inconveniences they have to deal with rather than starting points to use as a baseline for accommodating their customers. They see the lowest mandated level of support as the \"gold\" standard.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Doe]

At least as of today... Another way my local Walmart is \"making
shopping easier for us\" is by requiring the use of a debit card in the
automated checkout lanes, no cash used and no cash back.

The attendant said something about the government restricting coinage
during the coronavirus. I said \"What about bills?\" A little research
will uncover the truth.







John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:

Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Have any of you been to Walmart since they mandated everyone wear
a mask? I went on Tuesday. Not only were masks required, but they
closed off the entrance at one end of the building. The manager
brushed it off as no big deal, but the disabled and elderly were
furious. The nearest parking space was past the closed entrance. I
had to go to the other end, walk back to the closed entrance to
find what I needed was out of stock. Then two more trips the
length of the store to return to my vehicle. I was sick from the
heat. I had to lean against the outside of the building for about
15 minutes before I could finish the long walk. What are they
thinking?

When they first started metering people going into and out of the
store, I overheard the enforcer (standing next to the female
manager) boasting about what he would do to a customer if it didn\'t
walk 100 feet around the pylons and tape barrier before entering the
store, even though there were ZERO people in line and therefore
obviously no need for anybody to walk all the way around.

Listen to their canned announcement \"to make shopping easier\".
That\'s a laugh. No idea why they have closed at night, either.
Extremely few people shop at night, it\'s natural social distancing.

Walmart is what happens when a monopoly falls into the hands of
incompetent descendents.