OT: Smartphone always charging destroyed battery?

[John Doe]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone was
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not having a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduce the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce the
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging cable?

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit wherever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone was
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not having a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduce the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce the
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging cable?

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit wherever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the ability to
run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an adjustable power supply
you can use instead, set to that voltage, leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

<https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN>

again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

Sylvia.

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <h8qmt8FgpucU1@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid
says...

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

Sylvia.

Quite. The instructions for my MotoG3 even say as much. Didn't stop the
battery bulging to twice its proper thickness, popping the screen out of
the case. And bending the motherboard so that even with a new battery it
does not fit together reliably...

Mike.

 

[amdx]

On 1/22/2020 6:27 AM, Mike Coon wrote:

In article <h8qmt8FgpucU1@mid.individual.net>, sylvia@email.invalid
says...

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

Sylvia.

Quite. The instructions for my MotoG3 even say as much. Didn't stop the
battery bulging to twice its proper thickness, popping the screen out of
the case. And bending the motherboard so that even with a new battery it
does not fit together reliably...

Mike.

I had a Samsung Tablet that got very little use, it just sat on the
charger. Went to get it one day and the battery had expanded and popped
the case open.

Mikek

 

[John Doe]

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

Mike Coon wrote:
sylvia@email.invalid says...

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when
the battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a
charger all the time shouldn't matter.

Quite. The instructions for my MotoG3 even say as much. Didn't
stop the battery bulging to twice its proper thickness, popping
the screen out of the case. And bending the motherboard so that
even with a new battery it does not fit together reliably...

I had a Samsung Tablet that got very little use, it just sat on
the charger. Went to get it one day and the battery had expanded
and popped the case open.

Apparently some chargers charge to a lower than usual voltage when the
device is meant to be kept on the charger between occasional uses. I'm
pretty sure 4.36 V is not an ideal storage voltage for ordinary
lithium ion. Maybe using a high-capacity lithium-ion battery will
work, depending on the cost. I will look.

There are probably cheap Chinese replacement batteries on eBay...

Serialing two lithium-ion's won't work because that will decrease the
charge voltage to barely over 2 V. That and maybe the internal
resistance x2 will cause a problem. And then there is balancing.

The device already has a power supply input that comes from USB.
Problem is, that circuit expects a battery to be there. Who knows
exactly what it is or how to defeat it. Putting a capacitor on it did
not work.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone was
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not having a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduce the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce the
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging cable?

A simple on/off timer might be the simplest fix to avoid continuous
overcharging.

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit wherever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.


The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that most
mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on charge
continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries that way (they
run faster when on mains power).

The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the ability to
run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an adjustable power supply
you can use instead, set to that voltage, leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN


again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

What might work simply is to put the charger on a weekly or daily timer
so that the battery does get exercised over the 20%-80% range of charge
a couple of times a week. That would probably extend battery life.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 5:36:29 AM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone was
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not having a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduce the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce the
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging cable?

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit wherever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.


The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

I think what you're saying is that with 8 core cpus running at 1ghz+
and correctly charging a battery being very important, it's reasonable
to assume that cell phones have smart, correct charging and battery
monitoring.

If it's just used for wifi monitoring, maybe buying a used phone on
Ebay for $20 is a batter idea. Could probably even buy a locked or
black listed one, it doesn't have to work on the cell network.

The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the ability to
run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an adjustable power supply
you can use instead, set to that voltage, leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN

again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

Sylvia.

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:

On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone was
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not having a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduce the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce the
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging cable?

A simple on/off timer might be the simplest fix to avoid continuous
overcharging.

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit wherever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.


The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that most
mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on charge
continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries that way (they
run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep mine on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine. One computer I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would shorten the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode where I don't have to charge the battery to 100% while using the power cord, they just let you click the button and resume working. Stupid Lenovo.

The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the ability to
run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an adjustable power supply
you can use instead, set to that voltage, leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN


again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

What might work simply is to put the charger on a weekly or daily timer
so that the battery does get exercised over the 20%-80% range of charge
a couple of times a week. That would probably extend battery life.

That should all be built into the phone really. My car manages the battery pretty well. The battery should last at least as long as my previous vehicles did.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Doe]

Smartphone charging maximizes uptime when not connected, by keeping
the battery at the highest temporarily safe voltage level. That's
why the battery voltage is 4.36. That's why there is no UL marking
on the battery.

This poster should've read the replies before spewing nonsense...

--
Whoey Louie <trader4 optonline.net> wrote:

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Subject: Re: OT: Smartphone always charging destroyed battery?
From: Whoey Louie <trader4 optonline.net
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On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 5:36:29 AM UTC-5, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210 N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone was
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not having a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduce the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce the
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging cable?

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit wherever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.


The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

I think what you're saying is that with 8 core cpus running at 1ghz+
and correctly charging a battery being very important, it's reasonable
to assume that cell phones have smart, correct charging and battery
monitoring.

If it's just used for wifi monitoring, maybe buying a used phone on
Ebay for $20 is a batter idea. Could probably even buy a locked or
black listed one, it doesn't have to work on the cell network.








The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the ability to
run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an adjustable power supply
you can use instead, set to that voltage, leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN

again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

Sylvia.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 18.32.01 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone was
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not having a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduce the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce the
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging cable?

A simple on/off timer might be the simplest fix to avoid continuous
overcharging.

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit wherever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.


The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that most
mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on charge
continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries that way (they
run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep mine on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine. One computer I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would shorten the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode where I don't have to charge the battery to 100% while using the power cord, they just let you click the button and resume working. Stupid Lenovo.

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Welcome-FAQs-Knowledge-Base/How-can-I-increase-battery-life-ThinkPad/ta-p/244800

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 12:40:03 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 18.32.01 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone was
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not having a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduce the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce the
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging cable?

A simple on/off timer might be the simplest fix to avoid continuous
overcharging.

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit wherever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.


The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the
battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all the
time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that most
mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on charge
continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries that way (they
run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep mine on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine. One computer I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would shorten the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode where I don't have to charge the battery to 100% while using the power cord, they just let you click the button and resume working. Stupid Lenovo.


https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Welcome-FAQs-Knowledge-Base/How-can-I-increase-battery-life-ThinkPad/ta-p/244800

I only wish that feature applied to my previous Lenovo. It was the worst computer I've ever owned with many, many "issues" and lasted not even as long as my current laptop which is a used model. Yes, in less than two years I had to replace the battery. Even the replacement I bought off ebay didn't fit quite right making it VERY hard to shut the compartment door, so I got a refund and bought another battery from a different vendor, same issue, but I could actually close the door so I kept that one. Either they made something wrong on the laptop, or they released bad specifications for the battery.

Like I said, one of many, many issues with that crappy machine.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Doe]

Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

> https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Welcome-FAQs-Knowledge-Base/How-can-I-increase-battery-life-ThinkPad/ta-p/244800

"For maximum lifespan if you rarely use the battery, set Custom
charge thresholds to start charging at 40% capacity and stop at 50%."

 

[John Doe]

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Martin Brown wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
John Doe wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my
smartphone was bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was
obvious so, not having a torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it
apart. Tried using a capacitor in place of the stock battery
but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's charged to 4.36
V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring,
so it is plugged in all the time.

Question: Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the
battery reduce the constant charge voltage? Is there some way
to very simply reduce the battery voltage peak while it is
always connected to the charging cable?

A simple on/off timer might be the simplest fix to avoid
continuous overcharging.

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit
wherever or whatever it is.

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when
the battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a
charger all the time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me
that most mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if
left on charge continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC
batteries that way (they run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it
down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep
mine on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine.

One positive experience is practically meaningless.

What might work simply is to put the charger on a weekly or daily
timer so that the battery does get exercised over the 20%-80%
range of charge a couple of times a week. That would probably
extend battery life.

That should all be built into the phone really. My car manages
the battery pretty well. The battery should last at least as long
as my previous vehicles did.

The damages done by the persistent high-voltage level. They are
overcharged in order to maximize run time between charges. Generally
speaking... A switch that allows keeping the battery at a lower
charge level for when it's not intended to be portable would be best.

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 12:55:22 PM UTC-5, John Doe wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Martin Brown wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:
John Doe wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my
smartphone was bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was
obvious so, not having a torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it
apart. Tried using a capacitor in place of the stock battery
but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's charged to 4.36
V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring,
so it is plugged in all the time.

Question: Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the
battery reduce the constant charge voltage? Is there some way
to very simply reduce the battery voltage peak while it is
always connected to the charging cable?

A simple on/off timer might be the simplest fix to avoid
continuous overcharging.

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit
wherever or whatever it is.

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when
the battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a
charger all the time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me
that most mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if
left on charge continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC
batteries that way (they run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it
down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep
mine on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine.

One positive experience is practically meaningless.

Not meaningless, representative sampling of a larger data set because if cell phones wore out their batteries prematurely just because they were charged overnight, every night, we would have all heard about it. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

What might work simply is to put the charger on a weekly or daily
timer so that the battery does get exercised over the 20%-80%
range of charge a couple of times a week. That would probably
extend battery life.

That should all be built into the phone really. My car manages
the battery pretty well. The battery should last at least as long
as my previous vehicles did.

The damages done by the persistent high-voltage level. They are
overcharged in order to maximize run time between charges. Generally
speaking... A switch that allows keeping the battery at a lower
charge level for when it's not intended to be portable would be best.

Not overcharged, they are fully charged. If your phone is overcharging the battery it is defective.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Martin Brown]

On 22/01/2020 17:31, Rick C wrote:

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my
smartphone was bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was
obvious so, not having a torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it
apart. Tried using a capacitor in place of the stock battery
but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's charged to 4.36
V.
[snip]

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when
the battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger
all the time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that
most mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on
charge continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries
that way (they run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it
down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep mine
on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine. One computer

Things have improved over the years, but yes I am pretty sure that if I
had cycled the battery a bit more often instead of running it flat out
on mains power most of the time the battery would have lasted longer.

I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would shorten
the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode where I don't
have to charge the battery to 100% while using the power cord, they
just let you click the button and resume working. Stupid Lenovo.

Not just Lenovo but Toshiba and Compaq/HP kit had issues. They are
optimised to have maximum runtime when not connected to mains which
means keeping the battery uncomfortably close to its maximum capacity
when it does have a mains connection.

The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the
ability to run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an
adjustable power supply you can use instead, set to that voltage,
leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN




again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

What might work simply is to put the charger on a weekly or daily
timer so that the battery does get exercised over the 20%-80% range
of charge a couple of times a week. That would probably extend
battery life.

That should all be built into the phone really. My car manages the
battery pretty well. The battery should last at least as long as my
previous vehicles did.

I don't know about your phone but mine whenever it is on charge goes
right up to 100% and stays there whilst on charge. Only when you
disconnect it does the graph come off the end stop. Again optimised to
have the maximum longevity in use without mains power but the price for
that is gently destroying the battery by trickle charging when full.

I know that for electric car batteries the fast charge backs off at
about 80% full charge to avoid damaging them. I do wonder how they
manage to absorb 50kW without getting mad hot in the process.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 20.56.41 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 2:43:36 PM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/01/2020 17:31, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my
smartphone was bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was
obvious so, not having a torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it
apart. Tried using a capacitor in place of the stock battery
but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's charged to 4.36
V.
[snip]

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when
the battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger
all the time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that
most mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on
charge continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries
that way (they run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it
down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep mine
on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine. One computer

Things have improved over the years, but yes I am pretty sure that if I
had cycled the battery a bit more often instead of running it flat out
on mains power most of the time the battery would have lasted longer.

I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would shorten
the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode where I don't
have to charge the battery to 100% while using the power cord, they
just let you click the button and resume working. Stupid Lenovo.

Not just Lenovo but Toshiba and Compaq/HP kit had issues. They are
optimised to have maximum runtime when not connected to mains which
means keeping the battery uncomfortably close to its maximum capacity
when it does have a mains connection.

The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the
ability to run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an
adjustable power supply you can use instead, set to that voltage,
leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN




again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

What might work simply is to put the charger on a weekly or daily
timer so that the battery does get exercised over the 20%-80% range
of charge a couple of times a week. That would probably extend
battery life.

That should all be built into the phone really. My car manages the
battery pretty well. The battery should last at least as long as my
previous vehicles did.

I don't know about your phone but mine whenever it is on charge goes
right up to 100% and stays there whilst on charge. Only when you
disconnect it does the graph come off the end stop. Again optimised to
have the maximum longevity in use without mains power but the price for
that is gently destroying the battery by trickle charging when full.

Coming off full and still charging are not the same thing. My phone tells you when it is charging and when it stops. It charges for a while and when full stops charging. Like the laptop when it discharges some it will start charging again.


I know that for electric car batteries the fast charge backs off at
about 80% full charge to avoid damaging them. I do wonder how they
manage to absorb 50kW without getting mad hot in the process.

It is much more detailed than that. It charges slow at the low end, ramping up to peak values somewhere around 25%. Then it gradually ramps back down to near nothing at 100%. The Tesla 144 kW Superchargers limit the charge rate between 20% and 50%. They now have 250 kW chargers that will let model 3 batteries charge at their full rate throughout the curve. The charging rate is also mitigated by temperature, heat or cold. I believe the optimal charging temperature for the Tesla batteries is something like 85°F. Tesla has put a ton of effort (or maybe a tone) into optimizing all aspects of their batteries and they put longevity at the top of the list.

I don't expect a phone to use as much nuance in charging. The standard curve is to initially charge at a constant current, then on reaching a terminal voltage it charges at constant voltage letting the current drop. On reaching a sufficiently low current the charging should stop. That's good enough to provide a reasonable life span to a $15-$30 cell phone battery.

when people buy a $1000 phone with a non-removable battery I'm sure they expect that battery to at least a few years of daily charging, and the phone has plenty of horsepower to do the most advanced charging they can up with

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 2:43:36 PM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:

On 22/01/2020 17:31, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my
smartphone was bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was
obvious so, not having a torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it
apart. Tried using a capacitor in place of the stock battery
but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's charged to 4.36
V.
[snip]

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when
the battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger
all the time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that
most mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on
charge continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries
that way (they run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it
down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep mine
on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine. One computer

Things have improved over the years, but yes I am pretty sure that if I
had cycled the battery a bit more often instead of running it flat out
on mains power most of the time the battery would have lasted longer.

I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would shorten
the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode where I don't
have to charge the battery to 100% while using the power cord, they
just let you click the button and resume working. Stupid Lenovo.

Not just Lenovo but Toshiba and Compaq/HP kit had issues. They are
optimised to have maximum runtime when not connected to mains which
means keeping the battery uncomfortably close to its maximum capacity
when it does have a mains connection.

The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the
ability to run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an
adjustable power supply you can use instead, set to that voltage,
leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN




again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

What might work simply is to put the charger on a weekly or daily
timer so that the battery does get exercised over the 20%-80% range
of charge a couple of times a week. That would probably extend
battery life.

That should all be built into the phone really. My car manages the
battery pretty well. The battery should last at least as long as my
previous vehicles did.

I don't know about your phone but mine whenever it is on charge goes
right up to 100% and stays there whilst on charge. Only when you
disconnect it does the graph come off the end stop. Again optimised to
have the maximum longevity in use without mains power but the price for
that is gently destroying the battery by trickle charging when full.

Coming off full and still charging are not the same thing. My phone tells you when it is charging and when it stops. It charges for a while and when full stops charging. Like the laptop when it discharges some it will start charging again.

I know that for electric car batteries the fast charge backs off at
about 80% full charge to avoid damaging them. I do wonder how they
manage to absorb 50kW without getting mad hot in the process.

It is much more detailed than that. It charges slow at the low end, ramping up to peak values somewhere around 25%. Then it gradually ramps back down to near nothing at 100%. The Tesla 144 kW Superchargers limit the charge rate between 20% and 50%. They now have 250 kW chargers that will let model 3 batteries charge at their full rate throughout the curve. The charging rate is also mitigated by temperature, heat or cold. I believe the optimal charging temperature for the Tesla batteries is something like 85°F.. Tesla has put a ton of effort (or maybe a tone) into optimizing all aspects of their batteries and they put longevity at the top of the list.

I don't expect a phone to use as much nuance in charging. The standard curve is to initially charge at a constant current, then on reaching a terminal voltage it charges at constant voltage letting the current drop. On reaching a sufficiently low current the charging should stop. That's good enough to provide a reasonable life span to a $15-$30 cell phone battery.

--

Rick C.

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 3:33:29 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 20.56.41 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 2:43:36 PM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/01/2020 17:31, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my
smartphone was bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was
obvious so, not having a torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it
apart. Tried using a capacitor in place of the stock battery
but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it's charged to 4.36
V.
[snip]

The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when
the battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger
all the time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that
most mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on
charge continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries
that way (they run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it
down every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep mine
on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine. One computer

Things have improved over the years, but yes I am pretty sure that if I
had cycled the battery a bit more often instead of running it flat out
on mains power most of the time the battery would have lasted longer.

I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would shorten
the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode where I don't
have to charge the battery to 100% while using the power cord, they
just let you click the button and resume working. Stupid Lenovo.

Not just Lenovo but Toshiba and Compaq/HP kit had issues. They are
optimised to have maximum runtime when not connected to mains which
means keeping the battery uncomfortably close to its maximum capacity
when it does have a mains connection.

The battery says its output is 3.8V. If you don't need the
ability to run during a blackout, perhaps you can find an
adjustable power supply you can use instead, set to that voltage,
leaving the battery out entirely.

Of perhaps use somthing like this without the battery

https://www.banggood.com/XL4015-5A-DC-DC-Step-Down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module-p-945599.html?rmmds=detail-left-hotproducts__3&cur_warehouse=CN




again, set to give 3.8V, and run off a cheap 12V wallwart (plugpack).

What might work simply is to put the charger on a weekly or daily
timer so that the battery does get exercised over the 20%-80% range
of charge a couple of times a week. That would probably extend
battery life.

That should all be built into the phone really. My car manages the
battery pretty well. The battery should last at least as long as my
previous vehicles did.

I don't know about your phone but mine whenever it is on charge goes
right up to 100% and stays there whilst on charge. Only when you
disconnect it does the graph come off the end stop. Again optimised to
have the maximum longevity in use without mains power but the price for
that is gently destroying the battery by trickle charging when full.

Coming off full and still charging are not the same thing. My phone tells you when it is charging and when it stops. It charges for a while and when full stops charging. Like the laptop when it discharges some it will start charging again.


I know that for electric car batteries the fast charge backs off at
about 80% full charge to avoid damaging them. I do wonder how they
manage to absorb 50kW without getting mad hot in the process.

It is much more detailed than that. It charges slow at the low end, ramping up to peak values somewhere around 25%. Then it gradually ramps back down to near nothing at 100%. The Tesla 144 kW Superchargers limit the charge rate between 20% and 50%. They now have 250 kW chargers that will let model 3 batteries charge at their full rate throughout the curve. The charging rate is also mitigated by temperature, heat or cold. I believe the optimal charging temperature for the Tesla batteries is something like 85°F. Tesla has put a ton of effort (or maybe a tone) into optimizing all aspects of their batteries and they put longevity at the top of the list.

I don't expect a phone to use as much nuance in charging. The standard curve is to initially charge at a constant current, then on reaching a terminal voltage it charges at constant voltage letting the current drop. On reaching a sufficiently low current the charging should stop. That's good enough to provide a reasonable life span to a $15-$30 cell phone battery.


when people buy a $1000 phone with a non-removable battery I'm sure they expect that battery to at least a few years of daily charging, and the phone has plenty of horsepower to do the most advanced charging they can up with

Really? The people who buy $1000 cell phones don't keep them long enough to wear out the battery. They get another $1000 cell phone. Spending $1000 on a cell phone makes it such a luxury that no one who is looking for "value" is going to buy it and no one who would buy it cares if it craps out in less than two years.

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:r0a8l0$1gt$1@gioia.aioe.org:

I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would
shorten the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode
where I don't have to charge the battery to 100% while using the
power cord, they just let you click the button and resume
working. Stupid Lenovo.

Not just Lenovo but Toshiba and Compaq/HP kit had issues. They are
optimised to have maximum runtime when not connected to mains
which means keeping the battery uncomfortably close to its maximum
capacity when it does have a mains connection.

I set ALL of my 4 Lenovo laptops, notebooks, etc. to stop charging
at 93%. When on the AC line, I rarely ever see it in charge mode.
It runs off the cord AND leaves the battery alone. My Lenovo P71
works just fine, and it is a full bore Xeon pushing an Nvidia Quadro
feeding a 4K display.

 

[John Doe]

We are truly sorry for your poor experience with a Lenovo laptop. It
will be filed in our complaint department and we will get back to you
soon as possible.

--
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit gmail.com> wrote:

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On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 12:40:03 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 22. januar 2020 kl. 18.32.01 UTC+1 skrev Rick C:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 9:10:52 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/01/2020 10:36, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 22/01/2020 4:48 pm, John Doe wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210 N04/

Another Chinese battery bit the dust here. Noticed my smartphone w
as
bulging, the screen was warping. The cause was obvious so, not hav
ing a
torx t1 screwdriver, I ripped it apart. Tried using a capacitor in
place
of the stock battery but that didn't work. An 18650 works, but it'
s
charged to 4.36 V.

The smartphone is used for Wi-Fi security camera monitoring, so it
is
plugged in all the time.

Question:
Would putting a resistor or diode in series with the battery reduc
e the
constant charge voltage? Is there some way to very simply reduce t
he
battery voltage peak while it is always connected to the charging
cable?

A simple on/off timer might be the simplest fix to avoid continuous

overcharging.

I won't attempt messing with the smartphone's charging circuit whe
rever
or whatever it is.

Thanks.


The charging circuit should completely turn off charging when the

battery is fully charged, so having it plugged into a charger all t
he
time shouldn't matter.

In an ideal world that might be true, but experience tells me that mo
st
mobile devices do rebel and wreck their batteries if left on charge

continuously. I used to kill all my portable PC batteries that way (t
hey
run faster when on mains power).

Do you really think it would have lasted longer if you had run it down
every day or even twice a day and charged back up? I keep mine on the power cord constantly and they seem to do fine. One computer I had did warn you that constantly using the power cord would shorten the life of the battery, but rather than provide a mode where I don't have to charge the battery to 100% while using the power cord, they just let you click the button and resume working. Stupid Lenovo.


https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Welcome-FAQs-Knowledge-Base/How-can-I-increa
se-battery-life-ThinkPad/ta-p/244800

I only wish that feature applied to my previous Lenovo. It was the worst computer I've ever owned with many, many "issues" and lasted not even as long as my current laptop which is a used model. Yes, in less than two years I had to replace the battery. Even the replacement I bought off ebay didn't fit quite right making it VERY hard to shut the compartment door, so I got a refund and bought another battery from a different vendor, same issue, but I could actually close the door so I kept that one. Either they made something wrong on the laptop, or they released bad specifications for the battery.

Like I said, one of many, many issues with that crappy machine.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209