OT: Sewing machine repair question where

[pfjw@aol.com]

All of the following done OUTDOORS:

1 cup of lye in 3 gallons of *cold* water will remove any kind of paint, grease, or applied coating from any otherwise inert metal or plastic. Even from the smallest nooks and crannies if left overnight. Do not do this, or choose the option below unless you have a safe method of disposal of the effluent. Much vintage paint and coatings, especially bright colors contained lead, chromium, cadmium and other pigments that are no fun in any concentration.

Glacial Ammonia - available as a diazo-print developer back in the day - will do the same.

Kerosene and other light hydrocarbons should also be used outdoors if used as solvents. Similarly, gasoline, Naptha, Coleman fuel and others of that nature. And certainly not indoors or near sources of ignition - even electric fans.

Acetone should be used in very small quantities as the vapor is heavier than air and quite volatile (explosive). Outdoors if in any sort of quantity.

Similarly, methanol (wood alcohol). Very explosive if the vapors are concentrated.

I keep a number of 1-ounce glass eyedropper bottles for various solvents and such, including my 20:1 naptha-oleic acid mix. And even then, I tend to be quite careful with them.

I am also a great believer in new-technology lubricants. Synthetics, engineered long-chain polymers and PTFE additives have made the options very nearly infinitely better than even 30 years ago. Nor are vast quantities needed for most of us. Running four clocks and any number of other clockwork/mechanical devices (and guns) and I am still on my first pints with most left over. So, at that level, cost is really not a factor.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

On Wednesday, 19 July 2017 21:33:40 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:

All of the following done OUTDOORS:

1 cup of lye in 3 gallons of *cold* water will remove any kind of paint, grease, or applied coating from any otherwise inert metal or plastic. Even from the smallest nooks and crannies if left overnight. Do not do this, or choose the option below unless you have a safe method of disposal of the effluent. Much vintage paint and coatings, especially bright colors contained lead, chromium, cadmium and other pigments that are no fun in any concentration.

Glacial Ammonia - available as a diazo-print developer back in the day - will do the same.

Kerosene and other light hydrocarbons should also be used outdoors if used as solvents. Similarly, gasoline, Naptha, Coleman fuel and others of that nature. And certainly not indoors or near sources of ignition - even electric fans.

Acetone should be used in very small quantities as the vapor is heavier than air and quite volatile (explosive). Outdoors if in any sort of quantity..

Similarly, methanol (wood alcohol). Very explosive if the vapors are concentrated.

I keep a number of 1-ounce glass eyedropper bottles for various solvents and such, including my 20:1 naptha-oleic acid mix. And even then, I tend to be quite careful with them.

I am also a great believer in new-technology lubricants. Synthetics, engineered long-chain polymers and PTFE additives have made the options very nearly infinitely better than even 30 years ago. Nor are vast quantities needed for most of us. Running four clocks and any number of other clockwork/mechanical devices (and guns) and I am still on my first pints with most left over. So, at that level, cost is really not a factor.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Some of those solvents are certainly toxic and explosive, but kerosene? I'm perfectly happy to use that indoors.


NT

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Thursday, July 20, 2017 at 9:53:11 AM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

> Some of those solvents are certainly toxic and explosive, but kerosene? I'm perfectly happy to use that indoors.

Kerosene has two not-so-nice properties that few understand:

a) When exposed in quantity - on a rag, or in a bowl - although it has relatively low volatility, it does not have ZERO volatility. And that volatility is highly dependent on temperature. Further, kerosene is not uniformly one fraction, but several. What happens is that if any surfaces near to the work area are cooler than the rest of the room, a thin film of the heavier fractions will build up.

b) And, that film will polymerize over time (faster with exposure to UV or ozone) into a varnish-like coating that will be very nearly impossible to remove without heroic efforts.

Acetone, Naptha, Methanol and other alcohols and similar volatile solvents consist of fractions that do not have a transition temperature anywhere near normal room temperature.

Better living through chemistry!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

On Wednesday, 19 July 2017 07:21:53 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:48:05 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 17:35:26 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

This should be useful:
https://www.occaphot-ch.com/bernina-oldie-modelle/bernina-modelle-kl-125-121-1950er/

interesting, but that's all

You're hard to please.

the lack of thread tension puzzled me. It works just fine with
one washer removed, so it's a low priority issue.

It may have been disassembled and then put back together incorrectly.
Yes... question is which solvent. White spirit? Paraffin/kerosene?
I've got those. Also have ammonia & bleach if they'd attack the
crud without causing damage.

Oh, that's easy. Anything that will dissolve the original sewing
machine oil. Even if it's dried out or turned to goo, it's still the
same oil, which can be dissolved by anything from paint thinner to
kerosene. I wouldn't go any higher up the chlorinated hydrocarbon
tree because those tend to dull or eat plastic parts. I tend to favor
kerosene (lamp oil) for loosening up machine parts. If I'm lazy, I
just dump some more sewing machine oil on the part, which will
dissolve the gum, but not the stuff that has hardened. As little
scraping with a piece of wood or plastic (not metal) will expedite
things.

What's the story behind using ammonia and bleach? I've never heard of
that concoction.

The reason I want a photo is because I've seen a few Frankenstein
monsters assembled from parts from different machines. I've also
spent an inordinate amount of time digging out information on what
turned out to be the wrong model number. Trust, but verify.

History is unknown, I got them at a clearance for peanuts. The
lubrication disaster tells me they've either not been used in a
long time, or had no care taken of them at all.

Thanks for the details. Some of mine were left outside in the rain.
Rust everywhere. I think you have the right approach. Clean, lube,
adjust, and try again.

Right the 121 now works perfectly. I reassembled the upper thread tensioner leaving out the tension release disc as I couldn't get it to work with it. I can only presume it was wrongly assembled or some part out of spec, and likely a bit not present that should be.


That leaves the [far better] 530-2, a 1960s all-mechanical machine with camwheel operated stitch patterns. Good progress - it now sews & keeps going at a good speed. Some jammed bits are unstuck, but some remain jammed.
https://ibb.co/kw9AS5
https://ibb.co/diHx75
https://ibb.co/gFh8Ek
https://ibb.co/kV6DfQ
https://ibb.co/eqi4n5
https://ibb.co/cvWDfQ
Still jammed are:

- the needle position knob. The mechanism has a sprung detent thing, and it is jammed absolutely rock solid. Soaking in oil, baking in oven & plenty of force has had no effect.

- the stitch length knob moves but still very stiffly.

- the biggest problem is the stitch pattern selector. Again it's rock solid jammed. Photos and video don't show the mechanism at all, it's buried under other bits and one has to bob about to spot bits of it and work out what it is. I hope to add paraffin/kerosene tonight and cross fingers.


NT

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Thursday, July 20, 2017 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

Much snippage.

Still jammed:

Do you have access to Kroil? I used it recently (and successfully) to loosen a muffler-bearing (OK, an exhaust manifold bolt) on my wife's very vintage Volvo recently. It might be effective in your situation where the other stuff has no effect.

http://www.kanolabs.com/google/?gclid=CjwKCAjwqcHLBRAqEiwA-j4AyMZzSaKDxpEn_pSE2fN7OvcTUxZ_OCv1nMZr-YJ0O0YORY9t1JmSIhoCtIAQAvD_BwE

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:46:40 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

Right the 121 now works perfectly. I reassembled the upper
thread tensioner leaving out the tension release disc as
I couldn't get it to work with it. I can only presume it
was wrongly assembled or some part out of spec, and likely
a bit not present that should be.

Congrats. It's hard to argue with success, but save the extra washer
somewhere just in case you discover that it's needed. I'm still
looking for a 121 exploded view, which might have a detail of the
upper tension thing.

530-2, a 1960s all-mechanical
machine with camwheel operated stitch patterns. Good progress
- it now sews & keeps going at a good speed. Some jammed
bits are unstuck, but some remain jammed.
https://ibb.co/kw9AS5
https://ibb.co/diHx75
https://ibb.co/gFh8Ek
https://ibb.co/kV6DfQ
https://ibb.co/eqi4n5
https://ibb.co/cvWDfQ

Thanks for the photos. Looks fairly clean, but it's hard to tell from
photos. This might help with the cleaning ceremony:
<http://tumorfarmer.blogspot.com/2015/09/bernina-530-2-sewing-machine.html>
The author used alcohol and kerosene (separately). Also see the
reader comments from Becky which have more detail on the cleaning.

One change I would recommend is to NOT use cotton Q-tips in areas
where there's a risk of stuffing some cotton into a bushing or
bearing. It's very difficult to remove the cotton later. I have some
really sharp and fine pointed stainless tweezers that work fairly
well, but it's best to avoid that problem. Use the foam (lint free)
type of Q-tips instead.

Incidentally, the yellow colored crud in the photos is not dried oil.
It's a mix of rust, dried oil, and water. I didn't see any in your
photos, so at least you don't have a rust problem.

Still jammed are:
- the needle position knob. The mechanism has a sprung detent
thing, and it is jammed absolutely rock solid. Soaking in oil,
baking in oven & plenty of force has had no effect.

I'm fairly sure the thread is NOT left handed but it wouldn't hurt to
check (somehow). There's probably a spring behind the detent, which
is glued in place by gum. I'm not familiar with the mechanism, so I
can't suggest where to apply brute force. Try penetrating oil.

>- the stitch length knob moves but still very stiffly.

I'm not sure, but the arm usually has a roller or bearing at the end.
Make sure that the bearing is actually turning, and not sliding.

- the biggest problem is the stitch pattern selector. Again it's
rock solid jammed. Photos and video don't show the mechanism at
all, it's buried under other bits and one has to bob about to
spot bits of it and work out what it is. I hope to add
paraffin/kerosene tonight and cross fingers.

No clue there. Again, look for a roller, bearing, or follower that is
NOT turning. See if paraffin, kerosene, paint thinner, Kroil,
naphtha, or whatever helps. If it does, add more of the same.

Not much in the way of specific help, but better than nothing.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Thursday, 20 July 2017 23:22:48 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:46:40 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

Right the 121 now works perfectly. I reassembled the upper
thread tensioner leaving out the tension release disc as
I couldn't get it to work with it. I can only presume it
was wrongly assembled or some part out of spec, and likely
a bit not present that should be.

Congrats. It's hard to argue with success, but save the extra washer
somewhere just in case you discover that it's needed. I'm still
looking for a 121 exploded view, which might have a detail of the
upper tension thing.

of course I'll keep the washer. It had 2 purposes, neither of which is needed to function fine. I don't know whether you're familiar with Berninas, they're the rolls royce of sewing machines, though the 121 being straight stitch is not of value. Before it was fixed I half wondered about selling it as parts for 125, the more able version.

The one bit of bad news re the 121 is that its mains lead is going to be needed for the 530-2, leaving it without one. A slight inconvenience perhaps for the end user. It does look a bit like IEC 9/10/11/12 mains lead connectors, but I doubt one would fit.

530-2, a 1960s all-mechanical
machine with camwheel operated stitch patterns. Good progress
- it now sews & keeps going at a good speed. Some jammed
bits are unstuck, but some remain jammed.
https://ibb.co/kw9AS5
https://ibb.co/diHx75
https://ibb.co/gFh8Ek
https://ibb.co/kV6DfQ
https://ibb.co/eqi4n5
https://ibb.co/cvWDfQ

Thanks for the photos. Looks fairly clean, but it's hard to tell from
photos. This might help with the cleaning ceremony:
http://tumorfarmer.blogspot.com/2015/09/bernina-530-2-sewing-machine.html
The author used alcohol and kerosene (separately). Also see the
reader comments from Becky which have more detail on the cleaning.

One change I would recommend is to NOT use cotton Q-tips in areas
where there's a risk of stuffing some cotton into a bushing or
bearing. It's very difficult to remove the cotton later. I have some
really sharp and fine pointed stainless tweezers that work fairly
well, but it's best to avoid that problem. Use the foam (lint free)
type of Q-tips instead.

I plan to use plastic tube from q-tips to drip kero in. If still stuck I'll try alcohol too.

Incidentally, the yellow colored crud in the photos is not dried oil.
It's a mix of rust, dried oil, and water. I didn't see any in your
photos, so at least you don't have a rust problem.

there is yellow/brown crud, no rust anywhere that I can see. I got bitten by that years ago, fixed a machine only to discover it wouldn't sew reliably because there was corrosion on the shuttle holder, so the thread sometimes caught on it.

Still jammed are:
- the needle position knob. The mechanism has a sprung detent
thing, and it is jammed absolutely rock solid. Soaking in oil,
baking in oven & plenty of force has had no effect.

I'm fairly sure the thread is NOT left handed but it wouldn't hurt to
check (somehow). There's probably a spring behind the detent, which
is glued in place by gum. I'm not familiar with the mechanism, so I
can't suggest where to apply brute force. Try penetrating oil.

I don't know which thread you mean. The pressy-round-thing will get a solvent soaking, and if necessary more baking.

- the stitch length knob moves but still very stiffly.

I'm not sure, but the arm usually has a roller or bearing at the end.
Make sure that the bearing is actually turning, and not sliding.

I'll look, though ISTR that being fairly inaccessible.

- the biggest problem is the stitch pattern selector. Again it's
rock solid jammed. Photos and video don't show the mechanism at
all, it's buried under other bits and one has to bob about to
spot bits of it and work out what it is. I hope to add
paraffin/kerosene tonight and cross fingers.

No clue there. Again, look for a roller, bearing, or follower that is
NOT turning. See if paraffin, kerosene, paint thinner, Kroil,
naphtha, or whatever helps. If it does, add more of the same.

Not much in the way of specific help, but better than nothing.

I think the part that's jammed consists of:
rod in bearing into case
then universal joint at other end
so will just soak it in solvents & bake & see what happens. Access is a mare but should be able to drip onto it, probably with a fair bit missing the thing, but kero & alcohol are harmless enough.

thank you
NT

 

On Thursday, 20 July 2017 21:25:04 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:

On Thursday, July 20, 2017 at 3:46:45 PM UTC-4, tabby wrote:

Much snippage.


Still jammed:


Do you have access to Kroil? I used it recently (and successfully) to loosen a muffler-bearing (OK, an exhaust manifold bolt) on my wife's very vintage Volvo recently. It might be effective in your situation where the other stuff has no effect.

http://www.kanolabs.com/google/?gclid=CjwKCAjwqcHLBRAqEiwA-j4AyMZzSaKDxpEn_pSE2fN7OvcTUxZ_OCv1nMZr-YJ0O0YORY9t1JmSIhoCtIAQAvD_BwE

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

No, I checked, I'll try other solvents first, and think again if necessary.


NT

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <ad46e2bf-b20d-42bd-acb0-2590f5cfa235@googlegroups.com>,
tabbypurr@gmail.com says...

I don't know which thread you mean. The pressy-round-thing will get a
solvent soaking, and if necessary more baking.

"Thread" does have a nice ambiguity in the context of sewing machines!

Mike.

 

On Friday, 21 July 2017 01:26:30 UTC+1, tabby7 wrote:

On Thursday, 20 July 2017 23:22:48 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:46:40 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

Right the 121 now works perfectly. I reassembled the upper
thread tensioner leaving out the tension release disc as
I couldn't get it to work with it. I can only presume it
was wrongly assembled or some part out of spec, and likely
a bit not present that should be.

Congrats. It's hard to argue with success, but save the extra washer
somewhere just in case you discover that it's needed. I'm still
looking for a 121 exploded view, which might have a detail of the
upper tension thing.

of course I'll keep the washer. It had 2 purposes, neither of which is needed to function fine. I don't know whether you're familiar with Berninas, they're the rolls royce of sewing machines, though the 121 being straight stitch is not of value. Before it was fixed I half wondered about selling it as parts for 125, the more able version.

The one bit of bad news re the 121 is that its mains lead is going to be needed for the 530-2, leaving it without one. A slight inconvenience perhaps for the end user. It does look a bit like IEC 9/10/11/12 mains lead connectors, but I doubt one would fit.


That leaves the [far better] 530-2, a 1960s all-mechanical
machine with camwheel operated stitch patterns. Good progress
- it now sews & keeps going at a good speed. Some jammed
bits are unstuck, but some remain jammed.
https://ibb.co/kw9AS5
https://ibb.co/diHx75
https://ibb.co/gFh8Ek
https://ibb.co/kV6DfQ
https://ibb.co/eqi4n5
https://ibb.co/cvWDfQ

Thanks for the photos. Looks fairly clean, but it's hard to tell from
photos. This might help with the cleaning ceremony:
http://tumorfarmer.blogspot.com/2015/09/bernina-530-2-sewing-machine.html
The author used alcohol and kerosene (separately). Also see the
reader comments from Becky which have more detail on the cleaning.

One change I would recommend is to NOT use cotton Q-tips in areas
where there's a risk of stuffing some cotton into a bushing or
bearing. It's very difficult to remove the cotton later. I have some
really sharp and fine pointed stainless tweezers that work fairly
well, but it's best to avoid that problem. Use the foam (lint free)
type of Q-tips instead.

I plan to use plastic tube from q-tips to drip kero in. If still stuck I'll try alcohol too.

Incidentally, the yellow colored crud in the photos is not dried oil.
It's a mix of rust, dried oil, and water. I didn't see any in your
photos, so at least you don't have a rust problem.

there is yellow/brown crud, no rust anywhere that I can see. I got bitten by that years ago, fixed a machine only to discover it wouldn't sew reliably because there was corrosion on the shuttle holder, so the thread sometimes caught on it.


Still jammed are:
- the needle position knob. The mechanism has a sprung detent
thing, and it is jammed absolutely rock solid. Soaking in oil,
baking in oven & plenty of force has had no effect.

I'm fairly sure the thread is NOT left handed but it wouldn't hurt to
check (somehow). There's probably a spring behind the detent, which
is glued in place by gum. I'm not familiar with the mechanism, so I
can't suggest where to apply brute force. Try penetrating oil.

I don't know which thread you mean. The pressy-round-thing will get a solvent soaking, and if necessary more baking.

- the stitch length knob moves but still very stiffly.

I'm not sure, but the arm usually has a roller or bearing at the end.
Make sure that the bearing is actually turning, and not sliding.

I'll look, though ISTR that being fairly inaccessible.

- the biggest problem is the stitch pattern selector. Again it's
rock solid jammed. Photos and video don't show the mechanism at
all, it's buried under other bits and one has to bob about to
spot bits of it and work out what it is. I hope to add
paraffin/kerosene tonight and cross fingers.

No clue there. Again, look for a roller, bearing, or follower that is
NOT turning. See if paraffin, kerosene, paint thinner, Kroil,
naphtha, or whatever helps. If it does, add more of the same.

Not much in the way of specific help, but better than nothing.

I think the part that's jammed consists of:
rod in bearing into case
then universal joint at other end
so will just soak it in solvents & bake & see what happens. Access is a mare but should be able to drip onto it, probably with a fair bit missing the thing, but kero & alcohol are harmless enough.

thank you
NT

Well, the 530-2 is no better despite soak time with paraffin. The 1960s instruction manual recommends petrol for this situation.


NT

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <05717ef7-b17a-41c4-af45-7b0d871dc138@googlegroups.com>,
tabbypurr@gmail.com says...

Well, the 530-2 is no better despite soak time with paraffin. The
1960s instruction manual recommends petrol for this situation.

And full immolation?

Mike.

 

On Tuesday, 25 July 2017 23:33:38 UTC+1, Mike Coon wrote:

In article <05717ef7-b17a-41c4-af45-7b0d871dc138@googlegroups.com>,
tabbypurr says...

Well, the 530-2 is no better despite soak time with paraffin. The
1960s instruction manual recommends petrol for this situation.

And full immolation?

Mike.

lol. It doesn't mention any possible risk so yay let's go for it.


NT

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Whyizzzit that one feels limited to using 1960s methods on 1960s machines?

It is 2017. We have means and methods that were not even dreams back in the day. Use them!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 14:20:44 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

Well, the 530-2 is no better despite soak time with paraffin.
The 1960s instruction manual recommends petrol for this situation.
NT

I'm not sure which of the noxious, explosive, corrosive, and cancerous
additives found in modern gasoline is considered most hazardous, but I
suggest you find something a little less dangerous. Please remember
that you have only one life to give for this repair project.

Have you tried penetrating oil (Kroil) to break things loose? My
guess(tm) is you're dealing with well hidden rust.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 12:11:48 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Have you tried penetrating oil (Kroil) to break things loose? My
guess(tm) is you're dealing with well hidden rust.

Yeah. Kroil. P-L-E-A-S-E.

Gasoline, diesel, kerosene - all of which are very nasty - are not good options for anything other than internal combustion engines, turbines and lamps. The latter in small quantities, and generally for emergency purposes.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

On Wednesday, 26 July 2017 17:11:48 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 14:20:44 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

Well, the 530-2 is no better despite soak time with paraffin.
The 1960s instruction manual recommends petrol for this situation.
NT

I'm not sure which of the noxious, explosive, corrosive, and cancerous
additives found in modern gasoline is considered most hazardous, but I
suggest you find something a little less dangerous. Please remember
that you have only one life to give for this repair project.

If I knew where I had some in the shed I'd use it, but certainly not in the house.

Have you tried penetrating oil (Kroil) to break things loose? My
guess(tm) is you're dealing with well hidden rust.

Kroil doesn't seem to be sold here. Other penetrating oils are of course, though I've often used kero for this. WD40 aka white spirit is popular here.
I've no clue where my plusgas cans are, not seen them in a long time. So yes I probably need to buy some. I normally try what I've got first.

Right now I'm in downtime, and it may take a while to heal up, so the Berninas will probably have to wait.


NT